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Author Topic: Toll road protest  in Virginia for bikes  (Read 3615 times)

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Twolanerider

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Re: Toll road protest  in Virginia for bikes
« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2006, 11:09:42 PM »

Quote

Yeah, Man, I've ridden over that James River Bridge many, many times.  Last time was in the mid 70's.  Toll was .90 then, I believe.  Some good points posted concerning this issue, but I would advise a little less hostile approach.  Ever heard of "Obstructing Traffic?"  Having had experience with fighting City Hall, it's best to fight your Battles there.  Research info on how many bikes enter the toll everyday, how much revenue is generated by those tolls, how many Bikes are registered in the immediate area, how many Bikes are registered in the State, how many crashes involving Motorcycles and Cages, have occured at each Toll Booth, etc.  Then suck up to one of the Politicians, and let him take credit for suggesting the construction of the New "Motorcycles Only" toll booth.  Emphasize the "Safety Factor."  Don't forget to lobby for reduced tolls for Motorcycles, too.  Plan your work, and work your plan.  Politicians don't see you as people, when you walk through those Capitol doors.  They only see votes.  More people, more votes.  Twolane, would be a great source for strategy, and orginization for you guys.  I wouldn't even attempt a Political battle, of any kind, without his advice.  There endeth the lesson.  Later--HUBBARD

Just saw this thread and have to agree with Red and Hubbard.  This isn't a battle I'd want to take on as a political activist.  Asking for something for free (toll road access) that all other "normal" users have to pay for and then shutting down the system because you're not getting it is no way to fight a political battle.

Bikes are already at best only tolerated in many municipalities.  At best we're treated equally with the safety concerns we need above equality left to ourselves.  That's exactly how it should be though (at least in my opinon).  There aren't enough of us that it'd be right for the entire road network to be tailored to the few extra things that might make our lives easier when we really can tend to those things ourselves with not much extra effort.

Consider the following as a completely logical and not at all illegitimate scenario from a legislator's or DOT senior bureaucrat's perspective:

Posit:  Hmm, motorcycles want unfettered or least preferential access at toll plazas.  There's not that many of them.  It'll cost as much to accomodate those few as it would to equally benefit some tremendously larger number of other motor traffic.

Response 1: Ok, I guess I'll do it.

Budget office to legislator or bureaucrat: "How are you going to pay for it?"

Legislator or Bureaucrat: "Well, the benefit is targeted to a select group.  I guess we'll have to figure out how that group can cover some major portion of the expense.  Perhaps motorcycle license plate fees or property tax rates will have to go up?  We might even have to couple that with mandatory helmet laws.  After all, motorcycle accident injuries cost the state (through costs above those covered by insurances and not paid by the victims) more than other motor vehicle accident injuries.  We absorb those differences in per-mile-expense on the system now beause, overall, the cost isn't so great as to necessitate the political battle.  But now they're wanting some extra so we'll have to regulate the expense more tightly.  So if we mandate helmet laws for all bikes in our state we're lowering the cost we absorb to have motorcycles in the system without raising the various taxes.  Or gee, maybe we'll have to mandate helmet laws and raise the fees too."

Basically, for me, the US highway system is a system I can use as a biker.  Safely and mostly easily.  I may have to be more careful in some areas than others.  But I can do that.  It is part of being self-reliant on the bike after all.  I don't want any damn special privilege and I especially don't want any special notice from the government.  Especially when not getting those things means they basically leave me the hell alone.  Last thing I want to do is give a government a good reason to really start thinking A LOT about motorcycle usage on the highway grid.  Because when they do it won't be a good thing for us.  You may see some near term pacification to your near term demand.  The longer term result won't be nearly as good though.  

Above and beyond all that I can not understand at all why I'd want to piss off all the motor vehicle traffic backed up for god knows how many miles behind me at a busy toll plaza.  They're going to get through the plaza eventually after all.  Some of them may not stay behind me.  And they're all sure as hell bigger and more stable than my bike.  

