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CVO Technical => Milwaukee-Eight => Topic started by: Stewie_FL on March 18, 2020, 08:59:37 AM
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Just wondering what fuel brand does your bike run better on. Most people don't think fuel brand makes a difference. I have found that my car seems to run best performance wise better on BP. My Hayabusa ran best on Shell. Still working on what the CVO likes best. Currently running Mobil. I run the tank almost dry so it doesn't mix brands. Anyone else experiment with this?
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I swear my Softail got better MPGs when I put 87 in it by mistake a few time, instead of 91 or 93.
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It’s all in your head. I lived in New Orleans several years ago and one of the major gas companies (I think it was Shell) had a bad batch of gas that got distributed to service stations. The advisory that was sent out to the public listed major gas stations other than Shell as having the bad gas. So, why would a Chevron station have bad Shell gas? Because they buy from each other.
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I always just run Premium from wherever I need to get it when I am low :nixweiss:
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I swear my Softail got better MPGs when I put 87 in it by mistake a few time, instead of 91 or 93.
It probably did. The low octane fuel could cause detonation. Your ECU will adjust for this and thus make less power. By making less power, you'll get better mileage.
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I swear my Softail got better MPGs when I put 87 in it by mistake a few time, instead of 91 or 93.
That is not unusual. Some of the things that are done to increase octane level have a negative effect on efficiency (mpg). It's one of the reasons automotive engineers do not recommend people run Premium in vehicles designed to run on Regular. Not only do you pay more for Premium, you also get fewer miles per gallon which makes the economics even worse. Thanks to modern electronics, we do have cars and trucks these days that can operate on pretty much any octane currently available without doing damage. However, when those cars and trucks are certified for fuel economy most are run on Regular. When the company wants to brag about power and ignore fuel economy, then they use Premium and it works because the engine management systems can adjust both ways.
With a Harley, if you run 87 octane and just cruise normally, there may not be any negative reaction. But if you get the engine hot and then roll on a lot of throttle it will most likely detonate severely (ping). The system used to control that on the pre-M8 engines was not terribly effective (but is was cheap). Note that the M8 no longer uses the "ion-sense" system used on Twin Cams; the M8's actually use real knock sensors. I would expect that system to be much better in terms of controlling detonation.
JMHO - Jerry
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If I am not mistaken, premium fuel burns a little cooler than regular octane. Could that be part of the reason Harley recommends its use, since the engines are air cooled? I know my 2003 Dodge ram with the 5.7L would barely hit 100mph on 87 with the Superchip, but would go north of 135 mph using the high octane tune and 93 octane.
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It’s all in your head. I lived in New Orleans several years ago and one of the major gas companies (I think it was Shell) had a bad batch of gas that got distributed to service stations. The advisory that was sent out to the public listed major gas stations other than Shell as having the bad gas. So, why would a Chevron station have bad Shell gas? Because they buy from each other.
Big BP place up here where the gas is piped in. I had a repair call there one day and got to chatting with the guy there. They will sell gas to anyone that wants it. All the additives in the gas are added right at the terminal that fills the tankers. Depending on what all you want in your gas is what gets put in that tanker. BP stations ( franchises) are required to buy the gas with the additives that make it BP gas. Other stations do not.
Sent from my boring Droid phone.
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Big BP place up here where the gas is piped in. I had a repair call there one day and got to chatting with the guy there. They will sell gas to anyone that wants it. All the additives in the gas are added right at the terminal that fills the tankers. Depending on what all you want in your gas is what gets put in that tanker. BP stations ( franchises) are required to buy the gas with the additives that make it BP gas. Other stations do not.
Sent from my boring Droid phone.
Knew some drivers of tanker's and was told the same thing.... additives added specific to the brand (station) they were delivering the fuel too. As long as you are using a top tier gas you should do fine.... gets down to if you have a favorite (for whatever reason) of those top tier.
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
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Big BP place up here where the gas is piped in. I had a repair call there one day and got to chatting with the guy there. They will sell gas to anyone that wants it. All the additives in the gas are added right at the terminal that fills the tankers. Depending on what all you want in your gas is what gets put in that tanker. BP stations ( franchises) are required to buy the gas with the additives that make it BP gas. Other stations do not.
Sent from my boring Droid phone.
