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CVO Social => In The News => Topic started by: hornhonker on January 08, 2010, 01:35:54 AM
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http://www.cbc.ca/cp/Oddities/100107/K010704AU.html
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OUCH!!!!
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It's based on your ability to pay. The more you're worth, the higher the ticket. Seems a bit discriminatory, but then that's the way our tax system works so go figure.
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Holy Crap
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It's based on your ability to pay. The more you're worth, the higher the ticket. Seems a bit discriminatory, but then that's the way our tax system works so go figure.
Sounds like a very fair system to me. The original purpose of fines and penalties was to discourage illegal behavior, but the standard diddly-squat fines in most areas don't provide much of a disincentive for those folks with more money than brains. For instance, I seriously doubt those "celebrities" destroying speed limits in their Ferrari's or Lamborghini's are worried about a $200 fine if they get caught. However, maybe if the fine for doubling the speed limit involved a $200,000 fine and having the car seized, there would be enough at stake to slow a few of them down and maybe save an innocent life or two.
I know it's not a popular opinion on this site, but having money doesn't mean one has an inalienable right to do as they please without regard for the rest of us peons. Especially after the events of the past few years, I'm very happy every time I see some self-absorbed rich dude get their comeuppance. For instance, I would love to see Bernie Maddof have a lot of company in his new home. I guess if you target mostly very rich (and greedy) folks and eventually get caught, you spend the rest of your life in prison. But if you target the poor and middle class, you don't even go to trial. Yeah, sounds fair to me.
Jerry
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Do you think you should pay more for a gallon of gas than somebody who makes less than you do? Or maybe we should let people who declare bankruptcy have carte blanch as far as fines go? It's their ability to pay that sets the rate, right? Hey, you've got a nice fancy motorcycle that is a luxury that you choose to own, how about you pay a few thousand on top of what you do now - because you can.
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What I think is, having money doesn't give you the right to avoid those laws and regulations that you can afford to blow off. Poor people can't speed without facing severe (to them) economic penalties, but rich folks can pick and choose the laws they want to obey because they have plenty of money to pay the penalties (and buy influence with the authorities)? Why don't we just write the rules that way instead of being hypocrites and pretending the law is fair to all? Speed limits based on net worth could be the start; poor folks restricted to the slow lanes and 45 mph, middle class folks restricted to the slow and center lanes at 55 mph, and the rich dudes get the express lanes at whatever speed they want. Poor folks wandering into the rich folks lanes will be pulled over, their ratty vehicles impounded, and the driver thrown in jail.
Jerry
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What I think is, having money doesn't give you the right to avoid those laws and regulations that you can afford to blow off. Poor people can't speed without facing severe (to them) economic penalties, but rich folks can pick and choose the laws they want to obey because they have plenty of money to pay the penalties (and buy influence with the authorities)? Why don't we just write the rules that way instead of being hypocrites and pretending the law is fair to all? Speed limits based on net worth could be the start; poor folks restricted to the slow lanes and 45 mph, middle class folks restricted to the slow and center lanes at 55 mph, and the rich dudes get the express lanes at whatever speed they want. Poor folks wandering into the rich folks lanes will be pulled over, their ratty vehicles impounded, and the driver thrown in jail.
Jerry
Sounds like Communism :nixweiss:
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Sounds like Communism :nixweiss:
Communism, Obama Fascism, whatever you want to call it. Let each pay according to his ability. Why not just equal everything out? You obviously make more than you need to survive, and what the hell do you need a motorcycle plaything for - your entertainment? You probably have a better house than many people, and heating it costs a lot smaller percentage of your income than it does for somebody who makes less. Why should you be allowed to be warm just because it doesn't have as much economic impact on you? Why should you be allowed to have or do anything just because you have more money? Not so nice a scenario when it gets personal, eh? I choose not to live in that world.
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I think that line will split down the middle of the people who have worked hard all there lives and the ones who think because they were born in the USA that the government owes them something! Where did this since of entitlement come from anyway? Jesse Jackson? It seems allot of younger people I meet today have it! just sayin!
I served in the military starting at age 17, went to college and worked then worked hard for the last 29 years! I will be dammed if I will share anything but the hot end of my bullets with anyone who sits on there ass all day saying where mine?
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Why don't we just write the rules that way instead of being hypocrites and pretending the law is fair to all? Speed limits based on net worth could be the start; poor folks restricted to the slow lanes and 45 mph, middle class folks restricted to the slow and center lanes at 55 mph, and the rich dudes get the express lanes at whatever speed they want. Poor folks wandering into the rich folks lanes will be pulled over, their ratty vehicles impounded, and the driver thrown in jail.
