Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: [1] 2 3 4  All

Author Topic: 3rd Stage IV upgrade on my 2017 CVO Limited due to sumping  (Read 7998 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Heatwave

  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1429
  • ‘10 CVO Ultra 120/127 & ‘17 CVO LTD 140/151

    • CVO1: 2017 CVO Limited (Garnet/Red) 128ci
    • CVO2: 2010 SE Ultra (Red/Slate)

For those that have followed, I've had 2 previous engines fail due to sumping. If you're not familiar you can catch up here https://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=112589.msg1434968#msg1434968

My engine is in today for the 3rd Stage IV upgrade (covered by HD warranty). This stock engine has run well since it was installed last August 2017. HD has owed me this upgrade and I want the bike running with the upgrades I paid for and with the performance that HD advertises for the Stage IV kit. So far, both the dealer and HD have stood behind their product attempting to make it right.

Today my 2017 CVO Limited is having the 3rd Stage IV upgrade using the latest Gen 4 oil pump (see pic below). The installation is being done at the same dealer that has performed the other installs but the installation is being supervised with HD engineering support. In addition to the latest oil pump, the Stage IV installation includes a few "one off" parts that engineering believes will ensure a strong engine and no sumping... of course the proof will be in the riding. We'll see soon enough.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2018, 10:33:26 AM by Heatwave »
Logged

J.D.

  • Guest
Re: 3rd Stage IV upgrade on my 2017 CVO Limited due to sumping
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2018, 11:04:38 AM »

Excellent, how cool to be part of the HD R&D process!
Logged

Heatwave

  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1429
  • ‘10 CVO Ultra 120/127 & ‘17 CVO LTD 140/151

    • CVO1: 2017 CVO Limited (Garnet/Red) 128ci
    • CVO2: 2010 SE Ultra (Red/Slate)
Re: 3rd Stage IV upgrade on my 2017 CVO Limited due to sumping
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2018, 11:07:51 AM »

Excellent, how cool to be part of the HD R&D process!

Not so sure how cool it is. I would definitely have preferred NOT being a part of their R&D and simply had my bike working as they advertised and as I paid for. BUT, if the sumping is now a part of the past on my bike, I will be certainly be relieved so I can just get back to enjoying time on the bike.
Logged

J.D.

  • Guest
Re: 3rd Stage IV upgrade on my 2017 CVO Limited due to sumping
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2018, 11:15:03 AM »

Sorry, a lame attempt at sarcasm.

In all honesty I hope they got it right for you.
Logged

RivRaptor

  • Senior CVO Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 350
  • www.CVOHARLEY.com
    • CA

Re: 3rd Stage IV upgrade on my 2017 CVO Limited due to sumping
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2018, 12:04:05 PM »

Myself & others I'm sure would like to know what the  "one off parts" are!
Logged
2017 CVO Street Glide-Dark Slate Candy & Artic Black


Sometimes it's the people who no one imagines anything of that do the things that no one can imagine

grc

  • 10K CVO Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 14216
  • AKA Grouchy Old Fart
    • IN


    • CVO1: 2005 SEEG2
Re: 3rd Stage IV upgrade on my 2017 CVO Limited due to sumping
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2018, 02:54:00 PM »

Myself & others I'm sure would like to know what the  "one off parts" are!

So much for the story it was just an oil pump problem.  If that was the case, they wouldn't need to bring any other prototype parts with them.  In other words, they still don't have a fix nailed down for the root cause(s).

Jerry
Logged
Jerry - 2005 Cherry SEEG  -  Member # 1155

H-D and me  -  a classic love / hate relationship.  Current score:  love 40, hate 50, bewildered 10.

ultrarider123

  • Guest
Re: 3rd Stage IV upgrade on my 2017 CVO Limited due to sumping
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2018, 03:08:37 PM »

Sorry, a lame attempt at sarcasm.

In all honesty I hope they got it right for you.

I caught your drift...

....while it was funny sarcasm, it's a shame your statement was true. 
We all are (and continue to be) unpaid test subjects/lab rats when it comes to new stuff from the MoCo...
Logged

J.D.

