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[Twolanerider]

This stuff is just unbelievable to me.  Or it would be if I didn't see it first hand.

An older gentleman that lives several hours south of me has a Road King.  He took it to his local dealer for a problem whose description was "the bike just shuts off."  Not that it would stop running.  It would shut off completely.

I know this is the description he gave the service writer as I wrote the note he gave them when the bike was dropped off.  This guy used to ride 20-25k miles a year.  He's in his 70s now and still does about half that.  The bike has just over a 100k miles.

First time the bike went in it came back ten days later with a new crank position sensor.  Totally unrelated to the problem description.  Parts and labor down the drain. 

I called the shop for him for a next service attempt and spoke to the service writer myself.  Explained it wasn't an engine shut down problem.  Everything was shutting off.  Bike goes back in.

Two weeks go by and "we can't find it."  They were asked what they did to make the attempt.  They let it sit and idle for 15 minutes several different times and let it sit with the switch on until the battery went dead to see if anything would shut off.  That was the extent of the diagnostic attempt.  Three hours labor and directions to take it home and ride it more.

The owner does.

On the ride home the bike shuts off.  In traffic on I-40. 

Bike goes back to the shop.  Remember that the engine has always run fine.

He gets a call back after this attempt explaining that the engine is "just shot" because of all the miles.  That's why it's shutting off.  The guy calls me after this and asks me to call them. 

In the ensuing chat the tech gets livid when very politely asked to justify the diagnosis and explain it.  Says he "doesn't have to explain chit to" someone that "doesn't even own the bike" and doesn't "have a clue."

A call to the service manager is only met with repeated queries of why was I calling instead of the bike owner.  Wouldn't address the diagnosis or the prior service attempts even though the bike's owner had told him I was his point of contact now.  Finally moved up to the GM and at least got a conversation.

It was explained to me that "when they get that many miles things like this get more normal."  It was further explained that "most bikes don't make it that many miles" so this is an "unusual service problem."  No, he wasn't smart enough to recognize the contradiction between it becoming "more normal" and "unusual" both at the same time.

I just about lost it.  Didn't. Would have been counterproductive.  But wanted to.  Were it a cleak dealing with my own bike rather than trying to gain something for a friend.....

Anyway, asked the guy exactly how many places in the system could cause the type of shut down that was described, if they'd actually checked those few places?  Response was "well, uh...."   

Then asked when he'd get it looked at again.  This was about a month ago.  Hadn't heard any more since then.  Got a call early today from my friend.  The bike was done.  He was picking it up shortly.  Didn't know what they'd done but this bill was another $780.  All tolled he was in about $1300 for the various service attempts.

They'd replaced the ECM this time.  Not a chance that was the problem.  It shut off on him again as he had only the switch on and bounced out of his trailer in to his garage.  It started back up, he pulled back in to the trailer and headed this way. 

Has just left on his way home.  Fixed.  Took about an hour, including a trip to the parts store.

Corroded and mostly eaten away socket around the maxi fuse.  Quick trip to a local parts store for another socket.  He was done for ten bucks.  Everything around the fuse panel and maxi fuse had a normal patina of dust.  Not a finger print or other mark.  No one had ever looked inside the left side cover. 

He's not even calling the shop back to complain.  Simply beaten down by the episode.  They wouldn't do anything anyway.  That's a given based on their reactions so far.  Hubris and narcissisum run amok.  Crap like this is enough to make me think about selling the other two bikes and finally riding something else.  It's not enough to simply no longer patronize the MoCo as response to what they've become.  Don't even want to represent them with nice bikes of my own.  Public at large wouldn't understand the difference and might still be interested in Harley just because they see cool bikes.

[1sharprdkg]

So very sad but unfortunately true. The really sad part is it is not limited to just one dealership.

[LincolnUSA]

Wow...I feel really bad for that guy.  Are you inclined to follow-up with that GM and try to get him a credit?  that is immoral. 

[martys]

Don... do you think that a copy of this letter and maybe a few other well phrased lines , to Mother Harley's customer service dep' at HQ would help at least get this gentleman's money back?  It really saddens me that they would treat him with such disregard. 

