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[jau flyer]

Hey everyone,

I hit a deer on my '05 banana week ago Saturday in MS on my way back to TN. Luckily, I wasn't hurt and walked away with a few scrapes and bruises.

My bike was totaled and my local dealer says that insurance companies typically pay out "retail" value from NADA and generally add about $1000 for extras.  This value for NADA and Kelly Blue Book are within a couple hundred dollars, which was right around $19400.00

So the adjuster called me today and says that based on 3rd party research (a 3rd party is hired to do the research" claimed that the value of my bike is $15400.00. With tax and title added the total value is around 17k.  To says the least I was a little pissed. The adjuster says that NADA is hard to apply to bikes because of this and because of that.  I am with State Farm and have been for years. The estimated repair costs was over $22000.00.

So How can I argue reasonably that the bike is worth more than they are offering or at least get it closer to NADA.?  The bike was severely damaged on both sides and the frame was bent.

Those of you who have had similar incidents with bikes would like to know how you negotiated to get a fair price. I have my eyes, and deposits on a 2009 CVO road glide and need to get this resolved before moving ahead.

Great thanks in advance.

Thanks.

[tweeter13]

Not sure if calling your agent and explaining to them that your bike is a CVO and ex paint to them what that is.  The adjuster may have no idea that they are limited production bikes.

Or tell them that if they are only going to give you that much for your bike you want to keep it so you may take the parts off of this bike and put them on your next bike.    Not sure either would work or not but just a thought.   I will ask some of my friends in the insurance industry and see if they will give me some other ideas

[Tannehill Kid]

Need to check with state law and see what they use as a guide in a law suit.  In LA they use NADA on cars.  When customers call me for info on what their car/truck is worth they always call back and want to know how I knew what the insurance co was going to offer.  It's sad when your car/truck is worth more totaled than as a trade in. 

[hd-dude]

Before agreeing to any payout amount you need to do your homework. Check local ads for the same bike with the same or similar accessories as yours. Find the average price that these are selling for then go from there. If you have a hard time finding local ads then spread further out to collect the information.

[LovemyCVOgirl]

Find other MC's just like yours that have comparable miles posted for sale on the Internet that show a higher value than what they are offering. Print the page and give it to them!   

[Tru-Blu]

Sorry to hear about your accident, but glad you're ok.  The bike can be replaced - you can't. 

I do hope that you can make something work out with the insurance company.  It sucks that you have to have it, and normally pay a decent amount for good coverage - and then don't get that coverage when you actually need it.  Just about every insurance company is trying to pay the least it legally can in any claim.   

[jau flyer]

Tweet13

Thanks for insight and please check with your friends if you can. 

Thanks.

[jau flyer]

T-kid....

I will ask a coworker whose wife is an attorney and see if she can tell me what the law is. Appreciate the tip...

[jau flyer]

HD Dude....

I have been checking out '05 costs as you say and was thinking about printing the adds and sending.  This whole thing has been up in arms and I don't plan to agree to payout until I am happy. 

Thanks for the help...

[smkymtnboy]

  that sounds just like state farm!! impossible people to deal with!!!! thats all i have to say about that!

[jau flyer]

while we are on the subject, who do you guys use to cover your MC   i am seriously thinking after all this has settled, i am going to look for a new insurer. like Farm Bureau.for cars. home. bike. etc/

again, all help here is greatly appreciated.

thanks.

[Tru-Blu]

I use Farm Bureau for auto/home, but they don't have their own carrier for motorcycles. The cheapest for the coverage I wanted was Progressive.

[King2013]

  that sounds just like state farm!! impossible people to deal with!!!! thats all i have to say about that!

+1
that's the same insurance company that is trying to say I'm some what responsible for being broadsided.
good luck with those assbags.

[spada84]

When my bike was totaled in a flood, State Farm made an offer.  I refused it, and got a letter from my dealer explaining what the bike was worth, with some supporting ads.  They offered a higher amount and we settled.  It's just business.  I thought that they were fairly easy to deal with.

[D-N-D]

Ask the dealer that sold you the bike to help with a letter stating the resale value of the bike with a list of bikes that sold in that range.

[porthole]

Good to hear you came out relatively unscathed.

In New Jersey we have a consumer available Insurance and Banking Commission. And they have a lot of pull over insurance companies. If your state has one I would start there with a complaint.

After that, do as others, start looking of comparables
Tell you adjuster you don't want a settlement, you want a replacement, identical equal model.

