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[TIF2]

Just read about one of these in Bagger, where they did a complete how-to install. Seems as though H-D hasn't tamed all the handling demons with the new frame, the article mentions a tendancy for the rear-end to wobble entering turns. They said this thing puts it on rails. A little pricey but seems to be well made and engineered. Basically it provides a third stabilizing link for the motor to the frame.

It mounts underneath the bike and cannot be seen once installed.

www.true-track.com



Thoughts? I think I need one.

[Widows Son]

Here is another thread that may help you in the forum.

http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=41934.0

As I understand (and I may be wrong) the frame isn't the full picture of rear end wobble. Its also a function of the engine mounts. Since tourers don't used the balanced engine as the Softail, they instead rubber mount (I think) the touring unbalanced twin. This is why HD refers to the "B" in the 96B engine while tourers only get the 96. Possibly the same theory in the 110. Since the engine isn't rigid mounted it can sway in its mounts due to the physics of taking a turn. This is what starts a wobble...I think there was a recent article in the latest American Rider magazine (Dec'09) on Wiggle and Wobble which was pretty good. It tells you have to manage a situation of front end wiggle and rear end wobble. Anyway, the aobe link will take you to the thread with a whole lot'a info.

[TIF2]

Thanks for the link ... I'll probably wind up getting one as I don't see hoiw it could do anything but help.

[RedDevil]

maybe my SESG isn't old enough yet, but I've pushed it through some pretty tight corners and have not noticed any rear end wobble, wibble, wooble, or whatever you want to call it.  It's been rock solid. 
 

[Gone Fishin']

I don't think they offer anything for 2010 models, although they have a touring version for 2009. 2009 and 2010 should be practically identical. In any case, the device seems to be a solution to a problem not really existing after the frame change. All wobble or similar experienced on these new bikes, if at all, seems to come from the batwing effects.

Ride safely,
Louis

[Mr. Wizard]

I don't think they offer anything for 2010 models, although they have a touring version for 2009. 2009 and 2010 should be practically identical. In any case, the device seems to be a solution to a problem not really existing after the frame change. All wobble or similar experienced on these new bikes, if at all, seems to come from the batwing effects.

Ride safely,
Louis

+1

I have a true-track on my 07 UC and can be at the Dragon in only a few hours so I am there a lot. Before the true-track I had issues with rear end wobble, after the installation all wobble was gone. The true-track adds a fourth link to the frame, Willy G himself said a fourth mount or link was necessary. This device can be installed in about 15 to 25 minutes and was a real help to me. Since then, I have triked the UC and left the device on. The trike will absolutely handle like it is on a rail while others seem to have more difficulty in turns than I and seem to be adding the true-track to their Harley trikes.

During the break in period of my SESG I went straight to the mountains. This was great for changing RPM's in acceleration and decel. The handling experience of new frame is just beyond words. I doubt the true-track is necessary and see no need to install one unless you simply want one.


Cheers

[JCZ]

Tru Tra Track has been around for a couple of years....nothing new.

I haven't read of anybody with an 09 or 10 having this problem.  Am I missing something or is just propoganda to increase sales?

[RedDevil]

Tru Tra Track has been around for a couple of years....nothing new.

I haven't read of anybody with an 09 or 10 having this problem.  Am I missing something or is just propoganda to increase sales?

Ya hit it on the head JC...they're making something up, IMO.   I think they figured they'll plant the scare and that will allow them to stay in business selling something that you don't really need.  The new rear end assembly on the HDs is going to put them out of business, unless they come up with something other than the Tru-trak.

[hd-dude]

Tru Tra Track has been around for a couple of years....nothing new.

I haven't read of anybody with an 09 or 10 having this problem.  Am I missing something or is just propoganda to increase sales?

Ya hit it on the head JC...they're making something up, IMO.   I think they figured they'll plant the scare and that will allow them to stay in business selling something that you don't really need.  The new rear end assembly on the HDs is going to put them out of business, unless they come up with something other than the Tru-trak.

