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CVO Technical => Twin Cam => Topic started by: Thundercloud on September 14, 2013, 06:22:32 AM
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Considering installing the S&S 570 cams on my 2013 CVO Road Glide Custom, can any of you provide some first hand knowledge with these cams on a 110"?
Thanks in advance,
TC
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I have those in my 04- 103. They work great in there. John Sachs would be the guy to ask,,, I think he really believes in those cams,,, there's something new from kury that he likes as well..
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Recommended applications for S&S Cams
475: A bolt-in replacement cam designed for riders with stock engines that want to eliminate the factory chain drive system, but are not necessarily looking for more power.
509: Designed as a bolt-in, high torque cam for 1999-'06 models. 180 psi cranking compression, no need for compression releases. For 88 CID engines with stock compression ratio. Idle-4500 rpm.
510: Designed as a bolt-in cam for 88, 95, and 96 CID engines with compression ratios below 9.7:1, it is primarily intended for use with stock, un-ported heads. 3000-5500 rpm.
551: Designed for engines with 96 to 106 CID and 9:1 to 9:9 compression this is a bolt-in cam set designed for stock or mildly modified touring bikes. 551 cams are not recommended for compression ratios of 10:1 or greater. Greatly improves low-end and midrange torque, strongest from idle-4000rpm.
557: Designed for Tri-Glide® models, this cam, with it’s short duration, produces lots of useable torque. The camshaft’s stock base circle permits the use of stock pushrods. However, we recommend S&S Quickee pushrods for easy installation. 557 camshafts are available in chain or gear driven versions. Both come with our Easy Start automatic compression release feature for quick starts. Fits all 2009-2012 Harley-Davidson®Tri-Glide® models.
570: Designed for 88 to 96 CID engines with compression ratios between 9:1 and 10:1 this cam will provide a nice power increase across the entire power band. 3200-5700 rpm.
583: Optimized for use in the Softail®/Dyna® lines, this cam makes horsepower and torque that you can feel all the way through the rpm range, making the most power right where you need it:1500–5000rpm
585: Designed for 88 to 96 CID engines with compression ratios from 9:1 to 10:1 and 100 to 111 CID engines from 9.7:1 to 10.5:1 compression. Provides massive horsepower and torque increases starting at 3000rpm and holds steady all the way to redline. 3500-6000 rpm for 88" - 96" engines and ---------- 2500-5500 for larger engines. ------------
625: Cam set designed for 95” or larger engines with compression ratios between 10.0 and 10.75:1. 3000-6000 rpm.
640: Used in S&S T124 engines, this cam makes horsepower! Intended for engines of 95 CID or more w/compression ratios between 10.5:1 and 11.5:1. 3000-6000 rpm.
675: A high lift monster, this cam set is designed for 120” or larger engines with at least 11:1 compression ratio. 4500-6500 rpm.
Note: Stock valve springs in 1999-’04 big twin models can handle cams with valve lifts as high as .515”. Stock valve springs in 2005-up engines can accommodate valve lifts up to .590”.
I was going to go for the 570 cam as well. Then I rode a bike with a set of 585's and was very pleased with how early they came on and the bike pulled hard all the way up to 6000 RPM Then I checked out the S&S web site and you can see that the 585 come it at 2500 RPM and the 570 @ 3200 So, I am switching to the 585 as I really liked the way the rode. 551 is a bolt in cam for stock engines. Check out that one as well. Cheers.
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The tune and pipe will influence "how early they come on" as well as the static CR.
The 585 is not that different than the 570 and both work well. Nothing wrong with jacking up the intake lift with a ratio rocker.
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we`ve used both 570`s & 585`s in 110`s.both are very good.set the .570 @ 10.0-1,the 585 @ 10.5-1
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We've used the .570 in the 110" engine, set at 10.0 cr via re-surfacing the heads.
They run very well, and really tame the heat as well.
Scott
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If the heads are coming off,MUCH better choices for cams.
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Stay with the .570's............you'll be plenty happy.
Scott
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The 110 works well with the 570. I think that like most cams with the 110 the engine like a bump in compression ratio. The 570 has always been a decent cam. If you where to use a .030 head gasket and maybe machine the deck of the head just a bit you could have a very nice hp and tq curve from the 110. That however is not going to alter the issue that the 110 heads have like ( some heads on some bikes its not per say across the board but like most shops we have seen enough fail) replace guides is by far the largest concern.
This is a bolt in cam not much for HP but has a huge tq curve that will put a huge smile on your face and for everyday use is one extremely quick bike.
