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[PAhunter]

Hey guys
The answers on here are impressive and make sense on many subjects, and could really use some clarity please. I'll budget for crank if needed .. I decided on the 117 HD kit. Id really would like some thoughts though on a few things, if you could please help guide them.

~ I was told that if I keep the 50mm throttle body w the 117 kit it would be smoother on low end and possible more torque, I'd really like some validity on this thought?
~ Is there a better cam that would be better suited for the HD 117 kit, that has been tried with a good torque curve? showing 100lbs at 2k rpm and rising w V&H true duels, and Rinehart mufflers.
~ I am also not appose to changing mufflers, where could I find more torque w different mufflers? If were only talking a couple #'s I'm not really going after a change if I lose sound.
~ I am using S&S lifters to replace the SEagle.. If I'm missing something besides crank tell me your recommendations? I plan on leaving head be, for its still riding season here.

Thank-you
Hunter

[Yellow09SERG]

There is like a 40 page thread on the 117 kit and you will find several different cams used through that thread. The SE 585 that several have used seems to be a very good performer down low. I used the 24D Kury and been very happy. Couple guys have went Tman 625 and been very happy also. All of the 117's I know of have all used the 58mm so not sure what information you will find on the 50, but would bet you will run out of air

[TIMINATOR]

#1  no and no. on a stock drop in 117 kit from the moco, you will lose TQ and HP by retaining the 50 mm T body, especially if you have the CVO or MVA heads.
#2  use 2 into 1 headers. Mufflers suck.
#3  see #2
#4  forget the crank we do tons of the 117s and 110s with 120 to over 135 HP. with no issues on stone stock cranks. Hard downshifting cause more crank problems than HP. Get on the S&S website and watch the crank video before listening to me or any one else. TC uses SB Chevy lifters, we use Hylift- Johnson slow bleed down type, google theirwebsite for part #. Any auto parts store can sell them to you  for half of what the indies charge for the same, marked up, reboxed car lifters.
 Do the heads with big valves and some porting. Keep in mind that there are several sources that will sell MVA heads for about $1000 or so.  Don't pay anything near that for headwork that won't produce HP and TQ as well as the MVA heads. We port heads all of the time, but prefer to sell the MVAs as they are a great bang for the buck. 
Boy am I gonna hear about this! But bang for the buck is how I have run my business for over 40 years with no advertising and we are booking labor slots 3 to 5 months out. 

[MCE]

Pardon my ignorance, Maybe I missed something. But what are you ultimately looking to accomplish?
Where are you now and where are you wanting to be?

Retaining the 50mm TB is not going to lower the power output but it will certainly limit any anticipated
increases you're seeking.  It may be (barely) adequate for a low RPM cruiser.

Where do you want your power? Need more info.   

Cheers,
-MC

 


 



 

[PAhunter]

Pardon my ignorance, Maybe I missed something. But what are you ultimately looking to accomplish?
Where are you now and where are you wanting to be?

Retaining the 50mm TB is not going to lower the power output but it will certainly limit any anticipated
increases you're seeking.  It may be (barely) adequate for a low RPM cruiser.

Where do you want your power? Need more info.   

Cheers,

My bike is a 2015 CVO limited, sorry. The throttle body thing was told to me by a tech, that someone did at there shop and seemed to like it.. I do agree it does seem odd.. However, I'm the ignorant here cause I need clarification.

We are mostly two up, so 2 to 4.5k would be great for torque, with no hard dip. When I look at HD'S torque curve, it's got a dip and that bothers me..

Thank you

-MC

[MCE]

If you're set on keeping the 50mm TB; I'd look at a better exhaust, (crusher mellows and good head pipes)
with a set of bolt-in TQ cams. (and of course, a good tune).

Taking it a step further:
A larger TB, (55mm would do), mild pocket port with a little bigger intake valve, compression bump and a little
more cam to go with it. That would get the TQ up some more and let it carry out further, (giving you some
more HP)

Doesn't sound like you're wanting anything too crazy, so it's very do-able without breaking the bank. 

[MCE]

I will also like to add: What's the incentive to add 7 cubes if you're going to restrict it with that TB?
No amount of displacement increase will help if it can't breathe, It makes no sense whatsoever. You
need to re-think your whole strategy here. My 110s make 130/130 using ported 103 head castings.
You'll never get close to that w/o getting air into it. My guys run 58 or 60mm throttle bodies for these
motors.

This would be like leaving a 2 barrel carb on a 502 cubic inch big block. It's never going to make HP
with a restriction like that, and the TQ will nose dive before you ever get on the cam.