Jerry
Just when I thought I had seen it all! No doubt, Jerry, I've never agreed on your sociopolitical posts, but can support you whole heartedly on this one. Just add one more category for the current government whacko's to drive in the breakdown lane and your idea will be just the ticket (no pun intended). ;D
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Conviently glossing over my entire point won't change the facts. This isn't about folks with more money being able to have more toys, or better heating systems in their homes, or any of that other BS. It's about making laws that impact all violators equally, and charging the same $100 fine to a poor person and a wealthy person does not result in equal impact or incentive to obey the law. Of course, I assume you guys would also prefer to maintain the status quo when we talk about more serious crimes. Rich guys can afford Johnny Cochran and a 20 lawyer team to get them off even when they are obviously guilty, but the poor guy gets a rookie straight out of law school with no money for investigators, jury experts, etc., and winds up going to prison even if innocent (just read the news, plenty of poor folks are being proved innocent after spending decades in prison for crimes they didn't commit).
Life sure is tough for rich folks. All I hear is bitching about how the poor don't have to pay taxes, they get too many government benefits, they just lay around and mooch off the rich, etc. Here's my suggestion for all the well-to-do folks who think the poor have it so good: give away all your worldly possessions and become one of them. After a year or so, come back and give us a report on how that's working out for you. Or, perhaps you would rather just be grateful for what you have and quit trying to blame the less fortunate for your unhappiness. :nixweiss:
JMHO - Jerry
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Ooooop's ..... thought it was too good to be true. Nope, I'll not be giving anything away to anyone other than my family or friends who are in need. Worked way to hard and long. No, I don't want the government helping me "redistribute" my holdings either. I'm much better at managing it than they are. After all, I don't have a trillion dollar deficit, they do.
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Well youze can argue out the communistic way to meter these things. If you want to base it on something that different groups will pay, then base on the freakin ABILITY TO DRIVE in the first place! Way too many freakin people on the roads now that don't belong there. And MANY don't even belong in the damn country at all! Make us take REAL driving tests and really prove we're CITIZENS, instead of these BS ones that lets every moron under the sun drive! Those that drive worst, pay most! There, how's that?!!! Hmmm....still communistic? If you don't like our democratic system, being that's it's supposed to be fair for ALL, then MOVE to CHINA!!! :P
Hoist! :coolblue:
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My final words on it since it's useless trying to argue with liberals: If you don't want to pay a fine - don't commit the crime.
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sounds like we live in an ObamaNation.
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It wasnt me! Honest! :apple:
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Maybe that's why we get points deducted. You lose enough points you lose your ability to drive.
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Conviently glossing over my entire point won't change the facts. This isn't about folks with more money being able to have more toys, or better heating systems in their homes, or any of that other BS. It's about making laws that impact all violators equally Where is that written? , and charging the same $100 fine to a poor person and a wealthy person does not result in equal impact or incentive to obey the law. Of course, I assume you guys would also prefer to maintain the status quo when we talk about more serious crimes. Rich guys can afford Johnny Cochran and a 20 lawyer team to get them off even when they are obviously guilty, but the poor guy gets a rookie straight out of law school with no money for investigators, jury experts, etc., and winds up going to prison even if innocent (just read the news, plenty of poor folks are being proved innocent after spending decades in prison for crimes they didn't commit).
Life sure is tough for rich folks. All I hear is bitching about how the poor don't have to pay taxes, they get too many government benefits, they just lay around and mooch off the rich, etc. Here's my suggestion for all the well-to-do folks who think the poor have it so good: give away all your worldly possessions and become one of them. After a year or so, come back and give us a report on how that's working out for you. Or, perhaps you would rather just be grateful for what you have and quit trying to blame the less fortunate for your unhappiness. :nixweiss:
JMHO - Jerry
It all comes down to defining equal justice.
Most people would describe equal due th fact the "fine" would be the same for everyone regardless of stature or means
I would bet that system could not pass the smell test on constitionality.
That would be a pretty slippery slope to walk and promotes class warfare.
Why stop there (with fines), maybe a case could be made that you should do less jail time because you grew up in a bad side of town?
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Life sure is tough for rich folks. All I hear is bitching about how the poor don't have to pay taxes, they get too many government benefits, they just lay around and mooch off the rich, etc. Here's my suggestion for all the well-to-do folks who think the poor have it so good: give away all your worldly possessions and become one of them. After a year or so, come back and give us a report on how that's working out for you. Or, perhaps you would rather just be grateful for what you have and quit trying to blame the less fortunate for your unhappiness.
