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CVO Technical => Twin Cam => Topic started by: greentp99 on August 11, 2018, 01:49:26 AM

Title: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: greentp99 on August 11, 2018, 01:49:26 AM
Thought I would share some info about my new motor build and the dyno pull.

Original motor build:
CVO 110 with 10.5:1 pistons
MVA HEADS
58mm throttle body
SE High flow injectors
SE585 cams
SE cam plate
SE oil pump
SE lifters
Rinehart tru-duals exhaust

New motor build:
SE 117 with 10.5:1 pistons
MVA HEADS
58mm throttle body
SE High flow injectors
TTS 150 cams
S&S cam plate
S&S Oil pump
S&S Lifters
S&S Rolling rockers
S&S Fly wheel
Rinehart tru-duals exhaust
Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: Hoel Motors on August 11, 2018, 07:20:45 PM
Thinking about doing the same build on my 110 also
Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: HD Street Performance on August 11, 2018, 09:22:42 PM
There are good reasons to port the original heads.
Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: greentp99 on August 11, 2018, 09:49:46 PM
That’s correct. The stock cvo 110 head will probably give you better results.
Also the fullsac exhaust will probably perform better than my exhaust.
I already had the MVA heads so I stayed with them.
Could probably get more torque with the stock heads but the trade off gives me nice flow at higher rpms.
Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: imoo6170 on August 12, 2018, 08:21:18 PM
Nice looking results
Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: TIMINATOR on August 12, 2018, 10:47:45 PM
I am the guy that started the thread on cam companies not publishing specs anywhere on their cams. I still believe that you can't know if you have good HP numbers, or what to really expect unless you know all of the cam specs and actual head flow. Same deal with throttle bodies, and flow numbers. Don't tell me how great it is, back it up with real published flow numbers, and at what depression the numbers are generated at! Also due to the fact that almost nobody has a cam analyzer, some cam companies advertise what specs their cams are, but they are in fact bigger.  That's why "you have to use only our special springs with our special cams." This practice was very prevalent in the automotive industry during the 1970s and later during the so-called "Cam Wars."
We do not install, sell, or recommend any cams without published numbers. and we do have a cam analyzer.
With all of that said, and no published cam specs that I could find anywhere, I couldn't tell if your HP numbers are good or not.
Having the cam analyzer allows us to see what the cam actually is, and whether the published specs are correct. It keeps everybody honest.  As the data guys say: "Garbage in = Garbage out."   TIMINATOR
Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: TIMINATOR on August 12, 2018, 10:55:07 PM
P.S. the MVA heads provide a torque and HP gain over the 110 heads. This is because the MVAs have a lesser volume in the intake runner size to keep the intake velocity higher, and they also out flow the 110 heads too. To get the same results with a 110 head you have to fill the intake runners and grind in other places and then install the 2.120" intake valves. Just buy the MVAs, do a small amount of touch up work, and be done with them. That's why the MVAs start with a different casting.   TIMINATOR
Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: greentp99 on August 12, 2018, 11:19:29 PM
Not really sure what that rant was about. Gave the build with measured result.
Nobody is debating cam specs and measured air flows.

Just showing results with parts installed. Doesn’t need to go much deeper than that unless you want to start hypothetically swapping parts and speculating on outcome.

Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: HD Street Performance on August 19, 2018, 04:47:55 PM
The kit from harley with stock heads se 259 cams no porting makes what?
Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: DOCGSS on August 20, 2018, 08:19:56 AM
I used the HD stage IV 117 kit unchanged, the SE High Flow SE Air cleaner, V & H True Duals Header and RC 4.5" slip ons, my dyno numbers were max Torque 123.85 @ 3900 rpm Max Power 113.24 @ 5830 rpm.
Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: HD Street Performance on August 20, 2018, 01:15:57 PM
That result could be improved a lot with a pipe change. True duals does not help any build.
Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: MCE on August 20, 2018, 03:57:44 PM
Thinking about doing the same build on my 110 also
A 110 making only 99 HP leaves lots of room for improvement. I've been getting 129/129
out of 110s using the factory's 103 ACR head.