This is correct, I have spent the last 15 years working offshore oil and gas.
We will use gulf of Mexico.
The oil is drilled by many different companies, like BP, Shell, Murphy, Hess and more. It then all goes into the same pipe line to take it to shore. So its all mixed together no way to know who drilled what. Once ashore its piped to various refineries such as BP, Shell, Exxon, Hess, and more. The refineries all produce gas, but its slightly different formulation based on the region or area of the country its going to. They all have different blend requirements, mandated by the state or area. So gas for and area will get piped to a distribution center or terminal in that area. Again in the pipe its mixed with other refinery gas as long as its for that area.
Once pumped into the tanker truck, the brand specific additive package is added. This is when it becomes BP or Shell or Texaco or so on.
The difference is in the additives. And yes the additives do make a difference, and do matter.
I only use Top Tear gas, it has better additives.
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This is correct, I have spent the last 15 years working offshore oil and gas.
We will use gulf of Mexico.
The oil is drilled by many different companies, like BP, Shell, Murphy, Hess and more. It then all goes into the same pipe line to take it to shore. So its all mixed together no way to know who drilled what. Once ashore its piped to various refineries such as BP, Shell, Exxon, Hess, and more. The refineries all produce gas, but its slightly different formulation based on the region or area of the country its going to. They all have different blend requirements, mandated by the state or area. So gas for and area will get piped to a distribution center or terminal in that area. Again in the pipe its mixed with other refinery gas as long as its for that area.
Once pumped into the tanker truck, the brand specific additive package is added. This is when it becomes BP or Shell or Texaco or so on.
The difference is in the additives. And yes the additives do make a difference, and do matter.
I only use Top Tear gas, it has better additives.
Thanks for the good info. Am buying ethanol free premium here (Murphy) for the bike now since a local station offers it. Premium no ethanol was only available locally as marine gas from marinas until a few months ago. Noticed mileage is better. Have bought ethanol free regular (Shell) for years for the smaller gas engines. Still use fuel treatment for that since it is stored in cans.
Long time back - 1970s - I worked at a Conoco station. Tank truck was always Conoco but I recall they sold to some other stations in the area that were not Conoco brand, even back that far. There was a station across the interstate exit from us that was known for having bad gas - Skelley was the brand. Am guessing they had water leakage into their storage tanks as the real problem.
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I remember family trips in the car as a kid. Was always a treat to stop at a Stuckeys. I have no idea why they went out of business. I will never forget those billboards "Stuckeys, eat with us and get gas".
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I remember family trips in the car as a kid. Was always a treat to stop at a Stuckeys. I have no idea why they went out of business. I will never forget those billboards "Stuckeys, eat with us and get gas".
Well if we are going to go down memory lane, I remember the days I could put $3.00 of gas in my car and drive for a week. Now if I only put in $3.00, I'm lucky to make it home from the gas station. LOL. Remember the Sunoco 260 stations where I think you could blend your own gas at the pump. I just remember the big dial on the pump. There is a formula for blending different octane's to raise the octane level. I used the ethanol-free in my car for a while didn't seem to perform or get any better gas mileage.
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Ah the days of Sunoco 260....I think when the first V8 Camaros came out, they recommended the 260. I got used to using it, during those days and use it almost exclusively in my bike. At times I can't find Sunoco, the bike does not run so well. I think most Harleys will run best using the same brand of gas, rather than switching brands based on cost. Gas Buddy app is your friend!
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Though I do not run. CVO I always try and find a BP. Main reason is I have a BP Visa and they give you .10 a gallon discount when you use the BP Card at a BP station. I think the other gas companies do the same but do not want to carry a bunch of different cards.
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I remember the "gas wars". 32 cents a gallon on one side of the street and 29 cents on the other side. The lowest price I recall was 22 cents.
I don' think we had Sunoco here, but we had Texaco, Enco (now Exxon), Gulf (now Chevron), Sinclair, Mobil, and a few Phillips 66. My dads preference was Enco and would filler up with Ethel.
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Memory lane...
As a young whippersnapper one gas war in Hillsboro was at .19. Cheapest I can remember.
