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Custom Vehicle Discussions => Screamin’ Eagle® Softail® Springer® => Topic started by: PHPracing on September 27, 2011, 07:16:06 PM
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i know this is my first thread, but ive asked my dealer that i bought it from many times and they have no idea why the motor is shutting off in the middle of a ride. mostly on hot days. i figured it was cause it was hot and the motor is keeping itself from over heating. since theres a whole thread on CVO springer. figured you guys can give me some input. what do you think?
Also, any of youhave a mustache bar for highway pegs? how do they look? if you do can you post a pic so i know if i want to get them on here or not
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PHPracing, I haven't had mine quit during riding but once around 3000 - 4000 mile mark it did quit after a hard ride as I pulled up to a stop sign. It didn't want to start again for about 5 minutes. Never figured it out and it hasn't done it again since then. Can't help you with the highway bars as mine is set up pretty minimalist. Take the time to introduce yourself on the new members introductions thread and a hearty welcome to the site from west Tennessee!
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Find a better shop and provide a more detailed description of the problem. Does the bike quit running completely, or does one cylinder stop firing when you come to a stop? Big difference, as one is a deadly safety problem that should be addressed immediately and the other is a normal function of the engine idle temperature management system (which can be turned off if you don't like it btw).
Jerry
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its shutting off completely. i know theres something wrong. i didnt think the rear cylinder shut off on mine. my dad had a CVO UC and i know his does it. i didnt think mine did it. the last time it did it was sunday. about half way thru Emilys ride. it was the 5th time it did it. my pops say that im hitting the kill switch. and i know where the kill switch is and i know im not hitting it cuz then it would be in the off position. every time since he said that ive been looking and thats not the problem. The harley dealership has never heard of it just shutting off like that and cant give me any info (what a great dealership right?) im thinkin it shutting off cause its getting to hot. my bike currently has almost 7k miles on it (bought it with 2600 back in may 2011). It not very often that it does it, and it wont do it twice in one day. i do do alot of rides with it and most days its all good, i listen to my ipod while i ride and i dont notice when it shuts off. i just notice when i go to get on the throttle and nothing happens. look down the rpm gauge reads 0 rpms. i think thats all the info i can give you guys cuz thats all i know.
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Is everything on the bike going dead, like no lights, no indicators on the speedo/tach, etc, or is it just the engine quitting? I assume (I wouldn't assume the dealer checked this) that you've checked the battery connections to make sure they are clean/tight?
This happened to my Vrod once...dead as a doornail. Checked everything I could on the side of the road and found nothing wrong...ended up being a bad ground on the bike (not the battery connections). Fortunately, I was out in the country when this happened and not in the middle lane of the interstate running 75mph. Something like this could get you killed if it happens in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Sounds like maybe you need to turn the Ipod down a smidge if you can't tell if a HD 110" motor is running...I'm just sayin'... ;)
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I had an 2003 roadglide that I had to change a fuse from 40a to 50a once. I forget why but it only blew the fuse when it got hot.
Wish I could help more
Marty
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no everything seemed fine. lights and the red light tint on the tach and speedo where fine. its just the motor that shut off. as if i did hit the kill switch and the motor shut off. i was on a ride and there was someone next to me with some V&H pipes so thats all i was hearing the whole time i was riding. she had an obnoxious horn too that she was honking while we were passing people. plus my headphones arnt all that great so i get alot of air into the headphone and can barley hear them while I'm riding anyways. but one time before i found out about wearing headphones, it did it and it seemed as if the motor wasn't getting enough gas to it kinda putts then shuts off. i wasn't even able to push in the clutch cause hen i did it died. but it only seems to do it when its hot. and does that rear jug shut off while idling to keep it from over heating. i know my dads does but i dint know if mine does it to. all the maintenance has been done by HD, everytime i take it in they say its fine. i know there was a recall on it but before i bought it they had the recall done already. I'm really not sure what i should do, if HD says theres no problems and i cant tell them when it happens cause it happens so rarely, i cant just go up to them and say" ride it around for a bit and it'll happen" cause it probably wont
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i havent checked that. do you know what fuse it was? ive had to change a fuse before but it was for the headlights shorting out, i was on a thursday night ride and it was getting dark and since its illegal to ride w.o. headlights i had to change it and miss the ride.