(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b537/Gmr-Performance/2012CVO110SampS583CAMCRUSHEREX001_zps4343827b.jpg) (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/Gmr-Performance/media/2012CVO110SampS583CAMCRUSHEREX001_zps4343827b.jpg.html)
below our cam more of a balance of power and tq.
(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b537/Gmr-Performance/cvo110genesis577001_zps6be1d4c8.jpg) (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/Gmr-Performance/media/cvo110genesis577001_zps6be1d4c8.jpg.html).
Ported heads with same cam. You can see what that had to offer and where. For some porting is not worth the money for a gain in power as its not where they ride "their" bike . Thats a preference
As you can see with just a few sheets that the options are wide open and the engine will work with most cams. Pick your power curve and then go from there. I would say beware of cams that are stated that " you really need to raise compression for it to work" as what you find is that is just the foot in the door deal. Not that the cam is not a good item just that it seems there is much more to it. So is that bolt in really a bolt in?? ...Yes and No . Take your time, if you are not doing the work contact a few shops in your area, see what they can offer. Try to locate a shop that can do the install and tune the bike in one location. That will prevent the finger pointing if something does not work as well .. If you would like more examples let me know I have many more.
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What creates the dip in the first chart between 3500-4000?
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well that is made by the old style D&D fat cat pipe.. Its about 5-6 ft lbs. You cannot feel that even when you ride in and through it several times you wont feel the engine lay down from that minor dip. In 2009 the pipe was changed and that is gone.
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Recently did an 88-107" via crank replacement/bore, S&S .570/S&S G/DTT/Fatcat/our 1.940" valve head. 10.0 cr, for a client in Ballston Spa, N.Y.(north of Albany)
Sae'd here at 119/121. :2vrolijk_21:
Scott
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What would that build have to do with a 110" build ?
And why if both GMR's cam and the Kury 24 cam both for lack of better words kick ass in a 110'er would you want or need a cam with 15 degrees more exhaust timing ?
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well that is made by the old style D&D fat cat pipe.. Its about 5-6 ft lbs. You cannot feel that even when you ride in and through it several times you wont feel the engine lay down from that minor dip. In 2009 the pipe was changed and that is gone.
What is the difference in the pipes?
Any reason to change out the older one for new?
Did D&D do any better with O2 placement then the older version?
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What would that build have to do with a 110" build ?
And why if both GMR's cam and the Kury 24 cam both for lack of better words kick ass in a 110'er would you want or need a cam with 15 degrees more exhaust timing ?
Please feel free to contact the Engineering Dept. @ www.sscycle.com...
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(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b537/Gmr-Performance/IMG_0499_zps4124ccf1.jpg) (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/Gmr-Performance/media/IMG_0499_zps4124ccf1.jpg.html)
110 stock heads stock t/b our genesis cam and SE stage III kit. Easy and makes very good power.
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(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b537/Gmr-Performance/IMG_0499_zps4124ccf1.jpg) (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/Gmr-Performance/media/IMG_0499_zps4124ccf1.jpg.html)
110 stock heads stock t/b our genesis cam and SE stage III kit. Easy and makes very good power.
What is the stage III kit?
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Man that's hard to believe!!! I just seen two full builds with head work higher comp, TB, 585's and all the goodies ( $7000.00 build ) barely make that kind of power torque. The dyno guy was telling me he just did two supercharged 110 and the both made around 140 fpt and 130 hp. So to get 126 fpt out of a practically stock bike??? Just hard to believe that's all.
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Its not just the cam its about getting the right parts to work " together" Some would say that it needs to have 116+ hp or whatever. I have done several of these in house and have had half a dozen or more lost count really that have been done else where. Simple deal really. I know that goes against some thoughts and opinion. Hey it works and has a great curve.
lets look at if from another angle.. a stock 255 with a good ex and air cleaner tuned by someone that knows what they are doing and good at their job.
110 in that form =96 hp and 110 tq so a gain of 16 tq with a piston kit and different cam is hard to believe?? How about this then results do vary , try it another day and it may get better, I can show you what it does with the stock stock engine and just a cam install then you see that it only made 8 more tq . That other sheet is in STD so take a few off those numbers I have to reprint that sheet. It was ascreen shot and the other tuner use std so i compared in the same
(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b537/Gmr-Performance/2012CVO110GENESIS577PWRDUALS_zpsa1176b0a.jpg) (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/Gmr-Performance/media/2012CVO110GENESIS577PWRDUALS_zpsa1176b0a.jpg.html)
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I am doing a complete engine build with the best builder we have here in Ontario. Porting, machine work, and crank work with the best guy in Canada, ( Patric from J Precision ) Then getting it tuned with the best tuner in the surrounding aria. So everything is to legit to quit around here. I am hoping for some half decent numbers and a good "seat of the pant" feel. But I am skeptical I will get 128 fpt and 120 hp like your graphs show. I just see to many graphs on this forum with guy's who bolt on a intake and some slip-ons and there bikes make 120/120 Kind of unreal to me. Will post the dyno run results in a few weeks. Until then I will cross my digits. Cheers.
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I feel that with the 110 it can be a little hard to get the power where you want it and I can tell you that with tuning it can be very picky on timing. Its not the most easy going kit.. Not hard but you need to try moving timing around and many times the timing curve is not what you would use for most other engines. I have several kits that I like to use and if a customer wants a certain power level I use only those parts.
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I am doing a complete engine build with the best builder we have here in Ontario. Porting, machine work, and crank work with the best guy in Canada, ( Patric from J Precision ) Then getting it tuned with the best tuner in the surrounding aria. So everything is to legit to quit around here. I am hoping for some half decent numbers and a good "seat of the pant" feel. But I am skeptical I will get 128 fpt and 120 hp like your graphs show. I just see to many graphs on this forum with guy's who bolt on a intake and some slip-ons and there bikes make 120/120 Kind of unreal to me. Will post the dyno run results in a few weeks. Until then I will cross my digits. Cheers.
What all is patric doing ?
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I am doing a complete engine build with the best builder we have here in Ontario. Porting, machine work, and crank work with the best guy in Canada, ( Patric from J Precision ) Then getting it tuned with the best tuner in the surrounding aria. So everything is to legit to quit around here. I am hoping for some half decent numbers and a good "seat of the pant" feel. But I am skeptical I will get 128 fpt and 120 hp like your graphs show. I just see to many graphs on this forum with guy's who bolt on a intake and some slip-ons and there bikes make 120/120 Kind of unreal to me. Will post the dyno run results in a few weeks. Until then I will cross my digits. Cheers.
Al McAlvena from over near Mississagua, was a darn good builder/racer, but he is gone now. RIP.
Scott
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I am doing a complete engine build with the best builder we have here in Ontario. Porting, machine work, and crank work with the best guy in Canada, ( Patric from J Precision ) Then getting it tuned with the best tuner in the surrounding aria. So everything is to legit to quit around here. I am hoping for some half decent numbers and a good "seat of the pant" feel. But I am skeptical I will get 128 fpt and 120 hp like your graphs show. I just see to many graphs on this forum with guy's who bolt on a intake and some slip-ons and there bikes make 120/120 Kind of unreal to me. Will post the dyno run results in a few weeks. Until then I will cross my digits. Cheers.
who is doing your engine build? and who do you use for the best dyno tuner? thank you , good info to no .
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What all is patric doing ?
Patric already ported my heads and intake 2 years ago, so now he will deck the heads to bring up the comp to 10:5-1 and refresh them. Cylinder boring for the 0.010 over pistons and groove the valve pockets so everything clears. A complete re and re of the crank with new Timkin bearings, balance and weld. He will also repair the scoring I have on the tip of the crank from the excessive run out. Hopefully will be running in about 2 weeks so I can get some nice fall riding/ripping. I know I will make at least 200 hp and 300 fpt once I am done. ;)
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Intake.
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Large port rough texture ;) :2vrolijk_21:
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We just built a 2011 CVO 110"/.585 S&S cam/our heads/58mm HD t/body/10.5 cr, that came in with V&H pipes, from Salem, Mass.
UNTUNED, on our Dynojet 150 it showed "measured" 124.7 hp, 121.7 ft/lbs., "corrected" 119.8 hp 116.8 ft/lbs., at 55.6 degrees F, 29.92 baro., 0.27 in.Hg, 634 ft elevation, RPM/MPH=47(5th gear).
Came in at 89 hp/107 ft/lbs, cylinders never came off the case deck.
Ought to run well after tuning. :D
Scott
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So about 112 horse
Should do that with just a cam pipe and a tune
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Wouldn't have expected anything less than that, once again............ :2vrolijk_21: :2vrolijk_21:
www.maliburacing.com has some very interesting info............ :D
Scott
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www.maliburacing.com has some very interesting info............ :D
Scott
Not sure what/who you are referring to, but there's a lot of info on that site. Can you be more specific?
Thanks
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Not sure what/who you are referring to, but there's a lot of info on that site. Can you be more specific?
Thanks
Dont bother its nothing that has anything to do with this post.
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VERY interesting information that was PM'd to us, nonetheless.