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[Twolanerider]

Trying to figure out what my options are.  Does anyone know if after a six speed HD gear set has been installed, and the case ground to allow for it, if that case can then only accept the HD gear set?  I've done the six speed conversion previously and have just significantly shelled a tranny.  Wondering if I'm locked in to the HD 6 speed gear set because of the case grinding or can exercise other options if they might interest me?

[sadunbar]

Trying to figure out what my options are.  Does anyone know if after a six speed HD gear set has been installed, and the case ground to allow for it, if that case can then only accept the HD gear set?  I've done the six speed conversion previously and have just significantly shelled a tranny.  Wondering if I'm locked in to the HD 6 speed gear set because of the case grinding or can exercise other options if they might interest me?

Holy chit, Don...  I don't know the answer to your question....but WTF??  I don't think I have ever heard of that happening...  What exactly happened?

I feel bummed for you.....sorry...

[naitram]

ok, first to admit i;m not expert but havent some replaced a stock 6speed set with after market? if so you should have plenty of options.

[Fired00d]

Even if it were possible to go back to a five speed would you be happy w/that? Remember you posted somewhere about doing it right the first time.... If you are used to a six speed and like the extra gear would you be happy going to a five speed? It's easy when you don't know what you missing, but suxs to have had something and not have it anymore.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[Twolanerider]

ok, first to admit i;m not expert but havent some replaced a stock 6speed set with after market? if so you should have plenty of options.

The whole gear box; yes.  I'm wondering about working within this case though.  There are gear sets for a lot less change from others besides HD or Baker.  Just don't know whether the case work done to allow installation of the HD branded 6 speed gears locks that case in to that product for future replacement.

[Twolanerider]

Even if it were possible to go back to a five speed would you be happy w/that? Remember you posted somewhere about doing it right the first time.... If you are used to a six speed and like the extra gear would you be happy going to a five speed? It's easy when you don't know what you missing, but suxs to have had something and not have it anymore.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

Even as a short term solution I'm not considering sliding the five speed gear set back in.  Especially with the torque supplied by the engine now, and where in the RPM range it is supplied, it's a bike that actually uses the six speed gear set.

This blows.  Am just wondering right now what among the aftermarket service alternatives can be used to ease the blow-ness.

[Twolanerider]

Holy chit, Don...  I don't know the answer to your question....but WTF??  I don't think I have ever heard of that happening...  What exactly happened?

I feel bummed for you.....sorry...

It's ugly Scott.  Was lazily crusing along a country road in fourth gear.  Watching fields and clouds.  It screeched for about a heartbeat then just locked up. 

Flat spotted the back tire.  Belt didn't break.  But it couldn't have been helped by the process. 

Fortunately kept the bike upright.  But god what a noise it made.  Something just broke in the tranny.

Was no hint or forewarning.  Didn't make a peep or feel at all untoward back and forth to York.  It just broke.

Gear box has approximately 20k miles on it.  But that's irrelevant to sudden failure of course.

The damn thing just broke.  And lord what a noise it makes.  Sounds like rocks in a garbage disposal.  Pulled the drain plug when I got it back in the garage.  There was an inch tall mountain of debris stuck to the magnet.  One can only imagine how much more is loose inside the gear box.

Crap.

[Fired00d]

Even as a short term solution I'm not considering sliding the five speed gear set back in.  Especially with the torque supplied by the engine now, and where in the RPM range it is supplied, it's a bike that actually uses the six speed gear set.

This blows.  Am just wondering right now what among the aftermarket service alternatives can be used to ease the blow-ness.

True dat. Just didn't want you to look for an alternative that would only mean you have to go back and replace it later.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[Twolanerider]

True dat. Just didn't want you to look for an alternative that would only mean you have to go back and replace it later.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

Nah, I'm pissed and frustrated.  But I outgrew those things also bringing on stupid a long time ago.  I may want to punch an inanimate (or redneck) object.  But I'm not gutting or changing a transmission twice.

[sadunbar]

It's ugly Scott.  Was lazily crusing along a country road in fourth gear.  Watching fields and clouds.  It screeched for about a heartbeat then just locked up. 

Flat spotted the back tire.  Belt didn't break.  But it couldn't have been helped by the process. 

Fortunately kept the bike upright.  But god what a noise it made.  Something just broke in the tranny.

Was no hint or forewarning.  Didn't make a peep or feel at all untoward back and forth to York.  It just broke.

Gear box has approximately 20k miles on it.  But that's irrelevant to sudden failure of course.

The damn thing just broke.  And lord what a noise it makes.  Sounds like rocks in a garbage disposal.  Pulled the drain plug when I got it back in the garage.  There was an inch tall mountain of debris stuck to the magnet.  One can only imagine how much more is loose inside the gear box.

Crap.

I am glad you were able to keep it upright.  That had to be quite a ride.  I had a rear brake lock up years ago, and I was lucky to not dump it...actually came very close to doing just that.  The bushing on the rear brake lever froze while I was braking...  took my foot off the brake and the brake stayed on.  That one gave me chills, so I know this one had to be a similar ride for you.

