Topic: Valve Guide (Read 11092 times)

REDMAN · « **on:** September 16, 2015, 09:08:17 AM »

A few weekends ago I had blue smoke coming out of my exhaust. I shut the bike down and had it towed to a local bike shop by our lake house. It ended up being a broken valve guide. Has anyone else experienced this? My mechanic said in 20+ years he had never seen this part fail before.

grc · « **Reply #1 on:** September 16, 2015, 09:25:52 AM »

I assume in his 20 years he didn't work on many CVO110's. That was an all-to-common problem on the early 110's, and valve guide and stem issues persist to this day to some extent. But I'll wait for the pro's to chime in and give you the details.

Jerry

HD Street Performance · « **Reply #2 on:** September 16, 2015, 10:37:20 AM »

Still this problem persists.
I take even new 110 heads and change the guides to AV&V, manganese bronze. They allow a tighter valve to guide fit and by virtue of the material offers lubricity. These combined with Viton valve seals keeps the oil out so coking does't occur and on the intake side oil stays out of the port thus out of the combustion burn. This combination has proven to be very reliable and a reasonable life cycle for the heads is realized. I have many sets of heads with beyond 50k trouble free miles.

HILLSIDECYCLE.COM · « **Reply #3 on:** September 16, 2015, 03:26:49 PM »

We've witnessed that in 88" TC's before as well.
Dollars to donuts that it was fractured upon install and just now stb.
Scott

johnsachs · « **Reply #4 on:** September 16, 2015, 06:04:38 PM »

A consistent problem, and sometimes the owner doesn't realize there's a problem.

John

Jswerve · « **Reply #5 on:** September 16, 2015, 07:05:37 PM »

Quote from: johnsachs on September 16, 2015, 06:04:38 PM

A consistent problem, and sometimes the owner doesn't realize there's a problem.
John

Ask me how I know...

r0de_runr · « **Reply #6 on:** September 16, 2015, 08:49:45 PM »

Steve at GMR has my bike right now doing the heads, found faulty guides. Perhaps he'll post pics.

mark · « **Reply #7 on:** September 16, 2015, 09:25:59 PM »

I can't ever see getting another 110. Two guys I ride with have traded their CVOs and bought 103 tourers. I'll be next...my 110 started using a qt. of oil every 1k miles before it had 15k miles on the ticker. Was in two Harley shops last week kicking the tires on a '16 RGS and noticed both had unsold '15 CVOs...didn't even give them consideration.

prodrag1320 · « **Reply #8 on:** September 17, 2015, 06:39:53 AM »

seen it here many times too.guide replacement has been the # 1 thing on 110 heads here for quite a while

HILLSIDECYCLE.COM · « **Reply #9 on:** September 17, 2015, 07:06:45 AM »

With a set of pipes, untuned, the rear 110" head goes thru living hell with the heat from the school bus cam.
AV&V bronze-maganese shouldered guides, with the seals, are the cure.
Scott

Beak Boater · « **Reply #10 on:** September 17, 2015, 09:08:26 AM »

Their are those who think that Harley's Twin Cool motors are to address that point exactly. Not so much about rider comfort, not about EPA and the emissions, about trying to cool the exhaust area down to keep the valve guides from moving around in the head. Have heard it from more than one knowledgeable person. Could be BS....don't know. Something to think about with all the valve problems in the 110's.

JKM · « **Reply #11 on:** September 17, 2015, 06:00:12 PM »

concerns around the valve guides and the OEM springs with too much pressure is why I had my heads done with AV&V components and ported

HILLSIDECYCLE.COM · « **Reply #12 on:** September 18, 2015, 05:56:25 AM »

AV&V products are what we use the most of here.
HUGE order came in yesterday from Goodson.
Scott

GMR-PERFORMANCE · « **Reply #13 on:** September 18, 2015, 09:06:38 AM »

Quote from: r0de_runr on September 16, 2015, 08:49:45 PM

Steve at GMR has my bike right now doing the heads, found faulty guides. Perhaps he'll post pics.

Not much to show.. EX guide on one had had moved a bit and once we heated the head to remove it it fell apart.. So it was also cracked. Cracking in the head is common your needed a small amount of welding. New AV&V guides and CNC valve job .. Better than new

We do use av&v often but there are other guides that work just as well KB has the same style with o-ring for sealing. So if your local shop does the work they may use that as well.. Both work without issue.

HILLSIDECYCLE.COM · « **Reply #14 on:** September 18, 2015, 11:06:05 AM »

Deleted.........

Jswerve · « **Reply #15 on:** September 18, 2015, 05:34:51 PM »

Quote from: HILLSIDECYCLE.COM on September 18, 2015, 11:06:05 AM

Deleted.........

Shhhh shhhh shhhh.....

MCE · « **Reply #16 on:** September 20, 2015, 05:07:23 PM »

I've seen them crack, never saw one broken all the way around though...

snowrider13 · « **Reply #17 on:** September 20, 2015, 07:46:01 PM »

If one was to suspect there was this issue, could you remove exaust, turn engine over by hand, and see broken guide stuck to valve? Think I have a lazy lifter, but this gets me nervous. No smoke, runs good, just a new noise from rear cyl. and what seems to be extra long time on cold start for lifters to quiet. Also clatter on a hot re-start.

HILLSIDECYCLE.COM · « **Reply #18 on:** September 21, 2015, 06:22:33 AM »

Sounds like it's time to install a set of S&S lifters.
Scott

GMR-PERFORMANCE · « **Reply #19 on:** September 21, 2015, 08:42:10 AM »

Quote from: snowrider13 on September 20, 2015, 07:46:01 PM

If one was to suspect there was this issue, could you remove exaust, turn engine over by hand, and see broken guide stuck to valve? Think I have a lazy lifter, but this gets me nervous. No smoke, runs good, just a new noise from rear cyl. and what seems to be extra long time on cold start for lifters to quiet. Also clatter on a hot re-start.

Yes if you remove the ex system you can see the valve and guide. Now that is only a visual and you may not see anything that is broken. However the valve train lifter noise is more than one thing. The stock cam does have a rather aggressive lobe profile, springs have higher than needed pressure, stock lifters are not the best.

Rear cylinder is most prone to this. And the guide can be damaged but you may not be able to see that.

How many miles on the bike, what year is it, has it been correctly tuned with any mods that you have added. Could be time for lifter's or maybe it time for a winter project.

Send the heads off to a shop that can properly replace the guides, set spring pressure..

snowrider13 · « **Reply #20 on:** September 21, 2015, 10:02:13 AM »

GMR I will be calling soon to place order on lifters. Will fill you in then.

HILLSIDECYCLE.COM · « **Reply #21 on:** September 21, 2015, 01:19:32 PM »

Quote from: Jswerve on September 18, 2015, 05:34:51 PM

Shhhh shhhh shhhh.....

Problem?
Or just an attempt to harrass?

Jswerve · « **Reply #22 on:** September 21, 2015, 02:26:21 PM »

Quote from: snowrider13 on September 21, 2015, 10:02:13 AM

GMR I will be calling soon to place order on lifters. Will fill you in then.

Wise choice.

SneakyPete · « **Reply #23 on:** September 21, 2015, 07:09:40 PM »

Quote from: Jswerve on September 21, 2015, 02:26:21 PM

Wise choice.

X2

HD Street Performance · « **Reply #24 on:** September 21, 2015, 10:01:26 PM »

This is case and point
These heads were low miles too.

TorqueInc · « **Reply #25 on:** September 22, 2015, 05:01:36 PM »

Quote from: HD Street Performance on September 21, 2015, 10:01:26 PM

This is case and point
These heads were low miles too.

