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Author Topic: 17 Shady Reasons Why Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Are Struggling  (Read 4406 times)

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RivRaptor

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Re: 17 Shady Reasons Why Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Are Struggling
« Reply #15 on: December 31, 2021, 05:26:29 PM »

I could write paragraphs about this subject and the article does actually graze over some of what I believe are the issues affecting HD. May tomorrow....
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Mr. Warlock

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Re: 17 Shady Reasons Why Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Are Struggling
« Reply #16 on: January 01, 2022, 07:10:07 AM »

And they will, they always have.

I agree with your statement, except.... They are always last to the party, wait until they know they can't wait any longer, always push it to the brink of the "loyal" customers jumping ship and then only providing the bare minimal modern advancement. The biggest example, why on earth would they not already have a full liquid cooled touring bike in a modern frame with a modern (one that actually works like it should) suspension. Other than preserving the shareholder dollar there is no excuse for the bikes they are sending out the door. And, if you really wanted to worry about the shareholder dollar this would have been done years ago and that dollar would have some teeth now.
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Re: 17 Shady Reasons Why Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Are Struggling
« Reply #17 on: January 01, 2022, 10:06:29 AM »

And they will, they always have. 

But HD is stuck with "tradition".  By that I mean to appease their aging loyalists, the new bikes need to appear the same as previous years, minus a few tweaks like a mail slot in the fairing and different shaped tour pack.  To the untrained eye, a 2021 ElectraGlide looks almost like a 1977 ElectraGlide, and therein lies the tradition.  Now HD has done excellent over the years with adding fuel injection, ABS, and water cooling, all modern updated stuff. 

Where HD fails is in price and dependability.  No one wants to spend $45,000 on a bike that needs to have the lifters swapped out every other oil change.  No one wants to buy a touring bike that will break a compensator in the middle of Yellowstone National Park.
The Frame is 13 years old for the touring bike.  It is long, long over due for an update.  Nobody is using and older design.  Suspension on it is 1960's at best.  Every touring bike out there has better suspension.  Every touring bike out there has ride modes, and have had ride modes for years. 

Seems the M-8 does not need lifter changes like the 110 twin cam did.  Sure they added fuel injection and ABS, but the suspension still SUCKS.  Put 2000 into the suspension and its still not close to as good as my Pan America, and its still not as good as a Goldwing or a Indian Challenger. 

Harley has the looks down pat, nothing beats Harley touring bike looks.  Every other touring bike beats it in performance and handling.
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Finster101

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Re: 17 Shady Reasons Why Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Are Struggling
« Reply #18 on: January 01, 2022, 04:05:42 PM »

Seems to me many of these upgrades everyone desires is going to affect the looks rather drastically.  Hell you can't even see the motor in a wing and it is a 10 hour job to change an air filter.  There is no question about poor engine internal part combinations made.  The 110 is a perfect example.  If Harley goes to a Mono shock frame anf full cowling on it's touring bikes I sure won't be buying one.   
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Landshark

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Re: 17 Shady Reasons Why Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Are Struggling
« Reply #19 on: January 03, 2022, 09:10:48 AM »

First quality and dependability, I believe, are the core goals to turning the ship. Then they have to widen their market to attract new customers.  I believe the problem with the V-Rod was no the motor, it was the bike they put it in. Only time will tell, but I have no interest in purchasing a new HD when what they put out just doesn’t stand the test of time for reliability.
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Ironhorse

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Re: 17 Shady Reasons Why Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Are Struggling
« Reply #20 on: January 03, 2022, 04:14:35 PM »

Seems to me many of these upgrades everyone desires is going to affect the looks rather drastically.  Hell you can't even see the motor in a wing and it is a 10 hour job to change an air filter.  There is no question about poor engine internal part combinations made.  The 110 is a perfect example.  If Harley goes to a Mono shock frame anf full cowling on it's touring bikes I sure won't be buying one.

It's only 4 hours to change the air filter on the new GoldWing,....LOL!!

HD can make most of those changes without losing too much in the looks department.  No need to go single-side swing arm with shaft-drive.  They can start by changing the suspension to Ohlins or Legends or even Works quality.  BUT HD keeps going to the lowest bidder for suspension components, as well as seals, gaskets and bearings.  Going to an engine with full water cooling like the V-Rod would help immensely, they've already figured out where to hide the radiators and fans.  Ride modes are really an ECM application that is selectable by a switch.  It can't be too difficult to build a programmable ECM once you go fully water cooled. All of this is possible in a few years.  But like you said, internal parts and quality is what must be addressed.  As a rider who owns both a CVO Ultra and a new generation GoldWing, I can only say I'd rather send my bike to the shop for an air filter change every 30,000 miles than a lifter change every 12,000.

Of course if HD did all those upgrades the base line price would be $60k.  But then there's that built in blind brand loyalty that we all suffer from. That will make us go out and buy the newest old technology HD can come up with.
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Finster101

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Re: 17 Shady Reasons Why Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Are Struggling
« Reply #21 on: January 03, 2022, 05:34:04 PM »

"Of course if HD did all those upgrades the base line price would be $60k.  But then there's that built in blind brand loyalty that we all suffer from. That will make us go out and buy the newest old technology HD can come up with."

