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CVO Social => Other Topics => Topic started by: Fullsac Performance on June 01, 2018, 09:17:27 PM
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Made a few pulls on the BMW 1600B today. Big flat TQ curve, no surprise there after riding it. Never had anything on the dyno before that is perfectly happy being snapped wide open at 900 RPM. If you did that to a Harley it would have an aneurysm. 90 FT pounds at 1100 RPM, wow! 130 HP peak, but it made it at the rev limiter. I wonder how much more it would make it it was allowed to rev past 7950 RPM?
Steve@fullsac.com
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Pretty Impressive for a stock bike!
:2vrolijk_21:
YB
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Very impressive for a stock bike.....it's been a week since I test rode one and I can still remember it very clearly! :2vrolijk_21:
Steve, on the BMW forum, they've already found a way on the dyno tuner to release or remove the speed limiter and I guess they're also taking the rpms higher, also.
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Very impressive for a stock bike.....it's been a week since I test rode one and I can still remember it very clearly! :2vrolijk_21:
Steve, on the BMW forum, they've already found a way on the dyno tuner to release or remove the speed limiter and I guess they're also taking the rpms higher, also.
To remove or adjust the speed and or rev limiter you have to have access into the ECM. There is a company Brentuning who is able to reprogram the BMW 1600 and many others. For me, the 130 speed limiter is not an issue. If I had a Grand America the 101 limiter would be an issue. BMW has no issues selling fast bikes. The GT and GTL have no speed limiters that I know of? Obviously BMW has concerns over something with the B model and hi speed. Some claim the running boards necessitated the speed limiter as they catch air and move the bike around? For me the running boards position made them useless so I pulled them off and have a new footrest I'm playing with. Did I fix it?
Steve@fullsac.com
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I'd like to sit on that to see what it feels like. Looking at it, looks like it would be close to the same position as the floorboards.
We should be headed down your way in late Oct. We're looking at possibly spending the winter someplace in southern Ariz. this coming winter.
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I'd like to sit on that to see what it feels like. Looking at it, looks like it would be close to the same position as the floorboards.
We should be headed down your way in late Oct. We're looking at possibly spending the winter someplace in southern Ariz. this coming winter.
JC, when are you getting your BMW?
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Here's a short clip from the dyno room with the 1600B clutchless shifting up and down to the 130 MPH speed limiter. CVO mufflers don't sound to bad on the big six cylinder!
Steve@fullsac.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08WxqSEWBxc
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As we watch that speedometer and tach. we just kind of instinctively know..........that's something that no CVO is ever going to do. :nixweiss:
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Here's a short clip from the dyno room with the 1600B clutchless shifting up and down to the 130 MPH speed limiter. CVO mufflers don't sound to bad on the big six cylinder!
Steve@fullsac.com
That video gave me goose bumps, Steve. Yes, the CVO mufflers give it a completely different sound...for the better, IMO.
I'm agreeing with JC on this one....that pull from 40 or so to 130 sure went quick. I'm going to have to ride one at some point...dang it... :)
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Impressive performance and numbers. Blink and your doing 100 mph. CVO mufflers sound good.
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Watch at the top end as Steve backs down to 120 and then runs it back up.....look at how quick it goes from 120 mph to 130 mph. Much faster than my CVO goes from 105 mph to 115 mph! :o
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Here's a short clip from the dyno room with the 1600B clutchless shifting up and down to the 130 MPH speed limiter. CVO mufflers don't sound to bad on the big six cylinder!
Steve@fullsac.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08WxqSEWBxc
WOW, now that turns me on!!
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That video gave me goose bumps, Steve. Yes, the CVO mufflers give it a completely different sound...for the better, IMO.
I'm agreeing with JC on this one....that pull from 40 or so to 130 sure went quick. I'm going to have to ride one at some point...dang it... :)
That run up was half throttle shifting at 6K. Red line is 8500. Here's a peek at the first set of prototypes mufflers. About 4" longer than CVO's I tested initially. The 1.75 baffle was too small, lost 3 HP. The 2.0 is working good!
Steve@fullsac.com
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That is pretty impressive. I rode the GTL in Sturgis demo a couple years ago. I could not run the same route at the same pace on my road glide. Really like the power and suspension.
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looks good Steve
when you get the floor boards and shifter position fixed and a nice exhaust I am in (maybe could live with shifter position )
hopefully the after market comes with a removable tour pack
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I can't believe anyone is even considering this......won't you miss being Harley's guinea pig?