Consider your good fortune of not going down (the bright side of your adventure today) - and then go to work finding a solution... 

[kojak]

It's ugly Scott.  Was lazily crusing along a country road in fourth gear.  Watching fields and clouds.  It screeched for about a heartbeat then just locked up. 

Flat spotted the back tire.  Belt didn't break.  But it couldn't have been helped by the process. 

Fortunately kept the bike upright.  But god what a noise it made.  Something just broke in the tranny.

Was no hint or forewarning.  Didn't make a peep or feel at all untoward back and forth to York.  It just broke.

Gear box has approximately 20k miles on it.  But that's irrelevant to sudden failure of course.

The damn thing just broke.  And lord what a noise it makes.  Sounds like rocks in a garbage disposal.  Pulled the drain plug when I got it back in the garage.  There was an inch tall mountain of debris stuck to the magnet.  One can only imagine how much more is loose inside the gear box.

Crap.

You are a lucky dude! Most riders would have laid it down. Let us know what failed in the tranny and caused the lockup.

[hogasm]

Don you are only stuck if you dont have a welder for aluminum.

[SBB]

Don you are only stuck if you dont have a welder for aluminum.

I just happen to have a 6 speed gear set in the box in the garage.
What are friends for.
If you need it call me and it will be on the way.
But I don't do installs.

SBB


And FYI, the first Harley I had (73 Sporty) was a runner till the rear axle bearing seized.
Felt like an invisible hand had grabbed the belt on my pants and didn't let go till I stopped in the middle of the road.
All in about 5 seconds.

[spydglide]

I don't know the answer to  your question, 2Ln, but just wanted to offer my congrats on riding that thing to a upright halt.  Man, so glad it didn't happen on the FreeWay in the middle lane on a six lane at rushhour.  I think of breaking a belt in those 'nowhere to go' traffic situations, but never consider a tranny lockup.  Oh well, now you've successfully created another paranoid thought situation.  har!  spyder

[Twolanerider]

I am glad you were able to keep it upright.  That had to be quite a ride.  I had a rear brake lock up years ago, and I was lucky to not dump it...actually came very close to doing just that.  The bushing on the rear brake lever froze while I was braking...  took my foot off the brake and the brake stayed on.  That one gave me chills, so I know this one had to be a similar ride for you.

Consider your good fortune of not going down (the bright side of your adventure today) - and then go to work finding a solution... 

I know there was some good fortune to it.  Was only doing 45 or so but it still could have gone down real quick.  It stayed upright and I didn't even soil my saddle.  So after that it's just parts I guess.

The bike was running so well though.  And after fighting the thing all last year I was really looking forward to just riding it now.  No more temperamental bike and just some fun on the road.

I know, I know, anything can fail at any time.  And this has nothing to do with anything that's been done elsewhere.  Just "one of those things."  But it's still annoying and I still think the bike knew I was leaving for Sedona in a couple of days and just wanted to remind me it knows the Travel Gods on a first name basis (and I don't).

[Twolanerider]

You are a lucky dude! Most riders would have laid it down. Let us know what failed in the tranny and caused the lockup.

I know.  But I'm still not feeling the love from it right at the moment.  Wrecked my old 57 vette a month and a a half or so ago.  Totally destroyed and the other guy didn't have insurance.  Bought the Road Glide the weekend before.  The damn toys have to stop costing so much and start giving at least some good riding back in return.

[Twolanerider]

Don you are only stuck if you dont have a welder for aluminum.

Will start making some calls tomorrow Brian.  If they'll work within this case I might consider some of the considerably lesser expensive aftermarket gearsets.  I know of two Revtechs that have been in service for >15K so will find out more about those at least.

I can weld up aluminum if need be.  Though that welder is in the shop and the bike is in the garage.  Easiest enough to bring the welder to the bike though.  Ideally I'll hope to find something that can just slide in though. 

[Twolanerider]

I just happen to have a 6 speed gear set in the box in the garage.
What are friends for.
If you need it call me and it will be on the way.
But I don't do installs.

SBB


And FYI, the first Harley I had (73 Sporty) was a runner till the rear axle bearing seized.
Felt like an invisible hand had grabbed the belt on my pants and didn't let go till I stopped in the middle of the road.
All in about 5 seconds.

Gear set?  Really?  Just exploring alternatives tonight so it is of course worth the phone call.  Be calling in a few. 

That "invisible hand" thing is a good description of what this felt like.  That moment's screech got me at least toward the clutch which might or might not have kept the bike upgright (just don't know for sure).  But it was surely a sudden pull down from the rear.

Here's the drain plug.  And that's just what didn't fall off.  Or what didn't glop out with the fluid.  Or the several times that amount I didn't dig out with an extandable little magnet.  Once again; crap.

