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[CVO WG3]

Saw a FXDWG3, blue, 14000 miles with a Jim's 120" engine sell on eBay recently for $14,900.  The guy selling it did a horrible job of marketing the bike, BUT...   sheesh!

Here's a link...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Harley-Davidson-Dyna-FXR-2002-Harley-Davidson-Wide-Glide-FXDWG3-FXDWG-120CIJIMS_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ49993QQitemZ4634536022QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

[SPIDERMAN]

CVO WG3  

             Don't get upset Dude,  The value in our CVO bikes is having them in original condition, matching numbers etc etc While the bike in your post looked like a CVO, it no longer was with the Jim's motor. All it was - - - - Just another used Harley.  

Be cool Dude,  8-) you're bike's still worth some $$$$$$$

[DCFIREMANN]

I actually talked to the guy. His family owned the dealership. He also sold the original motor. I was going to buy it but without the original motor it wasn't woth the CVO price. The Jims motor only had 250 miles. It was still a good deal for the price. BTW it only had one bid.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[SPIDERMAN]

I actually talked to the guy. His family owned the dealership. He also sold the original motor. I was going to buy it but without the original motor it wasn't woth the CVO price. The Jims motor only had 250 miles. It was still a good deal for the price. BTW it only had one bid.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

Whoever bought this bike got themselves a great deal no doubt. Had they paid CVO price it wouldn't have been. Were it me, I'd be tracking down the original motor to have for the day when I wanted to sell or trade, but that's just me. The whole point here though is that you can't look at a CVO bike that has been bastardized and compare it to an original CVO or one in which the owner has all the stock parts. I think folks like Hubbard are smart. If you're going to go apechit modifying a bike you're way ahead of the curve to start with a standard production model. Hubbard's ride is probably worth considerably more than it was when he bought it. Had he taken a CVO EG and done what he's done, it would be worth less. The guy I mentioned on a post one time with the 150/150 motored SERG in my town sold his original 95" CVO motor and even though he's got 30 grand beyond base price tied up in the bike, the value of the vehicle as a CVO is shot. And that's the whole point. What makes our bikes worth what they are is the unique parts, paint and VIN numbers to prove they are indeed Factory CVO vehicles. IMO

[altugo]

Well said Spider.The reason I bought my cvo fatboy was that it comes pre packed pretty well in terms of acessories and performance upgrades and is indeed a factory custom.Having the bike now for a while my decision is proved right since the bike looks much better than a lot of aftermarket customs and still has the reliability of a Harley.Harley Davidsons have been and will be collectibles and what else would go up in the value if a limited edition cvo wouldnt?Keeping it original and as clean as possible is the main issue for the coming years.Since I deal in antiques a little as a side job my past experience showed me that what ever is selling for mega bucks today are the expensive and hard to find products of their day.I think CVOs are a pretty good match for that kinda description today.So dont worry keep your original parts handy if you decide go with mods.At the end of the day they might be antiques for the future but they are hell of a fun ride today.So relax and enjoy since youre one of the lucky few. [smiley=drink.gif]

[nidan]

I checked the web in the last week , most are going for 17-20K .

While I went to a 95" I stayed with all HD parts except the cam , and kept all the stock parts.  Since the later "small" twinkies are 95's with SE heads  I don't think it will negatively effect the value ,especially if they see the dyno.

I have no intention of ever selling it , although I do plan on a bagger down the road.

[RedFXR2]

While I went to a 95" [highlight]I stayed with all HD parts except the cam , and kept all the stock parts.  [/highlight]Since the later "small" twinkies are 95's with SE heads  I don't think it will negatively effect the value ,especially if they see the dyno.

For about two years I resisted the urge to "upgrade" my FXR2, for the sake of keeping it a stock classic.  Finally, I decided that if I was always justifying it to myself, then it was keeping me from enjoying the bike as much as I could otherwise, so I did my makeover, using HD stuff as much as possible, thinking about what the CVO would have done back then if the theme in York involved SE parts.  I think that's the key.  I could have used parts from S&S, Edelbrock, Crane, etc. and maybe even gotten better performance results, but it wouldn't have looked "right" in my eyes, as a CVO bike.