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Making progress on the exhaust. Joker Machine recently relocated to Havasu. They have quite a selection of billet running boards and pegs ect. I will be dropping by there shop this week to discuss a few ideas.
https://jokermachine.com/collections/footpegs
Steve@fullsac.com
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Steve; looking forward to new accessories. Could not be happier to see you with a B.
After 28 years on Harleys including a CVO Electraglide and a 14 Ultra Limited I made the big switch, not knocking Harleys but made the mistake of test riding a 18 K1600B or Bagger and fell in Love, purchased mine last October. The bike amazes me every time I ride. Not just the performance, the handling and comfort. There is simply no comparison.
Please design some nice upgrades including a exhaust system. One that's not 2 grand :).
Thanks again
Sent from my SM-J327T using Tapatalk
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Steve; looking forward to new accessories. Could not be happier to see you with a B.
After 28 years on Harleys including a CVO Electraglide and a 14 Ultra Limited I made the big switch, not knocking Harleys but made the mistake of test riding a 18 K1600B or Bagger and fell in Love, purchased mine last October. The bike amazes me every time I ride. Not just the performance, the handling and comfort. There is simply no comparison.
Please design some nice upgrades including a exhaust system. One that's not 2 grand :).
Thanks again
Sent from my SM-J327T using Tapatalk
Working on some reasonably priced slips ons!
I took the 2017 RGS out for a ride today after riding only the 1600B for the last few weeks. I couldn't believe the amount of effort it took to ride it. Every crack in the road became noticeable. The BMW is a Supermodel. You get used to riding that it's going to be hard to climb on the old Hog with out a paper bag.
Steve@fullsac.com
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Working on some reasonably priced slips ons!
I took the 2017 RGS out for a ride today after riding only the 1600B for the last few weeks. I couldn't believe the amount of effort it took to ride it. Every crack in the road became noticeable. The BMW is a Supermodel. You get used to riding that it's going to be hard to climb on the old Hog with out a paper bag.
Steve@fullsac.com
Looking forward to your products.
In my opinion Harley is in a tough spot. Customers demand a 45 degree V-Twin, the traditional look and features that frankly don't deliver anything other than style. As long as Harley follows those guidelines, they will never compete with bikes like the BMW.
The K1600 line was developed as a whole package, each major component complementing the other. BMW closed down their F1 racing center, the facility was given to Motorrad, the motorcycle division. That's where the K1600 6cyl was developed. Again, in my opinion, the best motorcycle engine ever developed for a touring bike. It's simply not possible to develop a competitive V-Twin that passes EPA and last 100,000 miles in the hands of the average consumer.
Sorry for the long post, congratulations on your B.
Sent from my SM-J327T using Tapatalk
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Working on some reasonably priced slips ons!
I took the 2017 RGS out for a ride today after riding only the 1600B for the last few weeks. I couldn't believe the amount of effort it took to ride it. Every crack in the road became noticeable. The BMW is a Supermodel. You get used to riding that it's going to be hard to climb on the old Hog with out a paper bag.
Steve@fullsac.com
As you know Steve the biggest complaint on the BMW forum as well as what the local BMW dealer is telling me is lack of accesories and mods for the Bagger. I think what you have going will be a homerun! Do you know if the slip-ons you are working on will work with the Remus header?
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Working on some reasonably priced slips ons!
I took the 2017 RGS out for a ride today after riding only the 1600B for the last few weeks. I couldn't believe the amount of effort it took to ride it. Every crack in the road became noticeable. The BMW is a Supermodel. You get used to riding that it's going to be hard to climb on the old Hog with out a paper bag.
Steve@fullsac.com
So the BMW rides better, accelerates better, goes faster, handles better, has more modern systems, and if you believe what is written competent systems integration. So the BMW must cost thousands more than the Harley..... :oops:
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So the BMW rides better, accelerates better, goes faster, handles better, has more modern systems, and if you believe what is written competent systems integration. So the BMW must cost thousands more than the Harley..... :oops:
That did make me chuckle.
Although riding my new K1600GT Sport this morning there are a few things I'll miss from the CVO Streetglide;
Harley's infotainment screen is way bigger than the BMW nav - although it has to be said; I had one replacement head unit on my first Streetglide in 12 months and had to be replaced on my 2nd' Streetglide in an 18 month period.
