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[Robert1]

I purchased a 2019 Limited recently
I questioned the dealer and was told the 2019 did not have any problems with sumping the issue was resolved
I put 940 km (584 miles) on the bike and the dealer picked it up due to sumping
They have now had it for about 3 weeks i am waiting on the new motor (I insisted a new new motor or they could keep the bike)
The dealer tells me they have torn the motor down and checked everything and can find no reason as to why this has happened
The engine got hot enough that it melted some of the brackets above the engine
After doing some research i can not seem to find any real solution or any feed back from Harley or the dealership as to what to do with this
I do alot of long rides and i am worried about being stranded in the middle of no where with a brand new bike

All this for a bike that is 4 days old

[guppytrash]

I purchased a 2019 Limited recently
I questioned the dealer and was told the 2019 did not have any problems with sumping the issue was resolved
I put 940 km (584 miles) on the bike and the dealer picked it up due to sumping
They have now had it for about 3 weeks i am waiting on the new motor (I insisted a new new motor or they could keep the bike)
The dealer tells me they have torn the motor down and checked everything and can find no reason as to why this has happened
The engine got hot enough that it melted some of the brackets above the engine
After doing some research i can not seem to find any real solution or any feed back from Harley or the dealership as to what to do with this
I do alot of long rides and i am worried about being stranded in the middle of no where with a brand new bike

All this for a bike that is 4 days old

Sorry to hear of your problems.  I was hoping the 2019 was cured of the sumping problems.
The dealer not finding a reason as to why this has happened is probably true. 
It seems not even HD knows why. 
I know this probably does not help, but there are several owners here who say they have had no problems.
I hope your new motor puts you in that category.

[MCE]

They probably know. They're just not telling.

[grc]

They probably know. They're just not telling.

If Harley doesn't know, they are even more incompetent than I've always assumed they were.  There is no doubt they or their outside consultants know exactly what's causing the sumping issue.  There is also no doubt a real fix would require a redesign that would cost big bucks and put them on the hook for some serious warranty costs when the guys with older bikes found out about the redesign.  Band-Aids are all you will get.  Just think about all the other long term problems they've had that never received a proper fix.  The list is long.

JMHO - Jerry

[Tn.Heritage]

I purchased a 2019 Limited recently
I questioned the dealer and was told the 2019 did not have any problems with sumping the issue was resolved
I put 940 km (584 miles) on the bike and the dealer picked it up due to sumping
They have now had it for about 3 weeks i am waiting on the new motor (I insisted a new new motor or they could keep the bike)
The dealer tells me they have torn the motor down and checked everything and can find no reason as to why this has happened
The engine got hot enough that it melted some of the brackets above the engine
After doing some research i can not seem to find any real solution or any feed back from Harley or the dealership as to what to do with this
I do alot of long rides and i am worried about being stranded in the middle of no where with a brand new bike

All this for a bike that is 4 days old

Let me make a suggestion. Durwood found on his that when he lowered the amount of oil he ran it took care of the sumping issue he was having. He say's he cannot make his engine sump now. If you take a Twin Cam dip stick and compare it to the M8 stick, they are the same in length but the twin cam would show over full and the M8 want. Make sense, this could also be the reason the M8 engine isn't breathing properly. Just run about 3.5 qts. in it and see if it sumps, bet it want.

[mark]

It's hard to believe 1/2 qt of oil would make a difference, but maybe so.  You'd think if that cured sumping, the MoCo could have saved itself lots of money and grief by issuing a service bulletin with this as the suggested max amount of oil.

[Para Bellum]

Durwood found on his that when he lowered the amount of oil he ran it took care of the sumping issue he was having.

From your lips...

Sadly, from what we know about the M8 crankcase oil return location, it doesn't seem like less oil will do it.  It sure helped with oil usage on my TC, but the M8 seems to be a different cause (and effect).

[OBB]

Let me make a suggestion. Durwood found on his that when he lowered the amount of oil he ran it took care of the sumping issue he was having. He say's he cannot make his engine sump now. If you take a Twin Cam dip stick and compare it to the M8 stick, they are the same in length but the twin cam would show over full and the M8 want. Make sense, this could also be the reason the M8 engine isn't breathing properly. Just run about 3.5 qts. in it and see if it sumps, bet it want.

