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[ccr]

Don, so sorry to hear that red bike is kicking your butt again.  And right now when you shoud be heading to AZ.  Hope you get it all fixed up soon.

[miker]

Crikey!   

[Twolanerider]

Don, so sorry to hear that red bike is kicking your butt again.  And right now when you shoud be heading to AZ.  Hope you get it all fixed up soon.

Candy, the only positive about this as a problem is that it is an isolated failure.  Has nothing to do with all the driveability issues that came from the Zippers mistake.  That is all fortunately behind it now and in very good order.  The bike is running in Bristol Fashion.  Something simply failed here separate and apart from anything else.

Henry, et.al.; I'm curious also about what the original failure might have been.  I hope that with as much metal as came out of the box that the original point of failure is actually obvious to someone like myself not familiar with the gear box.  Will have to wait and see what looking it over closely will tell.

[Hugh Janis]

Is it possible that grinding the case caused the ticking time bomb somehow?  Is it also possible that exploding gears inside a tranny case can do even more damage to the inside of the case?  If it were me, I'd replace the whole thing and remove that risk.

At 1st I was thinking, OK, just pull in the clutch.  Then it dawned on me that the clutch disengaged the tranny from the motor but not the tranny from the rear wheel.  What a ride you had!  God bless you for keeping it upright whether or not the bike acted alone.

[porthole]

I haven't done the six speed install, so just going by what I have seen on the net.


I saw a video on the clearence work of the gearbox. It appears to just remove the metal that forms the screw boss for the top center side cover screw.

If the top center screw is not necessary on the SE 6 speed install why is it necessary on any other side covers, regardless of the gear set inside?

[porthole]

Maybe the moco would be interested in seeing your "grenaded" gear set ................. and in return for allowing that to happen you could get the trans repaired.

I know a small shop would certainly want to see what caused such a catastrophic failure to the point it put your life in danger.

[FNGw/08SERK]

Crap Don that sucks on many levels. Glad your ok.

[Ghost Rider]

Don,

Sorry to hear about your breakdown. I'm very glad to hear no injuries occurred.  Its a good thing I wasn't riding with you, 'cause I probably would have soiled my seat.  

Let me know if you could use an extra set hands for any of the repairs.

[Twolanerider]

I haven't done the six speed install, so just going by what I have seen on the net.


I saw a video on the clearence work of the gearbox. It appears to just remove the metal that forms the screw boss for the top center side cover screw.

If the top center screw is not necessary on the SE 6 speed install why is it necessary on any other side covers, regardless of the gear set inside?

Duane, the simplest answer is I don't know.  Since it's something I'm not familiar with can only go by what the mftrs tell me.  So far this morning a rep at Baker and another at Revtech have specifically said their gear sets can't go in a case that had already had a Harley six speed gear set installed.

I can't say it makes sense to me.  It's only even more room that's been created.  And they could be wrong.  But it's what I've been told.

[REGGAB]

Duane, the simplest answer is I don't know.  Since it's something I'm not familiar with can only go by what the mftrs tell me.  So far this morning a rep at Baker and another at Revtech have specifically said their gear sets can't go in a case that had already had a Harley six speed gear set installed.

I can't say it makes sense to me.  It's only even more room that's been created.  And they could be wrong.  But it's what I've been told.

Don,
Please call Rod at (256) 352-2643.  He says he can work a Baker into your case.

[Twolanerider]

Is it possible that grinding the case caused the ticking time bomb somehow?  Is it also possible that exploding gears inside a tranny case can do even more damage to the inside of the case?  If it were me, I'd replace the whole thing and remove that risk.

At 1st I was thinking, OK, just pull in the clutch.  Then it dawned on me that the clutch disengaged the tranny from the motor but not the tranny from the rear wheel.  What a ride you had!  God bless you for keeping it upright whether or not the bike acted alone.