 

[TIF2]

Crazy that rags just print stuff without going in-depth to see if products do what they say they do, or address a real problem. The article is in the Tech section of the latest American Bagger. If you read their write-up, sure seems like it is a "must-have". Guess it's more about the Vendor plugs than responsible journalism, eh? Did some more research and found one article that states the 2009 frame ALREADY has 4 mount points for the motor.

Looks like there is $400 back into the mod pool  

Thanks for all the replies

[Mr. Wizard]

The handling experience of new frame is just beyond words. I doubt the true-track is necessary and see no need to install one unless you simply want one.

No propaganda here... but I think it is weird that you insinuate that.

Anyway..  headed to Charlotte this morning on the trike and going to enjoy a beautiful weekend. Hope everyone gets out and has a great day.

Cheers.

[Hoist!]

I haven't ridden an '09 or '10 yet, but I'll bet I can put it into a wobble. With the same rubber-mounted package, I'm not necessarily convinced they got rid of it. The frame was made cause it's cheaper to build em this way, not to make the bike more stable. HD doesn't really GAS about that. And I've heard of some picking up a wobble on em. Installing a 3rd link on these rubber-mounts make good sense and can't hurt. But I wouldn't bet the farm that HD has cured all it's evils on these things!

Hoist!

[JCZ]

No propaganda here... but I think it is weird that you insinuate that.

Anyway..  headed to Charlotte this morning on the trike and going to enjoy a beautiful weekend. Hope everyone gets out and has a great day.

Cheers.

Not suggesting that you are creating propoganda.....you're just reporting on what you read.  We all do that and I don't think anybody holds you responsable.  I apologize for the misunderstanding.

My comment is directed at whoever wrote that article.  Did Tru Track write it.....or did the magazine that gets big advertsing $ from True Track?  From my off the cuff perspective, there in lies the propoganda.  

What makes me suggest "propoganda"?  In years past, it's no secreat that many of the baggers had an issue and their were many opinions and many products (Tru Track has been out for years, it's not new) to correct the issue.  Some of those ideas and products helped some but not others......it was a shot in the dark for those of us forking over the $.

In 09 the MoCo came out with a new frame that has corrected the issue.  There are many, many 09 and 10 model year baggers out on the road.....some already have 10s of thousands of miles.....and I haven't read of one case of the handling issue.  If somebody (a writer) or True Track themselves are reporting that it's still an issue, I ask them to back it up.  Where are they getting their information?

I happen to think this forum right hear would know about that issue (or any other issue) before an after market mfg. or even the MoCo on this issue or any other issue.  There's more accurate and reliable information on this forum than all the other forums put together.  Just my opinion, but it's what I believe.

Howie.....you're the only one I know that would make a bet like that.  Never knew anybody that would "want" to put it into a wobble.  

I'd just suggest that you go ride an 09/10 MY before making comments like this.  Like anything man made, there's going to be an exception in there someplace but overall, the issue is corrected.  I've still yet to hear from the 100s of thousands of 09/10 baggers out there on the road, of one case of the old issue.

**Edit**  By the way, when you go rent one of those 09/10 baggers, be prepared to fork out some $, cause you're damn sure going to want one......with a fairing, too.

[mjb765]

When I had my 06 SG there is a specific road here that if I went fast enough around the bend I could put that thing into a wobble every time. I guess it was just the right combination and location of the bumps in the turn. When I got my '10 I went to the same spot and it was rock solid the entire time. I'm not spending $400 on this stabilizer just yet.

[Hoist!]

Howie.....you're the only one I know that would make a bet like that.  Never knew anybody that would "want" to put it into a wobble.  

I'd just suggest that you go ride an 09/10 MY before making comments like this.  Like anything man made, there's going to be an exception in there someplace but overall, the issue is corrected.  I've still yet to hear from the 100s of thousands of 09/10 baggers out there on the road, of one case of the old issue.

**Edit**  By the way, when you go rent one of those 09/10 baggers, be prepared to fork out some $, cause you're damn sure going to want one......with a fairing, too.