And I would have agreed with the true duals statement up until recently. I got a sheet back from
a shop showing 127/127 with true duals on a 110 conversion with everything else pretty much the
same. So, IDK. True duals may not be as bad as I once thought. I've been wrong many times, add
one more.  :D

PS: Try some TMan 585s in that thing.
Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: HD Street Performance on August 20, 2018, 05:39:40 PM
Rineharts are stepped and ok. The true duals is more about the shape of the curve not necessarily the peak #s. Your result is consistent from what I have seen with ported 110 heads not mva. If a 117 can't hit 120 it is ailing. I have those in the 140sq area using the 110 heads and he 117 kit.
Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: TorqueInc on August 20, 2018, 07:40:33 PM
Still trying to figure out how a 110 head is larger (port volume)than a mva head
Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: TIMINATOR on August 20, 2018, 09:54:29 PM
C.C. an intake port on both, or read the Screamin' Eagle catalogue, it says it is smaller.
As for the "rant" if nobody knows the cam specs how do they know if the dyno numbers are good? 
My opinion only, and I have my own dyno and lots of pulls. But I can't correlate to anything else without all of the facts. I expected to see someone post cam specs, hasn't happened. Bye now.   TIMINATOR
Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: greentp99 on August 20, 2018, 09:58:25 PM
Not gonna get cam specs on TTS cams. Spoke to the man himself. Ain’t giving out numbers.
Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: TorqueInc on August 21, 2018, 03:08:42 AM
C.C. an intake port on both, or read the Screamin' Eagle catalogue, it says it is smaller.
As for the "rant" if nobody knows the cam specs how do they know if the dyno numbers are good? 
My opinion only, and I have my own dyno and lots of pulls. But I can't correlate to anything else without all of the facts. I expected to see someone post cam specs, hasn't happened. Bye now.   TIMINATOR

No need to read the se catalog or CC the port

Mva heads have a 93% throat id,2.12 intake 1.635 ex valve

110 heads are 2.08/1.623 and a 90% throat I'd

Running the CNC program for a mva head in a 110 casting it cleans up about 80%

Leaving a unmachined spot behind the guide and a dime size spot on the wall mirrored on both heads

So you must have read that
Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: MCE on August 21, 2018, 09:57:24 AM
Not gonna get cam specs on TTS cams. Spoke to the man himself. Ain’t giving out numbers.

Not all that hard to figure out if you really wanted to.
Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: MCE on August 21, 2018, 09:59:05 AM
No need to read the se catalog or CC the port

Mva heads have a 93% throat id,2.12 intake 1.635 ex valve

110 heads are 2.08/1.623 and a 90% throat I'd

Running the CNC program for a mva head in a 110 casting it cleans up about 80%

Leaving a unmachined spot behind the guide and a dime size spot on the wall mirrored on both heads

So you must have read that

(93% is too big. You'd need a 2.19 valve to make that work)
Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: HD Street Performance on August 21, 2018, 11:47:34 AM
Still trying to figure out how a 110 head is larger (port volume)than a mva head
I have had them side by side and measured. The floor and bowl dimensions are very different so they end up close to the same.
Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: greentp99 on August 21, 2018, 05:36:19 PM
Yeah... you are right. Someone can measure them and get the numbers. Just not me 😉
Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: TIMINATOR on August 21, 2018, 11:14:32 PM
Measured two sets side by side in the last 6 months. The ones on my bike (I bought the CVO 110 Breakout new as I also bought the MVA heads new)and the ones we put on a customers bike that he bought new, also a CVO110. Everything new untouched. I believe what I saw and several peeps verified. Both bikes picked up top end HP and midrange around 2000- 3000. Not saying that the MOCO or any other MOCO has had any running changes.  You believe what you see. We're cool.    TIMINATOR
Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: MCE on August 22, 2018, 11:07:16 AM
Here's my opinion. Take it or leave it...

