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Author Topic: 131" Build (Harley Kit) - 2021 CVO Road Glide  (Read 1444 times)

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Phaedrus

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131" Build (Harley Kit) - 2021 CVO Road Glide
« on: October 23, 2021, 01:13:55 PM »

These are just my impressions of the Harley 131" kit upgrade, as installed on my 2021 117" CVO Road Glide.  I've put 1,000 miles on the bike with this 131 build, in the past week.  And, I had it dyno'd today just for curiosity to see the numbers (it was just VE tuned by me on the street, it was not tuned on the dyno or remapped for AFR).

I put 3,000 miles on the 117 CVO before the upgrade, then had my dealer do the 131" Harley kit upgrade.  I did not dyno the 117.  It rode well, but I didn't take the time to dyno it as a before comparison.

This is a pure HD build.  I had the dealer install the HD 131" kit including the HD header pipe.  I had already put the HD 4.5" Street Cannon slip-ons on the bike for use with this build.  I used the HD Screamin Eagle Street Tuner for tuning, and I did the tuning on the street using the HD Smart Tune function. 

So this 131" build is about as conservative as it gets using only the HD parts and dealer work.  I wanted to keep the factory warranty - and did with the HD 131 upgrade program. 

I wanted a good engine tone but not a loud bike.  It sounds healthy but is not obnoxiously loud.

And, I wanted to be able to tweak the VEs and have the finished map in my hand at the end of tuning.  I've done a couple hours of data collection on the street and VE mapping looks good.

The 131 does not seem to get excessively hot when stuck in stop and go rush-hour traffic on the interstate.  In fact, the heat out of the 131 as tuned with Street Tune seems less than the 117 from the factory, when stuck sitting on it in rush-hour stop-and-go traffic.

End result - about 120 HP and 135 ft-lbs, as in the attached dyno chart.  This is with simple VE mapping and keeping the HD EPA friendly 14.4 AFR at WOT.  It is a very ridable bike that pulls strong to 6800 rpm.  I'm satisfied!

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hogsty

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131" Build (Harley Kit) - 2021 CVO Road Glide
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2021, 01:20:35 PM »

Not bad for an all H-D build with no dyno.

I’d work on that torque dip.  It’s right where you (I) don’t want it.
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Phaedrus

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Re: 131" Build (Harley Kit) - 2021 CVO Road Glide
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2021, 04:57:16 PM »

Not bad for an all H-D build with no dyno.

I’d work on that torque dip.  It’s right where you (I) don’t want it.

Thanks!

The dip really isn't that bad.  It is still over 125 ft-lbs through that area.  And there is only so much one can do with the Street Tuner.  Plus, I never really spend time under 2500 at WOT when running through the gears.

But, no matter what, that was the first thing I looked at.  I went back to the VE tables and looked where I had Smart Tune corrections from my data runs.  That area at 2000, 2250, 2500 hadn't gotten much data collection yet.  So I added 3 to 5 points to the VE at those RPMs and above 40% throttle.  Between that and the adaptive fuel corrections, I'd expect I've done as much as the HD ECM will allow, without going to an aftermarket tuner.  For now, I'll keep the warranty and ridability that I have.

Next stop, the quarter mile track.... :)
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tjb

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Re: 131" Build (Harley Kit) - 2021 CVO Road Glide
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2021, 12:05:30 PM »

Do you have a dead spot just off idle?  How are you adding fuel to the ve tables?
« Last Edit: October 25, 2021, 12:07:36 PM by tjb »
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Phaedrus

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Re: 131" Build (Harley Kit) - 2021 CVO Road Glide
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2021, 12:09:14 PM »

Do you have a deaad spot just off idle?

No dead spot off idle.

If anything I have to be careful about not letting the clutch out too quickly so I don't launch fast on every start.
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tjb

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Re: 131" Build (Harley Kit) - 2021 CVO Road Glide
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2021, 12:12:18 PM »

HD is telling me I just need to live with it until epa "approved" the fix.  Tbh its dangerous to ride right now
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Phaedrus

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Re: 131" Build (Harley Kit) - 2021 CVO Road Glide
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2021, 12:44:10 PM »

HD is telling me I just need to live with it until epa "approved" the fix.  Tbh its dangerous to ride right now

I can't imagine EPA letting HD fatten the fueling.

Are you using the HD 131 kit headpipe? And did you flash it with the 131 map and tune the VEs?  Also what exhaust cans and baffle are you using?

The build is pretty plug and play.   WOT HP and torque numbers are reasonable, and my low and mid throttle response is strong and smooth starting off idle.