The 2 thumb joysticks on the HD are easier and more intuitive to use than the BMW controls
The speakers on the BM are pretty feeble - not in the same league as the system on the CVO Streetglide
Backlit switchgear - BMW doesn't have it
I'd grown to like the HD top opening panniers/bags - found them easier to live with on a day to day basis, easier for carrying a laptop bag, usable whilst on the bike (e.g. if the sun disappeared I could just pull over and drop my sunglasses in the bag). Having said that the GT panniers will easily hold my crash helmet which is useful when nipping into town and don't lose space to speakers / amp / wires.
And that's about it, just minor stuff - in every other respect the BM wins hands down and by a significant margin. Resale prices on used CVOs in the UK are not great, but thankfully I only had to find a couple of grand to move on from my 3 year old FLHXSE to a brand new fully loaded K16GT Sport.
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That did make me chuckle.
And that's about it, just minor stuff - in every other respect the BM wins hands down and by a significant margin. Resale prices on used CVOs in the UK are not great, but thankfully I only had to find a couple of grand to move on from my 3 year old FLHXSE to a brand new fully loaded K16GT Sport.
Resale prices on used CVOs in the USA are not great! Jusayinzall :nixweiss:
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As you know Steve the biggest complaint on the BMW forum as well as what the local BMW dealer is telling me is lack of accesories and mods for the Bagger. I think what you have going will be a homerun! Do you know if the slip-ons you are working on will work with the Remus header?
Remus sells there quad exit mufflers as slip ons only. Pretty sure those are the same mufflers you get when you go with the full non cat system. From that I have to assume their non cat headpipes are a direct replacement that will accept stock mufflers too.I have no plans of removing or even testing a non cat headpipe on mine as I have no means of tuning the ECM. The first back to back dyno test I did was to simply remove the stock mufflers. To my surprise it made zero difference in power and AFR. Of course sound levels went way up. Good news is the bike has so much power stock making more is not really needed for Touring duty. So slip ons only will provide better sound and looks for those who aren't attracted to the stock monster mufflers. Kinda like a Harley but power increase will be very close to zero. I do have a luggage rack already mocked up that will accept a passenger back rest. I am playing with footpegs and relocated running boards on mine but unsure if any of that will see production. I seem to be the only one really unhappy with the floor board arrangement?
Steve@fullsac.com
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Been riding Harleys for 50 years now, but I can see a test ride on the 1600B in my future. Steve, the development work that you are doing is fantastic. Please keep this thread alive.
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Remus sells there quad exit mufflers as slip ons only. Pretty sure those are the same mufflers you get when you go with the full non cat system. From that I have to assume their non cat headpipes are a direct replacement that will accept stock mufflers too.I have no plans of removing or even testing a non cat headpipe on mine as I have no means of tuning the ECM. The first back to back dyno test I did was to simply remove the stock mufflers. To my surprise it made zero difference in power and AFR. Of course sound levels went way up. Good news is the bike has so much power stock making more is not really needed for Touring duty. So slip ons only will provide better sound and looks for those who aren't attracted to the stock monster mufflers. Kinda like a Harley but power increase will be very close to zero. I do have a luggage rack already mocked up that will accept a passenger back rest. I am playing with footpegs and relocated running boards on mine but unsure if any of that will see production. I seem to be the only one really unhappy with the floor board arrangement?
I would be all over relocating the boards for sure and I have to believe many others feel the same way!
Steve@fullsac.com
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Remus sells there quad exit mufflers as slip ons only. Pretty sure those are the same mufflers you get when you go with the full non cat system. From that I have to assume their non cat headpipes are a direct replacement that will accept stock mufflers too.I have no plans of removing or even testing a non cat headpipe on mine as I have no means of tuning the ECM. The first back to back dyno test I did was to simply remove the stock mufflers. To my surprise it made zero difference in power and AFR. Of course sound levels went way up. Good news is the bike has so much power stock making more is not really needed for Touring duty. So slip ons only will provide better sound and looks for those who aren't attracted to the stock monster mufflers. Kinda like a Harley but power increase will be very close to zero. I do have a luggage rack already mocked up that will accept a passenger back rest. I am playing with footpegs and relocated running boards on mine but unsure if any of that will see production. I seem to be the only one really unhappy with the floor board arrangement?
Steve@fullsac.com
Pretty sure anytime I looked at alternative headers for BMW from Remus (or Akrapovic or Laser or other) they were compatible with the stock mufflers. Makes sense when there are limited options to change the exhaust routing due to bags etc.
There was a distributor for Remus in the USA that would also provide a booster plug if you wanted decat headers - the booster plug is a simple "resistor fiddle" on the air temp sensor on the airbox to chuck in a little more fuel. I got one for a 2010 R1200GSA that had an occasional stumble and stall at low speed where the bike was running so lean at factory settings - the booster plug fixed that problem and the bike was a little smoother with no noticeable impact on economy.
