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[SandS RESTOS]

In how many miles should you start thinking of a tearing down your motor and rebuilding.?
Whats a good average price to have the motor rebuilt? Say a 95" motor.
Just looking ahead.

[kraut]

15.000 m 

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

In how many miles should you start thinking of a tearing down your motor and rebuilding.?
Whats a good average price to have the motor rebuilt? Say a 95" motor.
Just looking ahead.

Depends on how it was ridden, and how it was cared for.
Seen 'em come in with over 130,000 on the clock, and the engine had not been opened, and have witnessed issues at 1200 miles as well.
Scott

[eleft36]

UH,
what happened?

Isn't this the question:  Average motor rebuild cost?

Al

[murphy]

UH,
what happened?

Isn't this the question:  Average motor rebuild cost?

Al

UH, I think if you re-read the post there was more than one question there!

[JCZ]

Depends on how it was ridden, and how it was cared for.
Seen 'em come in with over 130,000 on the clock, and the engine had not been opened, and have witnessed issues at 1200 miles as well.
Scott

Coupled with the great variance in mileage is the great variance in costs, depending on what you're having done.

Definition of a rebuild is the key factor......from something as little as the top end all the way to include the top and bottom end, welded crank, etc.  Very roughly......somewhere between $2,000 and $6,000.

[timo482]

factory rebuild

88" 2495 to 2995 depending on amount of chrome mostly

95" upgrade rebuild - 3755 [send in a 88 get back at 1550]

[dlaws01]

I'll do it for $8500.00 plus tax

[JCZ]

I'll do it for $8500.00 plus tax

What is it, exactly, that you'd do for $8,500?

[johnsachs]

I'm on a carburated '02 "B" motor now. Customer has 105,000 miles on it.
Crank runout.
Cam chain tenseniors junk.
Counter balance chain blocks hard as plastic, and break if you bend them.
Pinion bearing bad (plastic cage).
The usual parts that SHOULD be replaced. Almost everything. 
How much ? Ain't figured it out yet, as there's some performance work to do also. 
John

[131fun]

My rebuild consist of the works. Jumped in and did a 131. It was a motor swap. Set me back around $13,500. About 6k miles and ride it like a stole it. No problems so far.. 

[ghosteh]

My rebuild consist of the works. Jumped in and did a 131. It was a motor swap. Set me back around $13,500. About 6k miles and ride it like a stole it. No problems so far.. 

A 131 has to be incredibly fun to ride, but $13K???  There has to be a point of diminishing returns!  At that price, you're not too far off from just buying a new bike (non-CVO, of course).

[JCZ]

A 131 has to be incredibly fun to ride, but $13K???  There has to be a point of diminishing returns!  At that price, you're not too far off from just buying a new bike (non-CVO, of course).

Laughed out loud at this one.  But then.............isn't that the term they use as we're all walking out the door from buying our latest and greatest Harley?

[sadunbar]

My rebuild consist of the works. Jumped in and did a 131. It was a motor swap. Set me back around $13,500. About 6k miles and ride it like a stole it. No problems so far.. 

$13,500 for a motor swap?      How did you accomplish that?      Gold plating with etching?  or?

[VANAMAL]

If you do the labor yourself removing engine and replacing parts
lower end crank weld balance etc $1500.00
heads rebuilt cleaned up $500.00
bore w/new pistons $300.00?
oil pump ,lifters,cam plate $800.00
cams & gear drive $500.00
clutch?
misc gaskets etc?
looks like the cheap way if you can wrench a little is $4000.00 plus
more chrome goodies $$$$$$$

[SandS RESTOS]

If you do the labor yourself removing engine and replacing parts
lower end crank weld balance etc $1500.00
heads rebuilt cleaned up $500.00
bore w/new pistons $300.00?
oil pump ,lifters,cam plate $800.00
cams & gear drive $500.00
clutch?
misc gaskets etc?
looks like the cheap way if you can wrench a little is $4000.00 plus
more chrome goodies $$$$$$$

That's more like what I was thinking. $4000.00 isn't bad.

[131fun]

Gentlemen,

When you roll with the big dogs and buy the works, it's not just the motor that you have to buy. You have to buy new exhaust, clutch, TB, Tuner, hi-tq starter... and yes, labor for the install and tune.

Is it a lot of money? Yes! Could I have bought another bike? Yes! I think a lot of you understand that you have to pay to play. Could you get a nice build for cheaper? Yes! But my bike knows how to party... 

Harleys aren't the cheapest hobby in the world, you know.... There are guys who spent more than me...

I'm havin fun... 131fun!