Remember, if 9 out of 10 customers don't argue the claim they are well ahead. The 10th who fights and gets made whole still keeps them well ahead of the game.

A little off topic, but food for thought.
I work part time for a boat towing company (BoatUS) We do probably a 100 or so partial and full sinkings a year.

There are insurance companies we work with so the customer doesn't have to deal with all the issues related with the loss, and there are those that we do not deal with.

SF is on the top (just below Aetna) of the "does not play well with others" list.

When a customer calls us with a sinking, and SF is the insurance, we give them a cash price and tell them it is up to them to "try and collect" on the loss.

[grc]

When the insurance company totals it they are supposed to pay current retail less any deductible.  Standard practice in most states I'm familiar with is to use industry guides like NADA to determine value.  And don't forget that those values get adjusted for condition and mileage; if the bike was low miles and immaculate condition you would add to the listed retail value.

I'd suggest you contact your state attorney general's office, or whatever office that's responsible for regulating the insurance industry in your state.  Way too many insurance adjusters try to rape customers based on the time honored theory used by many companies (like Harley) that the average consumer is as dumb as a rock and can be jerked around and screwed out of what is rightfully theirs.  Get your ducks in a row and then go over the adjusters head and lay the facts out for his boss.  I had to do that with a homeowners claim a few years ago and the supervisor quickly corrected the BS the adjuster tried to pull.

Good luck.

Jerry

[silkyjb]

Sorry to hear about the bike. I hit a deer a couple years ago with similar  (good) results as to life and limb. I have been using Foremost Insurance for years and can say without hesitating...they are so easy to work with and never question the estimates that I have provided to them. Just my 2cents worth.

[jau flyer]

Hey everyone,

Thanks for all the great advice and comments. I put some information together today and sent to my adjuster and copied my agent. He called me later in the day and I laid it out on the line with the facts, NADA, ETC,

He used to be an adjuster himself a few years ago before he switched to being an agent.  We had a nice chat and said it should get cleared up in the next couple of days. I got an email reply from the adjuster before I left work and he said the information should be reviewed and decided in a day or two.

In the meantime, I am going to continue to get my ducks in a row as others have said so I can go beyond the norm to get this resolved.

I will let you guys know how it turns out. Again, really really appreciate the insight and thoughts pertaining to my situation.

Flyer

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

Who cares what they say. Take the bike to a dealer to have the repairs done. They will  use all HD parts, be able to show who ever what it really costs. As well this is SOP.. They want to save money, if the repairs cost more the shop will call them and get a admen to cover the next parts. Being I own a shop I deal with this as little as I can. I almost never do crash work for this very reason. I let the dealers take care of it as the hassle is more than its worth to me.

As for State farm I have them for every toy I own , never had a issue even with this thing getting hit and they took care of that as well. Great to deal with.

[Boatman]

I guess I'm on an island by myself on this one, but if State Farm offered me $17,000 on an 05 SEEG I would have jumped all over it.  No individual would give you $19,000 for that bike.  Look at the ones that have been for sale on here.  You would be lucky to get $16,500 from a private buyer at this time.

Glad you are ok and hope it all works out for you.

[tazmun]

I guess I'm on an island by myself on this one, but if State Farm offered me $17,000 on an 05 SEEG I would have jumped all over it.  No individual would give you $19,000 for that bike.  Look at the ones that have been for sale on here.  You would be lucky to get $16,500 from a private buyer at this time.

Glad you are ok and hope it all works out for you.

I  have to agree with you on this one. Base on what bikes are worth today, I think your better off having the bike stolen, or totaled to get more for it.  I'm just glad your ok, most aren't that lucky to walk away with little injuries.

[Chief2505]

Being an independent insurance agent I have seen this before.

Most companies any more do not use Kelly or NADA, they use past sells and comparisons. What we have found is that most of the vehicles that the companies use for the comparison are not the identical vehicle. (ie.. you have 4 WD and they are looking at a 2 WD) It is possible the adjuster is not looking at CVO models or they are higher mileage than yours or have less equipment.

I cannot say how the Snake farm policy works concerning accessories but with Progressive, if you have a ton of accessories on your bike you need to add that value to your policy for them to be covered. they will also require proof of these accessories and their costs.

Most people believe their vehicle is worth more than what anyone else has on the market, that is just human nature but it is not always the truth.

Best thing you did was doing your research and getting your agent involved. After all your agent is supposed to work for you, not the company.

Good luck!