[Ironhorse]

Sorry to hear that. Please tell us the dealer and the names of the service people so we can avoid them. Does the dealership have a Facbook Page? There is nothing worse than bad PR on an open forum.

[RayG]

In all honesty do you really think that this is unbelievable?  I'm not in any way shocked or even surprised.  You & Jerry have given us all an education in the MOCO's lack of attention to even the most rational situation.  I really feel bad for your friend.  Just think of how many are lied to and just charged whatever they want and the dealers just continue to get away with it.  I won't say never but it is unlikely that I will ever purchase another Harley.  It seems they really hit you below the belt this time,  I'm getting used to being told BS when ever I have to go to the dealership.  I went through a bunch of crap today due to some poor workmanship for my last bit of warranteed work but I'll save that for another day.  It was good of you to help a friend, and that is some piece of mind for him.   

[DaveL]

So sad for sure, hoping someone in forum has the right contact in Mothership customer service t o forward this to.....and that the dealerships name is shared to pray can prevent some other soul going in there! 

Hear too many poor service groups over the years for sure.   I feel fortunate I've never experienced any less than a favorable service experience on multiple bikes with my local shop, Columbia Harley. 

[Ironhorse]

Thank God for Metal Dragon and all the other decent, honest independent shops run by intelligent people.

[King Glide]

And it was you that was giving me a hard time for allowing the stealer service manager to put me off tightening my steering head. Your buddy should have been as lucky as I have. These kind of things will happen forever unless we the customer find a way to make it stop. I wish I knew a way.....

[porthole]

Don - is this a shop you regularly deal with? Why not bring the old parts back on a busy day and "edumacate" them a bit 

[Twolanerider]

Don - is this a shop you regularly deal with? Why not bring the old parts back on a busy day and "edumacate" them a bit 

It's not.  He's quite a ways south of me toward central Arkansas.  The shop has no inclination to speak with me as I'm not their customer and, so far as they're concerned, they're done with their customer.

We've learned before here that writing or calling the MoCo on another's behalf only makes them dig in their heels.  It happened a long time ago with Mrs. We and can remember it happening a couple of times since.  So there's probably nothing gained and perhaps something lost here as, while he's not going back to the dealership, he is going to contact Mother Harley.

We took pics of the actual problem today and documented the simple repair.  He'll use that as he can to contact whomever he gets passed to.  Neither of us is expecting much.  Just wish he lived closer.  We would've sorted it out to begin with.

I asked if he wanted to yell the service writer and dealership's names on high.  Venting was ok but he doesn't want to get too specific until he's taken his shot with Mother Harley.  As for me I just couldn't believe they missed something that wasn't just so simple but so easily obvious.  The bike couldn't tell them what was wrong and they were too stupid and/or lazy to actually try to diagnose a problem.  Wouldn't surprise if the oldest guy in the shop turned out to be 25 and thought different sized USB ports were as important as a set of wrenches.

[Sklywag]

Unfortunately this is the really more the norm than we would like to admit.  I truely believe we need to name these dealers, we need to where ever we can publize these true stories.

In your case with your friend I would take every action available, huge pressure on the dealer, pressure on HD Customer service & I would take it to your Bureau of Automotive Repair, this just verges on complete incompentence and criminal intent.

We are all to complacent about accepting this, just like your friend.  This is what the dealers count on, we will pay the bill & go away.

Not to steal the thread but I had a similiar experience recently & I think I posted about it.  I took my 06 CVO Ultra in to Scottsdale Harley Davidson in Scottsdale AZ.  I had a bad stator, I have a 7 yr extended warranty, I had already checked the stator & one of the phases only put out 6vac max.  I took it in & told them I had a charging problem.

I fought with them for an entire week, they said no problem it charges fine, you just turn on too many accessories at one time.  Now bear in mind this is a 50 amp system, the CVO came with heated grips, heated seat and such.  Their answer was it stops charging because there is too much load.

So I asked them how they calculated too much load, well by turning everything on and it stopped charging, thus too much load on the system.

I offered to teach them how to calculate loads and current against what the alternator was rated at.  Well you can guess there answer, our techs know how to do that.

