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CVO Technical => Twin Cam => Topic started by: Jordan1200 on May 23, 2020, 06:19:01 AM
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Well, I was on my way to Whitby the afternoon after work and got stuck in a major accident traffic jam. The traffic had started moving and all of a sudden the bike started making a nasty mechanical noise and I notice the oil light come on flickering and then solid
and the oil pressure dropped right off I immediately pulled over and turned the bike off.
I checked the oil, it was full....
I let the bike cool for about 30 min. And tried to turn it over to see if it was siezed.
It did start right up but the oil light wouldn't turn off unless I revved it up some. So I turned it off again and had it towed home because the dealer is closed. By the time the bike was off the flatbed it was cool. So I teied to start it to see if anything changed. It had, the soul light went off immediately.
As far as I am concerned, the bike oil pressure should never drop to zero psi..
No matter how hot it is...
I have heard of bikes getting really hot in stop and go traffic but a total drop off of oil pressure.....
The metallic noises I heard didn't sit well with me...
I do have an ESP but I am wondering what the dealer will find if anything because the oil pressure was back. If they don't tear it apart and I have a problem after my warranty runs out( next spring). I am stuck with a major repair.
If they do tear it apart and find nothing, I am stuck with a major repair bill... I am nervous to ride it not wanting to possibly cause more damage.
Frustrated and confused
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Unfortunately it's not uncommon for oil pressure to drop to or near zero when you get a Twin Cam extremely hot. Sitting still or barely moving in traffic doesn't move enough air over the cylinders and heads to effectively cool the engine. Combined with a stock fuel map, sitting at idle can quickly overheat the engine and oil.
What type and viscosity oil are you using? I highly recommend a good quality synthetic in 20w50 (or 20w60 in very hot conditions). Synthetics hold up much better at high temps. Do you have the EITC (engine idle temperature control) system engaged so the rear cylinder shuts down at idle at high temps? If not, consider turning it on.
If you find yourself in traffic jams fairly often, you might want to consider engine cooling fans and/or a fan assisted oil cooler. Also consider shutting the engine down when stopped dead in the water, so to speak. Use the run/stop switch to keep everything else powered up for quicker restart when it's time to move again. I've always done that when stopped for things like trains.
Since you shut it down quickly and didn't just keep riding slowly along while the pressure was zero, I doubt you did any serious damage.
JMHO - Jerry
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Hey thanks for the response. I run Lucas 20w-50 full Synthetic. I have a stage 1 map from a street tuner.
The dealer will want to open it up that is the part that scares me, if they don't find anyt5i am on the hook for 5-6 hours labour. If they do, maybe weeks before I get it back with the way HD gets it's parts from the USA now. No Canada warehouses
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For me ...ESP has been very good to have..... a complete rebuild of the motor and trans at 65,000 km....2 compensators, wheel bearings, a chain tensioner, a rear tire, and a bunch of little things. That was on the first ESP. I have put another 5 years on and already have had a new compensator installed......and the motor trans does not feel right and makes some noises....but, of course....is completely normal.
I would not own a Harley without protection!
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1. Do not call the dealer yet.
2. Change the oil. Perhaps a good 20W60.
3. Go for a ride.
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Put a manual gauge on the outlet where the sender is at. Verify it is actually low. If so it needs to come apart.
Likely cause is a stuck oil pressure relief valve poppet.
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This video sold me on Amsoil I use it now in the motor. I've got well hot but the oil pressure held
https://youtu.be/XSnKTpGt1k0
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what kind of mileage on the bike? If over 20K miles then I would definitely consider changing the lifters as they have been a common problem.
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What year bike?
On the 2000-2016 you might consider a shin in the camp plate or an S&S cam plate this solved my pressure issues here in FL with the heat now I am never under 10 lbs at idle and if you combine the plate with say an oil cooler like Jagg or Ultra cool it will help even more. To go one step further you can also add in the fans that go where the horn is luv jugs??? This will really help. Choices and money
Edited to correct to say Shim not shrimp in cam plate
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Question, when I told the dealer what happened and asked what would they do to the bike the person at the service desk said they would let the bike run outside until it got hot to see if it would do it again. Run it for line an hour. That didn't seem like a good idea to me. Running the bike outside and let's see if we can starve it of oil... so nobody will be watching it I am sure.. is that really a way to check it when I made a colossal effort to get it turned off asap??
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No, it isn't, it's a blow-off tactic at best. No place I've ever been to would actually assign a tech to spend an hour or more watching it run while checking oil pressure, and just letting it sit in the lot running wouldn't be smart on their part anyway (don't imagine anyone would just jump on and ride away?). The more likely scenario would be the old time sun bath treatment, where the bike sits in the lot all day and when the customer calls or comes in to ask what they found, they say it wouldn't do it for them. That tactic has been around forever.
There is no way I can see the ESP folks authorizing the dealership to go on a fishing expedition to see if any damage occurred, but they are the people you need to talk to, not just the dealership service writer. Check your ESP documentation and find a contact number for customer service.
Jerry
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I spoke to them when it happened while on the roadside. They suggested I have it towed to a dealers and have them check it. I was thinking to drop all the fluids and check the plug magnets to also save the money of the dealer doing it.However, then the dealer may say they wanted to see the oils and drain plug materials as part of the diagnostic. .
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Had that happen on my 12 many times on trips in the summer when we were stopped for roadwork on hot new blacktop. I run 20w50 synthetic so I am not worried much about oil breakdown. I always turned it off or kept the rpms up a little to keep light off depending on if I was stopped or stop and go. As soon as you get back to speed and cool it down for a few miles the light goes off when idling and all is ok. Bike was at 35K miles when I sold it no issues ran great. It worried me when it first happened and in researching it somewhere on here I saw that the light comes on before zero psi and gage is only so accurate. so you may not have been at zero. I found enough info at the time I decided to change the oil after it happened (which was usually on a long trip so it was due a change anyhow) and keep riding it. The 15 doesn't seem to do it must be the wet head.
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Good to know, Time for an oil cooler I think. I have a Jagg 10 row side mount (Jagg4700) from my sporty, Softail oil cooler but wonder if it would really be worth it as it has no fan that helps in stop and go traffic?
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you may also want to consider getting a proper dyno-tune. The canned map could be running lean (delete rich - my bad), especially if it's an EPA-compliant map.
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Generally EPA complaint canned maps are too lean and not too rich, but that shouldn't have much effect on this situation.
As others have noted, Twin Cam oil pressure can drop very low when returning to idle when very hot. Seems to be inherent to the design, even with the improved oil pumps. Can't be too good for the engine, but with that said, mine has done this and still runs tip top with no oil blowby or remarkable loss of compression.
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I am running the EPA stage 1 SE street tuner map with street tuned update... I only have SE slip-on and SE backing plate for now until my esp runs out. It runs out in spring but will mostly like wait until this winter. I have a supertrapp Supermeg and power vision waiting. Looking into cams.
Wouldn't the EPA map be lean not rich...
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Lean creates excessive heat, not rich. Rich in fact has a cooling effect.
Jerry