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Author Topic: Lost a Lifter  (Read 7693 times)

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efrbc1

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Lost a Lifter
« on: March 27, 2018, 09:23:06 AM »

2005 SEEG.  Stock 103 motor except for Zippers 575 gear drive cams.  Rear cylinder exhaust lifter failed (bearing).  So far I need to replace the rear cam, lifter and oil pump.  Not a lot of visible crap in the cam chest (the broken piece of lifter and 5-6 bearing rollers) but the cam lobe is scored as well as the oil pump.  Have not yet drained the oil or opened the filter.

Oil pump was a Feuling 7000, looking to replace it with another 7000 or possibly a 7010.  Cam is on the way and have a set of the AMS SE lifters.  Ordering the S&S cam bearing set. 

What more am I looking at to get this back together?  This sucks.......

Chris
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hd-dude

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Re: Lost a Lifter
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2018, 11:29:35 AM »

When this happens metal debris is likely throughout the engine as the lifter failed over time. All bearings most likely have been compromised. At a minimum a new Pump, cam plate, and Oil cooler. Be sure drop the oil pan and clean out.

The blue S&S pump and plate are superior to the fueling.

FlaHeatWave

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Re: Lost a Lifter
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2018, 12:40:56 PM »

2005 SEEG.  Stock 103 motor except for Zippers 575 gear drive cams.  Rear cylinder exhaust lifter failed (bearing).  So far I need to replace the rear cam, lifter and oil pump.  Not a lot of visible crap in the cam chest (the broken piece of lifter and 5-6 bearing rollers) but the cam lobe is scored as well as the oil pump.  Have not yet drained the oil or opened the filter.

Oil pump was a Feuling 7000, looking to replace it with another 7000 or possibly a 7010.  Cam is on the way and have a set of the AMS SE lifters.  Ordering the S&S cam bearing set. 

What more am I looking at to get this back together?  This sucks.......

Chris

How many miles on the Bike / Cam Chest Components??  What Lifters ??

+1 on S&S Pump & Plate
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ultrafxr

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Re: Lost a Lifter
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2018, 12:53:39 PM »

When this happens metal debris is likely throughout the engine as the lifter failed over time. All bearings most likely have been compromised. At a minimum a new Pump, cam plate, and Oil cooler. Be sure drop the oil pan and clean out.

The blue S&S pump and plate are superior to the fueling.
I'm no expert but I have had quite a bit of experience having lost 4 TC 110s (2 motors each on 2 different bikes) to lifter and cam bearing failures.  Sure thought I caught the last one before anything really bad happened.  It made a slight chirping noise and I immediately shut it down and had it towed.  After hearing it for just a few seconds the dealer principal, service manager and tech expected to find broken parts in the cam chest but did not.  Just some slight scoring on the lifter roller and the corresponding cam lobe.  Upon close inspection you could see a flat spot on the lifter roller so it was skating vs rolling sometimes hence the chirp I heard.

But they did find that the crankshaft bearings were toast.  When you move the connecting rod you could feel some resistance and when you let it go it stayed in position.

Sure hope you are luckier but I would really suspect some damage to the crank with the amount of debris you found in the cam chest.
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efrbc1

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Re: Lost a Lifter
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2018, 05:07:13 PM »

55K + for mileage.  Cam chest is Zippers 575 Red Shift with S&S gear drive.  Feuling 7000 oil pump, stock cam plate and stock (B) lifters.

Is there a "flush" process to clean out what you can't see?
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hd-dude

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Re: Lost a Lifter
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2018, 03:22:15 AM »

The only thing you can clean that you can't see is the oil and by removing it you can be sure that's there isn't anything in there. The oil cooler cannot be cleaned out with 100% certainty that there isn't any contamination in it that is why I suggested it be replaced. The rest of the motor is a crap shoot. The damage is done and you have no way of knowing how much without a complete tear down of the engine. Do you have pictures of the damaged parts?
« Last Edit: March 28, 2018, 03:25:03 AM by hd-dude »
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efrbc1

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Re: Lost a Lifter
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2018, 07:27:27 AM »

I can take some pictures.  Sent you a PM last night.  I have a phone number for you from about 10 years ago.  Please forward me contact info in PM reply.

Thanks.
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HD Street Performance

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Re: Lost a Lifter
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2018, 01:23:24 PM »

Get some help from johnsachs
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prodrag1320

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Re: Lost a Lifter
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2018, 08:09:13 AM »

2005 SEEG.  Stock 103 motor except for Zippers 575 gear drive cams.  Rear cylinder exhaust lifter failed (bearing).  So far I need to replace the rear cam, lifter and oil pump.  Not a lot of visible crap in the cam chest (the broken piece of lifter and 5-6 bearing rollers) but the cam lobe is scored as well as the oil pump.  Have not yet drained the oil or opened the filter.