At least 10 times I asked them if they performed the simple stator test, nope never, not required because it was charging when there wasn't too much load.

However they wanted despertly to open up the cam chest becasue of the noise (Gear Drive Cams) and fix the problems in there.  Money vs Warranty and stupidity, I suspect they thought it was the old cam chain tensioners.

I went & picked the bike up, no work done, and took it 125 miles to Steve at GMR, well you know the rest of the story.  New Stator & regulator, under warranty, and replaced with a Cycle Electric Stator, quick, easy, professional.

I complained bitterly to Scottsdale HD but they were in the middle of the sale of the business & no one cared.

Oh, sorry... rant off.

PUBLISH THE DEALERS THAT DO POOR WORK, we can impact their business!

[cvobiker]

Don... do you think that a copy of this letter and maybe a few other well phrased lines , to Mother Harley's customer service dep' at HQ would help at least get this gentleman's money back?  It really saddens me that they would treat him with such disregard.  

Good suggestion !!  or at best, wait a couple more weeks so more of us can vent on topic and then send everyone at the dealership a link to this thread. That dealer is worthless and anyone that would shop or buy from them would be fooled for sure.  They owe this gentleman all the labor money spent for mis-diagnosing his problems and TwoLane a $100 shop fee for getting it right..   or maybe they should offer TwoLand a Job    

[hogasm]

Don you trying to get me riled up about the NAPPY HAIRED PIECE OF chit so called service writer at BAYSIDE

[Twolanerider]

Spoke with my friend on the phone an hour ago.  He was so happy to have the bike fixed he's riding today no place in particular.  Said he'd smelled rain but missed and wouldn't have cared anyway.  Out just because he can.  Says he's calling Harley customer service on Monday to start whatever rolling of the ball might begin. 

[Unbalanced]

Don,

I hope he paid with a credit card and will dispute the charges based on the repair that you documented for him.    Also who is the dealership others might want to know to Steer Way clear of this place.

[dlaws01]

You titled this thread as "A simply unbelievable service episode". I was expecting to read that the H-D service department treated their customer with respect and diagnosed the problem through sound troubleshooting, made the repair correctly the first time and only charged him what it should have cost.  I think you should have left the "un" off of unbelievable and then I would have agreed.

[grc]

You titled this thread as "A simply unbelievable service episode". I was expecting to read that the H-D service department treated their customer with respect and diagnosed the problem through sound troubleshooting, made the repair correctly the first time and only charged him what it should have cost.  I think you should have left the "un" off of unbelievable and then I would have agreed.

 

Sadly, you have hit the nail squarely on the head.  The norm seems to be lousy service; the only time Harley service is noteworthy seems to be the rare times when one of the shops actually gets it right the first time.


Jerry

[Twolanerider]

Don,

I hope he paid with a credit card and will dispute the charges based on the repair that you documented for him.    Also who is the dealership others might want to know to Steer Way clear of this place.

He did pay with a credit card.  And that is one of the avenues he is going to pursue.  I was asked not to specifically name the shop he dealt with until he finds out whatever he might from HD.  Since it's his deal and not mine I'll go along.  I don't necessarily agree but I'll go along. 

[HogBreath]

This sort of service I find to be common with most businesses, not just HD. If you don't think so, think about your past experiences with the medical proffession (typically the most well educated and trained professionals out there). Diagnosing a problem can sometimes be tough..It takes a certain sort of mind to be good at it. Anybody can change parts. Not trying to take the dealer's side here...quite the opposite. He has to use people. People mess up. Thing is, he should take responsibility for mis-diagnosing the problem and at a bare minimum credit the costs of the parts that were wrongly used. Asking for a 100% refund isn't totally unreasonable either, but, good luck with that.

Recently the sound on the Zumo on my 2011 went nuts. Nothing but static blowing through the sound system. It was terrible to hear. Sometimes, the sound works fine. So, I turned the volume to zero. Loaded the bike on a trailer and dropped it off at the dealership, explaining the situation on the Zumo and the other items that needed attention. I asked for a brand new Zumo. About 2 hours later, they call and the bike is ready..Wow..that was fast. I go back the next day to retrieve the bike..trailer in tow. When I ask what they find with the Zumo...the inform me they turned the volume up.  Makes a guy want to show his azz. I simply chuckled. Checked it..the sound was fine.  . I figue down the road, it'll go nuts again. Just after the warranty expires. And you know who will be paying for a new one...

