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Author Topic: Dirty Oil No More  (Read 3271 times)

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cahdbiker

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Dirty Oil No More
« on: August 01, 2020, 03:25:35 AM »

Hi All, been a while since I posted anything. You all know that when you do a regular oil change that at least one quart of dirty oil remains in the engine and mixes with the new oil. ( when I had my EVO it was easy to purge out the dirty quart )  Since my 09 was new I was always irritated by how quickly the engine oil got dirty after a change. Recently I did the following. Got the engine hot about a 30 mile ride. Changed the oil and filter. Rode almost 100 miles. Changed the oil and filter again. Since then I have gone almost 1000 miles and the oil is looking clean, whereas before it would be starting to look a little dirty already. I used HD dino oil for this experiment because of the cost. Maybe this is overkill but I feel good about it. Best Regards CAHDBIKER.
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J.D.

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Re: Dirty Oil No More
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2020, 09:46:50 AM »

I change mine every 2k mainly for this reason.  The oil is still pretty clean, and oil changes are relatively cheap.

Aftermarket makes a device to purge that remaining oil out.
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Twolanerider

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Re: Dirty Oil No More
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2020, 11:27:13 AM »

[apology mode = on]
[sarcasm mode = on ]
[butt hurt intended = off ]
[begin entry = on ]



That leftover oil at changes is something I've worried about too.  I've tried a very large vacuum device that would screw on to the oil filter adapter.  Had to be careful because in the attempt to get all the oil one time actually sucked one of the cams out of a Twin Cam through the oil fill hole.  It gets the job done though.  Also use the same device, with different adapters of course, to get all the old air out of the tires at air change intervals.  Just have to be careful and not suck the tires inside out. They don't ride good with the tread on the inside (don't ask how I know).
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scotman623

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Re: Dirty Oil No More
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2020, 11:40:53 AM »

Above!!! I must try this method you speak of!!😂😂😂😂😂
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Homer 661

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Re: Dirty Oil No More
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2020, 12:13:14 PM »

You might be interested in one of these https://roguechopper.com/
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iski

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Re: Dirty Oil No More
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2020, 12:31:48 PM »

[apology mode = on]
[sarcasm mode = on ]
[butt hurt intended = off ]
[begin entry = on ]



That leftover oil at changes is something I've worried about too.  I've tried a very large vacuum device that would screw on to the oil filter adapter.  Had to be careful because in the attempt to get all the oil one time actually sucked one of the cams out of a Twin Cam through the oil fill hole.  It gets the job done though.  Also use the same device, with different adapters of course, to get all the old air out of the tires at air change intervals.  Just have to be careful and not suck the tires inside out. They don't ride good with the tread on the inside (don't ask how I know).

Ok I won't ask.
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J.D.

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Re: Dirty Oil No More
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2020, 12:37:16 PM »

All joking aside, I bought a car many years ago that was pretty much used for local, short commutes and the previous owner was, let's say, not diligent on maintenance.  First oil change the pan was clearly full of sludge.  I changed the oil and added a detergent additive, took the car for a good long interstate drive (couple hundred miles give/take), and changed the oil again.  It sure cleaned a lot of crap out.  With that said, it's more of a one time event than normal maintenance.
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TraumaSlave

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Re: Dirty Oil No More
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2020, 06:58:36 PM »

My last change, I started the motor for 3 seconds and let what drained out drain. Did this a couple times. No heat to the motor and residual still there to not run dry. Probably got about 1/2 a cup more out after initial drain.
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CVCVORG

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Re: Dirty Oil No More
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2020, 09:44:44 PM »

I own a Scavenger and it works well.

I typically need 1.5 extra quarts of oil to get all of dirty oil out.
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Twolanerider

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Re: Dirty Oil No More
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2020, 10:33:03 PM »

Here is an "all kidding aside" post for this thread.  For real.  Honest.

As anal as I am about regular maintenance schedules and keeping things current this particular issue has just never worried me.  Car or bike.  For me the various devices to do this are fixes/money spent for a problem that isn't a problem.

On all three bikes here right now if I've got any problem with residual oil it's exactly the opposite.  The Road King and FXR are both maybe a thousand miles past their last oil change.  The Road Glide maybe 1500.  On all three my only oil "issue" is that the oil is still clear enough I've got to hold the dipstick just right and in the right light just to see where the oil is on the stick.  I've even thought about paying more for Royal Purple or Redline just because either would make it easier to read the dipsticks!  Then, once again, I remembered I'm just not that anal retentive. 
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mark

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Re: Dirty Oil No More
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2020, 09:51:28 AM »

Has anyone changed their oil the traditional way (warm up engine, cut off, remove drain plug and filter), followed the oil change mileage interval (5,000), and ever had an engine failure/problem due to not completely draining every ounce of old oil out? 


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J.D.

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Re: Dirty Oil No More
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2020, 10:12:18 AM »

Not sure I've ever heard of anyone executing a study like that.

But I've never regretted holding an oil change interval schedule more frequently than recommended.
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iski

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Re: Dirty Oil No More
« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2020, 10:41:29 AM »

Has anyone changed their oil the traditional way (warm up engine, cut off, remove drain plug and filter), followed the oil change mileage interval (5,000), and ever had an engine failure/problem due to not completely draining every ounce of old oil out?

A good question.  A few ounces of dirty oil that remain in a motor after an oil change is not anything I have been concerned about.  Personally it ranks between greasing the muffler bearings & changing the blinker fluid.
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Twolanerider

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Re: Dirty Oil No More
« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2020, 11:12:47 AM »

Has anyone changed their oil the traditional way (warm up engine, cut off, remove drain plug and filter), followed the oil change mileage interval (5,000), and ever had an engine failure/problem due to not completely draining every ounce of old oil out?


Not unless something else happened.  Like it got very hot at some time and the oil started breaking down or contaminants were afoot.  Those few ounces of oil are a wonderful thing to worry about and to sell chimera for.  The gadgets really are solutions to spend money on for something that is not a problem.
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Twolanerider

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Re: Dirty Oil No More
« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2020, 11:14:47 AM »

A good question.  A few ounces of dirty oil that remain in a motor after an oil change is not anything I have been concerned about.  Personally it ranks between greasing the muffler bearings & changing the blinker fluid.

My muffler bearings are now sealed synthetic.  Lifetime bearings with no grease fittings.  My bikes are old enough my blinkers are still manual rather than hydraulic so they don't use blinder fluid.  It's really easier that way.
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J.D.

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Re: Dirty Oil No More
« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2020, 12:46:45 PM »

My Dyna only needs 2-1/2 quarts of oil with a filter.  Honestly this is no big deal and nobody should be questioned or ridiculed if they want to purge everything out.

Easiest way I could think of would be to do the oil change, let it run for awhile to get hot, drain the oil from the pan and whatever is in the filter, replace the 20-minute old filter and refill with new oil.  Even premium synthetic oil at $8/qt this only costs $20 extra.
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iski

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Re: Dirty Oil No More
« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2020, 02:42:27 PM »

My muffler bearings are now sealed synthetic.  Lifetime bearings with no grease fittings.  My bikes are old enough my blinkers are still manual rather than hydraulic so they don't use blinder fluid.  It's really easier that way.

Manual blinkers?  I bet you don't use laser alignment for the johnson bar.

You get 1.54 more HP & 2.1 more TQ in addition to .17 more mpg if you use sealed synthetic muffler bearings.  I just wrote that, you read it on the internet, so... it must be true.
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cahdbiker

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Re: Dirty Oil No More
« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2020, 03:47:56 PM »

A good question.  A few ounces of dirty oil that remain in a motor after an oil change is not anything I have been concerned about.  Personally it ranks between greasing the muffler bearings & changing the blinker fluid.

If any of you guys have watched the scavenger oil puck video you can see that at least 32 ounces of oil comes out dirty. When I had my evo I used to fill the tank with fresh oil and then run with filter off until fresh oil came out at least 28 to 32 ounces. Then put filter on and topped off tank. (as you all know oil routing is thru engine and then filter on evo so no worries about running dry). That being said I have to go change the throw-out bearings in my mirrors, and top off the freon in my tires. CAHDBIKER
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J.D.

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Re: Dirty Oil No More
« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2020, 03:51:42 PM »

I still believe changing oil at more frequent intervals is better for the engine and essentially addresses the root cause of the concern.  JMHO.
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grc

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Re: Dirty Oil No More
« Reply #19 on: August 02, 2020, 04:02:28 PM »

I still believe changing oil at more frequent intervals is better for the engine and essentially addresses the root cause of the concern.  JMHO.

Funny how as the automobile industry has extended change intervals from the old 3000 miles to 5000 to 7500 to the current oil life software based intervals that can be up to 20,000 miles, the engine longevity has also increased immensely.  I think way too many people give too much credit to oil changes, and not enough credit to all the improvements made in design, materials, and quality of the actual hardware.  BTW, the best, highest priced motor oil in the world, changed monthly, could not fix what ails Harley-Davidson's engines.  But if anyone feels excessive oil changing makes them sleep better at night, by all means don't let me rain on your parade.  In the overall scheme of things, people waste a lot more money and time on less productive activities.

Jerry
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Re: Dirty Oil No More
« Reply #20 on: August 02, 2020, 04:19:34 PM »

Agree on the autos.  The one remarkable difference is the Harleys see much higher temperatures than water cooled engines with thermostats.  In theory an air cooled engine will be much harder on oil.  But an oil analysis can confirm that.
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Twolanerider

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Re: Dirty Oil No More
« Reply #21 on: August 02, 2020, 04:30:39 PM »

Manual blinkers?  I bet you don't use laser alignment for the johnson bar.

You get 1.54 more HP & 2.1 more TQ in addition to .17 more mpg if you use sealed synthetic muffler bearings.  I just wrote that, you read it on the internet, so... it must be true.


The improved fuel usage is very true.  But only partly because of the sealed synthetic muffler bearings.  53% (approximately) comes from the lowered wind resistance that is the result of the now unnecessary grease fitting no longer sticking out in the breeze.
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iski

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Re: Dirty Oil No More
« Reply #22 on: August 02, 2020, 04:31:20 PM »

That being said I have to go change the throw-out bearings in my mirrors, and top off the freon in my tires. CAHDBIKER

This reminded me to rotate my valve stem caps.  Thx.
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iski

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Re: Dirty Oil No More
« Reply #23 on: August 02, 2020, 04:34:32 PM »


The improved fuel usage is very true.  But only partly because of the sealed synthetic muffler bearings.  53% (approximately) comes from the lowered wind resistance that is the result of the now unnecessary grease fitting no longer sticking out in the breeze.

Concur.

What is the wind speed velocity of an unladen swallow?
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Twolanerider

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Re: Dirty Oil No More
« Reply #24 on: August 02, 2020, 05:06:21 PM »

Concur.

What is the wind speed velocity of an unladen swallow?


Plaid or maroon?
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skratch

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Re: Dirty Oil No More
« Reply #25 on: August 02, 2020, 05:07:34 PM »


If any of you guys have watched the scavenger oil puck video you can see that at least 32 ounces of oil comes out dirty. When I had my evo I used to fill the tank with fresh oil and then run with filter off until fresh oil came out at least 28 to 32 ounces. Then put filter on and topped off tank. (as you all know oil routing is thru engine and then filter on evo so no worries about running dry). That being said I have to go change the throw-out bearings in my mirrors, and top off the freon in my tires


i have no problem with you using that system, it's your bike, your money, whatever makes you feel good is aok in my book. 

but, the only reason that 32oz 'comes out dirty' is that it only takes like an oz of dirty oil to dirty the other oil.  but it's all cosmetic.  it just looks dirty, it will provide plenty of protection for your engine.
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Twolanerider

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Re: Dirty Oil No More
« Reply #26 on: August 02, 2020, 05:19:47 PM »


If any of you guys have watched the scavenger oil puck video you can see that at least 32 ounces of oil comes out dirty. When I had my evo I used to fill the tank with fresh oil and then run with filter off until fresh oil came out at least 28 to 32 ounces. Then put filter on and topped off tank. (as you all know oil routing is thru engine and then filter on evo so no worries about running dry). That being said I have to go change the throw-out bearings in my mirrors, and top off the freon in my tires. CAHDBIKER



Gotta call BS on that one.  You could not sump something around 25% of total volume and still have the engine running.  The system would not allow it.  Seeing an overall mix that didn't look pristine?  Ah, maybe.  But you're talking ounces of remaining oil; not a quart.  That's why it's just no big deal.
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iski

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Re: Dirty Oil No More
« Reply #27 on: August 02, 2020, 05:26:52 PM »


Plaid or maroon?