[fatboi1959]

Still cheaper than a boat habit! I have that problem too!

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

Average we see here, (performance upgrades)is about 3500-4000.
Scott

[SandS RESTOS]

Average we see here, (performance upgrades)is about 3500-4000.
Scott

Scott, is that parts & labor? Motor in and out $ ?

[petewerner]

Scott, I have the SE 95", are the more expensive? Don't I have some sort of counter balance in this CVO motor? What motors have this and is it a seperate shaft or what?? 

[131fun]

First, you have to decide if you are gonna go with the existing motor or get a new one. I went with the more expensive option (new motor). I don't believe you can do a 131 with a stock case. If it is possible, the entegrity of the case would be in question.

The good thing about my option is that I still have an extra motor to tinker with. I can install it on something else or sale it and recoup some money.

Spending $4k will give you a nice build, no doubt, but if you wanna have more fun, you have to spend more money.. It all depends how deep in the game you wanna go... If you think JIMS is expensive, try R&R. They have just a crank that cost more than a lot of people's entire build!!

[Unbalanced]

131fun,

Hopefully you won't have the issues others of us have had with the Jim's motors.   I wish you good luck.   Whats your producing power wise?

[131fun]

136hp/140tq

This is out the crate numbers. If I let Scott do some head work and change the cams then have Joe dyno it, I imagine I would be 145/145 or possibly 150/150.

I've heard stories about JIMS engine problems. They made improvements especially on the lifters where much of the issues were. I think it was the earlier motors with all the problems. The new ones are just fine as far as I know it. It's kinda one of those things like Harley had with motors up until the Twin Cam came out, which was more reliable than the earlier motors.

Scott: care to chime in on some numbers and the cost of head work on a crate 131?

[Unbalanced]

Its not just the early ones that had issues  

Those are healthy numbers for a crate motor for sure who tuned it orginally?   Were those numbers SAE or STD ?.  Doc tuned mine for me.

[131fun]

Those are STD numbers. Latus tune.

I heard all the bad mouthing about JIMS before I purchased it. Again, no problems. It's like anything else; once some sh&t gets said, it travels for eons... A buddy of mine rides honda, and he always tell me how much oil leaked out this week? So things become a stigma that doesn't go away sometimes. We know oil leakage is an old school problem with Harleys. Same thing with JIMS. No problems whatsoever. I had intensive conversation with JIMS before I purchased it. They knew the problems with the earlier models and they corrected them. Now being that it's a performance motor, something could break just like stuff do on a stock motor, but I don't think JIMS is crap or I'll be the first to tell you, with the money that i spent.

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

Scott, is that parts & labor? Motor in and out $ ?

Generally speaking, but each one is different.
Scott

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

Scott, I have the SE 95", are the more expensive? Don't I have some sort of counter balance in this CVO motor? What motors have this and is it a seperate shaft or what?? 

The counterbalancers are in Softail "B" engines.
A little more labor, and usually the balancer chain shoes need replacement as well.
Scott

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

136hp/140tq

This is out the crate numbers. If I let Scott do some head work and change the cams then have Joe dyno it, I imagine I would be 145/145 or possibly 150/150.

I've heard stories about JIMS engine problems. They made improvements especially on the lifters where much of the issues were. I think it was the earlier motors with all the problems. The new ones are just fine as far as I know it. It's kinda one of those things like Harley had with motors up until the Twin Cam came out, which was more reliable than the earlier motors.

Scott: care to chime in on some numbers and the cost of head work on a crate 131?

Head work, cam swap, and a t/body that can keep up with both.
Borezilla's seem to be the pipe.
Scott

[Unbalanced]

Those are STD numbers. Latus tune.

I heard all the bad mouthing about JIMS before I purchased it. Again, no problems. It's like anything else; once some sh&t gets said, it travels for eons... A buddy of mine rides honda, and he always tell me how much oil leaked out this week? So things become a stigma that doesn't go away sometimes. We know oil leakage is an old school problem with Harleys. Same thing with JIMS. No problems whatsoever. I had intensive conversation with JIMS before I purchased it. They knew the problems with the earlier models and they corrected them. Now being that it's a performance motor, something could break just like stuff do on a stock motor, but I don't think JIMS is crap or I'll be the first to tell you, with the money that i spent.

Glad you have no problems and wish you many trouble free miles, to bad we all didn't have that luck even with the new motor.   Although you are mistaken in regards to problems with Jims they are not a thing of the past they are unfortunately still current and real.