[Unbalanced]

He did pay with a credit card.  And that is one of the avenues he is going to pursue.  I was asked not to specifically name the shop he dealt with until he finds out whatever he might from HD.  Since it's his deal and not mine I'll go along.  I don't necessarily agree but I'll go along. 

Don,

No problems with that, it was just a hope we might steer some unsuspecting person away to avoid another episode of the same.   Hope it works out for him as this is really a travesty all the way around.

[Jerry/MD]

It never ceases to amaze me how supposed 'service experts' don't pay a lick of attention to the symptons they are given. Truly unbelievable. 

BTW Twolanerider...nice job diagnosing and fixing what was an obvious electrical problem.

[murphy]

Sorry, I totally disagree with the title of the thread... Unfortunately it is 100% believable.

[porthole]

It never ceases to amaze me how supposed 'service experts' don't pay a lick of attention to the symptons they are given. Truly unbelievable.  

BTW Twolanerider...nice job diagnosing and fixing what was an obvious electrical problem.

Funny. I just had a problem with my truck, HVAC blower went out. On vacation pulling an 18K pound trailer with two Golden Retrievers who were not pleased with the lack of AC.
Did some checking and found the blower relay was real hot. Thinking it was bad I swapped it with an unused relay (DEF heater), no help.

Took 4 Ford dealers to find one that was willing to help "travelers" 600+ miles from home, half way through a 2 week trip.

My point, the Dealer that fixed it took my preliminary testing and passed it on. I needed a blower motor but the first line on the service order was the tech confirming the customer's find.
Sometimes they really do listen.

[Twolanerider]

Don,

No problems with that, it was just a hope we might steer some unsuspecting person away to avoid another episode of the same.   Hope it works out for him as this is really a travesty all the way around.

Hopefully someone won't have to be totaly unsuspecting.  Enough of a description in the first post to narrow the options down.  It's still just (another) terrible example of what's too often done.

[ultrafxr]

Hopefully someone won't have to be totaly unsuspecting.  Enough of a description in the first post to narrow the options down.  It's still just (another) terrible example of what's too often done.

Let the guessing begin.  Hmmm, could it be the dealer who owns multiple H-D shops and multiple automobile dealerships whose last name is the same as the well known (now deceased) advice columnist?

[grandpadoc]

Let the guessing begin.  Hmmm, could it be the dealer who owns multiple H-D shops and multiple automobile dealerships whose last name is the same as the well known (now deceased) advice columnist?

...and sounds like ??

[Twolanerider]

Got a call a few minutes ago; he'd had another "breakdown."  Could tell by tone of voice a little chain yanking was going on though.  On the way last night "riding home from bingo" (god I hope that's a euphemism) he had a flat tire.  Not a big deal though.  Plugged and portable compressor and he was home only a little later than expected. 

From what he's said before this isn't a terribly uncommon thing.  Some of the small roads in the area are apparently used by lumber or logging companies regularly and their debris is hard on tires.

[Midnight Rider]

This sort of service I find to be common with most businesses, not just HD. If you don't think so, think about your past experiences with the medical proffession (typically the most well educated and trained professionals out there). Diagnosing a problem can sometimes be tough..It takes a certain sort of mind to be good at it. Anybody can change parts. Not trying to take the dealer's side here...quite the opposite. He has to use people. People mess up. Thing is, he should take responsibility for mis-diagnosing the problem and at a bare minimum credit the costs of the parts that were wrongly used. Asking for a 100% refund isn't totally unreasonable either, but, good luck with that.

Recently the sound on the Zumo on my 2011 went nuts. Nothing but static blowing through the sound system. It was terrible to hear. Sometimes, the sound works fine. So, I turned the volume to zero. Loaded the bike on a trailer and dropped it off at the dealership, explaining the situation on the Zumo and the other items that needed attention. I asked for a brand new Zumo. About 2 hours later, they call and the bike is ready..Wow..that was fast. I go back the next day to retrieve the bike..trailer in tow. When I ask what they find with the Zumo...the inform me they turned the volume up.  Makes a guy want to show his azz. I simply chuckled. Checked it..the sound was fine.  . I figue down the road, it'll go nuts again. Just after the warranty expires. And you know who will be paying for a new one...

