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[DHTDHT]

Regarding the choice of oil and engine noise, it is a general observation that in all motorcycles (not just HD) that synthetics actually increase engine noise due to their lower viscosity.  A thicker oil has sound damping properties.

On another issue, I have been reading lately that Mobil-1 is no longer fully synthetic.  A few years ago Mobil-1 sued another manufacturer because the competitor was calling their product synthetic, when it was not.  The competitor prevailed because, as I understand it, their product performed as well as a full synthetic, and had enough modification to the base oil that it could be considered synthetic.  Shortly afterwards, Mobil-1, having lost the suit, stopped using fully synthetic in their products!  If my memory serves me, the only two readily available true synthetics are Redline and Amsoil. In BMW bikes, in a side-by-side comparison, their own "synthetic" formulation proved better than Mobil-1 V-twin.  This was not a study by BMW, but by an independent group of enthusiasts.  I have used Mobil-1 V-twin on all of my bikes up until now, and have had no complaints, but I am now suspicious of their new formulation.

Redline makes 20-60 weight for "Air-cooled American V-twins."  I'll be trying this out next week. The heavier weight makes sense for the '07 bikes that are running hotter.  

[grc]

Regarding the choice of oil and engine noise, it is a general observation that in all motorcycles (not just HD) that [highlight]synthetics actually increase engine noise due to their lower viscosity[/highlight].  A thicker oil has sound damping properties.

On another issue, I have been reading lately that Mobil-1 is no longer fully synthetic.  A few years ago Mobil-1 sued another manufacturer because the competitor was calling their product synthetic, when it was not.  The competitor prevailed because, as I understand it, their product performed as well as a full synthetic, and had enough modification to the base oil that it could be considered synthetic.  Shortly afterwards, Mobil-1, having lost the suit, stopped using fully synthetic in their products!  If my memory serves me, the only two readily available true synthetics are Redline and Amsoil. In BMW bikes, in a side-by-side comparison, their own "synthetic" formulation proved better than Mobil-1 V-twin.  This was not a study by BMW, but by an independent group of enthusiasts.  I have used Mobil-1 V-twin on all of my bikes up until now, and have had no complaints, but I am now suspicious of their new formulation.

Redline makes 20-60 weight for "Air-cooled American V-twins."  I'll be trying this out next week. The heavier weight makes sense for the '07 bikes that are running hotter.  

DHT,

Hate to be disagreeable, but viscosity has nothing to do with synthetic / non-synthetic.  A SAE 50 synthetic has the same viscosity as a SAE 50 dino oil at the specified test temperature (100°C).  

BTW - the following is from the current product data sheet for Mobil 1 V-Twin:
------------------
[highlight]Mobil 1 Motorcycle Oils are formulated with 100 percent synthetic fluids[/highlight]. The unique, synthetic structure of the Mobil 1 Motorcycle formulations enable them to offer advantages well beyond conventional motorcycle oils of similar viscosities. For example, conventional base oils change viscosity as the temperature changes, much more so than synthetic fluids. This characteristic forces manufacturers of conventional, multigrade motorcycle oils to use additive thickeners which will help the oil maintain its viscosity as temperature increases. These thickeners can shear down and lose their thickening capacity in an operating engine or transmission. Synthetic fluids do not require much thickener to achieve a multigrade viscosity rating and, in some cases, do not require any thickener. Hence, synthetic formulations will provide a more shear stable, protective oil film for engine bearings, piston rings, transmission gears, etc. than will a conventional oil of a similar viscosity grade.