I would have to agree with Nidan, in that I don't think our bikes have been compromised in value by what we've done.  Any issues like that will be far outweighed by the benefits of the mods.  I also would add that I have no intention of selling it, anyway, so the whole question is moot.

IMO, the one thing that would truly downgrade a CVO bike would be to re-paint it.  I've seen it done, and I know that, by VIN, it's still a CVO ride, but to me, a re-painted CVO becomes another custom HD, for good or bad.

[nidan]

I agree on the paint.  I may at some point remove the body work and get replacements with custom paint , and preserve the original.  I have saved all the original pieces , manual etc. in case I ever get delusional enough to sell her.

[Buffy]

[size=20]On the other side of the fence, there is a 2001 WG2 with 3K miles and everything stock and the selling price is $30,000  I mean selling price too.  The guy said he wouldn't sell it for a penny less than that.[/size][/color]

[SEULTRA]

[size=20]On the other side of the fence, there is a 2001 WG2 with 3K miles and everything stock and the selling price is $30,000  I mean selling price too.  The guy said he wouldn't sell it for a penny less than that.[/size][/color]

All us old guys thank you for using 20 pitch font  [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif] [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

[SPIDERMAN]

All us old guys thank you for using 20 pitch font  [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif] [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

Me too and also I've been wonderin for a month now what Ronnie Dunn means in B & D's new hit " Believe " when he sings  " the words written in red "

[CVO WG3]

[size=20]On the other side of the fence, there is a 2001 WG2 with 3K miles and everything stock and the selling price is $30,000  I mean selling price too.  The guy said he wouldn't sell it for a penny less than that.[/size][/color]

And he's absolutely right:  he won't sell it!

[LQQKE3]

 i would have to say that the prices are plummeting and are going fast. seems it doent matter if its one with low miles or high miles. its not a sellers market its a buyers. so buy them while they are dirt cheep becouse maybe just maybe it will be worth something.

[cvo guy]

i agree with you LQQKE3 the bottom has dropped--check this out on ebay--it looks to be a harley dealer with a 2001 FXDWG2 with a ending bid of $8600.00 with only 2061 miles. it didn't meet reserve but that shows that people are not going to bid that much anymore. that about the 6th fxdwg2/3 that didn't go over $13,000

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=330022640097&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=014
P.S. hope the link works.

[Fired00d]

Not to say this is a bad thing, but do you think that it having a 116ci S&S motor versus it still being stock (cases at least)? [smiley=nixweiss.gif] Description from ad below.

Vehicle Description  

 2001 HARLEY-DAVIDSON FXDWG2 (Custom shop Dyna Wide Glide) w/ 116in Twin cam S&S motor w/ White Bros E-Pipe Exhaust. Bike has 2061 miles. Custom red paint w/ 24k gold leaf striping, custom Lepera tan leather seat and backrest. Very limited production model. Always garaged. Excellent condition. One of a kind!  


 [smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 [smiley=fireman.gif]

[cvo guy]

i think that it might be part of the reason it didn't get that high but check these out

1. stock with 450 miles not one bid, started at $14,000
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=300023303548&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=020
2. miles 4743 only went to $12,209
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=330020668514&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=014
3. started at $12,500 no bids
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=280019257083&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=018
4. started $1000 only went to $9100
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=110020371358&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=001
5.started $1.00 high bid $12000 only 4000 miles
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=270013904623&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=017
6. ended at $10600 with 7100 miles
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=170014301212&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=007

i don't know it's looks like right now is not a good time to be selling a fxdwg2/3

[RJ749]

DWG2/3 Owners got hosed when the bike came decked out minus a SE motor upgrade.

I should have dumped mine a year ago, I haven't riden it since then anyway.

