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CVO Technical => Twin Cam => Topic started by: jsfenster110 on December 24, 2016, 08:15:59 AM
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I am wanting to go 117 in near future but need to spread the costs. I have the TTS 100 cams now and they are fantastic. Thinking 585s as they will give me more in my 110 and are expandable to 117.
Any other cam to consider for one who likes 2,200-5,500?
The 100s rev quickly. How does one compare ramp up rates in different cams? I am not concerned about peak numbers.
Thanks
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I am wanting to go 117 in near future but need to spread the costs. I have the TTS 100 cams now and they are fantastic. Thinking 585s as they will give me more in my 110 and are expandable to 117.
Any other cam to consider for one who likes 2,200-5,500?
The 100s rev quickly. How does one compare ramp up rates in different cams? I am not concerned about peak numbers.
Thanks
Cycle Rama 575 is my go to cam for a CVO. You will probably get many suggestions, this is just mine.
The customer wanted to quiet the valve train, so we pulled the heads, replaced the stock valve springs and while it was down we zero decked it and added a .030 Cometic head gasket set. Front piston was .010" in the hole and the rear was .009".
Here's the graph, we went with Fullsac mufflers with 1.75" baffles for quietness. A set of 2" cores would have pushed it above 120 torque and around 105hp. In a 117 with the compression set between 10-10.2:1 it would only get better and you can ride it anywhere with power on demand.
Added: This valve train is silent, even at temp.
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That is beautiful graph. The CR will grow with me to 117i am assuming?
Any idea what the hp/tq would look like?
Thank you!
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That is beautiful graph. The CR will grow with me to 117i am assuming?
Any idea what the hp/tq would look like?
Thank you!
I am not a speculator of numbers, but yes, the Cycle Rama 575 will grow, I have ran it @ 10.5:1 with great results in 107" builds but the tune has to be spot on.
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That is beautiful graph. The CR will grow with me to 117i am assuming?
Any idea what the hp/tq would look like?
Thank you!
You're welcome and thanks for the kind words.
I don't know exactly what you are looking for, but I can tell you this "Stage 2+" 110 is a REALLY fun ride, and it's hard to stay in the seat with all that early torque. Something you might keep in mind before you buy the 117" kit.
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You're welcome and thanks for the kind words.
I don't know exactly what you are looking for, but I can tell you this "Stage 2+" 110 is a REALLY fun ride, and it's hard to stay in the seat with all that early torque. Something you might keep in mind before you buy the 117" kit.
Daren,
Post your 113 build with Larry's heads running the CR 575.... hold on tight with that one ;D
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Daren,
Post your 113 build with Larry's heads running the CR 575.... hold on tight with that one ;D
Thanks Mr. D
Here's a link to the thread.
http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=109125.0
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Consider the motor has gone up in size considerably.
The TTS 100 was a fine torquer cam for the 110, 9.3:1 compression, all done at 4500 or 5k in a 103. Now at 117 a 240 degree cam is what will get it to 5K or a little better with stock heads with good low end torque, compression adjusted accordingly, and no pms.
The TTS 100 is too short for the 117 which stock has over 10:1 compression. PMS will ensue.
The S&S 585 is a move the wrong way with its added exhaust duration, still a hot rod cam in a 117"
You may be surprised how sweet a Tman 600sm works in that 117 motor without head work. Don't let the lift fool you this is a short cam but just right.
I would not mess with the heads unless it is just a blueprint to install better guides, springs, seals and a serdi valve job.
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Will the tman 600 work in the 110 also? Stock compression for now?
This is a two step process.
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Yes, has been documented on Fulsacs site
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Awesome and thank you.
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Will the tman 600 work in the 110 also? Stock compression for now?
This is a two step process.
Don,
600sm work in a wet head 103 also or another grind suggested ?
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That's my CVO110 that Daren was referring to that I wanted to quiet down the top end noise. At 17k miles, I found the lifters were getting ready to spread some metal around so Daren came up with a recipe that has virtually eliminated the valve train noise and hopefully also enhances the longevity of the engine. The bike runs great and I'm very happy with it and Daren's work.
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Don,
600sm work in a wet head 103 also or another grind suggested ?
Work, yes. But everyone wants a different result. This poster stated he was not chasing numbers.
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HD Street,
Chasing quality numbers yes. I think I saw where Steve at Fullsac made 126 foot pounds with the T man 600s. There are so many cams that are close in specs to the average person in their grinds.
That is why I ask people like yourself which one really works. I have replaced the lifters and pushrods and it has been recommended to replace the chain tensioner and the oil valve in the cam plate? Better return flow? I know some have replaced the entire cam/oil plate.
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I know but another chimed in and tried to box the 600sm as the right grind for a 103. I knew your goals and requirements not his.