All three Mobil 1 Motorcycle formulations offer excellent flow characteristics at low temperatures to reduce engine wear at start-up, and outstanding resistance to oxidation and/or volatilization at high temperatures, both of which degrade the oil. Further, the Mobil 1 Motorcycle Oils provide outstanding protection against engine wear under high-temperature, high engine speed conditions. Each of the Mobil 1 Motorcycle product formulations have been optimized to meet the unique performance characteristics demanded by motorcycle engines and thus, provide an even higher level of performance and protection for motorcycle engines than the Mobil 1 Automotive engine oils.
-----------------

Jerry

[JR]

Thanks Jerry

I just went to Mobile1 on my 17,500 service. i haven't noticed any quieter of an engine...I guess it woud help if I turn my radio down. [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif] [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]

                                                            JR [smiley=banana.gif]

[DHTDHT]

Hey Jerry, it's okay to disagree!  You are correct that being synthetic does not necessarily mean lower viscosity, however, most synthetics happen to be less viscous in the lower temps.  Just pour some Mobile 1 into your bike, it is much thinner than conventional oil. Yes, I know that is at low temperature...but between startup and full warmup, you will certianly perceive a louder engine with synthetic.  I appreciate Mobil 1's plug, but remember, they lost their law suit based upon the use of the word "synthetic."  Synthetic, as I understand it, no longer means synthetic as long as it functions in tests as well as synthetic and the molecules have been modified by man...not necessarily synthesized by man, but modified.  I could be very wrong on this, but it is what I have been reading lately.

[HuskyDavidson]

 

My 2001 Screaming Eagle RoadGlide

Using syn3 didn't shift well. Motor seem noisy.

Put Mobil1 through out, bike shifted well even when hot,
Motor ran more quiet.

[RAINEY]

Regarding the choice of oil and engine noise, it is a general observation that in all motorcycles (not just HD) that synthetics actually increase engine noise due to their lower viscosity.  A thicker oil has sound damping properties.

On another issue, I have been reading lately that Mobil-1 is no longer fully synthetic.  A few years ago Mobil-1 sued another manufacturer because the competitor was calling their product synthetic, when it was not.  The competitor prevailed because, as I understand it, their product performed as well as a full synthetic, and had enough modification to the base oil that it could be considered synthetic.  Shortly afterwards, Mobil-1, having lost the suit, stopped using fully synthetic in their products!  If my memory serves me, the only two readily available true synthetics are Redline and Amsoil. In BMW bikes, in a side-by-side comparison, their own "synthetic" formulation proved better than Mobil-1 V-twin.  This was not a study by BMW, but by an independent group of enthusiasts.  I have used Mobil-1 V-twin on all of my bikes up until now, and have had no complaints, but I am now suspicious of their new formulation.

Redline makes 20-60 weight for "Air-cooled American V-twins."  I'll be trying this out next week. The heavier weight makes sense for the '07 bikes that are running hotter. 

Since this thread has been brought back from the dead I'll throw in a little more information on this one.  Everyone loves an oil thread.

Mobil 1 has always been a true synthetic using a PAO Group IV base stock.  The legal issue that is referred to was another large global lubricant company taking a shortcut and devaluing the technology and marketing efforts by companies that were using "True" synthetic basestocks.  A judge that has no idea about lubricants said they can call theirs a synthetic because they refined it more and was a Group III instead of a II+. 

By the way Amsoil buys their PAO synthetic base stock from Mobil.  Amsoil is a great balanced and blended oil with unlimited viscosities and formulations.  The only issue I ever see with Amsoil is that there's a lot of people selling it that have no clue what they are really selling and misrepresenting the product and it's capabilities.  What you don't read about is all the smoked motors because someone drank the kool aid read that they can extend their drains and even triple their miles between oil changes.  You still need to check your oil, still need to change the filter that is catching the suspended particles and soot, and you cannot run extended drains without a good oil analysis program and the ability to read the results properly when you get them. 

I have spent years in the lubricant field and now own an oil analysis lab.  I've seen the best and the worst of it all.

Red Line is a great product from the latest testing that I've been doing with customer that is switching everything to Red Line.  There's a lot of junk oil on the market but most of the nationally and global brands are good as long as they meet the specification of the manufacturer.  Some oils just barely meet the spec while others far exceed the specification.

[kiro]

Thanks for the post RAINEY - interesting read with some astute observations... 

[LC110]

 Tribology really makes my day. 

[spook120]

So if Redline is 20w60 oil compared to the 20w50 of Mobile one is it any better or different in use.  I had a 120 T man motor in my 06 street glide that kept eating starters with its 11.3 compression ratio even with compression releases and the HD tech wondered out loud if the Redline 20/60 I was running had anything to do with the difficult starting issue.  Just throwing that out there for discussion as I just changed my 15 CVO SG over to Mobile one V twin oil. 