Ken...don't waste your time with the dealer on this, unless it's the NIM.  Mine had the NIM problem, so I had the dealer replace that after explaining to them how it worked and what it was doing to let them know it was NOT working as designed.  They replaced it.  However, the Roadtech started doing something similar to what yours did a month or so later.  The dealer would have sent it to Garmin for me, but it would just have delayed the process.  I called Garmin myself and got the unit replaced...they won't give you a "new" one in the box, but a "New" refurbished one.  Took about a week for the exchange.  The Garmin tech support will just make sure you've got the latest firmware update in the unit (I did) while on the phone with them, then they'll make it right.  Mine was doing the static thing, plus it would emit this ear piercing tone from time to time.  It's all Gee-Hawing together now...

[HogBreath]

That's my next plan of attack Terry. But for now, it seems to be working.

[spada84]

Ken...don't waste your time with the dealer on this, unless it's the NIM.  Mine had the NIM problem, so I had the dealer replace that after explaining to them how it worked and what it was doing to let them know it was NOT working as designed.  They replaced it.  However, the Roadtech started doing something similar to what yours did a month or so later.  The dealer would have sent it to Garmin for me, but it would just have delayed the process.  I called Garmin myself and got the unit replaced...they won't give you a "new" one in the box, but a "New" refurbished one.  Took about a week for the exchange.  The Garmin tech support will just make sure you've got the latest firmware update in the unit (I did) while on the phone with them, then they'll make it right.  Mine was doing the static thing, plus it would emit this ear piercing tone from time to time.  It's all Gee-Hawing together now...

I did a Zumo exchange with Garmin.  Explained to them that I was leaving on a trip.  I Next Day Aired the failed unit to them.  They FedEx Next Day sent the new unit to the hotel where I was staying.  Good customer service from Garmin.

[lilcoot]

Gotta say, Don, guys like you and Jerry are worth your weights in gold (if obesity isn't and issue ).  Your friend is lucky to have you around in a "consultant" capacity.  Most of us , especially HD virgins like myself, are at the mercy of incompetent and unethical dealerships and trial and error.

You could make a career "consulting" misdiagnoses by HD.  You'd be busier than a one legged man in a butt kicking contest, tho.

Dan

[Twolanerider]

Gotta say, Don, guys like you and Jerry are worth your weights in gold (if obesity isn't and issue ).  Your friend is lucky to have you around in a "consultant" capacity.  Most of us , especially HD virgins like myself, are at the mercy of incompetent and unethical dealerships and trial and error.

You could make a career "consulting" misdiagnoses by HD.  You'd be busier than a one legged man in a butt kicking contest, tho.

Dan

I'm as out of my depth as any other rider a lot of the time Dan.  This just happened to be a simple one that the simply never actually looked for. 

It's even easy enough to guess what likely happened.  Some kid out of UTI or MMI or NoRealExpAmI hooked the bike up to digital technician and expected to be told what the problem was.  Then he wasn't.  Then he didn't know what to do. 

After that it was either bad wild assed guesses based on good intent or bad wild assed guesses based on revenue generation.  Either way with bad wild assed guesses as the foundation good things aren't going to happen. 

I'm a little surprised there wasn't low voltage codes at least historically.  But checked and there weren't.  Still just sad they didn't/wouldn't/didn't-know-how to actually look for a problem based on its behavior.

[bubtrauma]

Ya know this problem is not just in the HD service department. This kind of thing happens in the auto industry as well and we all know it. This is what I will do next time I go to the MC. I am going to get them to commit to What they will do if and when I drive away and the problem is not rectified. Will they take it back and try again and once it is found will I be reimbursed for there errors.

I think we need to ask more question of the "what if" kind. I think they will have a hard time answering that question. We need to hold them accountable for what they SAY they are going to do up front. We also know how TUFF to diagnose electrical problems and that they can run up a labour bill for a sometimes very inexpensive part.

eg. Mr. Service writer, what are you going to do if when I drive away and the problem still exists. If and when you then you find the problem what cost will there be?