  • Guest
Re: 3rd Stage IV upgrade on my 2017 CVO Limited due to sumping
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2018, 03:14:03 PM »

What this does is finally confirm to me mother HD knows they have a real problem on their hands with this M8 engine design.
Logged

Heatwave

  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1429
  • ‘10 CVO Ultra 120/127 & ‘17 CVO LTD 140/151

    • CVO1: 2017 CVO Limited (Garnet/Red) 128ci
    • CVO2: 2010 SE Ultra (Red/Slate)
Re: 3rd Stage IV upgrade on my 2017 CVO Limited due to sumping
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2018, 03:42:39 PM »

So much for the story it was just an oil pump problem.  If that was the case, they wouldn't need to bring any other prototype parts with them.  In other words, they still don't have a fix nailed down for the root cause(s).

Jerry

Well not exactly. More results to follow.

On a separate note, all fluids were spot on their full mark. In other words, the Transmission was exactly where it was suppose to be as well as the Primary and the engine oil was less than a 1/4 Qt low. I had the fluids changed per the manual and after 7800miles not a drop of fluid has moved from the transmission or primary. Also worth noting the coolant was only a hair low.

Of major importance to me on this 3rd engine (Aug 2017 build), the oil jets screws were right on their torque spec and looked good. Crank rods (2500 miles on this engine) rotated freely and looked good according to the tech. Hopefully this engine is on a good path.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2018, 04:31:17 PM by Heatwave »
Logged

*58Vette

  • Senior CVO Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 285
    • VA


    • CVO1: 2011 FLHXSE2 Black Diamond w/Crimson Tag Graphics
Re: 3rd Stage IV upgrade on my 2017 CVO Limited due to sumping
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2018, 07:29:26 PM »

I know when I had my 2007 in the shop waiting on Harley to fix, and it lasted for more than 30 days at a time, I called harley customer service in Milwakee and they paid my loan payments for me until is was fixed.
Logged

Heatwave

  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1429
  • ‘10 CVO Ultra 120/127 & ‘17 CVO LTD 140/151

    • CVO1: 2017 CVO Limited (Garnet/Red) 128ci
    • CVO2: 2010 SE Ultra (Red/Slate)
Re: 3rd Stage IV upgrade on my 2017 CVO Limited due to sumping
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2018, 08:17:06 PM »

I know when I had my 2007 in the shop waiting on Harley to fix, and it lasted for more than 30 days at a time, I called harley customer service in Milwakee and they paid my loan payments for me until is was fixed.

HD has been good to me so far. They put a 7yr ESP including wheel & tire coverage at no charge on the bike. Plus they added the Stage IV to the ESP so those parts are also covered for the entire 7yrs. So while its been a frustrating experience for a new bike, the dealer has turned the bike around in 48hrs with HDs support and tried to accomodate me wherever they could.

Now I just need this bike to perform as I know its capable without sumping.
Logged

SDCVO

  • 2.5K CVO Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2917
  • 19 CVO RG-12 CVO RG
    • CA


    • CVO1: 2019 Mako Shark Roadglide
    • CVO2: 2012 Maple Roadglide
    • CVO3: 2019 BMW K1600 Grand America
Re: 3rd Stage IV upgrade on my 2017 CVO Limited due to sumping
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2018, 11:39:56 PM »

You are certainly nicer than me, my third motor sumped and I am going to war with them and it is not pretty right now..
Logged
Alan

Heatwave

  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1429
  • ‘10 CVO Ultra 120/127 & ‘17 CVO LTD 140/151

    • CVO1: 2017 CVO Limited (Garnet/Red) 128ci
    • CVO2: 2010 SE Ultra (Red/Slate)
Re: 3rd Stage IV upgrade on my 2017 CVO Limited due to sumping
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2018, 11:47:54 PM »

You are certainly nicer than me, my third motor sumped and I am going to war with them and it is not pretty right now..

Yeah, I was “hot” at first too. But it doesn’t really help so whats the point? Chewing out the techs or the service dept is of no help. Chewing out HD Service Rep isn’t going to help either. Once you catch your breath, I found the best approach is being rationale and look for the best path forward that they can deliver that will reasonably meet expectations.