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It's not a fuse ( I think 110 Mofo was thinking of the old circuit breaker problem, and the newer bikes don't have that circuit breaker). If a fuse blows and thus kills your engine, it would never start again until you changed the fuse.
You really need to find a good technician at a good shop (obviously not your dealership) to perform some real diagnostics rather than just more guesswork. This sort of thing can kill you if it happens in the wrong place at the wrong time, so you need to take it seriously.
Good luck.
Jerry
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I have never heard of this problem, I have 48k km on my 07 Springer.
My engine did die the other day but that was because I almost ran out out gas, almost didnt make it home, gas tank dropped to the last LED just as I passed the petrol station Wurenlos, engine died going up hill on the Autobahn near Seebach, braked sharply to get the petrol up the front of the tank to transfer from one side to the other, the engine ran again, died again a few Km later on the exit to Dubi, ran again to the Shell gas station but it was closed and no cc payment option, managed to feather the bike home lol
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Not that I would recommend you start swapping out parts without first doing the diagnostic legwork - but a crank sensor going bad can periodically shut the motor off without leaving any codes behind....
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I would replace your fuel filter as a starting point and run some fuel injection cleaner. Your bike sat a long time before you bought it and it may be related to fuel sitting in your tank/injectors for long periods of time.
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PHP...have you noticed whether it does this when it's getting to any certain level of fuel in the tank, like maybe 1/2 tank or less?
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i never really thought about it but yeah it could be that its an 07 and when i bought it, the dealer had it for about 6 weeks. but they always started it and put it outside for show. but before then i think it went from dealer to dealer with no buyers. the guy before me bought it put some upgrades and only put 2600 miles on it. so it might be the fuel cleaner having some gunk in it. and i alway put gas in it before a long run so i dont run out of gas. and i dont ride much at night.
On another note, has anyone had problems with the gas gauge flashing at times? i fixed that problem but there was a time there where i had to estimate when i needed gas.
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The 110B motor on your Springer is not equipped with the rear cylinder cut off as it is on the A model that come on the bagger models. I also agree that a faulty crank position sensor can cause these same symptoms you're having. I would at least trace the crank position sensor wiring harness to where it plugs in and check that the connector is seated properly. Good luck
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My 2007 FLHX had same issues, dealer changed out check valve assembly and all is good. Wausau Harley keeps them in stock they say its a commom problem along with the fuel line rubbing through in the fuel tank. JMO
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I'm having this issue on my 09 Springer. Mine shuts off when I come to a stop. Definitely not a heat issue as it just happened on a short ride and it's only low 50's outside.
Did you find out what your problem was? Mine seems to be running rich also. Taking it in tomorrow. Mine might be the tune.
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"The 110B motor on your Springer is not equipped with the rear cylinder cut off as it is on the A model that come on the bagger models.
My response:
The "Parade Mode" rear cylinder cutoff was active on my 110B engine when I bought it new in 2007.
The dealer said it would be $300. to remove that feature.......I went right to my salesman and told him that
I had seen a bulletin saying it was FREE to remove on a one time basis, he went back to the service dept and
they looked it up on their computer..... yes...I got it for free that same day.
Richard
:pineapple: :pineapple: :pineapple:
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More info on this topic.....Richard................... :pineapple:
Quote from: Majorrocky on April 22, 2009, 07:49:07 PM
I recently dropped my '08 SERK at the local dealer to have some passing lamps installed, turn signals relocated, etc. While I was there I made the statement that if there were any downloads available for this bike to go ahead and take care of it. One of the mechanics at the same dealer had mentioned several weeks ago that there was one available that would fix a problem that I had experienced (if you cut the bike of with the ignition switch first instead of the run / off switch on the handlebars there is a possiblity that the throttle by wire (?) may not have time to set the idle all the way down and when you crank it back up it runs at a constant high idle, requiring some magic combination of the ignition switch and run / off buttons to reset it).
Anyway, I digress... when I picked the bike up today I was told that there was indeed a "chargeable" code download available and that they had performed the update. I didn't catch the word "chargeable" until I went to pay the bill and even then it didn't really sink in.