Using flusher fill oil method it's  maroon.  Conventional method = Capistrano plaid.
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Re: Dirty Oil No More
« Reply #28 on: August 02, 2020, 07:42:54 PM »

If you follow correct procedure for an oil change, and if your oiling system is working correctly, you will only have somewhere between four and eight ounces of oil left in the sump.  If you really think you have 32 ounces of old oil remaining in the engine after an oil change, you really should get that POS to the shop right away 'cause something is far from copacetic.

If you have a Twin Cam and want to know exactly how much oil is left in your engine, remove the casting plug in the bottom of the cases and measure what comes out.  Don't do it often, that plug is not like a real drain plug and it isn't designed to be used like one.  But if done carefully one time, you may be enlightened as to how little oil is really left in the sump (assuming you followed the oil change procedure).  On an M8 you can remove the crank sensor from the bottom of the case and measure what comes out.

Trust me, if you take your car or truck to a fast lube joint for oil changes, in most cases they are leaving more than four ounces in your engine.  They don't wait around for all the oil in the top end to drain down completely, they pull the plug and when the oil flow slows to a trickle they jam the plug back in the hole to help meet their time limit.  It's one of the many reasons I still change my own fluids in all my vehicles.  I take the time to be thorough, not many for-profit shops do the same.  Also, unlike those shops I have never had a filter dump all my new oil out because I didn't check for and remove the old filter gasket or didn't tighten the filter properly, I've never stripped a drain plug, I've never put the wrong fluid in any of the various "holes", and I've never damaged my vehicles in any way while doing the service.  Most of those fast lube places cannot honestly make the same claim.  And I count the average Harley dealership oil changers in the same category as those kids in the fast lube places btw. 

Jerry

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Re: Dirty Oil No More
« Reply #29 on: August 02, 2020, 07:50:25 PM »

+1 Jerry.  Still do all of my own vehicle fluid work for exactly these reasons.  And of course the labor cost savings.
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cahdbiker

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Re: Dirty Oil No More
« Reply #30 on: August 02, 2020, 08:36:34 PM »

If you follow correct procedure for an oil change, and if your oiling system is working correctly, you will only have somewhere between four and eight ounces of oil left in the sump.  If you really think you have 32 ounces of old oil remaining in the engine after an oil change, you really should get that POS to the shop right away 'cause something is far from copacetic.

If you have a Twin Cam and want to know exactly how much oil is left in your engine, remove the casting plug in the bottom of the cases and measure what comes out.  Don't do it often, that plug is not like a real drain plug and it isn't designed to be used like one.  But if done carefully one time, you may be enlightened as to how little oil is really left in the sump (assuming you followed the oil change procedure).  On an M8 you can remove the crank sensor from the bottom of the case and measure what comes out.

Trust me, if you take your car or truck to a fast lube joint for oil changes, in most cases they are leaving more than four ounces in your engine.  They don't wait around for all the oil in the top end to drain down completely, they pull the plug and when the oil flow slows to a trickle they jam the plug back in the hole to help meet their time limit.  It's one of the many reasons I still change my own fluids in all my vehicles.  I take the time to be thorough, not many for-profit shops do the same.  Also, unlike those shops I have never had a filter dump all my new oil out because I didn't check for and remove the old filter gasket or didn't tighten the filter properly, I've never stripped a drain plug, I've never put the wrong fluid in any of the various "holes", and I've never damaged my vehicles in any way while doing the service.  Most of those fast lube places cannot honestly make the same claim.  And I count the average Harley dealership oil changers in the same category as those kids in the fast lube places btw. 