HeHe!!! Not saying there's NO improvement JC, but with the same rubber-mount setup, and a cheaper to build solution, I said I'm not convinced that it's gone. HD didn't change the design to fix the wobble. Then they'd be admitting that they had a problem with the previous models that way.

Don't get me wrong. Any improvement is good, whether it's coincidental or by design. And the True Track provides improvement to some degree, but it's not necessarily a solution either. Mine can wobble with the True Track. Next step in my addressing this is a Steering Damper setup on Cybil. Another experiment on my part. And I'd love to come out there and take you up on riding that new hot rod of yours. But until there's a SERK5, a new bike just ain't gonna happen for me JC! FTF!!!

Hoist!

[Sapper6]

HeHe!!! Not saying there's NO improvement JC, but with the same rubber-mount setup, and a cheaper to build solution, I said I'm not convinced that it's gone. HD didn't change the design to fix the wobble. Then they'd be admitting that they had a problem with the previous models that way.

Rubber mounted yes.
Same rubber-mount setup No.  They speak to the fact that the newer mounting should reduce shake during idle and make no claims about handling concerning the engine mounting, but I thought is was important to note the mounting change along with the frame change.

This takes forever to load, but the mention of the frame/mount change is within the first 1/3 of the video.
http://www.harley-davidson.com/wcm/Content/Pages/Ride_True/Ride_True.jsp?locale=en_US#/the-leader-in-touring/

[TIF2]

Thanks man ... that was a VERY good video!

[Sapper6]

                     

This would be where Hoist would come in and say:

THIS CHIT AIN'T ROCKET SCIENCE!

[Widows Son]

I think change is in the air at HD TIF. Writing's on the wall with the new CEO stepping in, he didn't wait long to narrow HD's focus on what it should be marketing. Their 3Q shareholder announcements of the divestiture of Augusta (only after acquiring it a year ago) and shut down of Buell (versus divestiture - too much HD proprietary technology to let others have) are clear messages. Possibly a good change for hardcore Harley fans since HD will now be 100% focused on in this "traditional" line of products to maintain and gain fans (hope). The only thing I can hope for is better engineering as a result to keep up with folks like Victory and Triumph who are marketing to the the fringe market. For HD to do that, they may worry about alienating their current fans. HD can't experiment too much with "its either the dumbest idea in the world or the greatest" like Victory. The V-Rod was a successful experiment. Here's a simple question for this forum (and no answer required) if HD went with liquid cooled engines like the Rod, how many would bite or run? Fairly risky ideas like that will be, in my humble opinion, the tests we'll see. Case in point: ABS brakes is a no-brainer to a lot of competitors, but really scared HD I'm sure in that it may be "too mainstream" and would turn loyal buyers away (to what, I don't know)

BTW: the opinion I expressed above is strictly mine and if you don't like it, I have others  

[11]

My 09 SERG has no wobble, I think the Bagger article was advertising money geared. Shame guys get there feelings hurt so easily. I commend TruTrack for making it and then spending money to promote it, but I see no need for it, and I buy Bagger, i subscibe but they hawk anyting they are paid to. I  had a earlier model that did wobble, the new one does not. My opinion it is an unnecessary product.

[Rooster]

I agree with some do some don't. I have been lucky on this one so far as my last RK didn't wobble and my 07 doesn't wobble either although it has done several other bad things.

[JCZ]

                   

This would be where Hoist would come in and say:

THIS CHIT AIN'T ROCKET SCIENCE!

It is for him.........till he rides one.  Till then, he's in denial.

[JCZ]

I agree with some do some don't. I have been lucky on this one so far as my last RK didn't wobble and my 07 doesn't wobble either although it has done several other bad things.

Terry, we're talking about the 09 and 10 baggers.  I think we all agree that some bikes of the previous years did have an issue. 

[Talon]

Like Howie has said, if there still using the same basic glob of rubber to support the swingarm pivot bolt, then I would think they would have the same problems as the old frame design. The rubber allows the swingarm to flex under sideload, the change in angle causes the rear steer affect. I haven't looked at the new frame mounting, so I can't say that there hasn't been a change, but with a rubber mounted motor the swing arm needs to move with the motor so the belt stays at the proper tension, don't know what they could be doing different? If there was a major change to the rubber swing arm mount, can someone that knows explain the difference in the new design? Also there are several products other than Tru-track out there, all do pretty much the same thing just slightly different designs. I personally think from a mounting stand point, the Bagger Brace is a better choice, looks like it spreads the mounting on the trans out over more area, with out the tall mounting points of the Tru-Track. Just my thoughts.

Here's Chief's old thread on this subject with some pictures of the issue, at least on the old frames.
http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=20764.60

Craig

[JCZ]

Like Howie has said, if there still using the same basic glob of rubber to support the swingarm pivot bolt, then I would think they would have the same problems as the old frame design.
Craig

Again, nobody with an 09/10 MY bagger is reporting the same issue.  Of course, many of us that had the earlier years of baggers (my 04 SEEG) had the rubber mount but didn't have the issue.....but with the 09/10, nobody is reporting it.  Go ride one Talon.......then get your check book out.  

There's a reason for all the raves about the handling on the 09/10 MY and I don't think it's because the MoCo is saving money.  I could care less that they're saving money.....it's the great handling compared to earlier years.  Even compared to my 04 SEEG.....that I didn't have a handling problem with.  The difference in handling could be compared to a Ford or Chevy compared to BMW.  Go find out for yourselves.  Remember, as I reported in Terrie's 09 Street Glide thread, I didn't plan on buying a new bike..........till I experienced the ride difference first hand.  Many others here have reported the same thing.

[SBB]

Again, nobody with an 09/10 MY bagger is reporting the same issue.  Of course, many of us that had the earlier years of baggers (my 04 SEEG) had the rubber mount but didn't have the issue.....but with the 09/10, nobody is reporting it.  Go ride one Talon.......then get your check book out.  

There's a reason for all the raves about the handling on the 09/10 MY and I don't think it's because the MoCo is saving money.  I could care less that they're saving money.....it's the great handling compared to earlier years.  Even compared to my 04 SEEG.....that I didn't have a handling problem with.  The difference in handling could be compared to a Ford or Chevy compared to BMW.  Go find out for yourselves.  Remember, as I reported in Terrie's 09 Street Glide thread, I didn't plan on buying a new bike..........till I experienced the ride difference first hand.  Many others here have reported the same thing.

JC

I agree.
On any day I have the luxury of riding an 01 SERG, an 03Classic with Traxxion and hands down, the 09 SEUC with no suspension mods rides and handle's better than any of the earlier bikes. For me the new frame trumps any issues and or concerns I have with that frame being wrapped around a 110 motor.
JMHO w/ 22K on the 09 and it's 13 months old!

SBB

[RedDevil]

Don't forget, that along with the new rear end, they've added the fourth engine mount too and that has helped also.  I pressed my SESG this past weekend on some twisties and I couldn't get that rear end to budge a bit.  (But then again, I've only gotten the 07 SEUC to do it once, and I think that was because there was some sand on the corner   )

[TIF2]

 (...... and I think that was because there was some sand on the corner   )

I would gladly pay $400 for a mod that would prevent that from ever happening 
I read a write-up once that a thing called "taxes" was supposed to prevent it, but that mod turned out to be completely un-reliable and down-right dangerous.

[09S/E roadglide]

I have an 09 with traxxion and bitubos. This weekend I was in north GA and we were on 515 headed north. Not much Traffic and we were playin around, I was at about 110mph and started to lean into a corner, not a bad one but at 110 I did have to lean in. The bike went into a severe wobble and there wasnt anthing I could do except ride it out ! Now Im not sure what caused this but my back tire has started to cup and i havent had the TQ in the neck checked yet but it was enough to scare the crud out of me. I never had a problem with this bike before and had it in that same situation on the same road several times before. Im taking it in this week and HOPEFULLY a new back tire and I find out the neck is loose. But just short of that Ill just have to say I was beyond the bike limits and I found that line !   Yes I can assure you that you could not hammer a needle in my hinney !!!    Ill let yall know next week.