I’m mentally prepared that it is very possible that even with their assurances and “special” care taken to get the bike right, its still possible I might find myself sumping once again. I certainly hope not and trust me, once the engine is properly broken in, if the engine can be made to sump, i will find out. Hopefully its a non-issue and the bike runs great. If not, I guess I’ll be having a VERY different conversatiion with the MoCo.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2018, 10:21:27 AM by Heatwave »
Logged

SDCVO

  • 2.5K CVO Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2917
  • 19 CVO RG-12 CVO RG
    • CA


    • CVO1: 2019 Mako Shark Roadglide
    • CVO2: 2012 Maple Roadglide
    • CVO3: 2019 BMW K1600 Grand America
Re: 3rd Stage IV upgrade on my 2017 CVO Limited due to sumping
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2018, 12:09:31 AM »

Yeah, I was “hot” at first too. But it doesn’t really help so whats the point? Chewing out the techs or the service dept is of no help. Chewing out HD Service Rep isn’t going to help either. Once you catch your breath, I found the best approach is being rationale and look for the best path forward that they can deliver that will reasonably meet expectations.

I’m mentally prepared that it is very possible that even with their assurances and “special” care taken to get the bike right, its still possible I miht find myself sumping once again. I certainly hope not and trust me, once the engine is properly broken in, if the engine can be made to sump, i will find out. Hopefully its a non-issue and the bike runs great. If not, I guess I’ll be having a VERY different conversatiion with the MoCo.
Unfortunately I am in that conversation now.. Not going well. Rep told me it was my riding style today and I ride to aggressively for the stage 4 and should go back to stock and they would put a new stock motor in (mine toast) and refund me the cost of the stage 4. Sure you can imagine my response. Going to meet with his boss sometime in the next 2 weeks and will try 1 more time to resolve and if not just turning over to the attorney (who is of course telling me to turn over to him now and stop wasting my time) for the "long fight"..
The BMW looking better..
Logged
Alan

Heatwave

  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1429
  • ‘10 CVO Ultra 120/127 & ‘17 CVO LTD 140/151

    • CVO1: 2017 CVO Limited (Garnet/Red) 128ci
    • CVO2: 2010 SE Ultra (Red/Slate)
Re: 3rd Stage IV upgrade on my 2017 CVO Limited due to sumping
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2018, 12:30:42 AM »

Unfortunately I am in that conversation now.. Not going well. Rep told me it was my riding style today and I ride to aggressively for the stage 4 and should go back to stock and they would put a new stock motor in (mine toast) and refund me the cost of the stage 4. Sure you can imagine my response. Going to meet with his boss sometime in the next 2 weeks and will try 1 more time to resolve and if not just turning over to the attorney (who is of course telling me to turn over to him now and stop wasting my time) for the "long fight"..
The BMW looking better..

Yep, that’s the same tactic they took with me. My riding style is the problem. That’s BS and they know it. I said you don’t even know my riding style. I’m an experienced riding that is using my bike EXACTLY the way the Stage IV kit is advertised in their parts catalog.

“This Stage IV kit was developed to deliver maximum horse-power from the Milwaukee-Eight engine - all the way to redline”

“Designed for a high level of flexibility, this package is ideal for riders who want stump pulling torque throughout the RPM range and also crave plenty of arm pulling acceleration when you whack the throttle”

“The rider will feel exceptional acceleration, delivering significant gains and up to 40% increase in the higher RPM range.”

These are direct quotes from Harley Davidson’s 2018 SE Performance parts catalog.  Describing the HD SE Stage IV Kit. No one should tolerate any suggestion that “riding style” is at fault. Unacceptable as HD is promoting the Stage IV kit SPECIFICALLY for a more assertive riding style. And suggesting otherwise is nothing more than a bunch of lawyers telling dealer reps to make the issue about the rider and not the bike.

Keep the pressure up.... calmly and rationally. No need for threats, they are a waste of time. Come to agreement on next steps. Make the dealer rep send the agreed to steps in a written email. No verbal agreements unless they are followed up in writing.

They need to be pushed until they spend the money to make these bikes right and deliver the performance they advertise and that we paid for. Nothing less is acceptable.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2018, 10:20:48 AM by Heatwave »
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3 4  All
 

Page created in 0.195 seconds with 21 queries.