Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[scottt]

Well, I for one like having plenty of passing power, for out west and the 80 mph speed limit.  I like plenty of power for going up mountain grades and being able to pass.  Like you say, these baggers are heavy, 900 pounds.  So 150 HP like the BMW is where we should be.

Then again I have never believed there was such a thing as to much power.

It's 160hp not 150. Once you've experienced it, you can't turn back. Especially when the bike is designed around the performance. Harley needs to move in this direction.

Sent from my SM-J327T using Tapatalk

[J.D.]

There's always going to be power kits for the random guy pulling a loaded trailer around the mountains, but for the 99+% of the rest of us...

I'm all for maximum reliable horsepower and a well engineered bike with all systems upgraded accordingly.  But there does come a point where more power isn't really needed.

[mark]

There's always going to be power kits for the random guy pulling a loaded trailer around the mountains, but for the 99+% of the rest of us...

I'm all for maximum reliable horsepower and a well engineered bike with all systems upgraded accordingly.  But there does come a point where more power isn't really needed.

I would encourage anyone on this site to demo a K1600B.  What a torque monster.  I don't know if I fit into the 99% or the 1%, but I love that bike. 

[scottt]

There's always going to be power kits for the random guy pulling a loaded trailer around the mountains, but for the 99+% of the rest of us...

I'm all for maximum reliable horsepower and a well engineered bike with all systems upgraded accordingly.  But there does come a point where more power isn't really needed.

There is something special knowing you have enough power to do pretty much anything you desire. Quickly pass , cruise down the freeway at 80 knowing your bike is not breaking a sweat.

Does not mean you ride like a crazy man. Especially if you can have that performance potential without suffering durability, fuel economy or even price.

That's what buyers deserve and i believe many want.

It is available today but not from Harley. I'm saying it should be but won't unless buyers demand it.

Sent from my SM-J327T using Tapatalk

[J.D.]

Don't get me wrong, I'm ok with it as long as there aren't too many tradeoffs.  By that I mean lower reliability, a lot of added weight, etc.  The BMW (and Goldwing) both appear to be well engineered bikes.

Of course you need to be ok with a high-revving, water cooled I6.  I don't see anyone getting there with only 2 cylinders.

I simply don't find myself "needing" more than about 100hp.  Granted I'm not pulling a trailer through mountain passes.

[scottt]

Don't get me wrong, I'm ok with it as long as there aren't too many tradeoffs.  By that I mean lower reliability, a lot of added weight, etc.  The BMW (and Goldwing) both appear to be well engineered bikes.

Of course you need to be ok with a high-revving, water cooled I6.  I don't see anyone getting there with only 2 cylinders.

I simply don't find myself "needing" more than about 100hp.  Granted I'm not pulling a trailer through mountain passes.

The BMW 6cyl and I'm sure Honda Goldwing 6 do not require high revs.

The BMW K1600 6cyl reaches 70 percent of it's 129lb of torque at 1,750 RPM. It revs quickly and effortlessly.

Harley could reach strong Torque and HP numbers with a simple V-4 that's both water and oil cooled. Combined with a modern frame and suspension. Braking system, clutchless shifting option or automatic.

If Harley stepped up and built a all new electraglide like this it would sell very well. Priced similar to the current touring line.

The CVO is a great idea but priced to high, should be reduced around $5,000 along with production cuts. Needs to be special, an honor to own one as it once was. Not cutting on current bike.

Sent from my SM-J327T using Tapatalk

[mark]

Scottt, I'm afraid if the MoCo incorporated your suggestions into a bike to compete with BMW, et al, the MSRP would be in the stratosphere.  We're seeing with the Livewire that HD priced it noticeably higher than the competition, with less power and mileage. 

I'd be happy with seeing the Revolution engine used in a sporty bike to compete with the soon to be released Indian FTR.  Also, re-engineer the Revolution for use in a touring bike...lower reving, better low end torque, etc.

 

[scottt]

Scottt, I'm afraid if the MoCo incorporated your suggestions into a bike to compete with BMW, et al, the MSRP would be in the stratosphere.  We're seeing with the Livewire that HD priced it noticeably higher than the competition, with less power and mileage. 

I'd be happy with seeing the Revolution engine used in a sporty bike to compete with the soon to be released Indian FTR.  Also, re-engineer the Revolution for use in a touring bike...lower reving, better low end torque, etc.

Sadly, I'm afraid your right. Had Harley done what you suggested I'd own one right now.

In my humble opinion, Harley is playing the loyalty card a bit longer than is safe to do so.

Sent from my SM-J327T using Tapatalk

[FLSTFI Dave]

I would encourage anyone on this site to demo a K1600B.  What a torque monster.  I don't know if I fit into the 99% or the 1%, but I love that bike.

I have rode the K1600 GTL.  Loved the power and handling.  Did not like the seating position.  I have not been on the Bagger version.

[Phreakyz]

Engines:   Indian currently makes a 120 HP Liquid Cooled V-Twin that is in the FTR.    The bad thing is that it's 120HP at 8,250 RPM and only 85 Lb Ft of Torque at 6,000 RPM.    If this new mystery motor is like that then it'll suck in a touring bike.   

Personally I like the fact that Harleys are still Air Cooled.    I like my cooling fins and pushrod tubes!   
Water Pumps, Radiators, Cooling Fans, Thermostats, hoses - Are all additional things to break and add to cost.

