Topic: ventilator crank case (Read 6308 times)

jeroenelectrum · « **on:** March 19, 2019, 09:45:46 AM »

i found this on facebook https://www.a1cycles.net/machine-shop/ventilator-carnk-case-vent-09-up-tc-and-m8

they have a lot videos on fb
what you guys think should it work???

hrdtail78 · « **Reply #1 on:** March 19, 2019, 10:19:46 AM »

So, he blocks off a port with a gauge and shows you pressure. Then he puts another breather into the system. With the original hole still blocked. He reads pressure again. What does this really show us? what the pressure is in between the umbrella breather valve and gauge when an out let is blocked.

He needs to tap into the cam cover and measure pressure from there. Without a one way valve. Would also be better if he read pressure at crank cavity as well. This would be reading pressure in parallel to the breather bolts.

Is this another breather passage that allows crank case pressure out? Sure is. Just like the unit that was brought to market for the TC engine. Question is, is it really needed and is it addressing the issue or is it a band aid?

hrdtail78 · « **Reply #2 on:** March 21, 2019, 10:36:14 AM »

If excess pressure was a problem..........?

grc · « **Reply #3 on:** March 21, 2019, 04:04:05 PM »

Before you waste your money on this solution looking for a problem, my first question is what problem are you currently having that you think this might "fix"? If it's sumping, I can't imagine how an additional crankcase vent would fix the fact that the oil isn't being directed to the oil pickup in the sump and on to the pump. And btw, some pressure is normal in a crankcase.

If you really want to test this guy's theory, remove your oil cap and cover the opening with some medium to fine mesh screen material to keep debris out, then run the bike under the same conditions that you experience whatever problem it is you want to fix. If it doesn't fix your problem, his $129 vent won't either.

Jerry

yobtaf103 · « **Reply #4 on:** March 23, 2019, 11:58:26 AM »

Quote from: grc on March 21, 2019, 04:04:05 PM

Before you waste your money on this solution looking for a problem, my first question is what problem are you currently having that you think this might "fix"? If it's sumping, I can't imagine how an additional crankcase vent would fix the fact that the oil isn't being directed to the oil pickup in the sump and on to the pump. And btw, some pressure is normal in a crankcase.

If you really want to test this guy's theory, remove your oil cap and cover the opening with some medium to fine mesh screen material to keep debris out, then run the bike under the same conditions that you experience whatever problem it is you want to fix. If it doesn't fix your problem, his $129 vent won't either.

Jerry

Not sure they claim it will cure sumping, more help motor breathe better, well only another way to the same idea as T-man fits to his builds ( not just M8's, video on youtube)
Have seen the musings of the guy on M8 FB if iirc
Fitted S&S pump & plate, now his motor is over oiling the top end out thro head breathers
not sure if head gasket fail was involved, on a stock 107,

Note that S&S 124/128 kits come with redundant oil way plug kit
Note that Cometic revised it's M8 head gasket to cover/seal off that oil way

Para Bellum · « **Reply #5 on:** March 23, 2019, 11:19:07 PM »

Quote from: yobtaf103 on March 23, 2019, 11:58:26 AM

Not sure they claim it will cure sumping,

They didn't claim a cure, just a reduction.
From their web page for this cure-all:
crank case vent for m8 and tc…. easy install solves many problems, lower engine temps, free breathing crank case, less sumping, installs in seconds. relieves crank case pressure and oil filter blow by even on stock bikes,

jeroenelectrum · « **Reply #6 on:** March 28, 2019, 05:11:36 AM »

https://www.feulingparts.com/product.details.php?product=3087 FEULING DID THE SAME THING

OBB · « **Reply #7 on:** March 28, 2019, 07:48:39 AM »

Yet another part to get stolen off your bike when you have your back turned.

iski · « **Reply #8 on:** March 28, 2019, 08:04:07 AM »

True. And the Feuiling part can cause cancer, so there's that as a possible deterrent....

grc · « **Reply #9 on:** March 28, 2019, 08:51:43 AM »

Read that ad from Fueling and you get the impression buying an M8 engine is a bad idea, since they have poor ring sealing and other issues that make Fueling's vent product a necessity. I didn't notice a disclaimer either about how venting crankcase fumes to atmosphere is against the law (violation of emissions regulations). One point I noticed in their blurb got me laughing though, as it points out a flaw many others noted early on in the sumping debates. "Note: The oil pick up port is on the right side of the engine. Letting the bike idle or warm up on the kickstand will naturally fill the engine case and skew the oil level in the tank."

On the Twin Cams, the instructions where to let the engine idle on the side stand two minutes before shutting down, to allow the oil pump to move as much oil as possible from the sump to the oil pan/tank, prior to checking levels or changing the oil.

