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[Para Bellum]

I am good with choice as long as I don't pay the extra cost for none helmeted riders when / if they get hurt. 

I don't want to pay for the rescue of mountain climbers who start off when a snow storm is imminent--but I do.  Don't want to pay for hikers who get lost--but I do.  Don't want to pay for bungee jumpers who stretch the cord a little too far--but I do.  All these activities are done by choice--just like not wearing a helmet.

My point is that it should not be our choice to impose conditions on one group of people when other groups are free to do as they please, and my wallet has to cover it.  If we're honest about it, all of us do something that could cost other people.  Should we outlaw everything you like that might cost us?

[2harleys]

I don't want to pay for the rescue of mountain climbers who start off when a snow storm is imminent--but I do.  Don't want to pay for hikers who get lost--but I do.  Don't want to pay for bungee jumpers who stretch the cord a little too far--but I do.  All these activities are done by choice--just like not wearing a helmet.

My point is that it should not be our choice to impose conditions on one group of people when other groups are free to do as they please, and my wallet has to cover it.  If we're honest about it, all of us do something that could cost other people.  Should we outlaw everything you like that might cost us?

Could NOT have said it better, or agree with you more. Unfortunately there are always those that think you should obey their thoughts on your rights.

[9 1/2 Beers]

Could NOT have said it better, or agree with you more. Unfortunately there are always those that think you should obey their thoughts on your rights.

 Or think they know what is best for others. 

[tysndys]

The thrill, rush, and freedom motorcycles furnish us should not be infringed by a Nannie state.

[dlaws01]

And we can be certain that you do not want to pay medical bills for those smokers that now have lung cancer, and the overweight people that have medical problems because of their obesity. And on and on and on.

2harleys has really hit the point. Just where is it cut off? Some would argue that motorcycles by nature are dangerous, with just two wheels and no air bags.  What about all those people with genetic predispositions toward cancer?  If we don't defend the rights of all, even those we might not completely agree with, then all our rights are subject to attack.  If you want to where a helmet then go ahead. If you don't want to split lanes then don't but have the courage to defend the rights of those non-helmet wearing lane splitters that do.
I wonder how many non-smokers set back and joined the rally to "raise taxes" on cigarettes just to find out latter that the same group has now decided to attack "higher fat" foods or coffee or liquor, etc.  It was ok when it didn't affect then personally but what about now, when it's something that they want or care about?  Our freedom and rights to do what we darn well want to do is what makes out country the best place to live on this planet and you might not always agree with everyone else but you really need to defend their rights to do so.

[DaBigNuttedMan]

2harleys has really hit the point. Just where is it cut off? Some would argue that motorcycles by nature are dangerous, with just two wheels and no air bags.  What about all those people with genetic predispositions toward cancer?  If we don't defend the rights of all, even those we might not completely agree with, then all our rights are subject to attack.  If you want to where a helmet then go ahead. If you don't want to split lanes then don't but have the courage to defend the rights of those non-helmet wearing lane splitters that do.
I wonder how many non-smokers set back and joined the rally to "raise taxes" on cigarettes just to find out latter that the same group has now decided to attack "higher fat" foods or coffee or liquor, etc.  It was ok when it didn't affect then personally but what about now, when it's something that they want or care about?  Our freedom and rights to do what we darn well want to do is what makes out country the best place to live on this planet and you might not always agree with everyone else but you really need to defend their rights to do so.

I agree Bigtime

[DaBigNuttedMan]

Driving a car with a helmet is no problem. I normally do when on the track. Of course I wear a nomex suit to since it really hurts when the car is on fire. (Last time I did Road America we had a couple of small fires but not in my Lotus)

So instead of a bunch of emotions why not take a look at some accident statistics instead  

Not getting emotional on you Rotary JMHO

[Para Bellum]

If we don't defend the rights of all, even those we might not completely agree with, then all our rights are subject to attack.

There's the point I wanted to make but probably didn't.  It's "Divide and Conquer" at its finest.  The statement "I don't want to pay for their (for example) lung cancer from smoking" gives the "nanny group" a wedge to drive between us.  Then they gather everybody who agrees with that and take away the right to smoke (or make it a real hassle, so it's not worth the trouble, but they can say you still have the right).  Then they move to the next group, stir up resentment against them, and stamp out that behavior.

Don't fall into the traps they set for us to take away our freedoms, whether they are the government, atheists, extreme religionists, environmentalists, or anyone else.

