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Author Topic: 2019 cvo sumping  (Read 32259 times)

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fastfreddy

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Re: 2019 cvo sumping
« Reply #120 on: February 10, 2019, 10:55:51 AM »

 if a sump is designed properly it should be flooded at its pickup...  :nixweiss:  and if sump area is under vacuum/pressure that the pump cant over come,   :nixweiss:  is this the cause  :nixweiss:   so if you vent crank case to atmosphere would this end the issue, sorry but im not the sharpest pencil in the pack just asking  :nixweiss: :nixweiss: :nixweiss:
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Tobias7000

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Re: 2019 cvo sumping
« Reply #121 on: February 10, 2019, 02:06:50 PM »

if a sump is designed properly it should be flooded at its pickup...  :nixweiss:  and if sump area is under vacuum/pressure that the pump cant over come,   :nixweiss:  is this the cause  :nixweiss:   so if you vent crank case to atmosphere would this end the issue, sorry but im not the sharpest pencil in the pack just asking  :nixweiss: :nixweiss: :nixweiss:
I’ve heard running with the dipstick lose improves venting and significantly reduces chances to sump.  Four articles in a series in American Iron magazine explored this. I’ll have to look up which months these were published if anyone’s interested.  Anyone tried this?


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grc

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Re: 2019 cvo sumping
« Reply #122 on: February 10, 2019, 04:59:44 PM »

I’ve heard running with the dipstick lose improves venting and significantly reduces chances to sump.  Four articles in a series in American Iron magazine explored this. I’ll have to look up which months these were published if anyone’s interested.  Anyone tried this?


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The only thing that will do is vent the oil pan, not the crankcase.  The crankcase is already vented through the standard breather system.  At this point in time I've seen nothing that indicates the problem is caused by a pressure build-up in the crankcase or the oil pan.  A pressure build-up in the crankcase wouldn't cause sumping, it would actually help make the oil flow to the scavenge side of the pump.  The thing that did change for the M8 is the design of the engine cases and the location of the oil pickup hole in the sump, and that is where I believe the problem was created.

JMHO - Jerry
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cmashark

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Re: 2019 cvo sumping
« Reply #123 on: February 12, 2019, 01:53:59 AM »

The only thing that will do is vent the oil pan, not the crankcase.  The crankcase is already vented through the standard breather system.  At this point in time I've seen nothing that indicates the problem is caused by a pressure build-up in the crankcase or the oil pan.  A pressure build-up in the crankcase wouldn't cause sumping, it would actually help make the oil flow to the scavenge side of the pump.  The thing that did change for the M8 is the design of the engine cases and the location of the oil pickup hole in the sump, and that is where I believe the problem was created.

JMHO - Jerry

Jerry,
There is a vent between the crankcase and the oil tank. If my memory serves me well, its  a lot larger than the 2 going to the air cleaner.  If I had a sumper, I would be willing to try it.  Star Racing seems to believe the sumping issue stems from ring seal. Seems like the guys offering these 124 an128 kits aren’t seeing the sumping on their builds.... or at least the owners are being extremely quiet.

Chris
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Tobias7000

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Re: 2019 cvo sumping
« Reply #124 on: February 13, 2019, 11:39:12 PM »

A quick teaser on the articles I mentioned previously.  See the attached image.
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Heatwave

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Re: 2019 cvo sumping
« Reply #125 on: February 14, 2019, 06:44:04 AM »

Is there a link to the full article?
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Tobias7000

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Re: 2019 cvo sumping
« Reply #126 on: February 15, 2019, 05:11:41 AM »

Is there a link to the full article?

No link I know of.  I have a paid electronic subscription through my iPad.  It’s not that expensive and you can purchase back issues.  You want issues 365 through 368 to get the full analysis of this Sumping situation.  A very well written set of articles IMHO.

https://www.aimag.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/subscription/AIM.html

Once you subscribe you download the ZINIO app and you can get your digital issues delivered that way. 

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DCFIREMANN

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Re: 2019 cvo sumping
« Reply #127 on: February 27, 2019, 03:05:28 AM »

Well after reading this thread I am still on the fence. I have a Mako sitting at the Dealership waiting on me to pick it up. After reading all of this I'm not so sure now. I am also worried about the Financial well being of the Motor Company. They are in trouble and I think the release of the Live Wire might be the nail in the coffin. I absolutely love the color and the ride of the new bike and I was going to do the S&S 124 kit after I got 1000 miles on the motor. Decisions Decisions Decisions!!!!

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THE DAWG
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FLSTFI Dave

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Re: 2019 cvo sumping
« Reply #128 on: February 27, 2019, 08:27:30 PM »

Well after reading this thread I am still on the fence. I have a Mako sitting at the Dealership waiting on me to pick it up. After reading all of this I'm not so sure now. I am also worried about the Financial well being of the Motor Company. They are in trouble and I think the release of the Live Wire might be the nail in the coffin. I absolutely love the color and the ride of the new bike and I was going to do the S&S 124 kit after I got 1000 miles on the motor. Decisions Decisions Decisions!!!!