JMHO - Jerry
What's the definition of rich folks or all the well-to-do folks? Some people in this country grow up without possessions due to circumstances out of their control and then work honestly within their means to have successes in life. Some become well-to-do and others become rich.
I think that from reading about how many forum members are living their lives by visiting America on the top sides of their bikes they seem to be well-to-do.
This forum seems to be designed around the concept of what members have in common and what they can share with each other. I'm hoping to get/give more positive info from/to others with more/less experiences to make my riding better regardless of their financial status.
BUT....If you're rich and can help me get set up so I can afford to pay a $290,000 fine (I now have a new dream) please send an EM.
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That yellow type just blinded me. (who am I kidding, with glaucoma & cataracs, I was already pretty much there). har. :drink: spyder
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SORRY ABOUT THE YELLOW PRINT!!!!
Afterwards I knew that was a backfire, a sputter, and a pop. I'm still warming up on these tools. I can read it if I put on my specs and move in to about two inches from the screen. Lets retry in blue
Life sure is tough for rich folks. All I hear is bitching about how the poor don't have to pay taxes, they get too many government benefits, they just lay around and mooch off the rich, etc. Here's my suggestion for all the well-to-do folks who think the poor have it so good: give away all your worldly possessions and become one of them. After a year or so, come back and give us a report on how that's working out for you. Or, perhaps you would rather just be grateful for what you have and quit trying to blame the less fortunate for your unhappiness.
JMHO - Jerry
What's the definition of rich folks or all the well-to-do folks? Some people in this country grow up without possessions due to circumstances out of their control and then work honestly within their means to have successes in life. Some become well-to-do and others become rich.
I think that from reading about how many forum members are living their lives by visiting America on the top sides of their bikes they seem to be well-to-do.
This forum seems to be designed around the concept of what members have in common and what they can share with each other. I'm hoping to get/give more positive info from/to others with more/less experiences to make my riding better regardless of their financial status.
BUT....If you're rich and can help me get set up so I can afford to pay a $290,000 fine (I now have a new dream) please send an EM.
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What's the definition of rich folks or all the well-to-do folks?
I've found, generally, that that definition is, if you make more money then I do, you're well-to-do. If you make a lot more then I do you're rich.
Jimmy Carter said one thing in his entire presidency that I agreed with. "Life isn't fair". I agree with Jerry that a $250 fine doesn't slow down a "rich" driver. But there are laws that do. If they get pulled over for more then 30 over the speed limit in PA they loose their license. If you get caught without a license too many time you do time. Is it equitable in the long run? I don't know. But if we start down the "each according to his need, each according to his ability to pay" road we're in real trouble.
To paraphrase Neil Pert (From memory... Didn't feel like googling the exact lyic): The maples want more sunlight but the oaks ignore their pleas. So they passed the motor law and now they all get equal hatchet, axe and saw.
Ride Safe,
JC
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Pay to play.
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Anyone remember the phrase "Punishment should fit the crime"?
If that truly is the case then it should be a matter of society deciding how heinous a particular act is and then the fine/imprisonment matches the seriousness of the offense, not based on the status of the offender.
To me it would be like going into a Harley dealer and buying a bike based on your credit score or assets. If you are lower or middle class you pay X amount but if you are more financially well off you pay extra.
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Hmmm, so this story finally has found it's way over the pond ::)
Will you please remember this is a fairy tale from a jurisdiction wich is - in many if not all ways - entirely different to yours.
This is Roman Law - and as it's so nicely put somewhere: "if I have to explain, you will not understand" :D
Fact is: this was an evident case of excessive punishment - if it's not an urban legend at all.
It has been widely discussed in the european law-societies and everybodys consent was: this should and will never survive appeal - if it's for real at all.
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I've found, generally, that that definition is, if you make more money then I do, you're well-to-do. If you make a lot more then I do you're rich.
What JC said... Being retired, maybe they would pay me to speed.
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Here's my take on the matter, the law should apply equally to all, no matter your
financial situation.
I wrote a big rant and just erased it. So here's my small rant.
If you want something in life get off your a** and work for it. Just
because your born in the United States does not entitle you to
anything other than the right to get off your a** and work so you can
pursue happiness.
I'm not rich, not even close,and I'm not interested in being subsidized
by the rich guy down the street. If he earned his money legally, he's
entitled to it and government should not be trying to redistribute his
wealth to some slacker that wants a free ride.
If you feel guilty for having more than others you can give until it hurts,
but I will keep mine thank you very much.
:soapbox: