Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[hd-dude]

Yeah the problem with HD_Dude (aka Jim) is that not only is he good with ideas and helping to lighten the wallet, but he is a distributor for a lot of the goods. So, he makes it worse by offering expert advice and a discount to boot, he really sucks!

BTW Jim, think we'll get enough for the bearing support?

Gee thanks (I think)
On the GP, not sure. The demand has certainly dropped off. Partially due to reports of them causing vibrations. Out of the 16 in the initial go around 2 caused these problems. I need to see GP to remedy the 2 with issues so I'll see what I can do for a few more.

[porthole]

Gee thanks (I think)

All in good humor Jim.

Anyway, do you really think the support caused the vibration? And not that there was an underlying problem?

2 out out of 16 is a 12% failure rate, and at that rate the company will go broke! When you look at it, it looks so well made that you almost "want" to believe that it will work as promised.

[hd-dude]

All in good humor Jim.

Anyway, do you really think the support caused the vibration? And not that there was an underlying problem?

2 out out of 16 is a 12% failure rate, and at that rate the company will go broke! When you look at it, it looks so well made that you almost "want" to believe that it will work as promised.

Not sure but I know for a fact that when removed the problem with the vibrations went away. If you think about it it really does not make sense as the bracket only reenforces what is already there. But it has caused the problem to appear, it may have been there all along but not noticed.
12% would put them under for sure but we're only looking at a small sampling of the units. I have been told by GP and the designer of the product that there have only been 2-3 with the problem, now its 4-5. They have sold hundreds of these brackets over the last couple of years.

[Twolanerider]

Not sure but I know for a fact that when removed the problem with the vibrations went away. If you think about it it really does not make sense as the bracket only reenforces what is already there. But it has caused the problem to appear, it may have been there all along but not noticed.
12% would put them under for sure but we're only looking at a small sampling of the units. I have been told by GP and the designer of the product that there have only been 2-3 with the problem, now its 4-5. They have sold hundreds of these brackets over the last couple of years.

Having spoken with MJ about his, and looking at the parts, it really does seem that causation comes not from the addition of the bearing support but the loss of the compensator.  The compensator is masking a bit of something that would otherwise be going on anyway.

[hd-dude]

Having spoken with MJ about his, and looking at the parts, it really does seem that causation comes not from the addition of the bearing support but the loss of the compensator.  The compensator is masking a bit of something that would otherwise be going on anyway.

You may very well be correct Don, what that would mean then is that the problem exists in the drivetrain not the engine as the compensator allows the primary drive to be dampened a bit. You  would think with the chain drive that certainly hase a fair amount of give to it (especially with a hydrolic tensioner) it would not be noticed that the compensator was gone.

[Twolanerider]

You may very well be correct Don, what that would mean then is that the problem exists in the drivetrain not the engine as the compensator allows the primary drive to be dampened a bit. You  would think with the chain drive that certainly hase a fair amount of give to it (especially with a hydrolic tensioner) it would not be noticed that the compensator was gone.

I agree Jim.  But when all else is eliminated there's nothing else left.  If MJ's shop is to be believed the end of his crank wasn't swinging in large circles.  His vibration issue wasn't fixed to a specific engine RPM but instead a combination of RPM and gear (i.e., a driving range).  And the one part you lose is the compensator.  All tolled it forces you to assume this; at least until proven otherwise.

[hd-dude]

I agree Jim.  But when all else is eliminated there's nothing else left.  If MJ's shop is to be believed the end of his crank wasn't swinging in large circles.  His vibration issue wasn't fixed to a specific engine RPM but instead a combination of RPM and rear (i.e., a driving range).  And the one part you lose is the compensator.  All tolled it forces you to assume this; at least until proven otherwise.

Agreed, I wish there was a way to track down the root cause of the problem thought.

[Twolanerider]

Agreed, I wish there was a way to track down the root cause of the problem thought.

Specific answers and solutions are wonderful.  With the mix of parts/manufacturers we so often bring to the party we often make that very thing more difficult for ourselves though.  Selfishly I'm glad mine worked without issue (even though I got it before you started vending the part  ).  That doesn't mean the potential of a problem in a part now integral to my drivetrain isn't something that doesn't make a guy stop and go, "hmmmmmm?".