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tjb

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Re: 131" Build (Harley Kit) - 2021 CVO Road Glide
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2021, 12:57:59 PM »

HD dealer installed the 131 kit. Pipes, hd programmer/ not tuner. as there is not tuning capablilities, etc.  Im using rinehart bdx40 mufflers.  Customer care rep says there is a known problem, but go ahead and keep riding.... Dealer had had the bike off and on, a week this time
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Phaedrus

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Re: 131" Build (Harley Kit) - 2021 CVO Road Glide
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2021, 01:14:22 PM »

HD dealer installed the 131 kit. Pipes, hd programmer/ not tuner. as there is not tuning capabliliqties, etc.  Im using rinehart bdx40 mufflers.  Customer care rep says there is a known problem, but go ahead and keep riding.... Dealer had had the will let them ash bike off and on, a week this time

The Screamin Eagle Pro Street Tuner will let your dealer flash in the 131 map, and it allows tuning the VE tables for fuel mapping.  You can't do anything with AFR to peak power, but you can smooth out the throttle with VE tuning.

If your dealer can't use Smart Tune on their dyno to check the VEs, you might want to try another shop.

And, a tech smart rider can use Smart Tune on the street to do some pretty complete VE tuning.

My dealer has done a bunch of 131 builds and isn't aware of any "known problem." And my build is strong with no stumbles.
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Pan1

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Re: 131" Build (Harley Kit) - 2021 CVO Road Glide
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2021, 11:35:30 PM »

On my 131 build I used SE kit but used Fullsac headpipe and 2.25 baffles. Also used a SE ported intake. No torque dip and pulls strong from off idle to rev limiter. My HD mechanic adjusted  what he could within the limits of the SE tuner and auto tune but could not change  the air fuel ratio. I do not know if  he knew a trick or not but the rev limiter is now 6,500  - dyno tested at 500 miles and then again at 1,000. Chart was posted  here several months ago. 131HP and 137 TQ. Runs great but exhaust pipes run hot and the air temp out of the twin cooled radiators is much hotter on my legs than than I would like.  Its crazy but even in stop and go traffic the bike runs perfect, just hot.

Prior to the M8, I had a 117 Twin Cam with the HD kit and adjustable SE race tuner which had 117 HP and 127 TQ. The M8 is much smoother and just way more power down low.
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hrdtail78

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Re: 131" Build (Harley Kit) - 2021 CVO Road Glide
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2021, 11:58:10 AM »

The HD strategy is not to have target of 14.4 at WOT.  There is PE mode.  Or Power Enrichment mode.  If this is set richer than the target table.  Which it is.  The ECM will shoot for the richer target.  The SE tuner gives you no access to this table.  What makes it active and when it becomes deactivated.  BUT it is usually set up to come on with time, throttle position, and a certain RPM.  This is nothing new in the car world and like TQ base tuning.  Has entered the HD world because car guys are the ones being employed.

If wanting a better understanding of PE mode.  You can look at the after market tuners calibrations and get better idea of how it is set up.  If you look at your log of the dyno run.  I would bet you would see some throttle closure or not holding a solid kpa through out the run.
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Phaedrus

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Re: 131" Build (Harley Kit) - 2021 CVO Road Glide
« Reply #11 on: November 28, 2021, 09:56:13 AM »

The HD strategy is not to have target of 14.4 at WOT.  There is PE mode.  Or Power Enrichment mode.  If this is set richer than the target table.  Which it is.  The ECM will shoot for the richer target.  The SE tuner gives you no access to this table.  What makes it active and when it becomes deactivated.  BUT it is usually set up to come on with time, throttle position, and a certain RPM.  This is nothing new in the car world and like TQ base tuning.  Has entered the HD world because car guys are the ones being employed.

If wanting a better understanding of PE mode.  You can look at the after market tuners calibrations and get better idea of how it is set up.  If you look at your log of the dyno run.  I would bet you would see some throttle closure or not holding a solid kpa through out the run.

In the November 2021, Version 21.003, update to the HD SE Performance Tuner, HD provides access to the PE table (at least in some maps, e.g. the 2021 Touring 131 Stage 4), which HD refers to as the Lambda Performance Enrichment table.  The RPM limit can now be adjusted in (at least some) maps also.
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hrdtail78

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Re: 131" Build (Harley Kit) - 2021 CVO Road Glide
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2021, 12:30:52 PM »

In the November 2021, Version 21.003, update to the HD SE Performance Tuner, HD provides access to the PE table (at least in some maps, e.g. the 2021 Touring 131 Stage 4), which HD refers to as the Lambda Performance Enrichment table.  The RPM limit can now be adjusted in (at least some) maps also.

Thank you. I wasn't aware of the update.   Got it and I can see it now.
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