I guess I never had to have the latest and greatest.  Probably why I have an 08 Roadglide and a 93 Fatboy. 
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TN

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Re: 17 Shady Reasons Why Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Are Struggling
« Reply #22 on: January 04, 2022, 07:13:08 AM »

 Not safe to buy anything that is HD new technology first year production, I learned that the hard way, even upgraded old technology is questionable. I’m sure there has to be some interesting changes to the bikes this year and somehow the market share that HD has on the touring bikers in the USA will continue. After all Indian sucked them in back at the race track and they did very well, the effort put forth was impressive in the results. 

A driveshaft is due on the baggers at the least, R&R a rear wheel on a goldwing is a pleasure compared to a HD FLH. Too much life left on the M8 patent for a change there. I anxiously await the unveiling of the 22's.  :drink:
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Re: 17 Shady Reasons Why Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Are Struggling
« Reply #23 on: January 04, 2022, 01:31:52 PM »

This article was written by a non-biker so most of it was arm-chair quarter back. But they did get one thing right- Keith Wandel totally F'd Harley-Davidson and he made millions doing it. The American Way.
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Ironhorse

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Re: 17 Shady Reasons Why Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Are Struggling
« Reply #24 on: January 04, 2022, 04:43:45 PM »

A driveshaft is due on the baggers at the least, R&R a rear wheel on a goldwing is a pleasure compared to a HD FLH.

Actually, the way the HD Loyalists are aging up, I think Reverse is needed more than shaft drive.  In fact, I say both.  The dressers are heavy enough as it is.  Add a drive shaft and the weight goes up quite a bit.  Reverse will help with that.
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FLSTFI Dave

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Re: 17 Shady Reasons Why Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Are Struggling
« Reply #25 on: January 05, 2022, 07:08:21 AM »

Not safe to buy anything that is HD new technology first year production, I learned that the hard way, even upgraded old technology is questionable. I’m sure there has to be some interesting changes to the bikes this year and somehow the market share that HD has on the touring bikers in the USA will continue. After all Indian sucked them in back at the race track and they did very well, the effort put forth was impressive in the results. 

A driveshaft is due on the baggers at the least, R&R a rear wheel on a goldwing is a pleasure compared to a HD FLH. Too much life left on the M8 patent for a change there. I anxiously await the unveiling of the 22's.  :drink:

22's are driving at the dealers now.  The touring models are the same old, same old.  The Antique frame from 2009. 

My Pan America is all new, and so far very good in the first 4 months 5000 miles.
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TN

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Re: 17 Shady Reasons Why Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Are Struggling
« Reply #26 on: January 05, 2022, 07:59:34 AM »

22's are driving at the dealers now.  The touring models are the same old, same old.  The Antique frame from 2009. 

My Pan America is all new, and so far very good in the first 4 months 5000 miles.


Dave, you are a beta tester and I wish you luck sir, the pan american does look like a fine machine, if I was thirty years younger I may consider one.
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Ironhorse

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Re: 17 Shady Reasons Why Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Are Struggling
« Reply #27 on: January 05, 2022, 10:54:20 AM »

22's are driving at the dealers now.  The touring models are the same old, same old.  The Antique frame from 2009. 

My Pan America is all new, and so far very good in the first 4 months 5000 miles.

REALLY,....same bike, different paint?!?!  No shaft drive, no reverse? No adjustable passenger floor boards?  Don't worry about being a "Beta Tester".  Everyone who rides a Harley is.
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FLSTFI Dave

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Re: 17 Shady Reasons Why Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Are Struggling
« Reply #28 on: January 06, 2022, 07:18:05 AM »


Dave, you are a beta tester and I wish you luck sir, the pan american does look like a fine machine, if I was thirty years younger I may consider one.

I was a Beta tester on the M8 also.  I ride a Harley, that's why I have at least two, need something when the other is broke.

Seriously, so far the Pan America is great.  Very good suspension, and very adjustable.  Very good brakes, Engine has lots of power.  The bike is the quickest stock Harley I have rode, its also the fastest stock harley I have rode.  This is also the best Handling and riding Harley I have had.  This is what happens when you have lots of suspension travel, and ride modes can make it plus for interstate or around town, and then set it very firm for cornering. 

Really was hoping to see some of the PA features bleed into the touring bikes.  Pan America Special has heated Grips, why not on a Road Glide special?  Especially seeing PAS is 9K less money.  PAS connects wirelessly to your head set, why cant the Road Glide special with out spending 400 for a WHIM? 
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TN

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Re: 17 Shady Reasons Why Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Are Struggling
« Reply #29 on: January 07, 2022, 07:58:37 AM »

What BMW is doing

https://apple.news/AbA2wOiXMR7a1txwcFCda5A


Added a youtube link     
« Last Edit: January 07, 2022, 08:34:36 AM by TN »
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