Oil pump was a Feuling 7000, looking to replace it with another 7000 or possibly a 7010.  Cam is on the way and have a set of the AMS SE lifters.  Ordering the S&S cam bearing set. 

What more am I looking at to get this back together?  This sucks.......

Chris

ide use S&S oil pump & lifters,stock cam plate is fine.with out a tear down,its a crap shoot as far as getting all the debris out,im in florida too,let me know if theres anything I can help with

efrbc1

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Re: Lost a Lifter
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2018, 10:24:36 AM »

Thanks to all for the suggestions.  Really on the fence about what to do.  Already ordered the replacement cam and already have the AMS Johnson Hi-lift SE lifters.  Still need to drop the oil pan and open up the filter.  I can do everything myself except rebuild the crank so I am looking at my options to get that done ($$).  I was actually considering selling the bike before this happened so putting a ton of money in it does not make me happy.

Not in a hurry to get this done so I'm thinking that once I see what kind of debris I find I can make a more informed decision.  Spoke with Jim (Metal Dragon) and he made a good point - by the time I heard the noise in the drivetrain, the damage had already been done.

Options are to clean it, replace the cam, cam bearings and oil pump, run it for a bit and sell it (probably $700) or tear it down, replace all bearings, rebuild the crank, replace the cam and oil pump ($2000).  Then have to think about selling it vs keeping it.

Big question/consideration is the crank rebuild.  Metal Dragon sends theirs off for a rebuild which includes pinning and welding the crank ($800).  Original crank is (was) really good (almost no runout).  Wondering if I can get it rebuilt without pinning and welding for less and is this a good option?  Anyone know if this can be done and who to reach out to?

Chris
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ultrafxr

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Re: Lost a Lifter
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2018, 12:57:34 PM »

Thanks to all for the suggestions.  Really on the fence about what to do.  Already ordered the replacement cam and already have the AMS Johnson Hi-lift SE lifters.  Still need to drop the oil pan and open up the filter.  I can do everything myself except rebuild the crank so I am looking at my options to get that done ($$).  I was actually considering selling the bike before this happened so putting a ton of money in it does not make me happy.

Not in a hurry to get this done so I'm thinking that once I see what kind of debris I find I can make a more informed decision.  Spoke with Jim (Metal Dragon) and he made a good point - by the time I heard the noise in the drivetrain, the damage had already been done.

Options are to clean it, replace the cam, cam bearings and oil pump, run it for a bit and sell it (probably $700) or tear it down, replace all bearings, rebuild the crank, replace the cam and oil pump ($2000).  Then have to think about selling it vs keeping it.

Big question/consideration is the crank rebuild.  Metal Dragon sends theirs off for a rebuild which includes pinning and welding the crank ($800).  Original crank is (was) really good (almost no runout).  Wondering if I can get it rebuilt without pinning and welding for less and is this a good option?  Anyone know if this can be done and who to reach out to?

Chris
Like you said if you spend the $$$ to tear it down and fix the crank then you might as well keep it for a while.  Just doing the minor stuff and selling it dumps the very likely future crank failure in the new owner's lap.

A third option might be to offer it for sale 'as is.'  That way the new owner could build the motor as he would like.
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Re: Lost a Lifter
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2018, 01:09:39 PM »

Personally I'd do the repair as cheap as possible.  Drop the pan and replace the broken parts.  If it runs ok either ride it as-is or unload it.  If not then do the whole enchalada.
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Re: Lost a Lifter
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2018, 01:22:09 PM »

Personally I'd do the repair as cheap as possible.  Drop the pan and replace the broken parts.  If it runs ok either ride it as-is or unload it.  If not then do the whole enchalada.


Yes.... but....


I always hate; no, I avoid being the guy who dumps the known or likely problem off on the "next guy."  Have been that "next guy" a few times. Don't like when it's done to me so not doing it to someone else.
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J.D.

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Re: Lost a Lifter
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2018, 01:48:36 PM »

Trade it to the dealer.  Next guys buys an ESP with it and when it grenades ESP replaces engine.  Everyone sleeps at night.
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ultrafxr

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Re: Lost a Lifter
« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2018, 04:03:53 PM »


Yes.... but....

I always hate; no, I avoid being the guy who dumps the known or likely problem off on the "next guy."  Have been that "next guy" a few times. Don't like when it's done to me so not doing it to someone else.
Right you are Don.   :2vrolijk_21:

And as for the suggestion of trading it to a dealer so next owner can get and ESP . . . it is a 2005 model year bike.  Don't have details but that might not be available.

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