I now wonder if I just got taken to the cleaners... The charge for that update was $149.95 (give or take with labor & local shop discounts, taxes, etc.). The charge code on the invoice was 33237-08C/DT.
Can anyone explain to me exactly what that update was / what it does and more importantly why I should have to pay $149.95 for a system update on a bike that I've had less than 9 months and has only a little over 3K miles on it? If there's a reason then so be it, I'd just like to understand it a little better.
I work in the I.T. field and when there's a system update available to fix issues with a computer it is generally made available for free. I'm gathering that's not the case with bikes?
Any insight anyone could provide me would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Major
Ride On...................
My response:
I had them remove the parade mode as I felt it was unsafe. When i asked them to do it, the first thing out of their mouth was '$350.00"
I told them (dealer) that on the Harley Davidson Web site it states a one time "FREE" download to remove that feature.
After I talked with the General Manager he then talked to the Service Manager and they completed it at "no Charge".
You might check the website also and maybe could find more about your download.
Good luck and you know everyone on this site will be watching and giving you some expert advice.
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OK, now I really confused. It was my understanding that the 110B engine did not have the Single cylinder "parade mode". Also, I thought that on the 110A engines equipped with that feature, that there was a switch somewhere on the handlebar controls that allowed for the rider to turn the "parade mode" on or off at their discretion. I have the 110B on my 08 springer and do not have any type of switch or recall any discussion of this feature in my owners manual or service manual. Did I miss something? Mine has never ran on one cylinder and I would never want it too. Also, I don't have any visible deactivation switch on my handlebars. If the 08 110B engines have this feature, I would like to have it disarmed. I feel like an idiot for not knowing.
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OK, now I really confused. It was my understanding that the 110B engine did not have the Single cylinder "parade mode". Also, I thought that on the 110A engines equipped with that feature, that there was a switch somewhere on the handlebar controls that allowed for the rider to turn the "parade mode" on or off at their discretion. I have the 110B on my 08 springer and do not have any type of switch or recall any discussion of this feature in my owners manual or service manual. Did I miss something? Mine has never ran on one cylinder and I would never want it too. Also, I don't have any visible deactivation switch on my handlebars. If the 08 110B engines have this feature, I would like to have it disarmed. I feel like an idiot for not knowing.
ON FL's you can activate it or de-activate it at idle. With the cruise control off, roll the throttle forward past stop and hold it. The cruise control light will flash orange meaning the system is de-activated.
Roll it forward again and it will flash green meaning the system is activated, so you can turn it off or on at will. Of course, even if it's on, the engine temp sensor has to get hot enough to kick it in.
07-08 FX models, I believe the feature has to be De-activated by the dealer.(ECM)
I don't understand why it's only on the FL series bikes and not ALL the bikes. (I guess because of the cruise control??)
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There is no handlebar switch for the EITMS. The Touring models, starting in 2008, incorporated Electronic Throttle Control. In December of 2007 Harley added the capability for the rider to enable or disable the EITMS using the throttle grip. Only models with ETC can be enabled or disabled by the rider, all others require a calibration download from the dealer.
See the attachment for a description of the change and the instructions on how to enable or disable the system. I can think of absolutely no reason to disable the system, especially if you've had your bike tuned so that it doesn't run extremely hot.
Jerry
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There is no handlebar switch for the EITMS. The Touring models, starting in 2008, incorporated Electronic Throttle Control. In December of 2007 Harley added the capability for the rider to enable or disable the EITMS using the throttle grip. Only models with ETC can be enabled or disabled by the rider, all others require a calibration download from the dealer.
See the attachment for a description of the change and the instructions on how to enable or disable the system. I can think of absolutely no reason to disable the system, especially if you've had your bike tuned so that it doesn't run extremely hot.
Jerry
I also liked this thread................ http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=69187.0;attach=205686;image
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There is no handlebar switch for the EITMS. The Touring models, starting in 2008, incorporated Electronic Throttle Control. In December of 2007 Harley added the capability for the rider to enable or disable the EITMS using the throttle grip. Only models with ETC can be enabled or disabled by the rider, all others require a calibration download from the dealer.
