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Author Topic: Sumped again!  (Read 42143 times)

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grc

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Re: Sumped again!
« Reply #135 on: May 24, 2018, 07:08:22 PM »

Is anyone familiar with Feuling part # 7097 race series oil pump system. Just ordered one today for the sumping issue. These guys knew the problem before I described it and said they have the fix. Not cheap at $1199 but a lot cheaper thank regular breakdowns and Harley not having an oil pump remedy. Back ordered for 2 weeks, I’ll let everyone know if it fixes our pump issue once I get the bike back in a few weeks. btw, I use RedLine throughout. Thoughts?

http://www.feulingparts.com/products...r%20Drive/7097

I sure hope you got that in writing along with a full money back guarantee.  The odds are quite good that this issue isn't an oil pump issue, but rather something more complex.  Harley has already tried several different oil pumps, and none has fixed the problem.  Once you install those aftermarket parts you will give Harley an easy out if the engine fails. 

Jerry
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Twolanerider

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Re: Sumped again!
« Reply #136 on: May 24, 2018, 07:27:32 PM »

Is anyone familiar with Feuling part # 7097 race series oil pump system. Just ordered one today for the sumping issue. These guys knew the problem before I described it and said they have the fix. Not cheap at $1199 but a lot cheaper thank regular breakdowns and Harley not having an oil pump remedy. Back ordered for 2 weeks, I’ll let everyone know if it fixes our pump issue once I get the bike back in a few weeks. btw, I use RedLine throughout. Thoughts?

http://www.feulingparts.com/products...r%20Drive/7097

There is absolutely zero chance I would install anything aftermarket inside an M8 right now.  The sumping issue is very likely not to be simply a pump issue or an issue solely of parts that simply bolt inside the cam chest.  Do Feuling or anything else aftermarket and you've given Mother Harley all the pretext she need to wash her hands of you for all upcoming failures.

I can understand the desire to want to "fix it" and do it now.  Landing fixation is a bitch.  Going aftermarket right now, however, is just all too likely premature reparation.
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Twolanerider

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Re: Sumped again!
« Reply #137 on: May 24, 2018, 07:28:39 PM »

I sure hope you got that in writing along with a full money back guarantee.  The odds are quite good that this issue isn't an oil pump issue, but rather something more complex.  Harley has already tried several different oil pumps, and none has fixed the problem.  Once you install those aftermarket parts you will give Harley an easy out if the engine fails. 

Jerry


Yeah, what Jerry said ^ .



After all this time I still haven't learned to read to the end of a thread before typing.....  :drink:
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sadunbar

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Re: Sumped again!
« Reply #138 on: May 24, 2018, 10:01:40 PM »


Yeah, what Jerry said ^ .



After all this time I still haven't learned to read to the end of a thread before typing.....  :drink:

I had exactly the same thought process as you and Jerry, but was to lazy to type the response...  It's unfortunate that the MOCO cannot deliver a reliable motor, and also looks for every opportunity to walk away from a customer.  Kind of like lifters, compensators, etc. and etc.  Yep, still do not ever see new MOCO bike in my future - ever...


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Re: Sumped again!
« Reply #139 on: May 25, 2018, 12:56:37 AM »

I think the oil is a symptom, not the problem.  So until the problem is corrected, maybe we can manage one of the symptoms?  By that I mean; is there an oil more resistant to breakdown and foaming while still maintaining viscosity and protection under severe service conditions that these (even stock) motors produce?  There are enough gear-heads on here that someone has to have some experience with a high performance racing-type oil that might fit the bill. 

Changing the oil pump to a different model obviously didn't fix the issue.  That tells me that there is a design flaw in the oil system (oil passages, ports, filter, cooler, bypass, etc.) that restricts or limits oil flow coming out of the pump, and that no amount of pump changes are going to fix it, because the flow is physically limited by the design of the motor itself.     
Just as a FYI, when Harley sent the cylinders and pistons to the machine shop for the "one off, super secret" guaranteed fix for the 3rd motor they put in dino oil for the break in and even put it back in after the 500 mile break in service saying they wanted me to run it to 2500 miles (didn't make it) and then they would go back to the syn. Oil certainly didn't make any difference
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Re: Sumped again!
« Reply #140 on: May 25, 2018, 09:25:42 AM »

Just as a FYI, when Harley sent the cylinders and pistons to the machine shop for the "one off, super secret" guaranteed fix for the 3rd motor they put in dino oil for the break in and even put it back in after the 500 mile break in service saying they wanted me to run it to 2500 miles (didn't make it) and then they would go back to the syn. Oil certainly didn't make any difference

uupper been that route.  was a failure.  got to wonder about the  materials used in the cylinder or the procedure used.
 
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Pan1

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Re: Sumped again!
« Reply #141 on: May 27, 2018, 01:13:03 AM »

While i not own an M8 it seems to me the way the engine could sump would either be:
1- too much oil pump volume
2- drain back passages too small
3- the vent system is getting blocked which prents the oul from properly flowing back into the pan. Similar to draining the oil without opening the dipstick
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happyman

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Re: Sumped again!
« Reply #142 on: May 27, 2018, 09:57:02 AM »

While i not own an M8 it seems to me the way the engine could sump would either be:
1- too much oil pump volume
2- drain back passages too small
3- the vent system is getting blocked which prents the oul from properly flowing back into the pan. Similar to draining the oil without opening the dipstick
too much volume the wrong way not enough volume in the cases and  they many need some looking at to see if all the sharp turns and all the oil below the sensor drain is part of it or a reason for part of it.  the vents in the heads are something I question but then I am far from an expert  . one thing I am, is  a vey unhappy customer. right this minute my bike is getting or has got a new motor installed.  it will be the 117"  and its all what they call  EPA to the max again as usual. for me with these  M8.  will have the street cannon muffs being it had a stage 4 kit it will utilize the  SE TB also.  hope they fixed  it so the next owner can ride off into the sunset and enjoy it. will  never ride the bike again.  will be sold  for several reasons and  one of them is old age  and then the weight of these bike  kinda enters into the picture anymore too. hope  HD has  the cure on this build.if so I will be looking at another bike  maybe the 19.
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Twolanerider