[Twolanerider]

I don't know the answer to  your question, 2Ln, but just wanted to offer my congrats on riding that thing to a upright halt.  Man, so glad it didn't happen on the FreeWay in the middle lane on a six lane at rushhour.  I think of breaking a belt in those 'nowhere to go' traffic situations, but never consider a tranny lockup.  Oh well, now you've successfully created another paranoid thought situation.  har!  spyder

Thank you sir.  I know I lucked out for not putting the bike down.  This last few minutes has been (I suppose) my catharsis to get a little less pissed off too.  But I'm still a grumpy SOB for awhile.....

[Boatman]

I know.  But I'm still not feeling the love from it right at the moment.  Wrecked my old 57 vette a month and a a half or so ago.  Totally destroyed and the other guy didn't have insurance.  Bought the Road Glide the weekend before.  The damn toys have to stop costing so much and start giving at least some good riding back in return.

Sorry to hear of all your misfortune Don.  The good news is that you are alright and it didn't happen on the way home from York.  Can't offer a solution, just good thoughts.  A gear swap would be the easiest if the case is ok..  You at least know how to fix it once you know what will go in your old case.  The drain plug looks nasty.   Let us know what you do.

[Serkcus]

Man, I'm  starting to become paranoid about riding these things over 10mph. What transmission oil were you using?

[Twolanerider]

Man, I'm  starting to become paranoid about riding these things over 10mph. What transmission oil were you using?

The good stuff.  Redline synthetic.  This was a sudden failure though.  Something almost certainly just broke.

[DCFIREMANN]

Don I am just glad you are able to type at this point in time. The bike should have gone down. You are lucky and a very experienced rider.

OK now for the news. If I remember correctly once the case has been ground to accept the HD 6 speed that is all you can use from this point on. Unless you remove the trannie case and get really creative with your heliarc.

So I am soooo Glad you didn't go down, but I didn't want to be the bearer of bad news.

If I can be of any assistance please pick up the phone and call me. OH and BTW I will check with Axil tomorrow in the AM to be sure about the case.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[dsmbagger]

WOW!!! sorry to hear about the troubles....

You can look at the S+S 6 speed cassete.It should work with a case already modded for a S/e 6 speed. This tranny does have different gearing though so be aware...

http://www.sscycle.com/modules/instruction/uploads/51-1232.pdf

[Twolanerider]

Don I am just glad you are able to type at this point in time. The bike should have gone down. You are lucky and a very experienced rider.

OK now for the news. If I remember correctly once the case has been ground to accept the HD 6 speed that is all you can use from this point on. Unless you remove the trannie case and get really creative with your heliarc.

So I am soooo Glad you didn't go down, but I didn't want to be the bearer of bad news.

If I can be of any assistance please pick up the phone and call me. OH and BTW I will check with Axil tomorrow in the AM to be sure about the case.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

Thanks Mike.  I can't take too much credit for it not going down.  It just didn't.  Most I did was help a little.  But the bike was doing a whole lot more than I was.

What you're saying about the tranny case is what I've started to find out a bit more this evening.  The six speed install is the only work I didn't do to the bike.  Dealer had a 25% parts and labor winter install special going on two winters ago and I had another 25% off coupon thing and put them both toward the tranny job. 

Never worked inside one of these little gear boxes on any other either.  So having to figure out what's what as I go.  Probably need a few tools I don't have too.  (double crap)

From something I just read on Baker's website the case clearancing required for the SE gear set is more extensive than anyone elses.  It does seem that once it's gone Harley it can't go back to any other six speed.  While that means some lesser expensive options are not available I guess the benefit is I don't have to decide between anything else.  Lucky me.... 

Have found two sources saying or suggesting the case is permanently Harley once ground; all agreeing with your confirmation here.  Oh well....

[Twolanerider]

WOW!!! sorry to hear about the troubles....

You can look at the S+S 6 speed cassete.It should work with a case already modded for a S/e 6 speed. This tranny does have different gearing though so be aware...

http://www.sscycle.com/modules/instruction/uploads/51-1232.pdf

Had not looked at that one.  Thanks for the cite .

[dsmbagger]

No problem..I have never used one but there is more clearancing required to install this tranny. I have done a bunch of s/e's and bakers and this one looks just as good a unit. I am going to try one on my 117 soon. I really think this will work if it fits your riding style.

Thank you, i owed ya one since you gave me the color of the powdercoating...

[Twolanerider]

No problem..I have never used one but there is more clearancing required to install this tranny. I have done a bunch of s/e's and bakers and this one looks just as good a unit. I am going to try one on my 117 soon. I really think this will work if it fits your riding style.

Thank you, i owed ya one since you gave me the color of the powdercoating...

Well, bugger.  Just read something on the S&S website that said their tranny nor gear set were compatible with the hydraulic clutch.  Will ask them the question directly for more clarification tomorrow.  But for now appears as another strike.