[HUBBARD]

Glad you have no problems and wish you many trouble free miles, to bad we all didn't have that luck even with the new motor.   Although you are mistaken in regards to problems with Jims they are not a thing of the past they are unfortunately still current and real.

How do they run now, Harry?  It's been a few years back, '07 or '08, but Ol' Maudie went by a Jim's 131 like it was sittin' up on jack-stands.  It had big dyno numbers, too, but just didn't put the HP to the pavement, IMHO.  Later--HUBBARD   

[Rooster]

A large motor doesn't make you any faster if you don't have the skills to run WFO. Hubbard seems to be well in tune with Ol Maudie and also knows how to get all he wants out of her.

[HUBBARD]

A large motor doesn't make you any faster if you don't have the skills to run WFO. Hubbard seems to be well in tune with Ol Maudie and also knows how to get all he wants out of her.

Thanks for the vote of confidence there, Rooster, but I guess I'm sorta' like the Fox that mated with the Skunk.  I may not get all I want out of Ol' Maudie, I just get all I can stand!  I do come to my senses, somewhat, when the Ol' Girl starts to lift.  That ain't no warm and fuzzy feelin', if you get my drift.  Later--HUBBARD

[Unbalanced]

Hubbard,

How they run is a subjective question to what they put out, and who is at the helm and how far they will twist the throttle.  "Mine" ran fairly well when it was driveable vs. visiting it in the shop which was more than I had it at home.

 

[HUBBARD]

Hubbard,

How they run is a subjective question to what they put out, and who is at the helm and how far they will twist the throttle.  "Mine" ran fairly well when it was driveable vs. visiting it in the shop which was more than I had it at home.

OUCH!! Later--HUBBARD  

[131fun]

Guys,

Performance builds have problems, period. We're pushing the envolope here. That's why we are in this forum. This isn't a JIMS forum of problems. This is a forum for bikes with problems, suggestions, and good fortunes. I'm telling ya'll what I learned from JIMS. Not what I heard. JIMS Rock!! I'm partying like a SOB on mine...    Whoohoo... Whacking that throttle is a frickin rush!! I'm spreading the good fortunes that I'm havin...

R&R has a 5 piece crank that went tits up.. What's the price on this 5 piece crank? It's expensive as hell.. What's that about? I still think R&R makes good products though. Sh$t happens... Gee whiz...

[Unbalanced]

131fun,

You are right performance has its issues, been there done that and broke my fair share of parts along the way, but these issues imo aren't performance related.  I am not telling you what I heard I am telling you what I saw, documented and went through not what Jim's told me.   Anyone interested in buying a Jim's motor should have both sides of the story to make an informed decision to purchase or not purchase.   

In Jim's defense even though it took many many months Jim's stood behind their product and made it right, which is more than some companies would have done.   

Cam plates with soft metal issues and/or alignment problems, flywheels that hit the cases, heads that leaked oil through the intakes, oilers,  Power Glide II lifter issues, low initial compression (153 ccp) from the factory these are not performance issues, but what I would consider Q/A, Q/C and Assembly problems.

In the end they replaced my cases, flywheels, cam compartment and even kept my original heads and sent the new ones to Dave Mackie to be inspected and Q/A'd for my motor.   I now have a completely refurbished (new) motor sitting in a box in the garage .   8500+ dollars I wish I had spent with S&S.   

I agree to disagree and move on. 

Enjoy twisting the wick and hope yours stays together better than mine.

   

[131fun]

Wow, that’s a string of bad luck. I never heard of JIMS having that many problems. Dang sure hadn’t witnessed it with mine. Sounds like your motor was on the recall. Even cars have recall, but that doesn’t mean all cars are crap. Heck, even airplanes have recall parts. We still get on planes, though.

Just goes to show the improvements JIMS made over the years. Nowadays, JIMS crank is welded is standard—not an option like older days. The case is much stronger than stock cases so you can go much greater than a 131… but I’m not gonna create a list of cool stuff about JIMS. I’m just saying no need to fear JIMS motor no more than you have to fear HD oil leaks of the past. Just think there are bikers who bad mouth R&R and S&S as well. Heck, there’s bikers that bad mouth every damn part out there. Whatcha gonna do? You gotta buy somebody’s sh$t unless you can make all of your own parts.

This thread was seriously jacked, so indeed we must move on in discussing JIMS.   


I know other JIMS owners who haven’t had any problems either, but I only speak for me.

My advice, if you really want to party, get a JIMS… 131 to be exact…

Wish you the best with all of your biking project, Unbalanced

Cheers

[Rooster]

I was in the same boat as Harry. Jim's took care of my motor as well even shipping back and forth. I decided to give it another try and so far so good. Only time will tell, I had 8k before it went the first time.

