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longlast

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Transmission oil
« on: January 11, 2018, 01:29:28 AM »

I'm considering using this Mil - L - 2105 D oil for the transmission.  Any comments with using it?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/75W-90-SYNTHETIC-GEAR-OIL-GL5-HIGH-QUALITY-MIL-L-2105-D-Manual-Transmision/192287021956?hash=item2cc5331b84:g:eK0AAOSwa3ZZniTu


Approved Lubricants - General:
Gear lubricants acceptable under
military specification (MILSPEC)
MIL-L-2105D (Lubricating Oils,
Gear, Multipurpose) are approved
for use in Spicer Drive Axles.
The MIL-L-2105D specification
defines performance and viscosity
requirements for multigrade oils.
It supersedes both MIL-L-2105B,
MIL-L-2105C and cold weather
specification MIL-L-10324A. This
specification applies to both
petroleum-based and synthetic-
based gear lubricants if they
appear on the most current
"Qualified Products List "
(QPL-2105) for MIL-L-2105D.
NOTE: The use of separate oil
additives and/or friction modifiers
are not approved for use in Spicer
Drive Axles.
Approved Lubricants - Synthetic
based: Synthetic-based gear
lubricants exhibit superior thermal
and oxidation stability, and
generally degrade at a lower rate
when compared to petroleum-
based lubricants. The performance
characteristics of these lubricants
include extended change intervals,
improved fuel economy, better
extreme temperature operation,
reduced wear and cleaner
component appearance. The family
of Spicer gear lubricants represents
a premium quality synthetic lube
which fully meets or exceeds the
requirements of MIL-L-2105D. These
products, available in both 75W-90
 and 80W-140, have demonstrated
superior performance in com-
parison to others qualified under
the MILSPEC, as demonstrated by
extensive laboratory and field
testing.
Lube Sampling and Condition
Monitoring: For information,
contact your local Dana represen-
tation at phone numbers listed on
the back cover of this manual.
Makeup Lube: Maximum amount of
non-synthetic makeup lube is 100%.
Viscosity/Ambient Temperature
Recommendations: The following
chart lists the various SAE Grades
covered by MIL-2105D and the
associated ambient temperature
range for each. Those SAE Grades
shown with an asterisk (*) are
available in the Spicer family of
synthetic gear lubricants.
The lowest ambient temperatures
covered by this chart are -40o
F and
-40o
C. Lubrication recommenda-
tions for those applications which
consistently operate below this
temperature range, must be
obtained through the Dana.
Grade Ambient Temperature Range
75W -40o
F to -15o
F (-40o
C to -26o
C)
75W-80 -40o
F to 80o
F (-40 o
C to 21o
C)
75 W-90* -40o
F to 100o
F (-40o
C to 38o
C)
75 W-140 -40o
F and above (-40o
C and above)
80W-90 -15o
F to 100o
F (-26o
C to 38o
C)
80W-140* -15o
F and above (-26o
C and above)
85 W-140 10o
F and above (-12o
C and above)

Lube Change Intervals
Lubrication Change Internals -
General: The initial lubricant
change is one of the most
important factors in axle com-
ponent life and durability, because
of the elimination of break-in
contaminants. These contaminants
are primarily iron from the initial
break-in wear of rotating
components, and silicon from the
sand used in manufacture of cast
components.
For either a new or rebuilt drive
axle, the lubricant should be
changed within the first 3000 to
5000 miles of operation. Subse-
quent lubricant changes should be
based on a combination of the
intervals stated in the following
chart and user judgment based
heavily on the application and
operating environment.
Changing Lube
Lubrication Change Intervals - NOTE: At both the initial and all
Severe Service: Severe service subsequent lubricant changes,
applications are those which Spicer recommends that the
require the axle to be consistently magnetic filler and drain plugs,
operated near it•s maximum GCW and the breather be cleaned.
or GVW ratings, dusty or wet
environments, or consistent opera-
tion on grades greater than 8%.
For these applications, the ON/OFF
HIGHWAY portion of the chart
should be used.
Guidelines - Lube Change Intervals for Drive Axles I
Maximum On/Off Highway Maximum
Lubricant On Highway Change Severe Service Change
Type Miles Interval Miles Interval , r 1 1 I
Mineral 100,000 Yearly 40,000 Yearly Based
Spicer Approved 250,000 3 Year 100 ,000 Yearly

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J.D.

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Re: Transmission oil
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2018, 08:20:03 AM »

I've never used this, but don't see anything that would suggest that it wouldn't work fine in the transmission.
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longlast

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Re: Transmission oil
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2018, 11:25:29 AM »

I've never used this, but don't see anything that would suggest that it wouldn't work fine in the transmission.

That's what I was thinking, I'm ok on mechanics but I don't have the experience on Harley's . Just learning by hands on and the sharing of knowledge from the top guys on this site  :2vrolijk_21:

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Para Bellum

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Re: Transmission oil
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2018, 02:11:57 AM »

I believe it's better to use the 75w-140 in a Harley, especially in an air-cooled engine, b/c of the high heat environment.  The 7w-140 is rated for -40 (C or F) and above.  Not many places colder than -40, and not many riders going out in that.   ;)
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J.D.

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Re: Transmission oil
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2018, 10:27:21 AM »

Lot of guys prefer the 75w-140 but 75w-90 gear oil works fine and is very close in viscosity to SYN3 20w-50 motor oil specified.
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grc

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Re: Transmission oil
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2018, 01:30:18 PM »

Lot of guys prefer the 75w-140 but 75w-90 gear oil works fine and is very close in viscosity to SYN3 20w-50 motor oil specified.

 :2vrolijk_21:

With the old five speeds there wasn't much downside running a 75w140 other than being a bit stiff initially if you did decide to ride in very cold weather.  Been there, done that back when I was younger and actually rode in cold weather.  Yes, the 75w might make you think it shouldn't be any worse than the stock 75w90, but that's not exactly how it works. 

With the Cruise Drive six speeds, however, there are some small passages and clearances that have been blamed for part lubrication failures when using heavier lubes.  Being fully aware of how Harley likes to blame other things for their failures, I'm not going to state as fact that running a higher viscosity lube in the trans could cause premature wear and failures, but it is a possibility I thought I should mention.

Jerry
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J.D.

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Re: Transmission oil
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2018, 03:14:14 PM »

Quite true.  Here are actual viscosity values for typical oils:
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J.D.

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Re: Transmission oil
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2018, 03:15:03 PM »

And the visual chart:
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longlast

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Re: Transmission oil
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2018, 08:33:31 AM »

Right I'm a little confused now. So at the end of the day what would be a safe grad of gear lube to use?

I didn't know of the small passages as mentioned that could cause premature failure by using a wrong grad of lube. I assume that's why Harley uses motor oil in the transmission to ensure efficient lubrication.

I want to get away from the added expense of putting in motor oil every 5k and use a gear lube that I don't have to worry about it for the next 20k.

If someone could give me a grade weight of gear lube to use that works in the 6 speed I'll go with that.
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J.D.

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Re: Transmission oil
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2018, 09:13:24 AM »

The 75w-90 will work fine.

I personally prefer gear oil over motor oil in the transmission.
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longlast

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Re: Transmission oil
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2018, 09:22:08 AM »

The 75w-90 will work fine.

I personally prefer gear oil over motor oil in the transmission.

I appreciate that.  :2vrolijk_21:
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johnsachs

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Re: Transmission oil
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2018, 06:06:45 PM »

The 75w-90 will work fine.

I personally prefer gear oil over motor oil in the transmission.
Gear oil is what I use here. Bel Ray Gear Saver.
ATF in the primary.
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stevieb1973

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Re: Transmission oil
« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2018, 09:54:20 AM »

im a novice, so what gear lube should I look for at a car parts store? thank you
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J.D.

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Re: Transmission oil
« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2018, 10:29:48 AM »

75w-90 synthetic gear oil works well for most guys.  I've had really goid results with the Royal Purple brand, and it's readily available to me locally, but most brands should work fine.  Personally I like the feel of the 75w-140 a bit better.  75w-140 seems questionable in the 6-speeds, but alot of guys are running the Red Line heavy stuff, which is the viscosity of 75w-140.

Modern 20w-50 synthetic motor oil will get the job done (they're filled with SYN3 from the factory).

I'd take most any fresh, clean gear oil over the ideal stuff (whatever that is) left in too long.
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longlast

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Re: Transmission oil
« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2018, 01:41:03 PM »

75w90 synthetic I've just started using so far it's been fine can't really tell any big noticeable difference.
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Joel

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Re: Transmission oil
« Reply #15 on: July 09, 2018, 05:04:47 PM »

Before I did my last road trip, I changed the trans fluid and installed the 75-140 Lucas gear oil for V-Twin Transmission.
It was noisy within a few miles, Dealer stated they used the Formula + with the 1,000 mile service they did, so I drained the Lucas wrote defective on the bottle sent it back and refilled the trans with the Formula +, it was quiet again.
We put on just under 2300 miles last week and still quiet and smooth shifting, neutral is easy to find.
Everyone has a preference on the oils they like, for me in the trans and primary I will stay with the Formula +.
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J.D.

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Re: Transmission oil
« Reply #16 on: July 09, 2018, 05:09:27 PM »

If it works good then no reason to change.