[REGGAB]

Don,
WHEW!  You're Blessed!   
I know you're gonna do it anyway, but figured I'd ask.  Once you complete the teardown, would you please post an analysis and probable cause?  Thx.

[RedDevil]

Don,
Sorry to hear of the transmission dissintegration, but extremely glad to hear that nothing happened to you.  Parts can be replaced, you can't.    Be interesting to find out what happened and see what kind of metal failure it was.  I've never heard of transmission doing that before, so very interested.  Let us know.

   

[ccr]

Don, so sorry to hear that red bike is kicking your butt again.  And right now when you shoud be heading to AZ.  Hope you get it all fixed up soon.

[miker]

Crikey!   

[Twolanerider]

Don, so sorry to hear that red bike is kicking your butt again.  And right now when you shoud be heading to AZ.  Hope you get it all fixed up soon.

Candy, the only positive about this as a problem is that it is an isolated failure.  Has nothing to do with all the driveability issues that came from the Zippers mistake.  That is all fortunately behind it now and in very good order.  The bike is running in Bristol Fashion.  Something simply failed here separate and apart from anything else.

Henry, et.al.; I'm curious also about what the original failure might have been.  I hope that with as much metal as came out of the box that the original point of failure is actually obvious to someone like myself not familiar with the gear box.  Will have to wait and see what looking it over closely will tell.

[Hugh Janis]

Is it possible that grinding the case caused the ticking time bomb somehow?  Is it also possible that exploding gears inside a tranny case can do even more damage to the inside of the case?  If it were me, I'd replace the whole thing and remove that risk.

At 1st I was thinking, OK, just pull in the clutch.  Then it dawned on me that the clutch disengaged the tranny from the motor but not the tranny from the rear wheel.  What a ride you had!  God bless you for keeping it upright whether or not the bike acted alone.

[porthole]

I haven't done the six speed install, so just going by what I have seen on the net.


I saw a video on the clearence work of the gearbox. It appears to just remove the metal that forms the screw boss for the top center side cover screw.

If the top center screw is not necessary on the SE 6 speed install why is it necessary on any other side covers, regardless of the gear set inside?

[porthole]

Maybe the moco would be interested in seeing your "grenaded" gear set ................. and in return for allowing that to happen you could get the trans repaired.

I know a small shop would certainly want to see what caused such a catastrophic failure to the point it put your life in danger.

[FNGw/08SERK]

Crap Don that sucks on many levels. Glad your ok.

[Ghost Rider]

Don,

Sorry to hear about your breakdown. I'm very glad to hear no injuries occurred.  Its a good thing I wasn't riding with you, 'cause I probably would have soiled my seat.  

Let me know if you could use an extra set hands for any of the repairs.

[Twolanerider]

I haven't done the six speed install, so just going by what I have seen on the net.


I saw a video on the clearence work of the gearbox. It appears to just remove the metal that forms the screw boss for the top center side cover screw.

If the top center screw is not necessary on the SE 6 speed install why is it necessary on any other side covers, regardless of the gear set inside?

Duane, the simplest answer is I don't know.  Since it's something I'm not familiar with can only go by what the mftrs tell me.  So far this morning a rep at Baker and another at Revtech have specifically said their gear sets can't go in a case that had already had a Harley six speed gear set installed.

I can't say it makes sense to me.  It's only even more room that's been created.  And they could be wrong.  But it's what I've been told.

[REGGAB]

Duane, the simplest answer is I don't know.  Since it's something I'm not familiar with can only go by what the mftrs tell me.  So far this morning a rep at Baker and another at Revtech have specifically said their gear sets can't go in a case that had already had a Harley six speed gear set installed.

I can't say it makes sense to me.  It's only even more room that's been created.  And they could be wrong.  But it's what I've been told.

Don,
Please call Rod at (256) 352-2643.  He says he can work a Baker into your case.

[Twolanerider]

Is it possible that grinding the case caused the ticking time bomb somehow?  Is it also possible that exploding gears inside a tranny case can do even more damage to the inside of the case?  If it were me, I'd replace the whole thing and remove that risk.

At 1st I was thinking, OK, just pull in the clutch.  Then it dawned on me that the clutch disengaged the tranny from the motor but not the tranny from the rear wheel.  What a ride you had!  God bless you for keeping it upright whether or not the bike acted alone.

Jim, the original install was 20K miles ago.  It's also not as if many of these haven't been done.  So I have to assume it's unlikely something from the original install led to the failure.  I likely can't know after the fact.  But the time involved and general history suggest otherwise.

The case isn't busted.  At least not from as close a visual inspection as I can give it now.  Some internal damage is something that's been on my mind though.  Though I have to say I doubt it at least as of right now.  It broke while in 4th.  With the engine running and the bike moving at all you can't shift it.  With the engine off you can force between 2-3-4 then start it.  It won't roll in 4th.  It will roll in 2-3 while making a hellish clatter.  That's how I got it on the trailer and then from the street uphill up the driveway an on to the lift.  That 100 foot or so of total rolling chewed up even more of course.  But it got the bike home and in.