Be Safe

THE DAWG

Im on my 3rd CVO M8.  The 17 CVO Street Glide I put 21500 miles on trouble free, the 18 CVO road glide I put 24750 trouble free milers on and now the 19 CVO Road Glide.

The 117 is stronger than the 114, much stronger than 3" would let you believe.  It has to do with a better cam.

Can it sump, yes they can.  My 18 might have once as it lost power, slowed down and cruised for a bit, and all was normal.  I am hoping the new pump, back plate and seal fixes the sumping issue. 

I am going to ride this one a year then most likely build the motor.  If it sumps, which I do not think it will, T-man has one fix for it and S&S has a different fix.

I like the feel of the M8 better than the TC.  Power comes on earlier, and smoother.  I still have two TC bikes.
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doitda

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Re: 2019 cvo sumping
« Reply #129 on: February 27, 2019, 09:11:43 PM »

Im on my 3rd CVO M8.  The 17 CVO Street Glide I put 21500 miles on trouble free, the 18 CVO road glide I put 24750 trouble free milers on and now the 19 CVO Road Glide.

The 117 is stronger than the 114, much stronger than 3" would let you believe.  It has to do with a better cam.

Can it sump, yes they can.  My 18 might have once as it lost power, slowed down and cruised for a bit, and all was normal.  I am hoping the new pump, back plate and seal fixes the sumping issue. 

I am going to ride this one a year then most likely build the motor.  If it sumps, which I do not think it will, T-man has one fix for it and S&S has a different fix.

I like the feel of the M8 better than the TC.  Power comes on earlier, and smoother.  I still have two TC bikes.

"the new pump, back plate and seal"
Just getting up to speed after purchasing a '19 CVO SG last week. Are those thing you added, or the changes to the new '19 year model engines?


Thanks,
Chris
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fastfreddy

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Re: 2019 cvo sumping
« Reply #130 on: February 27, 2019, 10:09:24 PM »

"the new pump, back plate and seal"
Just getting up to speed after purchasing a '19 CVO SG last week. Are those thing you added, or the changes to the new '19 year model engines?                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                that is a change HD has done to 'fix' the sump issue


Thanks,
Chris
« Last Edit: February 27, 2019, 10:13:48 PM by fastfreddy »
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doitda

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Re: 2019 cvo sumping
« Reply #131 on: February 27, 2019, 10:39:41 PM »

Roger that, thanks for the info.
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DCFIREMANN

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Re: 2019 cvo sumping
« Reply #132 on: February 28, 2019, 08:41:53 AM »

Dave thank for your input. After much thought and a lot of research I am going to take delivery of the bike. I am also going to leave it stock for a few months and most likely won't put very many miles on it. After I break 1K I am going to pull the motor apart and do a mild build with S&S parts. I might even take it to 124 or 131 CI. I liked the Road Glide when I rode it but I like the protection from the elements better on my Limited. Looking forward to finally buying an M8.

Be Safe

THE DAWG
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cvo 5 09 FLHTCUSE4 Red/Marron sold
cvo 6 12 FLHTCUSE Blue Saphire/Stardust Silver AKA Saphire
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joe98

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Re: 2019 cvo sumping
« Reply #133 on: February 28, 2019, 12:55:36 PM »

Dave thank for your input. After much thought and a lot of research I am going to take delivery of the bike. I am also going to leave it stock for a few months and most likely won't put very many miles on it. After I break 1K I am going to pull the motor apart and do a mild build with S&S parts. I might even take it to 124 or 131 CI. I liked the Road Glide when I rode it but I like the protection from the elements better on my Limited. Looking forward to finally buying an M8.

Be Safe

THE DAWG
Good for you.... congrats on the new bike.  Must say they’re very sharp looking bikes !
  As far as sumping goes.... ride it , when it fails;  warranty.  Then build a motor to your liking.  Life’s too short.   Just my 2 cents...

Joe
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Re: 2019 cvo sumping
« Reply #134 on: February 28, 2019, 08:42:12 PM »

Dave thank for your input. After much thought and a lot of research I am going to take delivery of the bike. I am also going to leave it stock for a few months and most likely won't put very many miles on it. After I break 1K I am going to pull the motor apart and do a mild build with S&S parts. I might even take it to 124 or 131 CI. I liked the Road Glide when I rode it but I like the protection from the elements better on my Limited. Looking forward to finally buying an M8.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

I like the Handling both high speed and parking lot speed of the Road Glide much better than the bat wing.  That said your are correct, the Limited offers much more protection from the elements.  Now my CVO Road Glide Ultra I had for two year, protection from the elements was close to a limited, but still not quite as good.  That said I have done many 1000 mile days on a CVO Road Glide.  Finding the right windshield is a big help.

I like your plan with the engine.  I'm gathering parts now.  However I will wait until winter to go into the motor.  I want at least one 6000 mile trip on the bike before I go into it.  It will most likely be a 128, or a Suburban Speed 130, which will be released soon.  Of course I expect Fuel moto to follow suit shortly after.  I am wanting to see the kits offer a little more compression than they are right now.
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