[LQQKE3]

 there was a bone stock 2002 blue one on ebay with only 1200 miles on it. it sold for 13500 :-?
the only reason is that these sellers are taking way less than they should,so the price of the bikes is going down with it. i bought mine because it looks great an it will hold its value. well it still looks great but its not worth no more than a standard wideglide or that a person wants to spend. [smiley=banana.gif] [smiley=jalapeno.gif]

[3hawgs]

Low retail is $12,525 on the FXDWG3 while high retail is $16,480. Sounds like the bike is a great buy for someone who wants the power. The Jims motor would cost about $8000 installed at the dealer. The market is very soft right now and looks like it will stay that way. I have tried selling my custom Deuce on E-Bay and just had some ridiculously low bids from people wanting to steal it. It also isn't helping that there are already dealers selling 07's below MSRP and not charging freight or setup. The market is very saturated right now and I don't forsee that changing anytime in the future.

John

[Ready2Rip]

I paid $17,500 for my Blue '02 FXDWG3 about 6 months ago, but it only had 10 miles on the bike.  The owner bought it as a collector bike, but he was in it around $26K.  I am about to install the GMR 98" kit, so I'll finally have some power to go with all that flashy chrome.  

As soon as I saw it, I knew this was the bike for me.  Absolutely no regrets!

[floridashowbike]

I am new to this site and own a Black WG3 show bike (pics to come). I don't think the retail prices are decreasing at all. I see them advertised all the time for 20 grand plus. I wouldn't sell mine for $30,000.00. Hold on to these collectors. By the way, the last four bike shows my bike has taken home 1st place trophies. People love em!

[floridashowbike]

When they go so cheap the seller must need the money. If I was a buyer I would sit back and wait, the deals are out there.

[WG3]

I am new to this site and own a Black WG3 show bike (pics to come). I don't think the retail prices are decreasing at all. I see them advertised all the time for 20 grand plus. I wouldn't sell mine for $30,000.00. Hold on to these collectors. By the way, the last four bike shows my bike has taken home 1st place trophies. People love em!

Advertising them for $20K+ is one thing...  SELLING it for $20K+ is another matter.  I love my bike and have no interest in selling it...  but clearly the market is saturated and prices have fallen dramatically.  

[pcarr1701]

Well, I purchased my '01 FXDWG2 from a dealer in Missouri with only 4,650 original miles on it for $16,500 and I was very pleased.  It had already had some work done to it.  New headlight, Corbin Ostrich seat, Spiked grips and front hub, mini-ape handlebars, V&H Big Radius pipes and had the motor done to a 95".  Bike runs and handles like a dream.  No problems whatsoever.

[RJ749]

Well, I purchased my '01 FXDWG2 from a dealer in Missouri with only 4,650 original miles on it for $16,500 and I was very pleased.  It had already had some work done to it.  New headlight, Corbin Ostrich seat, Spiked grips and front hub, mini-ape handlebars, V&H Big Radius pipes and had the motor done to a 95".  Bike runs and handles like a dream.  No problems whatsoever.

A big DWG welcome to the site PC.  Glad you found us.  Always liked the red g2's.

I had a 2 and sold it and got a black 3 and have enjoyed them both.  We don't buy them for the resale anyway.  It is a nice side benefit if they hold value, but let's face it the MoCo builds the chit out of these things anymore so they will never hold like the original low number builds did.

Besides, the DWG series didn't get a motor so they won't hold that much better than a stock bike that got $8,000.00 in adds in the short run.  In the long run a low mileage well maintained one may be a bit of an investment, but depriciating assets normally..........depreciate.

[skippy]

You got a good buy, I would not sell Dyna3 for less than 22.000 and was recently offered that much for her ...

[dailywaves]

Hi All -

New member here, I definitely like the theme!  Anyhow, I have been pondering this thought for some time as well.  There are a few comforting thoughts that have helped me through the endless payments...and the cold Wisconsin winters with it in the garage that has allowed me to not care.  I worked in the Engineering dept. of HD during the development of the FXDWG2/3 Switchblade - and this bike is BY FAR the most sought after model they have released yet.  In a lineup of hundreds of HD's - custom and standard - this one sticks out like a sore thumb above all.  I absolutely had to have the 2.  This bike has single handedly converted about 10 of my "cage-driving" friends to buy a HD.  Not to mention, I have been offered as much as 30K cash for it and had to swallow my tongue to hold back.  Everywhere I have taken this thing - it's the center of attention and a great ride too!  I know I'll never get rid of it, but if I ever had to - I am sure that it would go quickly and fair.  Anyone selling this bike on EBay for 14K doesn't realize what they have if its completely original - this bike is a first for HD in several areas for P&A and Production and will rise again!