More homework this morning has informed that most that make gear sets (Revtech, Ultima, a few others) only make softail style complete units.  The only unit assemblies apparently are the HD branded unit and the Baker.  So if I'm very concerned about case issues or actually find some those are the options. 

Admit being tempted to go that way.  A few hundred dollars initial price difference.  But that's less then the cost of a six speed gear set that I like couldn't send back and might not be able to use if there is case damage.  Have I mentioned this sucks...

[Twolanerider]

Don,
Please call Rod at (256) 352-2643.  He says he can work a Baker into your case.

Thanks Henry.  Will do.  Today is a homework day so all options are still good ones.  Thanks pal .

[porthole]

have specifically said their gear sets can't go in a case that had already had a Harley six speed gear set installed.

was it specific? or a like the trans engine side cover will not fit with hydraulic clutch covers and the quick disconnect fuel line will not work on touring bikes answer?

Vague and generic.

Like I said, have not done any work on our transmissions, but I have worked on a manual trans or two.

And I have seen many manual grenade themselves internally with little or no case damage.

Of course I have seen the opposite on some apps. Wasn't uncommon in the late 70's to see gear boxes blown apart, especially with 440 6 paks or hemis.


You might get lucky here and just have a gear that decided to self destruct, doesn't take much to lock of the gear set, just put a chunk of metal between two gears.

Try contacting Jim's yet?

[Twolanerider]

was it specific? or a like the trans engine side cover will not fit with hydraulic clutch covers and the quick disconnect fuel line will not work on touring bikes answer?

Vague and generic.

Like I said, have not done any work on our transmissions, but I have worked on a manual trans or two.

And I have seen many manual grenade themselves internally with little or no case damage.

Of course I have seen the opposite on some apps. Wasn't uncommon in the late 70's to see gear boxes blown apart, especially with 440 6 paks or hemis.


You might get lucky here and just have a gear that decided to self destruct, doesn't take much to lock of the gear set, just put a chunk of metal between two gears.

Try contacting Jim's yet?

I asked both Baker and Revtech reps very specific questions.  Q&A for specifics is well within my portfolio.  Whether they were unsure and took the safest answer or not I can't say.  But they both were specific in answering that their gear sets wouldn't work in the previously modified case.  As mentioned above, and as you seem to suggest here, I'm not sure I buy it or understand why.  But it is what the said.

Have done a lot of Muncie, BW and Saginaw gear boxes over the years.  Completely grenaded were a very few.  Hole shots are rare.  The case here is very likely just fine.  As you write it doesn't take much to make a relatively complex gear set stop rolling.

I just loathe the "what if" right now.  What if I get a damn gear set here then do find the admittedly unexpected problem.  The smart thing to do would be tear it down and then order parts.  But for that I'd have to be more patient then I'm still feeling at the moment.

[porthole]

Well at least you have another bike you enjoy.

I don't envy you that is for sure, just off a great trip and then this.

It is obvious you will not solve anything untill you pull it apart. And the thought of taking it back to the dealer 

They may just look at it and say you need a whole trans.

Even if you only had two gears that failed I would be suspect of the whole gear train. In a car it is not that big of deal when the trans fails. As you found out it can be devastating with two wheels.

[Hoist!]

Don,

This is for the complete trans:
http://www.customchrome.com/catalogs/CCP2006/0796.html

This gearset says no trans case modifications required:
http://www.customchrome.com/catalogs/CCP2006/0797.html

Hoist!

[Twolanerider]

Well at least you have another bike you enjoy.

I don't envy you that is for sure, just off a great trip and then this.

It is obvious you will not solve anything untill you pull it apart. And the thought of taking it back to the dealer 

They may just look at it and say you need a whole trans.

Even if you only had two gears that failed I would be suspect of the whole gear train. In a car it is not that big of deal when the trans fails. As you found out it can be devastating with two wheels.

Duane, with all the debris that had already glopped out with the fluid or on a magnet I have no intention of rebuilding this gear set.  Too much crap went through too many places for me to put my rear on this gear set again over two wheels.  Even if it held together I'd expect it to be noisy.  And I'd still replace whatever was shelled, whatever was next to what shelled and every bearing.  So it's a gear set or a tranny.  As you say, it's less of an issue on a car.  Can actually do those easier in most cases.  And they don't fall over when they break.

[Twolanerider]

Don,

This is for the complete trans:
http://www.customchrome.com/catalogs/CCP2006/0796.html

This gearset says no trans case modifications required:
http://www.customchrome.com/catalogs/CCP2006/0797.html

Hoist!

Missed that entirely Howie.  Thanks pal .

[GC_Super]

Jsut curious if you changed the fluid soon after the initial install?  I had my 6 sp installed by the dealer at delivery, and when I changed all my fluids at the 100 mile mark, the tranny had lots of metal shavings and fine metal sawdust in it. I assumed that the tech must not have cleaned up very well after the grinding. suprise, suprise. Just to be safe, I drained it again at the 500 mile mark, and it looked pretty normal then.