Measuring and comparing port volumes (especially on these engines) is not that meaningful.
The CSA (cross sectional area) at the critical point(s) is WAAAY more important.

CC'ing Two ports and then trying to draw conclusions from that is a fools endeavor. It can, and
will, mislead you every time. It just isn't a meaningful enough measurement to draw any
specific conclusions from. (other than one port holds more liquid than the other. It doesn't
mean chit)

I rarely ever CC a port. If the air speeds, (Actual and theoretical) are where I'm shooting for then
I don't give a $hit about the port's CC. I may check it just to see what it is, but I NEVER use it
as a design parameter.

CSA and air speed is what counts. The total CC is a byproduct and a misleading one at that.
Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: HD Street Performance on August 22, 2018, 11:35:35 AM
Matt 100% agreement. Tim if your customer likes those mvas they could have more with a properly ported 110 head. The MVA needs work but can be brought around but it takes larger valve and more work and then the csa is big and it must be fitted to a large motor to get it to work best.
Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: MCE on August 22, 2018, 11:57:16 AM
+1
(Ported 110 heads would be my first choice for a large CI motor)

MVA heads are way too big imo. I've had to weld up the ports to make them
work right, I don't like jacking with them.
Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: cvo1717 on August 22, 2018, 12:14:54 PM
+1
(Ported 110 heads would be my first choice for a large CI motor)
I HAVE DONE SOME RESEARCH AND MY HEADS ARE THE 110 WITH PORT WORK AND IT SEEMS TO GET BETWEEN 12-16 HP MORE THAN THE MVA HEAD TQ ABOUT SAME
Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: greentp99 on August 22, 2018, 12:42:14 PM
Here is a question.

110 motor comes with SE 110 heads
120 motor comes with MVA Heads

Which head do you think matches better to a 117?
Would you swap the heads on the 120?
Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: HD Street Performance on August 22, 2018, 04:42:50 PM
I would not bank on 12-16 horsepower for many reasons but I am not saying that is impossible,  just not consistantly and repeatable with heads gone by all shops. Synod matter too. There are some generous ones out there
Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: MCE on August 22, 2018, 05:34:35 PM
I HAVE DONE SOME RESEARCH AND MY HEADS ARE THE 110 WITH PORT WORK AND IT SEEMS TO GET BETWEEN 12-16 HP MORE THAN THE MVA HEAD TQ ABOUT SAME

Moreover, compare the TQ curve over the entire RPM range. That's what air speed does for you. !muy importante!

(Was that dyno verified? Or butt dyno? Butt dynos lie even more than real ones) haha
ps: you can't make more HP without increasing the TQ (or RPM). It's one or the other.
Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: TorqueInc on August 23, 2018, 05:28:50 AM
Here is a question.

110 motor comes with SE 110 heads
120 motor comes with MVA Heads

Which head do you think matches better to a 117?
Would you swap the heads on the 120?

Stock as they come

The mva

Modified for the build ?

110 all day
Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: cvo1717 on August 23, 2018, 05:44:02 AM
Moreover, compare the TQ curve over the entire RPM range. That's what air speed does for you. !muy importante!

(Was that dyno verified? Or butt dyno? Butt dynos lie even more than real ones) haha
ps: you can't make more HP without increasing the TQ (or RPM). It's one or the other.

MY BIKE WAS DYNOED ON 2 SEPARATE DYNOS 2 DIFFERENT SHOPS AND WAS WITH IN 2-3 HP AND TQ OF EACH OTHER
Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: MCE on August 23, 2018, 09:12:36 AM
Stock as they come

The mva

Modified for the build ?