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Re: Sumped again!
« Reply #143 on: May 27, 2018, 12:46:50 PM »

too much volume the wrong way not enough volume in the cases and  they many need some looking at to see if all the sharp turns and all the oil below the sensor drain is part of it or a reason for part of it.  the vents in the heads are something I question but then I am far from an expert  . one thing I am, is  a vey unhappy customer. right this minute my bike is getting or has got a new motor installed.  it will be the 117"  and its all what they call  EPA to the max again as usual. for me with these  M8.  will have the street cannon muffs being it had a stage 4 kit it will utilize the  SE TB also.  hope they fixed  it so the next owner can ride off into the sunset and enjoy it. will  never ride the bike again.  will be sold  for several reasons and  one of them is old age  and then the weight of these bike  kinda enters into the picture anymore too. hope  HD has  the cure on this build.if so I will be looking at another bike  maybe the 19.


Harley?   

After all this immediately looking to give Harley Davidson your money all over again?
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grc

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Re: Sumped again!
« Reply #144 on: May 27, 2018, 04:18:20 PM »


Harley?   

After all this immediately looking to give Harley Davidson your money all over again?

Harley has been making money hand over fist for decades selling new ones to guys who traded their old ones due to major problems.  Once the Boomers are all gone that scenario will likely fade away as well.  Brand loyalty isn't exactly a thing with the most recent couple of generations.

Jerry
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Re: Sumped again!
« Reply #145 on: May 27, 2018, 04:36:44 PM »

Harley has been making money hand over fist for decades selling new ones to guys who traded their old ones due to major problems.  Once the Boomers are all gone that scenario will likely fade away as well.  Brand loyalty isn't exactly a thing with the most recent couple of generations.

Jerry
"Or wiser, get tired of getting screwed w/o getting kissed, or just totally fed up w/the BS".

Trust and believe each and every time I get on my H-D a smile comes on my face and I get reminded of why I wanted/purchased one in the first place, however that feeling isn't to the extreme that I would want to get taken advantage of (purchase a new<er> bike than what I have). Maybe I'm older (wiser?? :nixweiss:) or that I'm now the "old guy" on the block that doesn't want all the young kids running on his lawn (I'm sure we all remember that neighbor as youngsters :D) but I just can't see going back to "the well" only to get "poisoned" (have to fix/replace OEM flaws). :( >:( Add to that nothing has given me the "I got to have it" feeling that my current bike did when I first saw it.

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happyman

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Re: Sumped again!
« Reply #146 on: May 27, 2018, 05:03:54 PM »


Harley?   

After all this immediately looking to give Harley Davidson your money all over again?
lot of if ands or  buts to get me there  the word maybe was used and that covers it. I have had way more than any one should ever have to tolerate without getting all the $$$ invested back in full and the other expenses but that seems to not be the case so you can say I have been run off.  the time alone and the $$$ involved for me is unacceptable with no end in sight  that I am aware off.
  $$$ , frustration and not able to do  anything but ride around a small area  is a huge bummer. has cost me a lot of good riding  and its going to all end .   if  HD can show where there is an actual fix for what I believe is multiple issues  then as said maybe, at my age will not be holding my breath,  to be real honest.   
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skiindean

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Re: Sumped again!
« Reply #147 on: May 28, 2018, 01:23:49 AM »

Harley already voided my warranty, so I’m on my own. I will cancel my ESP.  Feuling does have in writing a 24 month Warranty if the race kit fails. I’ve spent so much on this bike, and with my dealer picking up all costs on the new 107 (6K), new stage 4 kit($2400) and labor,  the Feuling kit is the last monies I’m spending to see if it fixes it. From all I’ve read, I haven’t seen anyone else go this route on my same setup. My confidence level is already zero , and strike 2 with the MoCo. Jumping ship if and when strike 3 happens. I couldn’t be more disappointed, just trying 1 last shot before I give up. I purposely waited for the 2nd year of the new M8 so I wouldn’t have any problems, and yeah I was wrong with what I thought would be an amazing new 2018 bike.



I sure hope you got that in writing along with a full money back guarantee.  The odds are quite good that this issue isn't an oil pump issue, but rather something more complex.  Harley has already tried several different oil pumps, and none has fixed the problem.  Once you install those aftermarket parts you will give Harley an easy out if the engine fails. 

Jerry
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odessyblueIke

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Re: Sumped again!
« Reply #148 on: June 12, 2018, 12:57:23 PM »

One would think with all the replacement motors they have had to supply and all the ones most likely to be replaced,  would be cheaper to issue a recall and fix the ones out there.
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skiindean

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Re: Sumped again!
« Reply #149 on: June 12, 2018, 01:22:03 PM »

That would be great, but they don’t have the fix for it yet. The new engines with latest revision oil pumps are still sumping. Beings my Warranty was voided, I’m trying the $1199 Feuling oil pump kit #7097. It’s a better pump but I honestly won’t know if it’s “solves” the problem until I get my bike back and ride it for many miles. Many here don’t think it’ll do it, and they may be right. Talked to a service manager from a high volume Florida HD dealership and he said he has as many stock bikes sumping as stage kits with and without aftermarket tunes/pipes. So disappointed, not a good riding season.
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