Jerry

CVOFla · « **Reply #10 on:** April 23, 2019, 02:45:07 PM »

I don't think the vent system was meant to be a cure all but an aid. T-Man Performance came out with a similar but much improved version.

bigcraig · « **Reply #11 on:** April 23, 2019, 02:49:26 PM »

Hers is a pic with the Feuling kit installed.

bigcraig · « **Reply #12 on:** April 23, 2019, 02:50:14 PM »

Another

hrdtail78 · « **Reply #13 on:** April 24, 2019, 12:22:50 PM »

Positive crank venting has proven to help ring seal. Free breathing an engine would do the opposite, right? Creating a vacuum at higher RPM helps horsepower. Free breathing would do the opposite, right?

Anybody ever have a bike come in because it was puking oil because the umbrella valves were shot and not sealing? Problems that come with free breathing engines and a great example why no one does it.

bigchuck · « **Reply #14 on:** April 24, 2019, 01:00:13 PM »

I don't care what he says in the video, you have to be stupid to do that drilling with part on bike.

CVODON · « **Reply #15 on:** April 24, 2019, 06:22:25 PM »

X2 on the drilling.

CVOFla · « **Reply #16 on:** April 25, 2019, 02:41:42 PM »

Vacuum aiding in sealing the rings is correct but, I may be wrong here, isn't the crank case and the oil tank separate from one another unlike your typical automobile engine so the vacuum is still contained in the crank case?
You would think the T-Man and Fueling would understand the ramification of such a modification.
Just my thoughts.

PVC device

CVOFla · « **Reply #17 on:** April 26, 2019, 12:19:10 PM »

Breakdown image of oil tank and crankcase attached

hrdtail78 · « **Reply #18 on:** April 26, 2019, 04:47:51 PM »

What you are showing there is the oil flow for an oil cooled head. What isn't being shown is the passageway through the case where the engine meets the trans. This is for equalization of pressure between tank and engine. All dry sumps have some sort of pressure equalizer like this.

Tn.Heritage · « **Reply #19 on:** April 27, 2019, 07:45:40 AM »

Quote from: hrdtail78 on April 26, 2019, 04:47:51 PM

What you are showing there is the oil flow for an oil cooled head. What isn't being shown is the passageway through the case where the engine meets the trans. This is for equalization of pressure between tank and engine. All dry sumps have some sort of pressure equalizer like this.

I just wish someone would show the proof that all this venting fuss was worth it. All of the sudden this is now the greatest thing since sliced bread but I've yet to see proof. I'd like to see an engine that sumped on the dyno then vent the engine and Bam, no more sumping. I hear ya, just can't see ya, no what I mean ?

mark · « **Reply #20 on:** April 27, 2019, 09:27:56 AM »

I wouldn't have any reservations on drilling - but would have covered the top of the paper towel wad in grease first. But, beyond that...it's very dissapointing to know after dropping $40k plus on a bike, you've got to start cobbling together work-arounds to get it to run as designed. Sad.

cmashark · « **Reply #21 on:** April 27, 2019, 03:36:03 PM »

I have one of the A1 kits. I ran my bike for 1K stock. 1K with an aftermarket stage 2 and the A1 kit. And the last 400 miles without the A1 kit. Never noticed a difference in temps or the amount of oil the bike tries to ingest from the head vents. At idle, you can feel the thing releasing pressure. Come off idle and nothing is moving in our out of the A1 vent. It was a relatively cheap experiment and I learned what I wanted to know. Hell, the way I see it, when I was working on my degree, I spent more money on the book, more time in class, and I still don’t know sh@t about western art from the 16th century. (Yes, I passed the class. $:-\$ )

I wrote 4 when it should’ve been 400.

hrdtail78 · « **Reply #22 on:** April 28, 2019, 10:29:41 AM »

I have had the opportunity to have a few M8’s on the dyno the end of this week. Two of them didn’t have the oil cap vented. One was a 128 with head work putting out right under 150/150. Another was a 124 drop on putting out roughly 125/135. The last one was a HD stage 4 114 w/ a different cam choice putting out 130 something and right under 130 tq. All of these bikes did not have the prior sumping issues. All of them did have after market pump and plate. Both the blue and red brands. Only the 114 had the oil cap vented and on my suggestion. He did spend the four dollars to put a one way in it.

My testing consisted of 100% throttle runs. I would make 3 pull with oil cap on. Pull oil cap and leave hole open and make 3 pull back to back. The one with ventilator got the hose pulled off of cap and plugged. This actually had three test. Cap removed from bike, a plugged oil cap, and ventilator with check valve in place.

My findings? Absolutely nothing. No change in those back to back runs. I suspected that there would be and I was wrong. I also saw nothing gained. So, the idea that it isn’t breathing enough is also debunked for me. Anyway, findings posted either way.

Author Topic: ventilator crank case (Read 6308 times)

mark