110 all day

+1
Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: MCE on August 23, 2018, 09:57:52 AM
MY BIKE WAS DYNOED ON 2 SEPARATE DYNOS 2 DIFFERENT SHOPS AND WAS WITH IN 2-3 HP AND TQ OF EACH OTHER

2-3 HP of each other doesn't tell me squat. I like to see the aggregate TQ over the entire RPM range.
You'll get a better idea of what's going on.
Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: cvo1717 on August 23, 2018, 03:04:50 PM
2-3 HP of each other doesn't tell me squat. I like to see the aggregate TQ over the entire RPM range.
You'll get a better idea of what's going on.
WHATEVER MY BIKE HAULS ASS
Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: MCE on August 23, 2018, 06:41:52 PM
Post some dyno sheets if you can. I'd be interested in seeing the differences. thanks
Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: donk_316 on August 26, 2018, 07:06:28 PM
Never mind dyno sheets, lets see the VE and timing maps!
Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: DOCGSS on August 27, 2018, 07:46:30 AM
I guess I did my Stage IV for a different reason than many. I was not trying to get the most HP or TQ possible; I was not trying to get thy fastest bike off the line. What I did want and what I told the Dyno tech, was the smoothest torque curve and the most rideable bike, similar to a luxury performance sports car rather than a muscle car, if that makes sense. What I got was a much more rideable, smoother bike than the 110, quicker and much smoother off the line, more torque and luxurious acceleration, and better gas mileage and cooler temps according to my Fuelpak 3 that I use just a an extra set of gauges. In short a better bike for me.

I know I probably could squeeze more out oh the build but I am happy. To each his own.
Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: greentp99 on August 27, 2018, 09:46:27 AM
That was my approach also. I think chasing HP and TQ peaks is a waste for most riders.
Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: MCE on August 27, 2018, 01:35:21 PM
That was my approach also. I think chasing HP and TQ peaks is a waste for most riders.

Peak numbers are for bench racers and bar talk.

The area under curve is what's important. What good is a big number in a very small RPM range?
Not much.

A nice, wide and flat TQ curve is what you want. That's what you feel while riding. I always laugh when
I see those TQ curves that looks like a big hump on a camel with nothing at the bottom (or top).

When the TQ just goes away and the HP falls way short of what the peak TQ is (We've all seen em) just
makes me cringe. 

FLAT TQ from about 2200 to 5000 is what I like, and it makes for a fun bike to ride. Just pick a gear and
open it up.

Getting all hung up on the peak numbers is foolish and a waste of time. lol
Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: MCE on August 27, 2018, 05:37:30 PM
Never mind dyno sheets, lets see the VE and timing maps!


Doesn't look like we'll be getting anything.  :nixweiss: "It hauls ass" i guess that's
all we need to know.
Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: davidw221 on August 27, 2018, 07:09:15 PM
Ya know all, I had all the motor and head work done, had it dynoed, still was slow heated up sluggish, purchased a HPI throttle body, now the bike runs like a stripped ass ape, my friends say what's your numbers, my answer is when I get on it it pulls my hands off the handle bars, that's fast enough for me.
Also the temps are really nice, no over heating, I'm happy as a lark when riding, also between 2k and 5K is as smooth as a baby's butt!
I also have a Thundermax, so I played the the settings to get the bike where I wanted it with AFR.
Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: MCE on August 27, 2018, 10:47:43 PM
Ya know all, I had all the motor and head work done, had it dynoed, still was slow heated up sluggish, purchased a HPI throttle body, now the bike runs like a stripped ass ape, my friends say what's your numbers, my answer is when I get on it it pulls my hands off the handle bars, that's fast enough for me.
Also the temps are really nice, no over heating, I'm happy as a lark when riding, also between 2k and 5K is as smooth as a baby's butt!
I also have a Thundermax, so I played the the settings to get the bike where I wanted it with AFR.