F+ specs out viscosity wise very close to 20w-50 motor oil.
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longlast

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Re: Transmission oil
« Reply #17 on: July 09, 2018, 06:40:25 PM »

I was ok with the motor oil in the transmission. I've only switched to a gear lube because I didn't want the expense of having to change the oil every 5k. I'm a cheep mug :huepfenlol2:
I'm not sure if the 20w50 motor oil really needs changing at 5k or if it could go 10, 15, or 20k  :nixweiss: not that I'd like to see how it goes without changing it if I'd stay with the motor oil.

I just look at it that it's a transmission so use a tranny lube
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grc

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Re: Transmission oil
« Reply #18 on: July 09, 2018, 06:54:19 PM »

I was ok with the motor oil in the transmission. I've only switched to a gear lube because I didn't want the expense of having to change the oil every 5k. I'm a cheep mug :huepfenlol2:
I'm not sure if the 20w50 motor oil really needs changing at 5k or if it could go 10, 15, or 20k  :nixweiss: not that I'd like to see how it goes without changing it if I'd stay with the motor oil.

I just look at it that it's a transmission so use a tranny lube

 :2vrolijk_21:      The "one product in all three holes" thing was more about marketing and convenience than it was about being the best solution.  Throwing a few extra additives in the motor oil formula to make it meet the minimum requirements for the transmission is NOT the same as running a lubricant designed from the beginning for a gearbox.  If motor oil was really as good in a gearbox as real gear lube, why do they still sell gear lube?

Jerry
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J.D.

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Re: Transmission oil
« Reply #19 on: July 09, 2018, 07:13:17 PM »

Yep, SYN3 works but is really about making maximum profit.
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Joel

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Re: Transmission oil
« Reply #20 on: July 09, 2018, 08:41:06 PM »

Formula + was 10 bucks with tax.
Syn 3 was a couple more.
But price for me was not the deciding factor.
The sound of silence played a big role.
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Para Bellum

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Re: Transmission oil
« Reply #21 on: July 09, 2018, 10:40:45 PM »

im a novice, so what gear lube should I look for at a car parts store? thank you
With the heat you get in SD, I'd use a good synthetic 75w-140.  I used AMSOIL 75w-140 Severe Gear Lube in my Twin Cam bikes.
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stevieb1973

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Re: Transmission oil
« Reply #22 on: July 10, 2018, 11:01:11 PM »

well, its done. after all the help you guys gave me and all my research I decided to go with mobile 1 in engine, RL shock proof in trans., and bel-ray in primary. thank all of you for your interest and info
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Re: Transmission oil
« Reply #23 on: July 11, 2018, 08:32:38 AM »


I'd take most any fresh, clean gear oil over the ideal stuff (whatever that is) left in too long.

what do you consider to be 'too long'?

i just changed my tranny oil couple of days ago.  i've been using the supertech full synthetic 75w-90 from walmart.  last changed at 20,000 miles.  have 40,000 on my bike now.  when i drained the tranny, the oil came out looking as clean as it did when it went in.  no odd clunks, difficulty shifting, or any other negative effects that i noticed.
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J.D.

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Re: Transmission oil
« Reply #24 on: July 11, 2018, 08:55:58 AM »

Too long would be beyond recommended interval, contaminated by water, visibly dark, excessive metallic particulate on drain plug magnet...
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Re: Transmission oil
« Reply #25 on: July 11, 2018, 08:57:34 AM »

what do you consider to be 'too long'?

i just changed my tranny oil couple of days ago.  i've been using the supertech full synthetic 75w-90 from walmart.  last changed at 20,000 miles.  have 40,000 on my bike now.  when i drained the tranny, the oil came out looking as clean as it did when it went in.  no odd clunks, difficulty shifting, or any other negative effects that i noticed.

Transmission and gearbox lubes work under very different conditions than motor oil, and they do not need to be changed anywhere near as often as motor oil.  Motor oil is exposed to combustion byproducts and fuel dilution, neither of which affect the transmission.  In reality, even Harley's latest 20k mile change interval is too conservative.  Look at the maintenance intervals for the typical car or SUV these days and see what they say about transmission, PTU, and differential lube changes.  The one I am looking at right now for an AWD Ford SUV is 150k miles for all three.

Jerry
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skratch

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Re: Transmission oil
« Reply #26 on: July 11, 2018, 12:55:09 PM »

 i agree jerry.  i was wondering what someone else considered 'too long' as there are a lot of folks that subscribe to the 'all 3 every 2500 miles' philosophy.  i tend to err on the side of the mfg recommendation.  like you said, modern car gearboxes are spec'd at 100,000 + before a gearbox oil change is necessary.  i can't believe that our transmissions are that much harder on gear lube than a car gearbox..

now having said that, i do change my primary every 5k with the engine oil.  it's just too dirty to go the full 10k imo.  and at $15 for 4 qts, it's cheap enough to change.
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