One HD colleague coined the phrase "this bike is like a parade on wheels" and I definitely agree.



Safe Ridin' -  Jess

[bisounours]

Good morning dailywaves,

I send you the  from FRANCE.

It'll be nice for the others members if you present you in the thread "New Member Introduction"
with a pic of your bike 

Best regards

    Jacques

[RJ749]

Hi All -

New member here, I definitely like the theme! 

I worked in the Engineering dept. of HD during the development of the FXDWG2/3 Switchblade - and this bike is BY FAR the most sought after model they have released yet.  In a lineup of hundreds of HD's - custom and standard - this one sticks out like a sore thumb above all.  I absolutely had to have the 2.  This bike has single handedly converted about 10 of my "cage-driving" friends to buy a HD.  Not to mention, I have been offered as much as 30K cash for it and had to swallow my tongue to hold back.  Everywhere I have taken this thing - it's the center of attention and a great ride too!  I know I'll never get rid of it, but if I ever had to - I am sure that it would go quickly and fair.  Anyone selling this bike on EBay for 14K doesn't realize what they have if its completely original - this bike is a first for HD in several areas for P&A and Production and will rise again!
One HD colleague coined the phrase "this bike is like a parade on wheels" and I definitely agree.
Safe Ridin' -  Jess

Welcome Jess, great to have another member here that will surely have a wealth of HD knowledge.

What are you doing for work now?  Have you done any mods at all to the DWG2?  I had a 2 and now a 3, really like the entire theme of the bike, steering geometry on the 3 seems better to me for some reason.  Anyway, reading your post made me think of two things.  One, I'm glad to have my DWG3 and two Would you like to move to Washington?  I need a good salesman.

[Willie D]

One HD colleague coined the phrase "this bike is like a parade on wheels" and I definitely agree.

I think the sales brochure had it right, 'This bike looks FAST just sitting still' . . . I too owned a RED Switchblade.
after a trip to York in 2001 and seeing this beauty sitting all around the plant, I returned to my home dealer and said "I have to have one of those", he jst grinned, and said "I'll see what I can do" two months later he said 'Do you still want one of those RED bikes" . . . . ? the only change I made was to install a V&H Pro pipe. I rode this thing from Michigan to Sturgis and then decided that I needed something with more comfort if I was going to make these kinds of trips, I traded it for my Purple FLHRSEI which after 4 years and 70k I traded it for my current FLTRI.
Wish I had kept the dwg2, but at least I had the pleasure of owning one of the best looking bikes the the CVO folks put together.......!

Welcome to a site with a lot of COOL folks and lot's of knowledge.

Willie D. Davidson Jr.

[dailywaves]

Thanks for the warm reception all!  I think this will be a great forum to exchange ideas and discuss HD's - I am excited for this.

Good morning dailywaves,

I send you the  from FRANCE.

It'll be nice for the others members if you present you in the thread "New Member Introduction"
with a pic of your bike 

Best regards

    Jacques

Jacques - I will get my the New member Intro handled! Along with pics of my 2!!! 

Welcome Jess, great to have another member here that will surely have a wealth of HD knowledge.

What are you doing for work now?  Have you done any mods at all to the DWG2?  I had a 2 and now a 3, really like the entire theme of the bike, steering geometry on the 3 seems better to me for some reason.  Anyway, reading your post made me think of two things.  One, I'm glad to have my DWG3 and two Would you like to move to Washington?  I need a good salesman.