Whoever did your tune shouldn't have let it go out the door like that. just sayin.
Glad you got it figured out though. that's just f'ed up.
Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: cvo1717 on August 28, 2018, 05:50:08 AM


Doesn't look like we'll be getting anything.  :nixweiss: "It hauls ass" i guess that's
all we need to know.
WHY SHOULD I POST THE SHEETS SO YOU GUYS CAN RIP IT APART  AND SAY THINGS LIKE , THATS A HAPPY DYNO, WHAT SOFTWARE IS THAT ,IS IT UP TO DATE,ETC...
LETS  JUST LEAVE IT AT IT HAULS ASS
BTW THE SHEET IS ON HERE IF YOU DO A SEARCH
Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: MCE on August 28, 2018, 12:46:52 PM
I was interested in the shape of the TQ curve more than anything else, peak numbers don't mean much to me.
No big deal, I was just curious. (I fully understand where you're coming from though)

Have a nice day.

-Matt

PS: 126/131 is not out of line by any means, but yeah, I know how that can go around here ;)
Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: ScotW on August 28, 2018, 01:19:07 PM
IMHO Matt (MCE) is a very smart guy I would listen to his advice
Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: busarealfast on September 16, 2018, 10:30:49 AM
Does anyone have a dyno comparison of the cvo 110 to 117 se259 vs se585? About ready to pull the trigger.
Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: Ohio HD on September 16, 2018, 12:22:35 PM
Thanks for posting your results, it looks very good. I'm going to do basically the same build for a friends CVO, use the drop in 117 kit. SE58mm, TTS 150 cams, the OEM 110 heads ported, good exhaust system, unchosen as of now.

Makes for a great highway and back road machine. Lot's of usable power on tap.


I also have an older 117 in one of my bikes that's getting the TTS 150 cams, and an overhaul.
Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: Ohio HD on September 22, 2018, 03:25:03 PM
Thought I would share some info about my new motor build and the dyno pull.

Original motor build:
CVO 110 with 10.5:1 pistons
MVA HEADS
58mm throttle body
SE High flow injectors
SE585 cams
SE cam plate
SE oil pump
SE lifters
Rinehart tru-duals exhaust

New motor build:
SE 117 with 10.5:1 pistons
MVA HEADS
58mm throttle body
SE High flow injectors
TTS 150 cams
S&S cam plate
S&S Oil pump
S&S Lifters
S&S Rolling rockers
S&S Fly wheel
Rinehart tru-duals exhaust

Was this a CVO with the diaphragm clutch, or a newer CVO with the slipper clutch? Only reason I ask is just curious as to what may have been done to beef the clutch up for the added torque.

Thanks   
Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: MCE on September 24, 2018, 09:42:40 PM
Does anyone have a dyno comparison of the cvo 110 to 117 se259 vs se585? About ready to pull the trigger.