Suspensions: Monoshock rear on a performance bike I can see, but on a touring bike I think the current suspension is just fine?   My '19 rides better than any of my 4 previous Harley touring bikes.

As for the BMWs...    Pull up on a K1600 and I will pull up on my CVO and we will see which ones the ladies want to take a ride on!

[scottt]

Engines:   Indian currently makes a 120 HP Liquid Cooled V-Twin that is in the FTR.    The bad thing is that it's 120HP at 8,250 RPM and only 85 Lb Ft of Torque at 6,000 RPM.    If this new mystery motor is like that then it'll suck in a touring bike.   

Personally I like the fact that Harleys are still Air Cooled.    I like my cooling fins and pushrod tubes!   
Water Pumps, Radiators, Cooling Fans, Thermostats, hoses - Are all additional things to break and add to cost.

Suspensions: Monoshock rear on a performance bike I can see, but on a touring bike I think the current suspension is just fine?   My '19 rides better than any of my 4 previous Harley touring bikes.

As for the BMWs...    Pull up on a K1600 and I will pull up on my CVO and we will see which ones the ladies want to take a ride on!

Many of us ride for different reasons. Apparently you rate having people looking at you and/or ladies asking for a ride above how the motorcycle performs, handles, brakes and rides. That's not a put down, just being honest. Nothing wrong with that. Apparently many Harley owners have the same view point, the reason there are so many low mile Harleys out there.

I'd go so far as to say i was like that when young. Now that I'm not, it's all about riding and the enjoyment delivered by a motorcycle that performs, handles and rides like a modern bike. Disagree regarding suspension. Harleys current design is outdated. It will be upgraded very soon.

Sent from my SM-J327T using Tapatalk

[mark]

I'm sure IM isn't putting the FTR powerplant in their new fixed fairing touring bike.  Maybe the same base engine, but cam, tune, etc will be a low end torque getter.  I'm afraid air cooled engines are reaching their sunset - as EPA regs require such lean tunes, there's no way to cool off an air-cooled bike without removing the cat and changing the tune. 

If I recall, Steve from Fullsac bought a K1600B and someone hinted at performance upgrades...his response was basically "why?"  I think it's time HD (and IM for that matter) to start making their products appeal to the technology generation.  God isn't producing anymore air cooled baby boomers.   

[scottt]

I'm sure IM isn't putting the FTR powerplant in their new fixed fairing touring bike.  Maybe the same base engine, but cam, tune, etc will be a low end torque getter.  I'm afraid air cooled engines are reaching their sunset - as EPA regs require such lean tunes, there's no way to cool off an air-cooled bike without removing the cat and changing the tune. 

If I recall, Steve from Fullsac bought a K1600B and someone hinted at performance upgrades...his response was basically "why?"  I think it's time HD (and IM for that matter) to start making their products appeal to the technology generation.  God isn't producing anymore air cooled baby boomers.   

It's my understanding that air cooled motors can meet current EPA but it's getting tough. Bottom line is that if you want horsepower/Torque and a engine that reasonably cool for the rider along with high compression and durability. It takes water cooling, at min. The heads.

What was heard about the K1600B or Bagger is true. The straight 6cyl is amazing right off the showroom floor. Those that want more can do a stage one upload. Bren tuning does it. Gives ya a top speed around 175. Too much for me.

Sent from my SM-J327T using Tapatalk

[Phreakyz]

Many of us ride for different reasons. Apparently you rate having people looking at you and/or ladies asking for a ride above how the motorcycle performs, handles, brakes and rides. That's not a put down, just being honest. Nothing wrong with that. Apparently many Harley owners have the same view point, the reason there are so many low mile Harleys out there.

I'd go so far as to say i was like that when young. Now that I'm not, it's all about riding and the enjoyment delivered by a motorcycle that performs, handles and rides like a modern bike. Disagree regarding suspension. Harleys current design is outdated. It will be upgraded very soon.

Sent from my SM-J327T using Tapatalk

My Bike runs, handles and brakes great!  125 lbs ft of torque from a 4 valve 2 cyl engine is nothing to scoff at.  You should test ride one before you say that I obviously don't appreciate performance!     From what I can see, the BMW is only rated at 129 Lbs Ft of torque with all of those extra cylinders flying about?   Torque is where it's at.   Ask the 1970 Buick Gran Sport 455, only 350 bhp but 510 lb ft of torque.  Fastest production muscle car in 1970 and one of the heaviest.

And Brother let me tell you,  if you didn't have a little of that same cantankerous mojo left in your bones, then you would be posting on a Honda Gold Wing forum and not a Custom Vehicle Operations Harley Davidson Site.

[fastfreddy]

My Bike runs, handles and brakes great!  125 lbs ft of torque from a 4 valve 2 cyl engine is nothing to scoff at.  You should test ride one before you say that I obviously don't appreciate performance!     From what I can see, the BMW is only rated at 129 Lbs Ft of torque with all of those extra cylinders flying about?   Torque is where it's at.   Ask the 1970 Buick Gran Sport 455, only 350 bhp but 510 lb ft of torque.  Fastest production muscle car in 1970 and one of the heaviest.

And Brother let me tell you,  if you didn't have a little of that same cantankerous mojo left in your bones, then you would be posting on a Honda Gold Wing forum and not a Custom Vehicle Operations Harley Davidson Site.

scotttttty   has ben lost for awhile now  and I don't think anybody is looking for him