[grc]

I guess I'm on an island by myself on this one, but if State Farm offered me $17,000 on an 05 SEEG I would have jumped all over it.  No individual would give you $19,000 for that bike.  Look at the ones that have been for sale on here.  You would be lucky to get $16,500 from a private buyer at this time.

Glad you are ok and hope it all works out for you.

That's true, but it's also true with most cars and trucks as well.  Book retail reflects reported transaction prices by dealers, not private sellers, so that accounts for some of the difference.  Then there is the time lag in the data used by the various companies like NADA, KBB, Black Book, etc.  The only way to make the system somewhat fair is to have a standard statistically based source for values, to keep the insurance folks from finding that one guy who took a quick sale for $4k under book just to get out from under and then use that as the basis for their offer to a different client.  Without an independent determination of value the entire system would be skewed even further in favor of the insurance companies.

The sad part is that the actual companies aren't necessarily the bad guys in all of this.  Many people I've known with State Farm for homes and auto's sing their praises from the rooftops.  Local neighbors who went through a severe hail storm with me about 9 years ago and had State Farm got faster and better settlements than I did, and received checks immediately.  My insurance company's local adjuster screwed me around, forcing me to spend time going over her head to the boss to get action, and then didn't send me a check until all work had been completed and made the check out to both me and the contractor who did the work to supposedly keep me from just taking the money and not having repairs made.  My point is that it is often the local yokels who cause the biggest problems, not the home office.  Someone in Peoria may have a totally different experience with insurance company A than someone in Flagstaff for instance, even though the situations are identical.  That is a big part of the problem in my estimation.

Jerry

[CVODON]

Everyone is way overthinking this, All you have to do is show them why it is worth more than they say. Wasting your breath to tell them, you merely need to get your reciepts together for your parts you added and  with comparison bikes for sale with prices that can be verified and you are good to go. It is the guys who get loud and demanding that have nothing to back up the hot air they are throwing out that get ripped off.  Stay calm and act like an adult and I will pay you what you have coming, raise your voice, tell me "this is how it going to go" and you have a hard educated fight on your hands. And yes this is what I do for a living. Also I am not aware of anyone who uses NADA or Black on a bike, most use CCC or one of the other pay services that do quotes/comparisons. That way when the adj gives you a value it is verified and ready for court if needed, but once again just show them why it is worth more, show them on paper.

[Glenncarp]

Hey everyone,

I hit a deer on my '05 banana week ago Saturday in MS on my way back to TN. Luckily, I wasn't hurt and walked away with a few scrapes and bruises.

My bike was totaled and my local dealer says that insurance companies typically pay out "retail" value from NADA and generally add about $1000 for extras.  This value for NADA and Kelly Blue Book are within a couple hundred dollars, which was right around $19400.00

So the adjuster called me today and says that based on 3rd party research (a 3rd party is hired to do the research" claimed that the value of my bike is $15400.00. With tax and title added the total value is around 17k.  To says the least I was a little pissed. The adjuster says that NADA is hard to apply to bikes because of this and because of that.  I am with State Farm and have been for years. The estimated repair costs was over $22000.00.

So How can I argue reasonably that the bike is worth more than they are offering or at least get it closer to NADA.?  The bike was severely damaged on both sides and the frame was bent.

Those of you who have had similar incidents with bikes would like to know how you negotiated to get a fair price. I have my eyes, and deposits on a 2009 CVO road glide and need to get this resolved before moving ahead.

Great thanks in advance.

Thanks.

I am an adjuster in Florida, I do property claims, but I am licensed for all lines. I would call your Carrier directly, the Adjuster is probably an independent and I would tell the Carrier that you will not accept the Adjusters pricing and present them with the repair estimate. Tell them you want the NADA price or you will seek representation from an attorney. I am not suggesting that you lie, but if I were an auto adjuster and a bike was totaled, I certainly would expect injuries to the rider, you may want to suggest to the Carrier that with all of their playing, you are starting to feel aches from the accident and you will have to alert your attorney to them if they make you choose that route.

[Glenncarp]

Who cares what they say. Take the bike to a dealer to have the repairs done. They will  use all HD parts, be able to show who ever what it really costs. As well this is SOP.. They want to save money, if the repairs cost more the shop will call them and get a admen to cover the next parts. Being I own a shop I deal with this as little as I can. I almost never do crash work for this very reason. I let the dealers take care of it as the hassle is more than its worth to me.

As for State farm I have them for every toy I own , never had a issue even with this thing getting hit and they took care of that as well. Great to deal with.