[9 1/2 Beers]

There's the point I wanted to make but probably didn't.  It's "Divide and Conquer" at its finest.  The statement "I don't want to pay for their (for example) lung cancer from smoking" gives the "nanny group" a wedge to drive between us.  Then they gather everybody who agrees with that and take away the right to smoke (or make it a real hassle, so it's not worth the trouble, but they can say you still have the right).  Then they move to the next group, stir up resentment against them, and stamp out that behavior.

Don't fall into the traps they set for us to take away our freedoms, whether they are the government, atheists, extreme religionists, environmentalists, or anyone else.

 Well put 

[Rooster]

I am good with choice as long as I don't pay the extra cost for none helmeted riders when / if they get hurt.

FL got it right. If you don't want to wear a helmet you don't have to but you will pay for the extra insurance.

A.B.A.T.E. agreed been a member for years

[2harleys]

A.B.A.T.E. agreed been a member for years

Just for clarification, are you saying A.B.A.T.E does not believe in freedom of choice? Or did I mis-read this post?

[grc]

I believe in personal responsibility and not just limited to motorcycle operators.  Insurance is supposedly required to get a vehicle registration in any state I'm familiar with.  Unfortunately the state minimum insurance in most states is a pathetically low liability limit and no medical coverage at all.  And most states also seem to look the other way when the insurance gets cancelled as soon as the registration and plates are issued.  Those problems need to be corrected and all states need to require meaningful coverage and insist insurance companies immediately notify them when policies are cancelled.  Then the state needs to drag the offender in, void his registration and plates, kick his sorry ass, and take any other punitive actions allowed by law.  None of this will ever happen, thus we all have to pay extra for uninsured motorist coverage when we buy our insurance.

The same thing applies to health insurance unfortunately.  We finally have a half-assed law that requires individuals to be insured, but large numbers of slackers and whiners won't sign up of course because they would prefer to spend their money on important stuff like buying the latest iPhone every six months, paying for the unlimited everything packages, drugs, booze, and parties.  So those of us who are responsible get to pay through the nose not only for our insurance but also for the inflated costs passed along to us by the various healthcare providers to make up for the deadbeats.

I have a solution, but unfortunately the politicians don't have the cojones to do it.  Remove the requirement that hospitals have to accept anyone who darkens their doors regardless of insurance status or ability to pay.  Then make it illegal for those hospitals to pass along to the rest of us any costs associated with free care if they continue to provide such care.  If they want to give out free care, let it come from the shareholders and directors.  This would solve the problem of those people who prefer to spend their money on fun and games versus insurance, and would also solve the problem of people having to pay for nimrods who ride motorcycles with no protective gear and no insurance.  This would also have a secondary benefit of cleaning up the gene pool by eliminating many irresponsible dumb asses.

Jerry

[FlaHeatWave]

Jerry please let me share your   for a minute...

Don't leave out the illegal aliens that don't pay taxes and are a significant burden on all of our infrastructure ~ insurance rates, medical costs, to name 2.

Recently, some have wanted to reinstate the helmet law in FLA. Their statistics;
Motorcycle fatalities: 48% WITH HELMET, 50% WITHOUT HELMET, 2% error.
By their stats it seems that there is not much difference whether you wear a helmet or not?
I have 3 helmets and wear them a lot of the time, even when not required, but don't want it to be a government mandate! I think that people like me (us ~ remember this is the CVO forum) that have the responsibility (added insurance ~ if that makes you feel better), should have a choice!!!

I experienced a little lane splitting when I was in CA for a month last year, and was impressed with the general quality of the drivers in CA. When I would come up behind them and they would see my lights or hear my pipes, they would move over and let me through, with no animosity that I could detect. In general the drivers in CA seemed more aware, and polite too. To me, you really need the lane splitting in some places / times, imo it is a safety practice when done properly.

It's amazing to me that California, used to be one of the more progressive states, has allowed itself to be legislated into a state that is afraid of its own shadow, regulation after regulation to protect them from themselves.

And for all those that don't want the non-helmet wearing heathens to be a fiscal burden, just think how many Trillions of $$$$ that we are spending rebuilding the Middle East...    

[lowflight]

I always thought that the basis of U.S.A. was freedom. Very sad to see the continued erosion of our freedoms. 

[FLHTCUSE7]

What has freedom have to do with me paying for someone that decides to not wear proper protection?

Wear whatever you want but I should not pay for other peoples poor choices.