[hd-dude]

Specific answers and solutions are wonderful.  With the mix of parts/manufacturers we so often bring to the party we often make that very thing more difficult for ourselves though.  Selfishly I'm glad mine worked without issue (even though I got it before you started vending the part  ).  That doesn't mean the potential of a problem in a part now integral to my drivetrain isn't something that doesn't make a guy stop and go, "hmmmmmm?".

Yeah, I guess i'm selfish too

[porthole]

So Jim & Don,

Not knowing exactly what the GP assembly is and is replacing maybe we could rehash it a bit? My impression is that the main part is adding a solid support to the left side of the crank pin, is that correct?

I wasn't aware that it actually replaced or eliminated parts in the primary. I though it was in addition to.
I still like the idea of beefing up the "crank holders" and would still consider adding the parts. I trust that Jim will get to the root of all evil here and make it his life's mission, if not for at least an hour or two.

[porthole]

Jim -- since you are a global moderator, can you split this "hi-jacked" thread and make a new topic to finish the discussion on the support?

[hd-dude]

So Jim & Don,

Not knowing exactly what the GP assembly is and is replacing maybe we could rehash it a bit? My impression is that the main part is adding a solid support to the left side of the crank pin, is that correct?

I wasn't aware that it actually replaced or eliminated parts in the primary. I though it was in addition to.
I still like the idea of beefing up the "crank holders" and would still consider adding the parts. I trust that Jim will get to the root of all evil here and make it his life's mission, if not for at least an hour or two.

Duane;
You are correct that the brace does add a solid support to the left side of the crankshaft.The brace does eliminate the compensator. The comensator allows a slight amount of "give" between the crank and the primary engine sprocket. There really is no ryhme or reason why on a few bikes that these things cause vibrations. I have hashed this out with GP and Ron at RC Cycles several times and nobody really understands why it happens. I wish I had the answers.

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

I have looked at this product but really fail to see how it can replace the timken bearing. We do the up grades dailey and it i thought it would repalce the timken I would use it instead. We did use one on a 114 inch engine. I have a crate full of broken parts. The crank walked enough to eat the cam plate, oil pump, it broke the cam chains as well  we did not loose the case but other than that it is almost a total loss.

Now I amnot saying this is a poor part but after testing it on one engine hard to go back and try it again.   I would like to hear from others that have engines that are producing some big power with these and how they are holding up. ( over 125hp/tq) As I said if I can get them to hold up in smaller engines then maybe it is worth the money as a extra tiem on the small engines that we build

[porthole]

replace the timken bearing.

I see this referred to often, just what are we talking about here?

[Twolanerider]

Now I amnot saying this is a poor part but after testing it on one engine hard to go back and try it again.   I would like to hear from others that have engines that are producing some big power with these and how they are holding up. ( over 125hp/tq) As I said if I can get them to hold up in smaller engines then maybe it is worth the money as a extra tiem on the small engines that we build

Can't speak for others here but what you suggest is exactly what/how was my intent for the part.  If I'd been building something large (really anything much over 120hp as the "line in the sand" I had in my mind) than it would have been a no brainer; Timken.

Short of that, however, I wanted whatever more support could be gained without having to open up the bottomend.  In fact I chose motor options based on stability and not having to mess with the bottom end.  Always intended the support's use as a mid-range help.  Never considered it for a "large" effort.

[lucky1]

I have tyred to get an answer from Gp as to a support for the "B" engine. The web site indicates that it is to be offered soon. I've called and left phone no., and emailed about release date. So far NO reply.

[hd-dude]

I have tyred to get an answer from Gp as to a support for the "B" engine. The web site indicates that it is to be offered soon. I've called and left phone no., and emailed about release date. So far NO reply.

They will not be making one for the "b" motors.

[hd-dude]

I see this referred to often, just what are we talking about here?

In 2003 HD changed the main bearings in the crankcases to a cheaper less robust bearing. These cheaper bearings have been known to fail on motors producing hp and tq numbers up over 100+. (This is the reason that RC / GP came up with the bracket). The "timkin" conversion takes your cases and machines them to allow fitment of the older style more robust Timkin bearings. The tough part is that to do this you need to pull the motor and split the cases to have the work done.

[lucky1]

Thanks for the update.