[Twolanerider]

Missed that entirely Howie.  Thanks pal .

Ooops, read it more closely.  Original fitment info had read earlier appears correct after all.  No fitment for newer touring bikes.  Older, but not more current.  Would've been interested too...

[Twolanerider]

Jsut curious if you changed the fluid soon after the initial install?  I had my 6 sp installed by the dealer at delivery, and when I changed all my fluids at the 100 mile mark, the tranny had lots of metal shavings and fine metal sawdust in it. I assumed that the tech must not have cleaned up very well after the grinding. suprise, suprise. Just to be safe, I drained it again at the 500 mile mark, and it looked pretty normal then.

After the original install some 20k miles ago the gear oil was drained after I rode it home.  Again at 2500 and normal service intervals after that.

[Hoist!]

Ooops, read it more closely.  Original fitment info had read earlier appears correct after all.  No fitment for newer touring bikes.  Older, but not more current.  Would've been interested too...

Sorry, didn't notice that Don. But the replacement Rev Tech gearset looks like it has potential.

Hoist!

[Twolanerider]

Sorry, didn't notice that Don. But the replacement Rev Tech gearset looks like it has potential.

Hoist!

It truly does.  Entirely in the FWIW department I know of two of them in service and have gotten to ride one before.  At least that one is not a noisy gear set.  About like the HD set was.  The two I know of have both been in service 12-15k.  It's not a lifetime.  They are both behind only 88s.  But it's at least something to go on.  A dealer for them up close to St. Louis has very fair prices too.  He's checking now to see if they'll play with hydraulic clutch.

[Hoist!]

It truly does.  Entirely in the FWIW department I know of two of them in service and have gotten to ride one before.  At least that one is not a noisy gear set.  About like the HD set was.  The two I know of have both been in service 12-15k.  It's not a lifetime.  They are both behind only 88s.  But it's at least something to go on.  A dealer for them up close to St. Louis has very fair prices too.  He's checking now to see if they'll play with hydraulic clutch.

I'm using it with my Rev Tech 110 Evo, so it better hold up to bigger motors!

Hoist!

[SBB]

It truly does.  Entirely in the FWIW department I know of two of them in service and have gotten to ride one before.  At least that one is not a noisy gear set.  About like the HD set was.  The two I know of have both been in service 12-15k.  It's not a lifetime.  They are both behind only 88s.  But it's at least something to go on.  A dealer for them up close to St. Louis has very fair prices too.  He's checking now to see if they'll play with hydraulic clutch.

Don

I can get a down and dirty price on that stuff.
That's why I offered you the spare 6 speed that's sitting in the garage. (new in the box)
So before you pull the trigger on any transmission parts, get me a part # and let me see what I can do.
As always, shipping is free.

 





Damn, I gotta build a bigger garage to store all this stuff.

[Texas 103]

It truly does.  Entirely in the FWIW department I know of two of them in service and have gotten to ride one before.  At least that one is not a noisy gear set.  About like the HD set was.  The two I know of have both been in service 12-15k.  It's not a lifetime.  They are both behind only 88s.  But it's at least something to go on.  A dealer for them up close to St. Louis has very fair prices too.  He's checking now to see if they'll play with hydraulic clutch.

Don,

You may want to call Lloyd before you go the Revtech route...The only thing I'll install is the SE Gear Set. After LLoyd did mine it is so sweet>>>>Greg 

[Twolanerider]

Don,

You may want to call Lloyd before you go the Revtech route...The only thing I'll install is the SE Gear Set. After LLoyd did mine it is so sweet>>>>Greg 

Greg, I was at least considering the Revtech or Ultima gear sets initially for their price comparison.  Wouldn't have pulled the trigger until I knew more.  But was willing to scope out the possibilities.  Turns out there are relatively few though.

Spoke this afternoon with someone I'd been directed to at Jim's.  He'd "been there and done that" with all of the more common parts sets and said he'd worked previously at Baker so had much hands on experience both ways.  He said also what I'd been told previously.  That the material removal necessary for the HD branded gear set locks you in to that gear set within the case.  At least this time got a more specific explanation as to why.  Was told the HD told requires removal of casting that is a support for a fork.  It is support that all the others still use.

This leaves two options.  HD gear set or Baker complete transmission.  With the exception of the HD-Se unit no one else produces a complete tranny assembly.

[hogasm]

Don on the reason why part....on the SE gear sets the gears are held into place with a 2 piece clip. This has been the downfall of many a SE gear set.

Just tore into one on Wed where this happened.

Good luck with your project.....and keep us informed............like you wouldn't do that anyway

[ultrafxr]

Don on the reason why part....on the SE gear sets the gears are held into place with a 2 piece clip. This has been the downfall of many a SE gear set.

Just tore into one on Wed where this happened.