If those are your only Two cam options, go with the 259. (more overlap & more duration, more TDC lift
will all help with added cubes)
Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: Pan1 on September 26, 2018, 10:54:21 PM
Did i miss it? I don’t see the dyno charts. I would also make a cam descision based on the desire of more or less low and mid range torque and weight of the bike.
Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: HD Street Performance on September 27, 2018, 08:13:47 AM
I would keep in mind the pipe is not getting enough weight in the decision. If the compression corrected is ballpark low to midrange torque will be fine. If there is too much overlap it will suffer from reversion low. None of the HD E series cams have this issue right up to the 266.
Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: busarealfast on September 27, 2018, 01:35:43 PM
Out of the box kit with the advertised compression of 9.9 was what I was going to purchase. When I asked the dealer about the cam he mentioned I could get the 585 if desired over the 259. I was just curious what overlapping dyno pulls would reveal on the left side as I do like the pull of the 255 currently in the 110.
I also would like to know if fuel milage suffers dramatically with this kit as I does come with the larger throttle body & injectors.
Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: cvo1717 on September 27, 2018, 03:06:19 PM
Out of the box kit with the advertised compression of 9.9 was what I was going to purchase. When I asked the dealer about the cam he mentioned I could get the 585 if desired over the 259. I was just curious what overlapping dyno pulls would reveal on the left side as I do like the pull of the 255 currently in the 110.
I also would like to know if fuel milage suffers dramatically with this kit as I does come with the larger throttle body & injectors.
yes fuel milage goes down alot if you ride it like your supposed too :2vrolijk_21:
Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: HD Street Performance on September 29, 2018, 09:53:56 AM
yes fuel milage goes down alot if you ride it like your supposed too :2vrolijk_21:
The 259 will have you downshifting more often at that compression. It works much better at 10.7 or thereabouts. The 585 will be fine there at 9.9. The decision is formed by how you ride, the payload, and what are your goals. The dyno is not what we ride and  if the 259 is installed 7 tenths of a point low on compression even with 117" onboard the motor will be a little soft until 3k rpm, when compared to the 259 at the stock CR.
Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: busarealfast on September 29, 2018, 02:38:57 PM
Thanks HD street performance for your input.  I was thinking that would be the case with that compression especially since the cvo head ports are alot larger reducing the velocity at lower RPM. I was even pondering keeping the 255's in the 117. Has anyone tried that?
Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: Scott7d on September 29, 2018, 09:44:40 PM
I would think keeping the 255s would really hinder the potential based on what everything would cost. I'd rather stay 110" with a better cam and a few other odds and ends, than to go 117 and stick with the 255s.

Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: HD Street Performance on September 30, 2018, 09:57:14 AM
What has happened along the way though is the motor is now larger. The stock head is not big, the cross sectional area, for a 117" 2cyl. The stock SE255 at 9.9 would be dicey. Require a perfect tune with timing mods. But why? Everyone is so worried about "low end torque". Relax the motor is the equivalent of a 468" V8. It picked up low end torque by virtue of the size. The 259 cam was and is a big cam in a 96" motor is now calm and streetable at 117". Don't make the mistake of going too small with the cam. It will run very hot and ping. The SE585 is not too small, the SE255 is. There are many 240-245° cams that work well in this motor. If the heads are ported properly they will not lose low end torque either, just extend the torque curve and pull harder on top. Concentrate on a pipe choice that will match the performance you want too. Once some overlap is added (cam change) the motor will become more pipe sensitive. Get it to a great tuner and use a flash device, TTS, Direct Link, or Power Vision. the tuner decides. Do not lug the motor, downshift. Your crank and compensator will love you!
Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: MCE on October 01, 2018, 11:19:24 AM
I would think keeping the 255s would really hinder the potential based on what everything would cost. I'd rather stay 110" with a better cam and a few other odds and ends, than to go 117 and stick with the 255s.

The 255 is a smog cam, It has virtually NO overlap, (which is critical to producing power). 255s are not even
on my radar screen. They're garbage.
Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: jimcb1 on October 03, 2018, 04:03:51 PM
so the upgrade 117 from harley is not good
Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: BostonboyDH on October 04, 2018, 07:57:35 PM

  There is nothing wrong with HD's 117 big bore kit it just needs some tweeking
Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: MCE on October 10, 2018, 01:16:04 PM
The compression needs to be set to match the cam, if you don't do that, you won't get the desired results.
Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: busarealfast on October 11, 2018, 05:00:06 AM
So the 585 would be a better match than the 259 at the advertised 9.9 the screamin eagle kit has. Correct?
Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: jimcb1 on October 11, 2018, 11:00:33 AM
so what would be the perfect build
Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: donk_316 on October 11, 2018, 10:20:24 PM
Perfect would be the 117 kit but with 92cc CC and 0.030 head gasket.
Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: busarealfast on October 12, 2018, 07:57:10 AM
what is the stock cc?
Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: HD Street Performance on October 12, 2018, 08:26:34 AM
Perfect would be the 117 kit but with 92cc CC and 0.030 head gasket.
And how would you know if the deck height is an unknown?
Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: Major Tom on October 12, 2018, 08:47:46 AM
G’day y’all,

I am a little confused, so I must be missing something here.  What is a 92 cc CC?

