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[rayson56]

Looking for insight from people in the know here please. My bike is a 2018 CVO RG 117 and has had a pretty consistent and bothersome ping at 2900 rpm which is not noticeable when cold and much more apparent as the engine gets warmer, and terrible when hot. Does not appear to be fuel sensitive as I only run 91,92 octane and have even tried non ethanol when it's available. I have had my bike dyno tuned after adding the Fullsac header and 2"cores with TTS, then on a local dyno after adding a cam chest upgrade which included a RS 468 cam. Then by another tech on a 3rd Dynojet, and while the bike runs pretty good (it's possible they each needed to remove some timing to ease the pinging) the pinging at that RPM is still consistent at temp. I also have added the oil cooler fan.
I'm wondering since 3 tuners have failed to fix this problem if there is something physically wrong inside the engine? Some sort of carbon build up, bad valve seat, cracked intake? 

Any insight, especially by you builders would be greatly appreciated.

[Unbalanced]

What tuner are you using?   Is the knock sensor turned on?   If it is, what is max degree of retard?

Can you data log the ping so you can address specifically where it is happening?

You hear the ping?   Or something (logging) is telling you it’s pinging?

If your using the Power vision and have the unit - you could do a few trials on the road using the quick tune as well as the log capture.   In the quick tune you could remove timing in the mid range in steps to see if you can get it to disappear And / or capture the data to remove timing specifically where it occurs you can also do this with TTS as well.

 

[rayson56]

As mentioned above TTS Mastertune is and has been the tuner. And yes the ping is audible. Tuned by 3 different tech's, one of which was Steve from Fullsac. But thanks for your input.

[HOGMIKE]

You might want to check the TTS website and maybe try one of the tuning files that matches your build and see how your bike reacts. There may be a mechanical problem if all 3 tunes didn’t solve the issue.
Nothing to lose and easy to check.

Just a thought.
 

[HD Street Performance]

Perform a compression test with the throttle open and disconnect the ACRs. I agree with the plan to data log for timing events. The m8 has knock sensors,  it is possible one or both can be bad.

[rayson56]

After I installed the new cam last winter, Steve Cole from TTS sent me a tune personally as a Christmas gift, until I could get my bike in the Dyno, as around here most of the techs are on hiatus for a couple of months during the winter. Yes it pinged with that tune also, just not as much with the cool temp's. here in Washington.
So I'm thinking mechanical as well but not sure where to go from here.

[rayson56]

Perform a compression test with the throttle open and disconnect the ACRs. I agree with the plan to data log for timing events. The m8 has knock sensors,  it is possible one or both can be bad.

Thank you, I'm going to schedule it in to the shop in the next few weeks so that sounds like some very good information to pass along.

Please keep any ideas coming.

TIA

[HD Street Performance]

The tts shops around here i recommend. 
Huff, Easy Street Custom Cycles, Lonewolf (Nanaimo)

[rayson56]

The tts shops around here i recommend. 
Huff, Easy Street Custom Cycles, Lonewolf (Nanaimo)

I'm clear up in Marysville so between Huff and Easy Street, (Canada is a no fly zone for me) which do you recommend, especially if there is a mechanical issue and tearing into it is necessary?

[TN]

Hook up your TTS go for a ride and data log, post the data and current tune after review.


Have you gathered data before?

[fastfreddy]

just wondering what pipe, MX ?  what baffle ?

[HD Street Performance]

I'm clear up in Marysville so between Huff and Easy Street, (Canada is a no fly zone for me) which do you recommend, especially if there is a mechanical issue and tearing into it is necessary?

Take it to Huff in Des Moines. a little closer and he is a friend of Steve Cole, full shop not just tuning.

[rayson56]

Have you gathered data before?


I have not.

[rayson56]

just wondering what pipe, MX ?  what baffle ?

I have had my bike dyno tuned after adding the Fullsac header and 2"cores with TTS

[rayson56]

Take it to Huff in Des Moines. a little closer and he is a friend of Steve Cole, full shop not just tuning.

Thanks, I appreciate your input! When Steve George had it on his Dyno in Lk Havasu, he actually called Steve Cole for advice and he had no answer. Didn't appear to have anything to do with tuner or tune.

[HD Street Performance]

Next I would be looking for oil in the combustion and a motor health check, compression and leakdown

[rayson56]

Perform a compression test with the throttle open and disconnect the ACRs. I agree with the plan to data log for timing events. The m8 has knock sensors,  it is possible one or both can be bad.

If a knock sensor was bad wouldn't I have a check engine light on? This is the only code that I get every once in awhile.

[HD Street Performance]

That is an O2 sensor code. If there was a lean condition  it would ping. It takes a tech with skills and tools to get to the root cause, not a parts changer. The electrical diagnostic manual is very good for this.