[joshcobra]

I'm wondering if this is the cause of the issue I am having with my 14 breakout. I noticed a change in the sound of the exhaust one day just before the 1k service. Right after the service the sound was back just as it should be. Sounded amazing again, just like a Harley should. Then a week after my 1k service the exhaust note changed again, it went back to a raspy higher pitch rather than the deep thump that we usually hear. It's been driving me absolutely nuts. I finally took it into the dealer to have them trace down what the issue is, no loss of power, just a change in noise. I had them use oem/factory specified oil which is gong to be the Harley synthetic. I'll swap to Mobil 1 and see if that helps.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SteveFLHTK]

Personally, I would choose a good dino oil over Synth3.  I changed years ago in my '99 FLHTCI and noticed an immediate difference.  The difference was more profound at the time than switching from dino to synth3 to begin with.  From all accounts I have seen, all legitimate sources, synth3 is the worst of all the synthetics, and may, in fact, not be as good as a good dino oil.

[SteveFLHTK]

Hey Jerry, it's okay to disagree!  You are correct that being synthetic does not necessarily mean lower viscosity, however, most synthetics happen to be less viscous in the lower temps.  Just pour some Mobile 1 into your bike, it is much thinner than conventional oil. Yes, I know that is at low temperature...but between startup and full warmup, you will certianly perceive a louder engine with synthetic.  I appreciate Mobil 1's plug, but remember, they lost their law suit based upon the use of the word "synthetic."  Synthetic, as I understand it, no longer means synthetic as long as it functions in tests as well as synthetic and the molecules have been modified by man...not necessarily synthesized by man, but modified.  I could be very wrong on this, but it is what I have been reading lately.

Mobil1 had a formula change a few years ago due to EPA restrictions and drastically lowered their zinc component which is for help in engine wear.  The VTwin formula still ahs the higher zinc, which is why I use it.  I wonder if that could be the formulation change you are referring to.

[SteveFLHTK]

Since this thread has been brought back from the dead I'll throw in a little more information on this one.  Everyone loves an oil thread.

Mobil 1 has always been a true synthetic using a PAO Group IV base stock.  The legal issue that is referred to was another large global lubricant company taking a shortcut and devaluing the technology and marketing efforts by companies that were using "True" synthetic basestocks.  A judge that has no idea about lubricants said they can call theirs a synthetic because they refined it more and was a Group III instead of a II+. 

By the way Amsoil buys their PAO synthetic base stock from Mobil.  Amsoil is a great balanced and blended oil with unlimited viscosities and formulations.  The only issue I ever see with Amsoil is that there's a lot of people selling it that have no clue what they are really selling and misrepresenting the product and it's capabilities.  What you don't read about is all the smoked motors because someone drank the kool aid read that they can extend their drains and even triple their miles between oil changes.  You still need to check your oil, still need to change the filter that is catching the suspended particles and soot, and you cannot run extended drains without a good oil analysis program and the ability to read the results properly when you get them. 

I have spent years in the lubricant field and now own an oil analysis lab.  I've seen the best and the worst of it all.

Red Line is a great product from the latest testing that I've been doing with customer that is switching everything to Red Line.  There's a lot of junk oil on the market but most of the nationally and global brands are good as long as they meet the specification of the manufacturer.  Some oils just barely meet the spec while others far exceed the specification.

Nice to hear some info from a professional that is in the business but no vested interest in a particular brand.

My personal view is this.  I don't buy into the whole extended interval thing as I haven't ever gone the route of having my oil tested.  Not saying I wouldn't, just doesn't seem a reasonable expense when we are talking about 4 quarts every 5k miles.  Now if I was running an engine with considerably more capacity, and therefore expense in changing, I would certainly consider it.  I personally have no preference among the top brands.  I will buy Amsoil, Mobil 1, or any other name brand motorcycle formulation.  I stick with the MC formulas because of my previous post concerning the zinc in the formulations.  I could be wrong about it, but that is the way I operate at this point in time.