See the attachment for a description of the change and the instructions on how to enable or disable the system. I can think of absolutely no reason to disable the system, especially if you've had your bike tuned so that it doesn't run extremely hot.
Jerry
Precisely, as always.
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Precisely, as always.
Here is the reason I have it disabled on both of mine.
Both of my Screamin Eagles have that feature turned off. I feel it is a unsafe feature and as I was making a right turn from
a stop sign, halfway thru the engine coughed and stalled, Just about dropped it!
There are many posts......here is one...
http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=29885.0
Richard
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Here is the reason I have it disabled on both of mine.
Both of my Screamin Eagles have that feature turned off. I feel it is a unsafe feature and as I was making a right turn from
a stop sign, halfway thru the engine coughed and stalled, Just about dropped it!
There are many posts......here is one...
http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=29885.0
Richard
Funny thing about that, I had the same problem on my stock 2005 that didn't have EITMS at all, and it was due to the lousy factory calibration. I'd suggest the really lean spot off idle that Harley had in their calibrations was the real culprit. A slight tweak to my map completely eliminated the problem.
Even if you tried to idle away from a stop, there are multiple triggers that cause the rear cylinder to resume firing (detailed in the bulletin I think) other than just throttle opening. The earliest examples ('07 and early '08) weren't calibrated and integrated all that well, as is true with anything Harley introduces since it takes them a couple years of road testing by customers before they get all the bugs worked out. But the recent bikes seem to be OK. Of course the choice is yours, but I don't think it's doing others a service by claiming the system is a safety problem. It is a useful response to a real problem, namely overheating of the rear cylinders due to insufficient air flow and lean mixtures. It reminds me a little of the original GM idea of the 4-6-8 engine that cut out cylinders under certain conditions to improve fuel economy. The first attempts were not all that great, but with modern electronics the idea works virtually seamlessly. IMHO, the EITMS is an effective bandaid for the high heat problem Harley has with their 100 year old engine design, at least until they join the 21st century. Anyone who disables it needs to be aware of the hazards of sitting at idle for long periods of time or getting stuck in heavy slow traffic, and take manual measures to respond to the problem since they've eliminated the automatic measures.
Jerry
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Funny thing about that, I had the same problem on my stock 2005 that didn't have EITMS at all, and it was due to the lousy factory calibration. I'd suggest the really lean spot off idle that Harley had in their calibrations was the real culprit. A slight tweak to my map completely eliminated the problem.
Even if you tried to idle away from a stop, there are multiple triggers that cause the rear cylinder to resume firing (detailed in the bulletin I think) other than just throttle opening. The earliest examples ('07 and early '08) weren't calibrated and integrated all that well, as is true with anything Harley introduces since it takes them a couple years of road testing by customers before they get all the bugs worked out. But the recent bikes seem to be OK. Of course the choice is yours, but I don't think it's doing others a service by claiming the system is a safety problem. It is a useful response to a real problem, namely overheating of the rear cylinders due to insufficient air flow and lean mixtures. It reminds me a little of the original GM idea of the 4-6-8 engine that cut out cylinders under certain conditions to improve fuel economy. The first attempts were not all that great, but with modern electronics the idea works virtually seamlessly. IMHO, the EITMS is an effective bandaid for the high heat problem Harley has with their 100 year old engine design, at least until they join the 21st century. Anyone who disables it needs to be aware of the hazards of sitting at idle for long periods of time or getting stuck in heavy slow traffic, and take manual measures to respond to the problem since they've eliminated the automatic measures.Jerry
Yes, it is just for my use only, on my two Harleys, I am painfully aware of riding in the heat and have installed an oil cooler on the 2007 FXSTSSE and the oil temp gauge on 2010 UCSE. The info you enclosed will help "dlaws01" make a choice if he wants to disable this feature as he was not aware of it.
My 2007 FXSTSSE had so many problems,I just wanted one less thing to fail also...after 6 recalls, the factory installed a new 2009 110 engine and has been running great since.
I had oil coolers on my 1955 FL and my 1965 FLH and my 1974 FX and my 1993 FXDL.
Richard
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Could be a faulty ignition switch or kill switch...
napalm