[Fullsac Performance]

As mentioned above TTS Mastertune is and has been the tuner. And yes the ping is audible. Tuned by 3 different tech's, one of which was Steve from Fullsac. But thanks for your input.

Email me the map and I can pull a little timing from the problem area. I remember tuning this one. Something wasn't normal?

Steve@fullsac.com

[rayson56]

Thanks for reaching out Steve, that's why after 3 tuners, including you, I'm assuming that the problem is mechanical/physical and ultimately not in the tune. It seems timing has already been pulled to try to alleviate the problem but to no avail. I figure I'll need to take it to a shop and have it torn down to find the issue, just looking for ideas on where to start and to see if anyone here has run across this before.

[VANAMAL]

Ive seen then ping like crazy due to carbon build up also may be piston problem

[rayson56]

I appreciate the input.

[Pearl114]

I'm in Ca. same issue with the ping on my Street Glide Special 114 with Screaming Eagle stage II.  only 3k miles just got it in July, Dealer ship said they can't adjust Harley Map. Independent shop said they could only dial in at the 3K rpm and up.  He did say try octane booster, has anyone tried that and if so, a. did it work and b. what brand.  Thanks I'm new to the site.

[rayson56]

As far as what goes in your fuel tank it should be Premium (91) octane or above and NO octane boost, or so I've been told by those I trust.
I just dropped mine off to have it checked out in the morning. They are going to do a leak down and compression test and also use a bore scope to see if there are any internal issues, then we'll make game plan and move forward.

[HD Street Performance]

Oil in the combustion reduces octane and causes detonation.

[rayson56]

Will a leak down or compression test tell if there is oil in the compression chamber? If not what will? TIA

[fastfreddy]

try venting crankcase to atmosphere or a catch can..... may be that simple..... or not 

[rayson56]

Sooo, the leak down test was less than 20%, which is within Harley's spec's (Harley supposedly says up to 25% is acceptable on the 4 valve M8 especially with 40K. ), compression is 230 per cylinder, and bore scope apparently showed nothing out of the ordinary, so mechanically everything seemed to be within spec. Time to look elsewhere.
Checking the tune with my TTS Mastertune the young gamer tech named Wade (who is my new idol) found that the tables were way out of whack and went to work. Apparently there was a major lean spot at the rpm range in question and the adaptive fuel values were all over the place. He changed my plugs and rebuilt my entire main fuel table (which with TTS is no small feat and very time consuming apparently) while doing about 10 dyno pulls to get some great results. Then, after reading a thread on here, I had him upgrade my intake to the Screamin Eagle 55mm intake and 5.1mm injectors and re-tune it. He then took it out for a 35 mile real world ride and the chart below is what we ended up with doing 5th gear runs. So a big thanks once again for all of the great input from the members here.

[rayson56]

I took the bike out and rode a couple hundred miles and its working great!

[HD Street Performance]

What shop performed the work?
20-25% leakdown is the repair limit. This is a motor that is toast. Yours is not there with 230 compression readings.

[rayson56]

Thank you for your continued and positive support to the folks on this amazing website.

[ltank]

I always thought pinging could also be caused by ignition timing is off especially when changing cams and motor is high compression. My two cents!

[Unbalanced]

I always thought pinging could also be caused by ignition timing is off especially when changing cams and motor is high compression. My two cents!

Yup sure can.

It can be fuel, can be timing, it can also be a combination of compression, early intake close and all the rest.

Quick closing intake on a cam with too much compression will yield detonation.   So the compression you thought would make you more power will end up being negated by all the timing you have to pull so the motor doesn’t ping.   It’s a balance as well as having a tuner that knows their stuff.   

A lot of folks tune their bikes where there is elevation and they tune them to make the most power they can.  (lots of compression/timing).  Then they come to sea level areas like Daytona and ping badly.   Yet at home they get away with it.   

[HD Street Performance]

Throw into the mix oil in the combustion.  Kills octane faster  than Willey Coyote

[kojak]

It happens the other way as well, not so much with O2 sensors as before. I remember riding at elevation in the Rockies on a bike tuned to run in Virginia  and had to especially keep from low rpms.

Yup sure can.

It can be fuel, can be timing, it can also be a combination of compression, early intake close and all the rest.

Quick closing intake on a cam with too much compression will yield detonation.   So the compression you thought would make you more power will end up being negated by all the timing you have to pull so the motor doesn’t ping.   It’s a balance as well as having a tuner that knows their stuff.   

A lot of folks tune their bikes where there is elevation and they tune them to make the most power they can.  (lots of compression/timing).  Then they come to sea level areas like Daytona and ping badly.   Yet at home they get away with it.

[75wagon]

I put a stage colder spark plugs in mine it helped tremendously