No good, insurance policies all give the carrier the right to repair or replace, whatever is cheaper

[Midnight Rider]

As has been stated, a totaled vehicle should be worth what it would take to replace it at typical retail costs, not from a private seller.  NADA or Blue Book value from a dealership is what they will go by, with adjustments for condition and mileage. Stick to your guns and they will do what's right without you spending money on lawyers.

[jau flyer]

Hello everybody,

We'll after submitting receipts and sending over a copy of the NADA and Kelly BB, the adjuster called me back today and only offered a thousand (1k) over the original settlement. I asked him to provide me with the two shops used for comparative market analysis and one was Longshore Cycles in Northern AL, which is a metric dealership
and the other was Motorsports of Athens. Both of these are hundreds miles from my location in east TN, the Mecca of motorcycling.

They didn't use any dealers in Knoxville! Nashville! or Johnson City. I thought that was interesting. He wants me to release the bike, but I told him the # he needs to come up with in order for me to sign the release for the bike from the local dealer.  Remember, the bike IS totaled. And they seem to be in a big hurry for me to let them remove it from the Harley dealer where I have it.

I did have an injury to my thumb an saw my family doctor the other day. I have to see an orthopedic surgeon next week, which I have not mentioned yet up to this point. And my hip suffered a rather interesting bruise. I have pictures of that. So as the one gentleman stated, and as much as I hate to do it,start to play the injury card. My doctor visit is documented, so if push comes to shove I guess I may have to look at an alternative.

I am not asking for anything unreasonable. Their present offer WITH TAX AND TITLE is still under book value.

He never called me back, so I don't know if that is good or bad.i will wait until early next week and decide from their my. Ext course of action.

Again, lots of great insight and logic for you all. I will let you know how I make out next week.

'Flyer

[Chief2505]

The injury card will not work in this case. Who are you going to sue? Yourself? you cannot do that, well you can but your insurance policy will not defend nor pay you. Now if there was another party involved the injury card works very well as leverage but not in the case of a comprehensive claim.

[Saljemar]

Ask to talk to his supervisor.  If that does not work go to his supervisor.  Keep track of names.

[scottt]

I guess I'm on an island by myself on this one, but if State Farm offered me $17,000 on an 05 SEEG I would have jumped all over it.  No individual would give you $19,000 for that bike.  Look at the ones that have been for sale on here.  You would be lucky to get $16,500 from a private buyer at this time.

Glad you are ok and hope it all works out for you.

I agree with Boatman on this, happy to see you OK. I traded-in a 2007 SE Ultra with low miles and perfect condition. I was paid $17,000 for the bike and was happy to get it. The dealer put the bike on their lot and asked $20,000 for the bike, it has been sitting unsold for 6 weeks. Just because some dealers ask high prices for the older bikes does not mean they actually sell for that number. They are just hoping someone walks in that does not really know.

Kelly Blue Book and NADA book values have one thing in common.....they don't buy cars or motorcycles. They simply publish guides and more times than not, the prices posted are incorrect. Generally higher than actual selling prices. I think they do it as a way of helping dealers finance or floor inventory as banks use the book values to determine what they will put up to "floor" that motorcycle or car. Most dealers use the banks money rather than their own, they prefer to pay monthly interest or flooring when rates are low like right now.

Ask yourself this; when was the last time you saw average run of the mill cars selling at dealerships for retail book values? My experience has been that more sell closer to the trade-in value than retail value.

Best of luck to ya, just happy to see you survived.

Scott

[CVODON]

Sounds like you are very close, NADA is $18600 for a perfect one @ retail. Is yours perfect? If not sounds like you are there now.

[jau flyer]

Hello everybody.

I wanted to take a minute to thank everyone for their input. advice, opinions, and suggestions. I settled with State Farm Monday and i am happy with their proposal.

i stood my ground. presented the facts. and i didn't have to talk to any supervisors, or superiors.

i am looking at a 2009 SE Road Glide and will be picking up the bike this weekend. My wife is excited. I admit i am a little nervous, but the two test rides with my wife were uneventful.

So thanks again. i am looking forward to asking more questions about a Road Glide instead of ole yeller who was taken by the salvage co. yesterday!!!

'flyer

[phato1]

Glad you reached an acceptable settlement with the insurance, and congrats on the purchase of the new ride.

of course photos will be required once you pick it up.

[jau flyer]

Hey Thanks.....

I will post some pics this weekend. I learned a lot about adjusters, and insurance in general, with this episode. This is my first major claim in 30+ years...