[TIF2]

Now Im not sure what caused this but my back tire has started to cup and i havent had the TQ in the neck checked yet but it was enough to scare the crud out of me.

Glad you were able to ride that one out!!

Interesting that you bring that up about the front end, the same American Bagger issue had another tech article where they installed a Custom Cycle Engineering upper tree to address the front end:



Goes down the same line as the True-Track article .... according to them it addresses a significant issue, but who knows?
Price of admission goes up for the front end ... $775 for the CCE tree and labor is a lot more intensive.

Guess it boils down to perceived value of the owner ... if it is worth it to them, then both are a worth-while addition.

[Hoist!]

Interesting Note in HD-M1246 Service Bulletin titled "2009 Touring Steering Head Bearing Adjustment"

"NOTE
A steering head that is too tight can interfere with the
vehicle's ability to absorb a weave. A steering head that is
too loose can interfere with the vehicle's ability to absorb a
wobble."

Something to pay attention to here. Neck bearing adjustment plays a major role in these bike's setups. Don't assume yours is correct. The only way to know that's correct is to have it adjusted properly. If have issues, start there first!

Hoist!

[DESERTBEAR54]

Bagger Brace is much cheaper and works good on my Ultra.

[09S/E roadglide]

Interesting Note in HD-M1246 Service Bulletin titled "2009 Touring Steering Head Bearing Adjustment"

"NOTE
A steering head that is too tight can interfere with the
vehicle's ability to absorb a weave. A steering head that is
too loose can interfere with the vehicle's ability to absorb a
wobble."

Something to pay attention to here. Neck bearing adjustment plays a major role in these bike's setups. Don't assume yours is correct. The only way to know that's correct is to have it adjusted properly. If have issues, start there first!

Hoist!

we hope to start there first

[Rooster]

Terry, we're talking about the 09 and 10 baggers.  I think we all agree that some bikes of the previous years did have an issue. 

[Talon]

Again, nobody with an 09/10 MY bagger is reporting the same issue.  Of course, many of us that had the earlier years of baggers (my 04 SEEG) had the rubber mount but didn't have the issue.....but with the 09/10, nobody is reporting it.  Go ride one Talon.......then get your check book out.  

There's a reason for all the raves about the handling on the 09/10 MY and I don't think it's because the MoCo is saving money.  I could care less that they're saving money.....it's the great handling compared to earlier years.  Even compared to my 04 SEEG.....that I didn't have a handling problem with.  The difference in handling could be compared to a Ford or Chevy compared to BMW.  Go find out for yourselves.  Remember, as I reported in Terrie's 09 Street Glide thread, I didn't plan on buying a new bike..........till I experienced the ride difference first hand.  Many others here have reported the same thing.

JC, tell my wife I need another bike!  

I'm not saying that the new frame isn't better, but did they do something to the rubber bushings? I can't find anything in any of the spec's. Maybe they changed them, did something like the Sta-bro bushings did for the older bushings?? The addition of another mount may also help.

On the older frame I notice it more on long sweepers, and low to medium speeds. I think the harder turns pin it as far as the bushings will allow twist, so you feel it going into and out of the turn, but not as much weaving through the turn.  

Craig

[Mr. Wizard]

I have an 09 with traxxion and bitubos. This weekend I was in north GA and we were on 515 headed north. Not much Traffic and we were playin around, I was at about 110mph and started to lean into a corner, not a bad one but at 110 I did have to lean in. The bike went into a severe wobble and there wasnt anthing I could do except ride it out ! Now Im not sure what caused this but my back tire has started to cup and i havent had the TQ in the neck checked yet but it was enough to scare the crud out of me. I never had a problem with this bike before and had it in that same situation on the same road several times before. Im taking it in this week and HOPEFULLY a new back tire and I find out the neck is loose. But just short of that Ill just have to say I was beyond the bike limits and I found that line !   Yes I can assure you that you could not hammer a needle in my hinney !!!    Ill let yall know next week.