[131fun]

Ha! Ha! Ya’ll make for fun reading! Everybody is coming out the woodwork about their JIMS. Gee, this engine is more popular than I thought.  One minute nobody had this motor cuz it’s too expensive. Now everybody has one that’s broken.. Hey Bubba, how's yers JIMS doin? LOL

Anyway, I would consider Axtell’s products if I were to go with a build on a stock case. The cylinders are beefy! They are good folks too. Just right off the bat, you prolly can get a nice 117 kit for under $3K. I would prolly do a 117 over a 120. The 117 is really popular and run with the best of them.

Someone here could do a better job than me on 117 cost including tune. It’s definitely a force to be reckon with.

[Rooster]

I really like the 131. That is why I put it back in. There is talk of 120's and 131's back in the archives. 131fun I see you are relatively new to the site. It sure is great to hear you are enjoying yours and have no issues. The rest of us are just hoping for the same.  Come on out to Tahoe in June and ride with us it's going to be a great time.

[131fun]

I really like the 131. That is why I put it back in. There is talk of 120's and 131's back in the archives. 131fun I see you are relatively new to the site. It sure is great to hear you are enjoying yours and have no issues. The rest of us are just hoping for the same.   Come on out to Tahoe in June and ride with us it's going to be a great time.

Yep, I'm a newbie to ya'll folks. I noticed that some forums favor one product over another. It's sweet to know someone on this forum likes JIMS too! The motor is such an animal, people don't know weather to love it or hate it.   My goodness, thank you for help making my point. JIMS motor problems in the archive section. Sounds like the old motor. In the archive section cuz it's older info, but still good info, by the way. Model A had problems too, I heard. Just a little humor on the Model A.  

I would like to say that the average cost depends on how many ponies you want. I would think up to 120cubes, the kit would be around $3k, but at some point you'll have to reinforce other parts of your bike like the clutch, T/B, exhaust, etc. at some point. So just getting a $3k kit is just the beginning. All the other parts have to keep up with the new hp and tq.

What ride is that in Tahoe in June? What dealership do ya'll hang out at. Depending on my funds, I might slip Tahoe in. Maybe I should hold onto the funds just in case JIMS break down on me. LOL.

Rock on guys!!

[Unbalanced]

Rooster how many miles you have on the rebuild of the motor after your Jim's problems?   Yours nor mine were old motors lol.   131fun Archives just means past posts there really isnt an archiving per se.

[JCZ]

Rooster how many miles you have on the rebuild of the motor after your Jim's problems?   Yours nor mine were old motors lol.   131fun Archives just means past posts there really isnt an archiving per se.

Whew.....I thought it meant Terry (Rooster) is getting really old.

[Unbalanced]

JCZ,
Had to go back and check getting old ya know, but I did say motors not units 

[Rooster]

Harry, only one thousand miles so far. I had 8k when it went the first time. I was trying to decide whether to reinstall the 131 or tear down the 110 and build it right when Mrs. R asked Doesn't the 131 have everything you would do to the 110? And I answered the 131 is going back in. I still have more faith in the 131 than I did with the 110 and I still have the 110 in a box so I could completely redo it if I choose. And JC you are still older than me.

[131fun]

No offense guys, even if a rider is an old geezer, it doesn't matter. There are old geezers who have more energy than young guys. I'm glad I wasn't on JIMS recall. There are a lot of JIMS riders out there who haven't had any problems with the engine. I've talk to them, but I just speak from my experience. A few guys said they snapped the belt on their belt drive and switch to chain drive. That's torque, dude. JIMS is on the national race circuit... A lot of pros run JIMS.

Rooster you're making a good move by sticking by the 131. People might envy your build cuz the 131 is such a huge build. I'm sure the rush that you get with the 131 is well worth it. Your 131 is a whale against a stock motor of tic-tacs.  What's the average cost of your beast?

Are the rest of ya'll still interested in talking average cost for a build? I think the 117 is a hot build to have. Any feedback on the 117 from any name brand?


If you wanna have fun, get a 131... JIMS baby....and kick the competition where the sun don't shine...

[Rooster]

What ride is that in Tahoe in June? What dealership do ya'll hang out at. Depending on my funds, I might slip Tahoe in. Maybe I should hold onto the funds just in case JIMS break down on me. LOL.Rock on guys!!