Conoco I worked at had 3 pumps & was full service. We had 3 tanks - premium, unleaded, and diesel. Diesel pump was stand alone. The other 2 pumps had 4 octanes of gas to dispense - 100% premium, Super (blend with more premium that unleaded), Regular (blend with more unleaded than premium), and Unleaded. The Unleaded was cheap gas & most of the 4 years I worked there the price was about .27. Last year it was in the .50 range & drivers were pissed. Price spread from Premium to Unleaded was maybe a dime.
All high performance cars used Premium & some used Super. We sold a lot of Regular, the Unleaded stuff was not so great. Had to wear a uniform with a hat. Wash windows, check oil, check tires - standard stuff. We gave away all sorts of freebies for fillups - bottle openers, pens, in car litter bags. I made $1.35/hour at the end of my last year. It was a different world.
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Shell v-power. No other, always. Try running a Harley on other fuels in very hot (say 110F) weather, and it will sound like a bag'o'wrenches. Then put V-Power in and appreciate the difference!
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Still have some of those litter bags and key rings.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200320/fff05d75fb0fd2cea62aff3beb65a959.jpg)
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Ah the days of Sunoco 260....I think when the first V8 Camaros came out, they recommended the 260. I got used to using it, during those days and use it almost exclusively in my bike. At times I can't find Sunoco, the bike does not run so well. I think most Harleys will run best using the same brand of gas, rather than switching brands based on cost. Gas Buddy app is your friend!
There are still some Sunoco stations around in FL, GA, AL and TN that I know of and have been to. Just not all over the place like they use to be.
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Top Tier Gasoline Providers
"TOP TIER™ Detergent Gasoline was first introduced in 2004 when a group of automakers recognized the need for a higher detergency gasoline standard than that required by regulation."
https://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?action=post;topic=120621.0;last_msg=1508426
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The only vehicles Ic have owned that have required Top Tier gas have been my 2014 Stingray and my 2018 Grand Sport. That said since 2014 top tier is the only gas I use in any of our cars, trucks or bikes.
Yes I can get Top Tier no ethanal 93 octane with in 10 miles of the house at Exxon.
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as a rule of thumb, i try to run BP, but the rental has the most forgiving motor/tune when it comes to fuel that i have had, it dont have any ill side effects to any fuel grade or brand... it even runs fine if i have to put ethanol in when there are no options available. and is always getting 38 to 41 mpg
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The only time we have had a issue is from Sam's club. both our 14 Roadking ping. Other wise we stick with name brand. Billy
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Here in BC.....93 no ethanol at Chevron is the first choice!
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As far as performance vs octane- VP racing gas has some great information on their web site. The bottom line one shoe does not fit all. You want the fuel to give up its energy at the most advantage point in the piston stroke. Often time high octane can burn longer and actually cause an engine to run hotter as the fuel energy is not optimized. Years ago, I believe it was HOT ROD magazine performed dyno pulls on basically stock, low compression v-8 and the lower octane 87 made more hp than 93 octane or even racing gas. It is important to note that there must be a high enough octane rating to prevent pre- detonation or pre-ignition ( both can be referred to as spark nock). I agree modern electronic systems can somewhat adjust for various fuels but the best scenario is when the physics are optimized.
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My 2017 3.5 eco boost truck gets 1 to 2 mpg better on 93 octane. However the increased cost of premium 93 and only a 2mpg gain makes it more economical to run 87. Also tried with 89.
But still even at 87, its always Top Tier gas
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In the overall scheme of things, people should be fine as long as they stick to branded fuel with a known source. I remember a few years back in my neck of the woods people were complaining about bad fuel that was causing problems in their vehicles. Turns out they were using a no-name gas station that was buying reclaimed gas and other crap of no known lineage. For those who don't know, "reclaimed" gas is the stuff they drain out of wrecked and abandoned vehicles, suck out of old in-ground tanks, etc.
Spend some time getting to know where your retailers get their fuel, if they are self branded. For instance, we have a regional fuel and convenience store chain called Luke's. Some of their stations are branded Shell stations, the rest buy their fuel from the local BP refinery and distributor. Others like Meijer get their fuel from Marathon or BP. When you come across the independent stations with names like "gas for less", be very wary. The reason I know some of this stuff has to do with a BP recall a few years ago. They had a big batch of gasoline that was bad and damaging engines, and they sold that fuel to many places other than BP stations. It was eye opening to a lot of people when a full list of their customers was published in regard to that recall.
Jerry