Was the guide loose in the guide bore ?

timo482 · « **Reply #26 on:** September 22, 2015, 09:22:47 PM »

my 1977 flh did this.... sucked

HILLSIDECYCLE.COM · « **Reply #27 on:** September 24, 2015, 06:30:53 AM »

You won't see a photo of an AV&V guide fractured like that.

prodrag1320 · « **Reply #28 on:** September 24, 2015, 08:32:27 AM »

Quote from: TorqueInc on September 22, 2015, 05:01:36 PM

Was the guide loose in the guide bore ?

ran into that all too many times too.alot of the 110 guides seem like you can push the guides out with your thumb

adkg12 · « **Reply #29 on:** September 24, 2015, 08:51:07 AM »

OP.. Did you get any kind of warning? New noise.. etc?
Glen

grc · « **Reply #30 on:** September 24, 2015, 02:18:06 PM »

Quote from: prodrag1320 on September 24, 2015, 08:32:27 AM

ran into that all too many times too.alot of the 110 guides seem like you can push the guides out with your thumb

Some more of those fine H-D tolerances. I remember their reaction to the guides dropping on the early 110's; they didn't fix the problem, they just added a retainer ring around the top of the guide so it couldn't drop through the bore. Typical BS "fix", like so many others they've pawned off over the past dozen years. Not intended to truly fix the problem, but just intended to get the bike out of warranty.

Jerry

HD Street Performance · « **Reply #31 on:** September 24, 2015, 02:33:04 PM »

Quote from: TorqueInc on September 22, 2015, 05:01:36 PM

Was the guide loose in the guide bore ?

No cokes up stem, valves seized and pulled the guide apart.

HILLSIDECYCLE.COM · « **Reply #32 on:** September 24, 2015, 03:16:01 PM »

If that is the case, then that'll give the rider a symptom, as the valve won't be coming back on the seat correctly.
A miss or the engine will have an odd cadence or shudder, not like parade mode where they drop a cylinder, but nonetheless a difference.
If the radio/cd player is wfo, your looking at a gps, same time your texting with your left foot.....maybe a fax is coming in, in the tour pack......it may never be noticed........but it'll be there.
Scott

HD Street Performance · « **Reply #33 on:** September 24, 2015, 03:24:31 PM »

Many have missed and clattered. Some shut them down others ride on. Small or big bill to fix.

HILLSIDECYCLE.COM · « **Reply #34 on:** September 24, 2015, 03:36:17 PM »

We've seen it here all too many times, during the course of our very busy business days.......

TorqueInc · « **Reply #35 on:** September 25, 2015, 05:58:38 AM »

Quote from: HD Street Performance on September 24, 2015, 02:33:04 PM

No cokes up stem, valves seized and pulled the guide apart.

I know why it happened

Have three sets in the last month....2 fronts and a rear

both fronts were almost exactly as you posted the rear valve was walking around on the seat and the guide was loose in the receiving hole

Despite of the heat id almost bet if they changed the seat material ....you would see way less of this

Ridgerunr · « **Reply #36 on:** September 25, 2015, 07:26:33 AM »

"Have three sets in the last month....2 fronts and a rear"

Were these late model (2014-15) heads? or the early ones?

HD Street Performance · « **Reply #37 on:** September 25, 2015, 09:44:01 AM »

More of the BS fix was improved valve seals which does help for a while. As soon as the seals wear due to large guide to valve stem clearance the problem is back. Exaggerated by high exhaust temperatures.

HILLSIDECYCLE.COM · « **Reply #38 on:** September 25, 2015, 04:51:56 PM »

HD being fully aware of the heat, opened up the stem/guide dimension in an attempt to circumvent.
The school bus cam doesn't help matters.
Scott

TorqueInc · « **Reply #39 on:** September 25, 2015, 11:14:21 PM »

Quote from: Ridgerunr on September 25, 2015, 07:26:33 AM

"Have three sets in the last month....2 fronts and a rear"

Were these late model (2014-15) heads? or the early ones?

Yes 14-15

The head off the 15 ultra had 4100 miles on it and looked as if it had many more than that

Author Topic: Valve Guide (Read 11092 times)

mark

MCE