Booster Plug: https://www.boosterplug.com/shop/bmw-28s1.html
Accelerator Module: http://www.sol2.be/Performance/ENG/Order/page_BMW.html
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Here's our first set of BMW 1600B slip ons that will make it out of the dyno room and on to the street for testing.
Steve@fullsac.com
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Any chance these new slip ons will be California certified? Considering your not touching the converter, it seems they should?
Harley certified their street cannon slip ons and they are much louder than stock.
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Here's our first set of BMW 1600B slip ons that will make it out of the dyno room and on to the street for testing.
Steve@fullsac.com
Let me be the first (on the site) to say dang, those look good, Steve. Made that bike look very differn't from the back side and a bit lighter to boot. Good luck with the testing.
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Glad to see progress on the mufflers. Stopped in to see the K1600B two days ago...this is my third visit looking at one. Unless something changes my opinion, there's one coming to my garage.
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Looks different Steve. What does she sound like now?
BigLew
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Here's our first set of BMW 1600B slip ons that will make it out of the dyno room and on to the street for testing.
Steve@fullsac.com
They look great!!! :2vrolijk_21:... can't wait to see the video of the wheelies and how they sound busting @$$ down the road. ;D ;D
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
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Thanks for all the positive input Guys!
Hard for me to describe the sound. I took it around the block yesterday when it was 114 deg out and I decided reschedule for the AM. Looking forward to some hi way miles at 80 to really evaluate to tone. I can not tolerate anything that drones, hopefully I nailed it right out of the gate. First impressions, not much louder than stock at idle and cruise. But as the RPMs climb it progressively turns into hi pitched F1 type of a scream. At no point is it as loud as the Harley's we are all used to playing with. I will go back into the dyno room with it soon and shoot more video.
The endcaps are one offs that I made from scratch. Real clean and smooth, I hope the Germans will approve.
Steve@fullsac.com
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I was just on the BMW K1600 forum and there's already chatter about your mufflers. Good luck.
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Glad to see progress on the mufflers. Stopped in to see the K1600B two days ago...this is my third visit looking at one. Unless something changes my opinion, there's one coming to my garage.
Mark, coming from a long time HD rider, the B or Bagger brought a new level of enjoyment into riding.
Two suggestions, if you buy a B or GA, make sure it has the factory center stand option. Second suggestion; if you want the cast wheel option, make sure you buy it that way factory. These options are reasonable as a factory option, expensive to add later.
I know cuz I added the center stand to my B, I was happy with the stock rims.
Good luck
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Mark, coming from a long time HD rider, the B or Bagger brought a new level of enjoyment into riding.
Two suggestions, if you buy a B or GA, make sure it has the factory center stand option. Second suggestion; if you want the cast wheel option, make sure you buy it that way factory. These options are reasonable as a factory option, expensive to add later.
I know cuz I added the center stand to my B, I was happy with the stock rims.
Good luck
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I think the standard wheels are cast - the upgrades are forged. The forged wheels are supposed to be lighter and stronger (as well as prettier) but I can't recall by how much.
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Saw this at a gas station the other day I have to say its beautiful. May need to test ride one.
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Saw this at a gas station the other day I have to say its beautiful. May need to test ride one.
Be careful doing that. I was not even thinking about ever getting a BMW until JC talked me into testing one, put my order in a week later..
Performance on that bike in another dimension from our bikes, huge fun!
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Be careful doing that. I was not even thinking about ever getting a BMW until JC talked me into testing one, put my order in a week later..
Performance on that bike in another dimension from our bikes, huge fun!
BTW, I will be "blacking out" those rear lights first thing..
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I think the standard wheels are cast - the upgrades are forged. The forged wheels are supposed to be lighter and stronger (as well as prettier) but I can't recall by how much.
Your right, I apologize.
In my opinion, the primary reason to buy the upgraded wheels is because you prefer the style. Any other benefit is a bonus.
Some prefer the standard rims. Good to have choices. The standard rims certainly work well and also look good. One thing I really like about them is the black powdercoating. Also like the position of the valve stem.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180624/d1693290a96bd8c3d854bfa69d75eb9d.jpg)
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Now I want one!
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Now I want one!
Hell... I built one... Thank goodness I don't ride enough to want/justify really getting one. :D :D
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
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Hell... I built one... Thank goodness I don't ride enough to want/justify really getting one. :D :D
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
Damn Gary! That's a CVO like accessory list. Did you mouse have a seizure and just keep clicking?