Work?  I work for an Engineering Consulting company called Synvent (www.synvent.com) - we place and train Engineers and Designers into jobs at HD (and other companies in Wisconsin) for R&D and Manufacturing of the bikes...basically a contract-to-hire scenario - so if you know of anyone looking for a career at HD in Milwaukee that is versed in 3D Modeling (Pro/ENGINEER), Assembly in Manufacturing or Engineering please have them send their resume to jesse.daily@synvent.com - I offer referral bonuses up to $1K and will assure anyone that working at HD is almost as fun as riding their bikes...it truly was a dream come true.  Make sure that they say you sent em!   I have placed over 30 people there in the past 3 years and have a great relationship with the team!

Mods?  Not many, unlike your 3 - the 2 was the only "Blade" that didn't come off the line with the 1550 conversion...  I wonder if that was a reason for the increased performance in steering.  I have ported it, put screaming eagle pipes on  it, trimmed out most of the stock black or aluminum cast surfaces with shiny HD chrome, short sissy bar, small luggage rack, etc...and I am KEEPING the fairing on the headlight     - I tried several conversions with it off preproduction, and I was unable to get something that "I" liked better.  All in all, its almost exactly the way it came off the floor - I am adamant about keeping only HD product on the bike to retain the long-term value I forsee with it.  There are a couple of dealerships around here that took the 2/3 off the floor, put it in a bubble and have yet to sell it...just sitting on the dream.  Just sitting away in a garage to be auctioned off some day.  Kinda sad in a way.

Move to Washington?  Born and raised in Idaho - I miss the West.  Flatland is very nice, but I miss the freedom of the mountain roads and healthy lifestyle - I would have to be a GREAT job, but I am not opposed to anything.  I absolutely think WA is one of the most beautiful states we have, esp. Belleview.

One HD colleague coined the phrase "this bike is like a parade on wheels" and I definitely agree.

I think the sales brochure had it right, 'This bike looks FAST just sitting still' . . . I too owned a RED Switchblade.
after a trip to York in 2001 and seeing this beauty sitting all around the plant, I returned to my home dealer and said "I have to have one of those", he jst grinned, and said "I'll see what I can do" two months later he said 'Do you still want one of those RED bikes" . . . . ? the only change I made was to install a V&H Pro pipe. I rode this thing from Michigan to Sturgis and then decided that I needed something with more comfort if I was going to make these kinds of trips, I traded it for my Purple FLHRSEI which after 4 years and 70k I traded it for my current FLTRI.
Wish I had kept the dwg2, but at least I had the pleasure of owning one of the best looking bikes the the CVO folks put together.......!

Welcome to a site with a lot of COOL folks and lot's of knowledge.

Willie D. Davidson Jr.

Hi Willie - what's in a name???    - I took the 2 on a trip to Tomahawk, I definitely agree this bike is not made for the long haul...unless some drastic changes are done (windshield, cruising pegs, etc.) - If I ever do make a trip to Sturgis, I am sure to rent or borrow another model...  CVO as they are, the best around...  Cool and classy -


Added Note: Dad is looking into getting the VRSCDX - anyone have good or bad experiences with this???



Safe Ridin' - Jess

[Hoist!]

Hey Jess, welcome aboard! Nice to get some inside insight to HD's thinking. Since you've been involved from the ground floor up, what's your take on HD putting out what's become apparent, an engine that's right on the verge of being a pile of molten aluminum? They can't be liking the situation they're in. Could they not have come up with a better solution than simply just leaning out engines that have been produced as overlean for over 10 years now? Just curious on an insider's take on this. Lot's of great people and ideas here. Take some of the back to the MoCo for us! Enjoy this great site! Hoist!

[Willie D]

Hi Willie - what's in a name???   

Guess I'm jst lucky   Was born William D. Davidson Jr. back in 42 and knew I would have to own a Harley someday. . . . for the 6 years I spent in the USN 59-65, it was 'Harley'. But now the local chapter have dubbed me Willie, so that's my story and I'm stickin' to it. I have been ridin' for over 40 yrs, worked and raced for American Honda for about 8 years (dirt) then got tooo old and road Observed Trials for a while, and then got into the road stuff........sure a lot easier on the body 

I am coming to West Bend in July for the BMWOA rally, and then do some riding in Door County before going home thru the UP.......sure is nice to have the Lake Express ferry now so we don't have to make the trip thru Chicago..