Jim, the original install was 20K miles ago.  It's also not as if many of these haven't been done.  So I have to assume it's unlikely something from the original install led to the failure.  I likely can't know after the fact.  But the time involved and general history suggest otherwise.

The case isn't busted.  At least not from as close a visual inspection as I can give it now.  Some internal damage is something that's been on my mind though.  Though I have to say I doubt it at least as of right now.  It broke while in 4th.  With the engine running and the bike moving at all you can't shift it.  With the engine off you can force between 2-3-4 then start it.  It won't roll in 4th.  It will roll in 2-3 while making a hellish clatter.  That's how I got it on the trailer and then from the street uphill up the driveway an on to the lift.  That 100 foot or so of total rolling chewed up even more of course.  But it got the bike home and in.

More homework this morning has informed that most that make gear sets (Revtech, Ultima, a few others) only make softail style complete units.  The only unit assemblies apparently are the HD branded unit and the Baker.  So if I'm very concerned about case issues or actually find some those are the options. 

Admit being tempted to go that way.  A few hundred dollars initial price difference.  But that's less then the cost of a six speed gear set that I like couldn't send back and might not be able to use if there is case damage.  Have I mentioned this sucks...

[Twolanerider]

Don,
Please call Rod at (256) 352-2643.  He says he can work a Baker into your case.

Thanks Henry.  Will do.  Today is a homework day so all options are still good ones.  Thanks pal .

[porthole]

have specifically said their gear sets can't go in a case that had already had a Harley six speed gear set installed.

was it specific? or a like the trans engine side cover will not fit with hydraulic clutch covers and the quick disconnect fuel line will not work on touring bikes answer?

Vague and generic.

Like I said, have not done any work on our transmissions, but I have worked on a manual trans or two.

And I have seen many manual grenade themselves internally with little or no case damage.

Of course I have seen the opposite on some apps. Wasn't uncommon in the late 70's to see gear boxes blown apart, especially with 440 6 paks or hemis.


You might get lucky here and just have a gear that decided to self destruct, doesn't take much to lock of the gear set, just put a chunk of metal between two gears.

Try contacting Jim's yet?

[Twolanerider]

was it specific? or a like the trans engine side cover will not fit with hydraulic clutch covers and the quick disconnect fuel line will not work on touring bikes answer?

Vague and generic.

Like I said, have not done any work on our transmissions, but I have worked on a manual trans or two.

And I have seen many manual grenade themselves internally with little or no case damage.

Of course I have seen the opposite on some apps. Wasn't uncommon in the late 70's to see gear boxes blown apart, especially with 440 6 paks or hemis.


You might get lucky here and just have a gear that decided to self destruct, doesn't take much to lock of the gear set, just put a chunk of metal between two gears.

Try contacting Jim's yet?

I asked both Baker and Revtech reps very specific questions.  Q&A for specifics is well within my portfolio.  Whether they were unsure and took the safest answer or not I can't say.  But they both were specific in answering that their gear sets wouldn't work in the previously modified case.  As mentioned above, and as you seem to suggest here, I'm not sure I buy it or understand why.  But it is what the said.

Have done a lot of Muncie, BW and Saginaw gear boxes over the years.  Completely grenaded were a very few.  Hole shots are rare.  The case here is very likely just fine.  As you write it doesn't take much to make a relatively complex gear set stop rolling.

I just loathe the "what if" right now.  What if I get a damn gear set here then do find the admittedly unexpected problem.  The smart thing to do would be tear it down and then order parts.  But for that I'd have to be more patient then I'm still feeling at the moment.

[porthole]

Well at least you have another bike you enjoy.

I don't envy you that is for sure, just off a great trip and then this.

It is obvious you will not solve anything untill you pull it apart. And the thought of taking it back to the dealer 

They may just look at it and say you need a whole trans.

Even if you only had two gears that failed I would be suspect of the whole gear train. In a car it is not that big of deal when the trans fails. As you found out it can be devastating with two wheels.