I would totally forgo the 117 upgrade and put a decent TB on it. You need at least 55mm.

One more thing and I'll shut up: A smaller TB size will not increase your TQ. It's the size of the runners
you need to be concerned with. (Fuel injection TB is not like sizing a carburettor) Who ever told you that
a 50mm TB is needed to retain TQ doesn't know what they're talking about. It's the runner size, not
the TB diameter that you need to worry about. If you're going to 117, put an HPI 58-60mm on it.


 

[PAhunter]

My question about throttle body was more of a concern and what was told to me by a tuner.. I was not suggesting this is the way to go, I was hoping for clarification and I do thank you and others for the clarification concerning TB.

I did find a 101 page 117 drop in kit that is very educational and I appreciate that lead as well.

[MCE]

My question about throttle body was more of a concern and what was told to me by a tuner.. I was not suggesting this is the way to go, I was hoping for clarification and I do thank you and others for the clarification concerning TB.

I did find a 101 page 117 drop in kit that is very educational and I appreciate that lead as well.

Right on. You could run the 50 for the time being, just don't expect to 'set the world on fire'. Good luck
with whatever you decide. You can always change it later.   

[FLSTFI Dave]

I am using an HPI 55 mm throttle body on my 117 build.  I like the throttle response.  I did not use the HD Kit.  I did use the HD cylinders and injectors.  Everything else is aftermarket. 

[HD Street Performance]

The SE 117 kit includes a HD 58mm throttle body. The works well for most applications. The stock throttle body will hold it back after about the 115hp level. Understand the restriction is not like hitting a brick wall or a governor. You will loose progressively more horsepower as the potential of the other components exceed and demand more air than the TB can supply. In other words as the other components are matched and have the potential to make 130 as opposed to 120 the loss will be more. It is real easy to break 130 with a 117 using the CVO heads and even pop over 140 if all the components match. Stock SE kit makes about 115 even with the 58 TB

[PAhunter]

The SE 117 kit includes a HD 58mm throttle body. The works well for most applications. The stock throttle body will hold it back after about the 115hp level. Understand the restriction is not like hitting a brick wall or a governor. You will loose progressively more horsepower as the potential of the other components exceed and demand more air than the TB can supply. In other words as the other components are matched and have the potential to make 130 as opposed to 120 the loss will be more. It is real easy to break 130 with a 117 using the CVO heads and even pop over 140 if all the components match. Stock SE kit makes about 115 even with the 58 TB

I read that there is a much larger/deeper air element, that is to help w HP ….. but I'd be damn if I can find it. Do you know a part #? or is legitimacy of importance for HP w the 117 kit?

Thanks .. Hunter

[TNCarters]

Cant speak to when this might be needed but here is a link to the filter. https://www.tilleyhdofsalisbury.com/read-more-about-our--specials

Same can be done with some of the extreme air cleaners or heavy breathers. https://www.harley-davidson.com/shop/motorcycle-performance-filters 

[HD Street Performance]

There is a concept that applies, law of constraints.
What is the element of the assembly that is or are the airflow constraint(s) that are getting in the way of reaching the goal?
The air filter, not likely at this horsepower level, or minor at most and especially if the next component in line, the throttle body, is in the way.

[BostonboyDH]

     
      WAIT UNTIL YOU CAN GET YOUR HEADWORK DONE!!!!! Talk with some of the head porters / motor builders on this or any other forum you visit about your plans for your build their headwork & cam choice & the goal your trying to achieve regarding Torque.   It sounds like you want maximum effort from your 117CI motor build with out using all the maximum effort parts.   Why would you be willing to budget for a crank, be willing to spend extra $$$ to swap for a better set of mufflers, spend extra $$$ for S&S lifters, pay for a zero loss air cleaner tear it all down put it all back together again reuse the 50mm TB have it tuned and then feel disappointed because you didn't achieve what you were after, then getting a 55-58 TB, having the headwork done more down time and $$$  installing the parts more $$$ for dyno time re-tuning.   Not knocking your trying to understand the capability of the components you want to use but rather trying to help you save some $$$,  down time and disappointment with the end results. The opinions from those that posted in this thread is sound advice!!!  Do it once use all the correct parts get a tune from a reputable dyno tuner not a dealer tune or canned re-flash map Pay once and ride with a smile.   I also wouldn't be to overly concerned about a zero loss air cleaner such as the Tman or the one from Tillies they are costly and any of the free flowing air cleaners matched for a 55-58mm TB will get you where you want to be regarding TQ the zero loss air cleaners will maximize your HP at WOT.