There are, for sure, within any group a few nuts out there.  Guys pissed off sitting in there car close to overheating with the kid squalling in the back seat is just one step closer to being next nut with a case of road rage.  I don't appreciate all of you painting a bullseye on my bike as a way to vent your inadequacies in dealing with a toll plaza.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2006, 11:15:16 PM by twolanerider »
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HUBBARD

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Re: Toll road protest  in Virginia for bikes
« Reply #16 on: July 09, 2006, 10:49:18 AM »

See?  Told 'ya!  ;) Later--HUBBARD
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Crawdaddy

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Re: Toll road protest  in Virginia for bikes
« Reply #17 on: July 09, 2006, 12:58:56 PM »

In Oklahoma, we have a PikePass system that reads the pass and charges to your account.  I have often wondered why this system isn't used for all tolls and appropriate state accounts credited with one pass.  It would seem to me this would be a better vision to legislate.  All vehicles would be included, and traffic would flow so much better.

When we rode to Key West and used a portion of the turnpike around Miami, we had to stop almost every 7 to 10 miles.  They had huge toll booths with attendents.  Seemed expensive to me.  Also, it created a major merge issue going back to 6 lanes.  Just about the time the traffic spread out....here come another toll plaza.
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naitram

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Re: Toll road protest  in Virginia for bikes
« Reply #18 on: July 09, 2006, 01:45:01 PM »

i think at this point you can use transponders in most of the eastern states
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SPIDERMAN

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Re: Toll road protest  in Virginia for bikes
« Reply #19 on: July 09, 2006, 02:29:37 PM »

Hmmmmmmmmm   Seems easy enough to me,

 A) Pay the toll.
          
          OR

 B) Move somewhere where there are no toll roads
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Twolanerider

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Re: Toll road protest  in Virginia for bikes
« Reply #20 on: July 09, 2006, 02:31:38 PM »

Quote
Hmmmmmmmmm   Seems easy enough to me,

 A) Pay the toll.
          
          OR

 B) Move somewhere where there are no toll roads


I'd love toll roads if Hooters girls manned the toll boths.  There'd still be a traffic jam.  But I'd care much less.
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SPIDERMAN

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Re: Toll road protest  in Virginia for bikes
« Reply #21 on: July 09, 2006, 02:51:53 PM »

Quote


I'd love toll roads if Hooters girls manned the toll boths.   [highlight]There'd still be a traffic jam.[/highlight]  But I'd care much less.

Well then it would be HONKERS wouldn't it   :D  ;D [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif]

Sorry, off thread I know. Don makes me laugh and say silly things

« Last Edit: July 09, 2006, 02:52:27 PM by SPIDERMAN »
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SPIDERMAN

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Re: Toll road protest  in Virginia for bikes
« Reply #22 on: July 09, 2006, 02:55:39 PM »

On a more serious note, for those of you who may not have traveled a lot. If you draw a line from Chicago to Norfolk on the map of the USA, everywhere northeast of that line will have toll roads. With a few exceptions, everywhere else will not.
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spydglide

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Re: Toll road protest  in Virginia for bikes
« Reply #23 on: July 09, 2006, 03:57:21 PM »

The politicians in charge are considering toll hwys. in NC........maybe the recently approved Lottery will fill the coffers enough to avoid this.   :-/  spyder
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spydglide

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Re: Toll road protest  in Virginia for bikes
« Reply #24 on: July 09, 2006, 04:00:15 PM »

Quote
On a more serious note, for those of you who may not have traveled a lot. If you draw a line from Chicago to Norfolk on the map of the USA, everywhere northeast of that line will have toll roads. With a few exceptions, everywhere else will not.
I guess the little change dispenser that fits on the handlebars is seen more frequently on bikes in the northeast.....I had a buddy put one on the Electra Glide he used for touring.....avoided digging thru rainsuits at toll booths, he said.   :-/  spyder
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Fired00d

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Re: Toll road protest  in Virginia for bikes
« Reply #25 on: July 09, 2006, 06:18:01 PM »

Quote
I'd love toll roads if Hooters girls manned the toll boths.  There'd still be a traffic jam.  But I'd care much less.
I can see that now. You and I doing U turns around tollbooth just to check out some hottie. [smiley=sneaky.gif]