I hope it wasn't that first long left hand sweep past the BP and the church on the right... at 100+ you'll find yourself in the clouds looking down on the mess below. Was taking Wolf Pen two weekends ago, the leaves were still all over the road and the two hairpin turns were wet also. Was a mess. While taking 5 at the C store across from Two we saw an ambulance and a county leo all lit up heading back the way we came. Hope everyone was OK.

Again I would like to note... on my 07 UC I had wobble until I added a fourth mounting point. It just happened to be a True Track. Had the same experience on my 06 RK. I'm sure the other brands are just as good or maybe better but that is what I have. It made a great deal of difference as better than half of my riding is in the mountains. I with you guys about the new frame changes and don't feel it is necessary to add anything but I have a grand total of 250 miles on my SESG.   Is it necessary for some of the older model Harley baggers? I think so and still enjoy my older bikes very much.

Have a great week everyone, I'm headed back to the mountains after this rain.







 

[JCZ]

JC, tell my wife I need another bike!  

I'm not saying that the new frame isn't better, but did they do something to the rubber bushings? I can't find anything in any of the spec's. Maybe they changed them, did something like the Sta-bro bushings did for the older bushings?? The addition of another mount may also help.

On the older frame I notice it more on long sweepers, and low to medium speeds. I think the harder turns pin it as far as the bushings will allow twist, so you feel it going into and out of the turn, but not as much weaving through the turn.  

Craig

Other than the 4th mount, I'm not sure what, exactly, the differences are.  I just know it is a different motorcycle.  Everybody used to comment on how great my SEEG handled compared to theirs and it did handle quite well.  Jim commented once "man, your bike rides like it's on a rail".  None of that rear steer, weave or any of that stuff that I'd see others doing the hula dance on, in the twisties.  

But as good as it was/is on my SEEG.......that's nothing compared to my wife's 09 Street Glide (that convinced me to buy new) or my 10 SESG.  You take one for a ride, you'll not need me to convince her you need a new bike........you'll be convincing her.  Or do like a friend did.....just buy it then beg for forgiveness.

[Talon]

Other than the 4th mount, I'm not sure what, exactly, the differences are.  I just know it is a different motorcycle.  Everybody used to comment on how great my SEEG handled compared to theirs and it did handle quite well.  Jim commented once "man, your bike rides like it's on a rail".  None of that rear steer, weave or any of that stuff that I'd see others doing the hula dance on, in the twisties.  

But as good as it was/is on my SEEG.......that's nothing compared to my wife's 09 Street Glide (that convinced me to buy new) or my 10 SESG.  You take one for a ride, you'll not need me to convince her you need a new bike........you'll be convincing her.  Or do like a friend did.....just buy it then beg for forgiveness.

The old, "It's easier to get forgiveness than permission"?

I notice it more on the wide sweepers than on the tight twisties, when I'm in the mountains on the tight roads I barley notice it. Like I said, I think the hard turns push the rubber bushings to the limit, and hold it there until you start to straighten up. If I ride on the highway with wide sweeping turns, like I70, I feel the back moving around. Once, after a long ride, I was tired, coming back on I70 near Vail and change lanes with out trying or wanting to! Good thing there was no one in the other lane!

Craig

[Hoist!]

Glad you were able to ride that one out!!

Interesting that you bring that up about the front end, the same American Bagger issue had another tech article where they installed a Custom Cycle Engineering upper tree to address the front end:



Goes down the same line as the True-Track article .... according to them it addresses a significant issue, but who knows?
Price of admission goes up for the front end ... $775 for the CCE tree and labor is a lot more intensive.

Guess it boils down to perceived value of the owner ... if it is worth it to them, then both are a worth-while addition.

Interesting setup. So I called CCE and discussed it with them. This setup uses longer upper fork tubes to accommodate the "normal" way fork tubes get mounted in the upper tree for much better support and rigidity. It comes with the upper tree, new upper tubes, and a new dampener. You basically need to rebuid the front end with this mod. Perfect time to convert to Traxxion. I still need to check with Traxxion now to determine what needs to be done to the AK-20 to work with this setup. Might be considering this when doing my winter work! Stay tuned. I'll let youze know!

Hoist!