My understanding at the moment is that:
1- CC stands for Cubic Centimeters. Stock displacement in CC is 1802.577 cubic centimeters (110 cubic inches) & 117 cubic inches is 1917.29 cubic centimeters. By my calculations a 117 kit gives you roughly another 115cc of displacement.
2- The intent of the 0.030 cosmetic gasket is to bump compression from the 9.9:1 ratio advertised for the kit to around 10:1 or a tad more which improves performance of the SE 259e cam the kit comes with.

Pardon my ignorance but can someone please explain what I am not getting here.

Cheers Tom





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: FlaHeatWave on October 12, 2018, 10:20:13 AM
G’day y’all,

I am a little confused, so I must be missing something here.  What is a 92 cc CC?

My understanding at the moment is that:
1- CC stands for Cubic Centimeters. Stock displacement in CC is 1802.577 cubic centimeters (110 cubic inches) & 117 cubic inches is 1917.29 cubic centimeters. By my calculations a 117 kit gives you roughly another 115cc of displacement.
2- The intent of the 0.030 cosmetic gasket is to bump compression from the 9.9:1 ratio advertised for the kit to around 10:1 or a tad more which improves performance of the SE 259e cam the kit comes with.

Pardon my ignorance but can someone please explain what I am not getting here.

Cheers Tom





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
They are referring to the CC volume of the Combustion Chambers in the heads...
Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: Major Tom on October 12, 2018, 10:31:44 AM
They are referring to the CC volume of the Combustion Chambers in the heads...

Thanks Ed,

For interest sake how is that calculated?

Cheers Tom
Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: HD Street Performance on October 12, 2018, 10:48:11 AM
G’day y’all,

I am a little confused, so I must be missing something here.  What is a 92 cc CC?

My understanding at the moment is that:
1- CC stands for Cubic Centimeters. Stock displacement in CC is 1802.577 cubic centimeters (110 cubic inches) & 117 cubic inches is 1917.29 cubic centimeters. By my calculations a 117 kit gives you roughly another 115cc of displacement.
2- The intent of the 0.030 cosmetic gasket is to bump compression from the 9.9:1 ratio advertised for the kit to around 10:1 or a tad more which improves performance of the SE 259e cam the kit comes with.

Pardon my ignorance but can someone please explain what I am not getting here.

Cheers Tom





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Got it all fine just missed one important unknown, how far is the piston in the hole, down? That is part of the calculated volume and does greatly affect the CR
Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: FlaHeatWave on October 12, 2018, 10:56:49 AM
Thanks Ed,

For interest sake how is that calculated?

Cheers Tom
It's physically measured with a burette and a measured amount of fluid usually alcohol,,, check out YouTube "how to measure a combustion chamber"
On the phone this morning, otherwise I would post a link if I was on the computer
Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: Major Tom on October 12, 2018, 11:25:47 AM
Thanks muchly for the enlightenment gents.

One of the reasons I love this forum is the endless opportunities to learn.

Cheers Tom
Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: jimcb1 on October 12, 2018, 12:00:21 PM
would a hd dealer know what to do
Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: busarealfast on October 12, 2018, 01:01:18 PM
All I wanted to know was a ball park combustion area size on the stock cvo 110 head.
Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: HD Street Performance on October 12, 2018, 02:54:14 PM
Have seen them from 94 to 97cc. Core shift matters.
Title: Re: 110 to 117 upgrade
Post by: HD Street Performance on September 04, 2021, 11:34:35 AM
The MVA has a drastically lowered floor blown out bowel and nail head valves. Compared to the stock CVO heads smaller volume? I have both here and can measure, both are unaltered. But I already know the answer.