For some reason I thought the M8 took more oil than the TC. After a brief search, I didn't find a concrete answer and don't have the time to pull up the HD site. I'm wondering if that is true, it would account for the different hash marks on the dipstick.

Sent from my boring Droid phone.

[Tn.Heritage]

From your lips...

Sadly, from what we know about the M8 crankcase oil return location, it doesn't seem like less oil will do it.  It sure helped with oil usage on my TC, but the M8 seems to be a different cause (and effect).

Have you then lowered your oil level by 1qt, not 1/2 qt but 1 full qt ? Fill a lawnmower a qt or so too full and see what happens. Again I'm only reporting on thread that Durwood was reporting on at HTT. He's the guy that dyno's them and builds engines so he's done his research.

[Para Bellum]

Have you then lowered your oil level by 1qt, not 1/2 qt but 1 full qt ? Fill a lawnmower a qt or so too full and see what happens. Again I'm only reporting on thread that Durwood was reporting on at HTT. He's the guy that dyno's them and builds engines so he's done his research.

It would help if you put up a link to Durwood's report so all of us can reference the same info.

I understand you were just repeating what Durwood said, but now you are (1) comparing a lawnmower one quart too full to an M8 or TC running at the designed oil level; (2) comparing the TC breather/oil usage problem to the M8 sumping.  Both of those statements are comparing apples to kangaroos.

[skratch]

For some reason I thought the M8 took more oil than the TC. After a brief search, I didn't find a concrete answer and don't have the time to pull up the HD site. I'm wondering if that is true, it would account for the different hash marks on the dipstick.

Sent from my boring Droid phone.

yep, the m8 has a significantly higher capacity than the twin cam.

[grc]

Yup, the M8 water cooled touring models take 5.0 quarts (4.75 service), and the oil cooled touring models take 5.2 quarts (spec also shows 4.75 at service).  I read that as initial fill of a dry engine takes 5.0 (5.2 oil cooled) quarts, they both take 4.75 quarts during a complete service (oil and filter).  The Twin Cam touring models had a 4.0 quart capacity, and depending on how you drained the oil it was common to have about six to eight ounces left in the engine.  Anyway you look at it, the M8 takes an extra quart versus a TC, plus or minus a few ounces.

Jerry

[Robert1]

I do not think i will be dropping the oil level in the bike without direction from Harley as this would void the warranty in all likely hood
I am told that all dealers are now required to plug the bikes into a computer each time they come in so Harley can down load all the data, and if they see something done they do not approve of they are going to deny warranty claims
I just got an update on the bike that it is going to be another 2 weeks minimum before i get it back making it a bike i rode for 4 days which is going to be in the shop for 6-8 weeks
I can not believe after buying Harleys most expensive bike they do not confirm the sumping and just automatically ship another engine and sort out why on there own time and not make us wait forever to get our bikes back on the road
This is a known issue and they need to stop dragging it out for the consumer

[mark]

I do not think i will be dropping the oil level in the bike without direction from Harley as this would void the warranty in all likely hood
I am told that all dealers are now required to plug the bikes into a computer each time they come in so Harley can down load all the data, and if they see something done they do not approve of they are going to deny warranty claims
I just got an update on the bike that it is going to be another 2 weeks minimum before i get it back making it a bike i rode for 4 days which is going to be in the shop for 6-8 weeks
I can not believe after buying Harleys most expensive bike they do not confirm the sumping and just automatically ship another engine and sort out why on there own time and not make us wait forever to get our bikes back on the road
This is a known issue and they need to stop dragging it out for the consumer

Well Robert, I'll tell you why.  Because historically the MoCo was able to deliver bikes with engineering flaws and their loyal customer based gobbled them up - even paying out of their own pocket to fix flaws.  When the loyal base became tired of putting up with these flaws, they rewarded the MoCo by trading for a new bike.  That business model continues..old habits are hard to break for the MoCo. 

[timo482]

actually there is a minimum oil line and a max oil line - the computer can't tell one from the other. i have always run harleys somewhere in the middle. and have always heard of folks with problems if run right at the top.   most of the paperwork for all my bikes said "do not add oil till its at the add line"

and yes - when something goes wrong its often half a year of it in the shop and the owner making payments and taking depreciation.   all that said ive found all of mine to be reliable and long lasting - i always run stock, base displacement, engine - and moderate duration improving items - like oil coolers etc clear back to my first one right out of high school.  the hot rod harleys were always trouble.