[/quote]

 Here is a link for the info on the GTG in Tahoe. Don has picked a very affordable hotel  . Seriously, if you can make it to one of the CVO GTG's you'll have a great time, and meet some awesome people.


http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=52512.0

 As far as dealership's I hang out in.....2 hours away don't get to hang out much.....Latus Motors in Gladstone Oregon.
Where are you from?

[131fun]

Beaverton. Just a little NW of Gladstone. Sounds like fun ridin'. We'll see how much ridin' I'll get under my belt this year.

I look forward to my discussion with ya'll..

Cheers

[Half_Crazy]

When you roll with the big dogs and buy the works, it's not just the motor that you have to buy. You have to buy new exhaust, clutch, TB, Tuner, hi-tq starter... and yes, labor for the install and tune.
Is it a lot of money? Yes! Could I have bought another bike? Yes! I think a lot of you understand that you have to pay to play. Could you get a nice build for cheaper? Yes! But my bike knows how to party...

+1 and 100% agree!

If you wanna dance, you gotta pay the band. Big horsepower is not cheap... and if you go cheap... you'll learn that you get exactly what you pay for. 

[HUBBARD]

If you wanna' be quicker, stick with Zipper's.  Ain't seen a Jim's 131 pass Ol' Maudie so far.  I know there's always a first time, but all things considered, especially the empty weight of Ol' Maudie being 970 lbs, the Jim's 120's and 131's up here, just ain't got it.  They run good, but not like a Zipper's in a flat out, WFO long run on the Interstate.  As said, "Speed costs money.  How fast do you want to go?"  To each his own, IMHO.  Later--HUBBARD   

[JCZ]

Harry, only one thousand miles so far. I had 8k when it went the first time. I was trying to decide whether to reinstall the 131 or tear down the 110 and build it right when Mrs. R asked Doesn't the 131 have everything you would do to the 110? And I answered the 131 is going back in. I still have more faith in the 131 than I did with the 110 and I still have the 110 in a box so I could completely redo it if I choose. And JC you are still older than me.

Damn.....how'd I get drug into this?  I'm pleadin "not guilty, yer honor!" and I'm stickin to it!

Now back on topic........Terry, you still have time in the down season to get that 110" built and keep it stand by so that you don't miss any of the riding season this summer.  Justsayinzall.

[Half_Crazy]

As said, "Speed costs money.  How fast do you want to go?"

My engine builder says "The only limits are MY imagination and YOUR wallet". LOL

[fatboi1959]

That's a great saying Half Crazy! All i can say is i hear people say i just don't see why people want to modify their engines...it's so stupid! They don't know what riding a Harley is all about...it's not the speed it's the ride and besides they will void their warranty! Then when were following a truck through winding roads for ever and i jump out and pass while they keep following for ever and ever the next time we stop it's like i wish my bike was as fast as yours! I give up! I'll eventually tell them i'm one of those idiots that spend thousands on my engine and their all quiet. It's not just the engine cost the rest of the drive train has to anti up! Then i'll say all said and done with my fancy oil cooler suspension parts etc i'm at $8,500 they almost faint.If you want to play you have to pay. So in my opinion the 13,500 for the Jim's is justified.

[SandS RESTOS]

Is 2 still better than 1? I'd keep the bike I have and buy another one for $13,500.00. Split the mileage between them so's not to where either them out so quickly.

[Half_Crazy]

i hear people say i just don't see why people want to modify their engines...it's so stupid! They don't know what riding a Harley is all about...it's not the speed it's the ride

I get those same comments all the time! "It's a CRUISER" -- "If you want fast, buy a 'Busa" -- "Why spend big bucks to make a slow bike fast?"-- "The speed limit is 65" -- "You spent WHAT???"      People think I'm bat-sh!t-crazy.

Then there's guys that say "It's all about the torque. These things make 80 ft-lbs at 2400 RPM". They're right, it is all about torque, that's why I make 100 ft-lbs off-idle... and that's why my bagger will run 11s thru the 1/4 mile with the ol' lady on the back.

As the guys here have found out, under warranty they will put the bike back to stock. How'd that work out for ya? The warranty will still cover everything but the drive train... and I don't want the dealer workin' on the motor anyway, so I'll take my chances.

I wish I had been smart enough to do it right, all at once. That would have cost me around $6800. But no! I did it in steps and didn't listen to the right advice, and it ended up costing $10 grand! No matter. This will be one FUN riding season!

[Rooster]

Damn.....how'd I get drug into this?  I'm pleadin "not guilty, yer honor!" and I'm stickin to it!

Now back on topic........Terry, you still have time in the down season to get that 110" built and keep it stand by so that you don't miss any of the riding season this summer.  Justsayinzall.

I hear ya JC

[Jock]