'Keep your Knees in the Breeze'

WD

[Hoist!]

Beautiful looking Glide Willie! We don't mistake you for Willie G. I don't think he'd have the nerve to show up here! But I'm sure he's lurking! We're the one's with the good ideas for him to claim as his own! But you never know. He just might show up someday and give us some credit for our years of loyalty and ideas! Hoist!

[Willie D]

  ya hoist, we jst $pend our hard earned ca$h.......and he enjoys it.

I used to run into him down at the races in Springfield (mile) and have a few pictures of us together.
saw him out in Billings,MT last year, but didn't talk to him. He never seems to remember who I am, Dah.

I really enjoy the new RG, Thanks.

WD

[Hoist!]

ya hoist, we jst $pend our hard earned ca$h.......and he enjoys it.

I used to run into him down at the races in Springfield (mile) and have a few pictures of us together.
saw him out in Billings,MT last year, but didn't talk to him. He never seems to remember who I am, Dah.

I really enjoy the new RG, Thanks.

WD

Funny stuff Willie. Maybe they'll send you his paycheck by mistake someday! Good luck with your new RG. It's gorgeous man! Got the 103 in it yet? Hoist!

[Willie D]

Got the 103 in it yet?

Nope, still the TC 88, I am going to leave it stock till the warranty is off, and then see what is going on.
I had a 2008 RG ordered, but decided to keep this one till the MoCo gets the 6sp and motor noise figured out.
too many folks are complaining about Heat and noise. The 6 sp would be nice, but from what I am hearing, it really isn't any good till 75mph, and anymore I don't run that fast, for too long. I like the 50 mpg and 200 mile cruising range.......guess I am gettin' old 
Did the 'ride loud n' proud' thing now I like the 'Quiet' scene.....LMAO

WD

[Hoist!]

Got the 103 in it yet?

Nope, still the TC 88, I am going to leave it stock till the warranty is off, and then see what is going on.
I had a 2008 RG ordered, but decided to keep this one till the MoCo gets the 6sp and motor noise figured out.
too many folks are complaining about Heat and noise. The 6 sp would be nice, but from what I am hearing, it really isn't any good till 75mph, and anymore I don't run that fast, for too long. I like the 50 mpg and 200 mile cruising range.......guess I am gettin' old 
Did the 'ride loud n' proud' thing now I like the 'Quiet' scene.....LMAO

WD

 I gotta tell ya, the 6-speed is great. I have no complaints about that (I even like the 5th gear whine!). Great for breaking a new motor in. You can still do 90-100 on break-in! My friend did the 103 kit on his '07 FLHX and it runs great. Good gas mileage is fine, but not at the expense of the "fun factor"! But you can do it relatively quietly. Can you spell "SPO's"! These are the best touring mufflers I've ever tried! Subtle hint here! Hoist!

[Willie D]

Can you spell "SPO's"! These are the best touring mufflers I've ever tried! Subtle hint here!

SPO ? not familar with these. I have SE touring mufflers in the RG w/stageI download & AC.
the bike has 14k on it now, and really am happy with it. After the SERK, I thought I might have to go with a big bore job, but so it is fine for what i do.

WD

[RJ749]

Jess, dailywaves, post some pics of the blade if you get the chance.

Thanks for the info and you are right, riding the west is great.  Not sure I know anyone for a job at the MoCo but you never know, the local college has a great design school, Western Washington University.

We'll watch for pics of that red bike

[Hoist!]

Can you spell "SPO's"! These are the best touring mufflers I've ever tried! Subtle hint here!

SPO ? not familar with these. I have SE touring mufflers in the RG w/stageI download & AC.
the bike has 14k on it now, and really am happy with it. After the SERK, I thought I might have to go with a big bore job, but so it is fine for what i do.

WD

I saw you said stock in your previous post Willie. That's why I suggested looking at S&S SPO mufflers. But it sounds like you're all set with Stage I. Nevermind! Hoist!

[nidan]

I lost quite a bit on mine , but am happy with my 103" FLHX .

I guess it will be another 2 years before I see a FLHXSE