This cam choice is not about good brand or good cam!
It is about holistic choices that fit the goals of the rider and combination of parts the motor presents. A 103, 110, and 117" are different for other reasons than just displacement. Everything needs to be matched for good performance. The cam can come from one of a dozen of brands but most are ground by Andrews except S&S. Quality is good on all of them. The exhaust system is a vital part as soon as a cam now has overlap to add to the party.
Overwrenching is your enemy. Skip the hype and leave your tensioners and OP / cam chest alone.
Be diligent and go after the weak link LIFTERS.
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I know but another chimed in and tried to box the 600sm as the right grind for a 103. I knew your goals and requirements not his.
This cam choice is not about good brand or good cam!
It is about holistic choices that fit the goals of the rider and combination of parts the motor presents. A 103, 110, and 117" are different for other reasons than just displacement. Everything needs to be matched for good performance. The cam can come from one of a dozen of brands but most are ground by Andrews except S&S. Quality is good on all of them. The exhaust system is a vital part as soon as a cam now has overlap to add to the party.
Overwrenching is your enemy. Skip the hype and leave your tensioners and OP / cam chest alone.
Be diligent and go after the weak link LIFTERS.
My apology
Thread hijack was not the intent
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I know but another chimed in and tried to box the 600sm as the right grind for a 103. I knew your goals and requirements not his.
This cam choice is not about good brand or good cam!
It is about holistic choices that fit the goals of the rider and combination of parts the motor presents. A 103, 110, and 117" are different for other reasons than just displacement. Everything needs to be matched for good performance. The cam can come from one of a dozen of brands but most are ground by Andrews except S&S. Quality is good on all of them. The exhaust system is a vital part as soon as a cam now has overlap to add to the party.
Overwrenching is your enemy. Skip the hype and leave your tensioners and OP / cam chest alone.
Be diligent and go after the weak link LIFTERS.
Taking a stock 2013 SEUC and doing the 117 upgrade with the parts you suggest, what kind of cost would I be looking at. I'm not a really hard rider but I like to roll on it occasionally. I have 45k on the engine now.
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HD Street Performance, thanks again. I have replaced the faulty lifters but I had heard the tensioners were weak.
One final question; what if instead of the 117 kit as the ultimate goal I just add the tman 600 and some 10:1 110 pistons? How would that change both the power and the enhancements to drivability? Would power come on harder lower or higher or maybe both with the added compression?
Thank you
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Taking a stock 2013 SEUC and doing the 117 upgrade with the parts you suggest, what kind of cost would I be looking at. I'm not a really hard rider but I like to roll on it occasionally. I have 45k on the engine now.
The cylinder kits are available from HD and cams from Tman. Check their pricing.
I am out unless there is head work involved. This is for the guy looking for 130+ hp and still a very respectable torque curve that comes on hard and early.
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HD Street Performance, thanks again. I have replaced the faulty lifters but I had heard the tensioners were weak.
One final question; what if instead of the 117 kit as the ultimate goal I just add the tman 600 and some 10:1 110 pistons? How would that change both the power and the enhancements to drivability? Would power come on harder lower or higher or maybe both with the added compression?
Thank you
Truth be told by a non-sales person the stock tensioners are lasting quite well, equal or better to the aftermarket versions. Lots of sales hype that looks convincing but there are better ways to spend the money and get reliable power from these motors with a stock cam chest. You addressed the lifters but that is a maintenance item still and at the same time the tensioners should be a check item. The anti-rotational pins need to be properly sized. The crank, at least checked for run out, better yet pinned and trued and rod bearings checked, rods sized. Heads a blueprint, Serdi valve job, bronze manganese guides, lower pressure beehive springs (less stress on lifters). Use good gaskets including Cometic .030 head and HD base gaskets if going to 117. This is the real meat and potatoes behind keeping these motors running for the longer haul.
10:1 is what the stock 117 drop on kit will yield with a .030 head gasket no need for any special pistons. Stock Mahle pistons, good parts. With the 600sm this will be a very strong torque package. Want more then porting and other things come into play.
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HD Perf...huge help thanks.
So, who makes the 110 pistons if I go bigger compression.
You mention Harley?
I assume this will benefit the sm 600s. I think for a solo rider this is plenty.
I know, once I ride for a while, I may want more.
Thanks again.
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I sell CP, Mahle, and Diamond Racing pistons but stock pistons in the kit is the limit I would run at 117" with that cam.
More cam, more compression, head work, larger throttle body and injectors and a new window opens.
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HD Performance,
What should labor be for cam and piston install?
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I don't know, maybe one of the dealer techs can advise.
I work on motors out of the chassis.
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Ok. Thx!