I think you will see these faces from the Service writer.  


We need to trap them into a REAL Service commitment.
GOOD thread

Bub

[North Georgia Hawg]

Reading this thread, I am even more convinced of my reasoning to NEVER take my bike into the dealer unless it's for a recall or something that's CLEARLY a warranty issue. I can do the service better and cheaper myself.

I recently replaced the VSS on the Honey Badger on my own dime to get the speedo working properly again, instead of taking it to the dealer for what would surely have been a warranty replacement. I don't want any more service records about my bike in the MoCo's system than is absolutely necessary...

[Dash Riprock]

Let the guessing begin.  Hmmm, could it be the dealer who owns multiple H-D shops and multiple automobile dealerships whose last name is the same as the well known (now deceased) advice columnist?

Yes...this sucks like a Toad.

[cvobiker]

. I don't want any more service records about my bike in the MoCo's system than is absolutely necessary...

Why?   

[North Georgia Hawg]

Why?   

Because any dealer can pull your entire service record. I believe that the more service records there are in the H-D system for a bike, there more excuses there are for the dealer to not do what they are supposed to do when it comes in again. Just my opinion... but I just don't trust dealers to always do the right thing...

Now, having said that, I think H-D of Cartersville is an excellent dealer, with a good service dept. I just had them replace the rear tire on the Honey badger, and they were able to do it the same day I called. Took them less than two hours, including the wash. That was nice!

[Phantom309]

Whatever happened with your buddy about this twolane? I hope he got his $ back. The more digging I do on this site just pisses me off more & more. Its amazing how much bullchit we all put up with to look & sound cool riding down the road..If my old GL 1800 looked & sounded like my RG I'd still have it.

[Twolanerider]

Whatever happened with your buddy about this twolane? I hope he got his $ back. The more digging I do on this site just pisses me off more & more. Its amazing how much bullchit we all put up with to look & sound cool riding down the road..If my old GL 1800 looked & sounded like my RG I'd still have it.

Last I heard any details was middle of last month.  Was told the dealership never even seriously entertained even a conversation.  He tried to get a chargeback on the credit card for that last service attempts arguing the work was either never done or done but never requested.  At that last conversation he said the cc company had issued a chargeback but that the episode was still considered "under review" so he didn't know for sure if he'd get to keep the amount that had been held when it was all over.

[cahdbiker]

Twolanerider, I just got finished reading all the responses to your post. I am hoping your friend took some notes with dates on them on each issue he had with this inept dealer.(and kept all his receipts and credit card statements ) If so he should first call customer service at mother HD with his issue, ask for his money back and make a note of the date and time of his phone call and request in writing a letter from them if they decline his request for a refund. In Ca. small claims court goes up to $5000.00 dollars. I am hoping for your friend's sake you have something similar wherever you are located. Follow the procedures for  small claims court, they usually require the plaintiff to request satisfaction from the defendant in writing prior to filing for a court date. At least here in Ventura County , Ca. they do. If they refuse a refund or fail to respond then he would request a small claims court hearing. You do not take an attorney this is person to person and the judge makes the decision. If he has his paperwork in order and a judge sympathetic to the inept performace of the dealer he will probably win. Then he will get a judgement against them and they have to pay him what they overcharged, or go to superior court. ( if he loses I would drop the issue at that point because superior court usually requires you hire an attorney and in this case moneywise it is not worth it). If the defendant, the HD dealer, fails to show up they automatically lose.( this may not be the same where you are and could have possibly changed since it has been a while since I have been to court) I am not an attorney or in any way associated with any company where I would be allowed to give advice, but I have personally been thru this ( not motorcycle related) and have been successful both times. If I was treated so poorly I would definetly give this a try. Most people break out in a sweat if they get a letter requiring them to pay up or go to court. If he sends a letter to his dealer to refund his money or see him in court make sure he sends a copy to mother HD and the Dealer with a return receipt so he can prove he sent them the letter if he ends up in court.  (I love the dealer's response " the engine is just shot because of the amount of miles") Sorry for the long response, but I just wanted to shed some light on what your friends options may be since I have been thru this myself. If he is not good at speaking in public the judge may let someone talk for him. Best of luck to your friend. CAHDBIKER

[Twolanerider]

He'd gone through the all the hoops he could with the dealer and told me he'd called HD itself also.  Reported the response as (and I'm paraphrasing), "it's a he-said-she-said thing sir so there's no way we can make the dealer refund money you've already paid for service."