Good luck with your project.....and keep us informed............like you wouldn't do that anyway

Is that also the case with the new 6-speed cruise drive tranny introduced on '07 models ('06 for dyna)?

[Twolanerider]

Have had a couple of questions wondering more specifically about what clearancing is required to install the SE 6 speed gear set which keeps others from working.  Just checked my notes from phone conversations during the day.  Was told the same thing by someone at Jim's and someone at Baker. 

I've never had a reason to be inside of one of these little gear boxes before.  So simply relying on what I'm being told at this point.  The change that is supposed to make the case no longer a donor for the installation of other gear sets is the complete amputation of the right fork rod boss.  Apparently that's a support that the other gear sets require but which is removed for installation of the HD SE six speed gear set.

[sadunbar]

Have had a couple of questions wondering more specifically about what clearancing is required to install the SE 6 speed gear set which keeps others from working.  Just checked my notes from phone conversations during the day.  Was told the same thing by someone at Jim's and someone at Baker. 

I've never had a reason to be inside of one of these little gear boxes before.  So simply relying on what I'm being told at this point.  The change that is supposed to make the case no longer a donor for the installation of other gear sets is the complete amputation of the right fork rod boss.  Apparently that's a support that the other gear sets require but which is removed for installation of the HD SE six speed gear set.

Don,

  I don't know this from first hand knowledge or experience, but I have been told the same thing from someone who claims to have made this conversion...

Scott

[porthole]

The change that is supposed to make the case no longer a donor for the installation of other gear sets is the complete amputation of the right fork rod boss.  Apparently that's a support that the other gear sets require but which is removed for installation of the HD SE six speed gear set.

Well that makes sense and is better then the "it won't work" answer.

I guess this makes your choices a little easier now.

[hogasm]

Is that also the case with the new 6-speed cruise drive tranny introduced on '07 models ('06 for dyna)?

Yes the new trans has the 2 peice retainer

[Twolanerider]

Well that makes sense and is better then the "it won't work" answer.

I guess this makes your choices a little easier now.

It does at last limit them.  Though the only options are the most expensive ones.  Think that tomorrow I'll pull the guts out of what's here and inspect the case as closely as I can.  Don't really expect to find it cratered.  But am concerned that a bearing might have spun.  Rather than dealing with honing out a hole and having to find oversized that would finish making the choice for a new box were that to have happened.

[porthole]

Well, as fast as it happened and with the "lock up" I think you may just find a failed gear, hopefully you will pull it apart and not have to deal with spun bearings.

But you have already said you would not trust the gear set if that is what you find. And I can't say I wouldn't feel the same, especially for the aforementioned reason (2 vs. 4)


You said you spoke with Jim's, did they show any interest in helping you out? Any interest in the failure?

[Twolanerider]

Well, as fast as it happened and with the "lock up" I think you may just find a failed gear, hopefully you will pull it apart and not have to deal with spun bearings.

But you have already said you would not trust the gear set if that is what you find. And I can't say I wouldn't feel the same, especially for the aforementioned reason (2 vs. 4)


You said you spoke with Jim's, did they show any interest in helping you out? Any interest in the failure?

It  does hardly seem worth the risk or annoyance.  Have access to a shop where I could magnaflux everything.  This is so much debris and shavings that came out with the fluid or on a magnet it's been everywhere.  So a gear set complete if, for no other reason, what's left would likely be noisier.  More important is the obvious though.  Don't want the notion of it trying to fall down again bouncing around in the back of my head with the voices.

[Chief]

It does at last limit them.  Though the only options are the most expensive ones.  Think that tomorrow I'll pull the guts out of what's here and inspect the case as closely as I can.  Don't really expect to find it cratered.  But am concerned that a bearing might have spun.  Rather than dealing with honing out a hole and having to find oversized that would finish making the choice for a new box were that to have happened.

This will be better than "The Big One" at Talledega that didn't happen.

[Twolanerider]

This will be better than "The Big One" at Talledega that didn't happen.

Chuck, if I don't start launching parts....

[Chief]

Chuck, if I don't start launching parts....

Pictures first, getting to V_escape comes second. Remember, count to ten and take deep breaths. Go have a cold one inside and then come back out.

[Twolanerider]

Pictures first, getting to V_escape comes second. Remember, count to ten and take deep breaths. Go have a cold one inside and then come back out.

I will do my best....

[Twolanerider]

I'll be damned.  A guy in a pickup truck I assume on his way home after completing Saturday next-day deliveries just dropped off the Road Glide legs.  Talk about service above and beyond.

Will at least have something to ride while chasing and waiting on parts.  Going to go put the nose back on.

[Hoist!]

I'll be damned.  A guy in a pickup truck I assume on his way home after completing Saturday next-day deliveries just dropped off the Road Glide legs.  Talk about service above and beyond.

Will at least have something to ride while chasing and waiting on parts.  Going to go put the nose back on.

Sounds like you can be spending that time to get the SERG ready for Sedona!