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BTW, I will be "blacking out" those rear lights first thing..
What are you going to use to black them out? BTW, the B looks great with a blacked out exhaust and a dark tinted windshield.
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Damn Gary! That's a CVO like accessory list. Did you mouse have a seizure and just keep clicking?
LOL!!! I had to "CVO" it. :D :D
As someone posted earlier in most cases it's cheaper (and most times warranty <of them> will be longer if accessories are added at time of purchase), so may as well throw the OEM P&A on them at time of purchase. :nixweiss:
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
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I was just on the BMW K1600 forum and there's already chatter about your mufflers. Good luck.
Thanks Mark
The crowd was a little divided? One guy didn't like the "chrome" end caps? Others suggested six exits would be a desirable look. That's not going to happen, Lol.. Hopefully there will be enough Harley converts that appreciate clean functional parts to make this worth while.
Steve@fullsac.com
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LOL!!! I had to "CVO" it. :D :D
As someone posted earlier in most cases it's cheaper (and most times warranty <of them> will be longer if accessories are added at time of purchase), so may as well throw the OEM P&A on them at time of purchase. :nixweiss:
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
Read in this thread or elsewhere that one of the complaints on the BMW was the lack of accessories. You Doodled the hell out of that complaint. :drink:
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What are you going to use to black them out? BTW, the B looks great with a blacked out exhaust and a dark tinted windshield.
not sure yet if I will use a dark tint or paint. Will depend on how hard the brake light covers are to remove. My son just tinted his on his car and they look great and work fine when on.
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Thanks Mark
The crowd was a little divided? One guy didn't like the "chrome" end caps? Others suggested six exits would be a desirable look. That's not going to happen, Lol.. Hopefully there will be enough Harley converts that appreciate clean functional parts to make this worth while.
Steve@fullsac.com
I think your new mufflers look good. Considering the expected price difference, I think you'll do well.
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Thanks Mark
The crowd was a little divided? One guy didn't like the "chrome" end caps? Others suggested six exits would be a desirable look. That's not going to happen, Lol.. Hopefully there will be enough Harley converts that appreciate clean functional parts to make this worth while.
Steve@fullsac.com
Steve, these looks good. Everyone has their likes and dislikes - but having six mufflers because the bike is a six cylinder would look ridiculous, and add unneeded weight to boot. I'm not really a fan of the Remus exhaust because it has four mufflers - the single muffler is a cleaner look, IMO. I like the silver end caps - it gives just the right amount of accent. Perhaps if these go into production, you could offer silver or black end caps.
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Thanks Mark
The crowd was a little divided? One guy didn't like the "chrome" end caps? Others suggested six exits would be a desirable look. That's not going to happen, Lol.. Hopefully there will be enough Harley converts that appreciate clean functional parts to make this worth while.
Steve@fullsac.com
I think that's going to happen sooner rather than later Steve. It looks like they've already got more than a few Harley riders that have crossed over....even CVO owners. I can only see that increasing in the next couple of years as more and more cross over and share their personal experiences with their Harley riding friends.
That exhaust looks a lot nice in this photo than the stock OEM exhaust does on the bike. Of course, BMW purists will be resistant at first but eventually, they'll cross over also.
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I think that's going to happen sooner rather than later Steve. It looks like they've already got more than a few Harley riders that have crossed over....even CVO owners. I can only see that increasing in the next couple of years as more and more cross over and share their personal experiences with their Harley riding friends.
That exhaust looks a lot nice in this photo than the stock OEM exhaust does on the bike. Of course, BMW purists will be resistant at first but eventually, they'll cross over also.
Also as the Harley price keeps going up, and they keep taking content from the bike. My 2009 CVO RG was 31,995. Had a back rest and everything else this 2018 does. Heck my 2012 was only 1K more than the 09, and it lost a back rest. This 18 was 41K. Has less than either of those bikes. And I worry about it Sumping. Also then do not have lowers available for it, because harley thinks they do not fit, but they do. So if you want to add them you have to buy it piece by piece for 1800 dollars, vice the 1000 dollars for the first two CVO road glides.
Harley really needs to get a fix fast for the M8, and quit skimping on quality and features.
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Nice job Steve. Really cleaned up the bike. Even if no power increase they just look so much better. If you do get a bump in power it is just icing.
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Nice job Steve. Really cleaned up the bike. Even if no power increase they just look so much better. If you do get a bump in power it is just icing.
I think they look good
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Much nicer than those huge, trash can looking stock OEM mufflers.