The gent we're talking about is a retired lawyer so he'll know the ins and outs in his jurisdiction.  If the defendant truly doesn't give a chit small claims court is a limited excercise though.  At least it is in my state and his.  You can get a judgement, and the business may or may not care about having the judgement on record, but there is no enforcement mechanism.  So if the dealer would choose to say "piss off" there's nothing to be done about it.  Unfortunately his first/best option is likely the credit card chargeback.

[cahdbiker]

Twolandrider since your friend is a retired lawyer he knows a lot more then me, so I think the credit card chargeback seems like the quickest remedy. I just wanted to chime in since I had some experience in Ca. small claims and after  about 6 times to court they put a wage garnishment on the guy that owed me the money.  It was funny, because as soon as he knew he was screwed he wanted to be all nice about it, before he was a real  jerk. After they garnished his wages (I knew he wouldn't quit because he had a real good job) it took about a month to get the first payment since it goes to the Sheriff and then when the check clears they send you the money. I had my 2 grand back in about 10 weeks. I was just hoping your friend could get some satisfaction directly from the Harley Dealer.If something like that happened to me with the HD dealer I would try and work it out like gentleman and if they gave me any crap they would be seeing me in small claims court. My local dealer is treats me pretty good and they seem to want to make people happy so I don't think it would ever come to that which a good thing.  I hope your friend lets go of it and just enoys his bike. Take care. CAHDBIKER

He'd gone through the all the hoops he could with the dealer and told me he'd called HD itself also.  Reported the response as (and I'm paraphrasing), "it's a he-said-she-said thing sir so there's no way we can make the dealer refund money you've already paid for service."

The gent we're talking about is a retired lawyer so he'll know the ins and outs in his jurisdiction.  If the defendant truly doesn't give a chit small claims court is a limited excercise though.  At least it is in my state and his.  You can get a judgement, and the business may or may not care about having the judgement on record, but there is no enforcement mechanism.  So if the dealer would choose to say "piss off" there's nothing to be done about it.  Unfortunately his first/best option is likely the credit card chargeback.

[Twolanerider]

Twolandrider since your friend is a retired lawyer he knows a lot more then me, so I think the credit card chargeback seems like the quickest remedy. I just wanted to chime in since I had some experience in Ca. small claims and after  about 6 times to court they put a wage garnishment on the guy that owed me the money.  It was funny, because as soon as he knew he was screwed he wanted to be all nice about it, before he was a real  jerk. After they garnished his wages (I knew he wouldn't quit because he had a real good job) it took about a month to get the first payment since it goes to the Sheriff and then when the check clears they send you the money. I had my 2 grand back in about 10 weeks. I was just hoping your friend could get some satisfaction directly from the Harley Dealer.If something like that happened to me with the HD dealer I would try and work it out like gentleman and if they gave me any crap they would be seeing me in small claims court. My local dealer is treats me pretty good and they seem to want to make people happy so I don't think it would ever come to that which a good thing.  I hope your friend lets go of it and just enoys his bike. Take care. CAHDBIKER

Wage garnishment is a sometimes helpful tool if you've got a judgement.  But you're screwed if the judgement is against someone self employed, a business or someone with other garnishments in line ahead of you.  Especially screwed if the target has child support being withheld.  By statute that comes out ahead of everything.  There's also a Title III (think that's right) limitation of no more than 25% of disposable income for all garnishments.  Less if someone is a head of household.

I've got a couple of prior rental tenants that went to the trouble of getting judgements against for back rents.  Applied garnishements through the local civil process office.  Both had child support being withheld and other garnishments pending.  They knew they were for all intents and purposes beyond the reach of judgement.  Almost makes a guy wish there were still debtors prisons.