Jerry
HI Jerry, next time I change oil  I will measure what comes out  compared to what I put in. Considering  what is in the filter and viewing the Scavenger Puck video I am sure you are mistaken regarding the four to eight ounce assumption. Like I said earlier when I used to purge my evo with the filter off it took at least 28OZ coming out of filter housing before I got clean oil. Maybe what I do is overkill to some  but for what the extra oil and filter cost me it is no biggie to feel better about my oil. Also the POS reference is unprofessional. CAHDBIKER
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cahdbiker

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Re: Dirty Oil No More
« Reply #31 on: August 02, 2020, 08:39:10 PM »


Gotta call BS on that one.  You could not sump something around 25% of total volume and still have the engine running.  The system would not allow it.  Seeing an overall mix that didn't look pristine?  Ah, maybe.  But you're talking ounces of remaining oil; not a quart.  That's why it's just no big deal.
Even if you are correct the fact that dirty oil comes out until a quart is flushed means a lot. Watch the scavenger puck video. It is enlightening. CAHDBIKER
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Twolanerider

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Re: Dirty Oil No More
« Reply #32 on: August 02, 2020, 08:48:38 PM »

Even if you are correct the fact that dirty oil comes out until a quart is flushed means a lot. Watch the scavenger puck video. It is enlightening. CAHDBIKER

It is what a friend of mine who works on infomercials calls, "a good visual" or, more to the point, advertising (propaganda).  And it certainly is.  When considering the totality of the system, however, while the image or video might tell a story it does not tell the whole story. 
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Re: Dirty Oil No More
« Reply #33 on: August 02, 2020, 09:35:49 PM »

Like I said earlier when I used to purge my evo with the filter off it took at least 28OZ coming out of filter housing before I got clean oil. Maybe what I do is overkill to some  but for what the extra oil and filter cost me it is no biggie to feel better about my oil. Also the POS reference is unprofessional.

first, like i said before, it's gonna take that long to get clean looking oil out of your system, just because it doesn't take much dirty residual oil to make the clean look dirty.

and secondly, jerry was being facetious when he said 'pos' because there couldn't be that much residual oil left in the sump without there being something drastically wrong.  he wasn't really saying that your bike was a pos.....  even i got that one.

thirdly, if it makes you happy, you do you.
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I understand the concept of reality, but find it too confining as a way of life

cahdbiker

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Re: Dirty Oil No More
« Reply #34 on: August 04, 2020, 10:55:35 AM »

first, like i said before, it's gonna take that long to get clean looking oil out of your system, just because it doesn't take much dirty residual oil to make the clean look dirty.

and secondly, jerry was being facetious when he said 'pos' because there couldn't be that much residual oil left in the sump without there being something drastically wrong.  he wasn't really saying that your bike was a pos.....  even i got that one.

thirdly, if it makes you happy, you do you.
Hi Guys, I appreciate the input regarding this topic +/-. Ride safe. CAHDBIKER
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2009 SEUC just south of Point Mugu Ventura County, Ca.

muddypaws

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Re: Dirty Oil No More
« Reply #35 on: August 04, 2020, 07:01:18 PM »

For the past 25 years I have put over 500,000 miles on 8 Harleys and change the oil every 5000 miles and have never had an oil related problem. If you got the time and the money enjoy changing it whenever you want if it makes you feel good.
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Bill

muddypaws

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Re: Dirty Oil No More
« Reply #36 on: August 04, 2020, 07:03:01 PM »

For the past 25 years I have put over 500,000 miles on 8 Harleys and change the oil every 5000 miles and have never had an oil related problem. If you got the time and the money enjoy changing it whenever you want if it makes you feel good.
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Bill

Twolanerider

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Re: Dirty Oil No More
« Reply #37 on: August 05, 2020, 03:15:07 PM »

If I could find a woman that would enjoy bathing in the old oil (or, even better, new oil) and having it all rubbed in to make the skin more silky I'd mar.....


Wait, never mind, wrong site.  Never mind.
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iski

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Re: Dirty Oil No More
« Reply #38 on: August 05, 2020, 05:29:04 PM »

^
You are past the time for a needed oil change.

 :)
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Ironhorse

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Re: Dirty Oil No More
« Reply #39 on: August 05, 2020, 06:05:30 PM »

That oil scavenger system looks like a good device. For me the only issue is that it relies on the pipe hole to pump out. That's the one I have the oil temp pick up in. I'm not sure I want to be undoing that every time I change oil.
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"But men are men, the best sometimes forget" Shakespeare, Othello Act 2, Scene 3
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