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Re: Toll road protest  in Virginia for bikes
« Reply #26 on: July 09, 2006, 06:22:50 PM »

Quote
I guess the little change dispenser that fits on the handlebars is seen more frequently on bikes in the northeast.....I had a buddy put one on the Electra Glide he used for touring.....avoided digging thru rainsuits at toll booths, he said.   :-/  spyder
You got that right. Even worse if you have a one-piece rain suit on. Made the mistake of buying one of those before I ever had to use it. They are a pain to get in, and out of (especially if you wait to the last minute to "relieve" yourself [smiley=nervous.gif]) and them not having pockets is a pain in the arse. :o

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Twolanerider

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Re: Toll road protest  in Virginia for bikes
« Reply #27 on: July 09, 2006, 07:09:41 PM »

Quote
I can see that now. You and I doing U turns around tollbooth just to check out some hottie. [smiley=sneaky.gif]

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Is it wrong to pay the same toll four times just to see the girl again?
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Fired00d

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Re: Toll road protest  in Virginia for bikes
« Reply #28 on: July 09, 2006, 07:58:55 PM »

Quote
Is it wrong to pay the same toll four times just to see the girl again?
Nope, not at all. If she's that hot I'm going to keep giving her bills even though she's given me change back on previous time thru her booth. This way I get to have more time/conversation w/her. This is something I read in a famous "Male Gigolo's" memoirs. ;)

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VaEagle

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Re: Toll road protest  in Virginia for bikes
« Reply #29 on: July 09, 2006, 08:18:11 PM »

Hooters girls for toll booth atendants may make the experience more enjoyable and worth it too! [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif] [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]

I have read all the posts so far and I feel they all have valid points to consider.I can not speak for those who are organizing this event and have no idea what ideas they have tried or attempts they have made to the politicians already.
For those of you who are not familiar with the Norfolk/Virginia Beach area, we used to have a toll road as part of our road system and it was a major route. There were many accidents at the toll booth area including fatalities. (One involving a Suburban that got rear ended and it caught on fire) And it also was a bottle neck area for traffic.(There was no easy pass system at the time though.) For the past several years the toll booths were removed and traffic is flowing much better and many fewer accidents too.
I agree that the public and the politicians need to be educated as to the safety concerns and the true numbers of motorcycles on the road. Such as the ride to work day each year. They already have driver awareness ads in some states telling drivers to be aware of biker's on the road. Look at some states that have slippery pavement markings for bridge grates or changed the rain groove patterns in pavement to make things safer for bikes.
Since most politicians don't ride they have no idea of our concerns and i'm sure don't really care about us.
As far as bikes getting some special consideration in some respect they already get that in states where the can ride in HOV-2 or more lanes even if they are ridden solo. I'm sure some car driver's resent that as much as bikes being allowed to lane split in California.

I freely admit I don't know much about the electronic pass devices that some areas have. They may be the solution for most motorist if they can be used in every state.I would hate to think that if I was traveling cross country that I might have to have several of those boxes and make sure I was using the right one or have to have a dash full of them.I would hate to find out as I was approaching a pass booth that my device wasn't working and I would have to change lanes suddenly to get to a manned booth or run the risk of running the booth and getting a ticket.A universal box would be great if all states agreed.

The Virginia politicians are trying to get more toll booths installed as a way to pay for road improvements including ones back on I264 between Norfolk/ Virginia Beach and also the state lines north and south on I95 and I85. So they will take congested roads and choke them down.
They need to think outside the box and look at taxing drivers based on yearly mileage during renewed license plates or state inspection or some other way instead of a toll booth.
I do think we need to have constructive P.R. as a group as we all know all of the charity rides,Patriot Guard activites, and other good deeds of many can be forgotten by the average person and politician by the bad acts of only a few bikers.
It can be a hard balancing act to have our concerns and voices heard in a constructive way, someone in a large group can go overboard and break the law which is never good.
 [smiley=soapbox.gif]

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