Hoist!

[porthole]

just dropped off the Road Glide legs. 

What are you doing to the RG?

[dsmbagger]

Look at the big hole in the center that drops down. That entire thing has to be trimmed off for a s/e unit to drop in. It support the rod that the shift forks ride on. With out that, it wont work. Why not just pop off your trans top cover and take a peek. Should only be a couple of minuted to get off.. I would highly doubt it that your cases were shot, i have fix grenaded trannies before and all the cases have been good.The only case i have ever had to replace was when the belt sproket came loose and gouged the case bad....

the S+s instructions that show the clearancing are very similar to the way the s/e one was done..

hope this helps a little.

[dsmbagger]

this shows you what that rod supports..(this is a baker DD6 by the way)




If you want some more pics or need a walk through i can email you more pics or send you my #.

[Twolanerider]

This is what happens when people make it difficult to spend money.  An even greater limitation of options.

Really preferred to just replace the tranny.  For any of several reasons.  Got prices on complete Baker units from $2250 to $2900 last Friday and Saturday with intention of ordering parts today.

They're all vaporware. 

Worse is that delivery time after order are all promised to be 2 1/2 to 4 weeks.  That pushed back in to some travel coming up and would mean the bike wouldn't get done until probably late June.  Patience and prudence only goes so far.

Baker will sell direct.  And be able to ship promptly.  Cost from Baker is $3495 plus freight. 

That is compared against another Harley gear set I found that could ship today and freight inclusive be $1330.00.  Guess which way it's going....

Will cross fingers and hope the case is fine (as it likely will be).  Was willing to pay a fair difference and not have to contend with the possibility of not having everything in hand or finding more damage in the midst of the task.  But for the time delay and that price difference I'll give it a shot.

Anyone know what seals or other pieces should be replaced while their accessible that are not part of the tranny kit.  I'm assuming "complete" isn't really "complete" as with Harley it never really is?

[Boatman]

Don-

Don't have a clue in what comes in the MOCO's gear set regarding gaskets.  Cometic makes an inner and outer primary gasket and seal kit which I used and worked well.  I also saw that they offer a trans gasket set and mainshaft and shift shaft seals.  You probably have spares of those.

It's sad that Baker would send you a tranny immediately at full price whereas the discounters needed a few weeks.  Nothing is easy.

What's really sad is the fact a 13 speed semi trans that is 3 feet long with twin countershafts sells just a little more than the $3500 Baker.      These toys, not necessities really gouge us.

I know you have did all the research.  Good luck in the repair and keep us posted.   

[Twolanerider]

Don-

Don't have a clue in what comes in the MOCO's gear set regarding gaskets.  Cometic makes an inner and outer primary gasket and seal kit which I used and worked well.  I also saw that they offer a trans gasket set and mainshaft and shift shaft seals.  You probably have spares of those.

It's sad that Baker would send you a tranny immediately at full price whereas the discounters needed a few weeks.  Nothing is easy.

What's really sad is the fact a 13 speed semi trans that is 3 feet long with twin countershafts sells just a little more than the $3500 Baker.      These toys, not necessities really gouge us.

I know you have did all the research.  Good luck in the repair and keep us posted.   

Thanks Bob.  There was actually one other alternative option that I didn't pursue either.  Might be something to keep in mind for anyone ever considering a Baker later and needing or wanting to do the whole thing though. 

The Baker case is not a "Baker" case.  They buy cases from Harley.  Two different guys there told me this.  Standard Harley oil pan on it too unless you pay extra and get their one quart oversized pan.

This left the other alternative being buying the Baker guts at any of the several places they were availalble (best price I found was $1940) and a Harley case.  That combination is actually a lot cheaper than a trans directly from Baker out the door.

But I couldn't find a Harley case in stock anywhere either. 

The goal is still to get it buttoned up this week or this weekend.  Things get a bit busy after so this is the best shot to get it knocked out. 

Gear set on the way today.  A few tools I'd never needed before on the way today.  Should all be here Thursday or Friday.  Hopefully Saturday the red bike will be ok again.

[Fired00d]

...... 

The goal is still to get it buttoned up this week or this weekend.  Things get a bit busy after so this is the best shot to get it knocked out. 

Gear set on the way today.  A few tools I'd never needed before on the way today.  Should all be here Thursday or Friday.  Hopefully Saturday the red bike will be ok again.

Update?? Inquiring minds want to know.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[spydglide]

hey d00d, didn't you read about the early morning garfield incident.. ....that may have caused a delay in this project.    har!  spyder

[porthole]

early morning garfield incident.. :

 

[Fired00d]

See here.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[Twolanerider]

Finally took it apart this evening.  Rather surprising pictures here: 

http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=23153.0

[porthole]

Finally took it apart this evening.  Rather surprising pictures here: 

Don is up late again ...........

[Twolanerider]

Don is up late again ...........

Opps, my watch must've been wrong.  Could've sworn it was earlier then that .