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[mr_magoo]

Dealer told me the other day that they will no longer be selling Buells that they want there own dealer network.

[Twolanerider]

Dealer told me the other day that they will no longer be selling Buells that they want there own dealer network.

If he's correct you've gotta wonder if that's a first step in making the brand stand on its own or a first step in making it fade away or (perhaps more likely) prepare it for more complete separation from HD so it can be sold off?

For what it's worth; to me the Buell line always looked out of place in the dealerships anyway.  Kind of the "Ugly Stepchild" section of the bike shop.  They probably would sell better in an environment dedicated to their own style of riding and rider and with a sales staff that isn't always going to be more interested in selling the big bikes just across the floor.  

Trouble is that it's really hard to believe the brand is mature enough or the demand great enough for them stand on their own.  No other sport bike brand seems to stand alone with any regularity.  You see them in shops with competitive brands side by side with a lot of regularity.  If HD is thinking about some separation of the HD product line from the Buell product line I'd bet a fair chunk of change that someone somewhere with a suit is thinking about selling Buell.

[mfgreen]

If he's correct you've gotta wonder if that's a first step in making the brand stand on its own or a first step in making it fade away or (perhaps more likely) prepare it for more complete separation from HD so it can be sold off?

For what it's worth; to me the Buell line always looked out of place in the dealerships anyway.  Kind of the "Ugly Stepchild" section of the bike shop.  They probably would sell better in an environment dedicated to their own style of riding and rider and with a sales staff that isn't always going to be more interested in selling the big bikes just across the floor.  

Trouble is that it's really hard to believe the brand is mature enough or the demand great enough for them stand on their own.  No other sport bike brand seems to stand alone with any regularity.  You see them in shops with competitive brands side by side with a lot of regularity.  If HD is thinking about some separation of the HD product line from the Buell product line I'd bet a fair chunk of change that someone somewhere with a suit is thinking about selling Buell.

2lr, what are you thinking?

H-D bought up a good portion of Buell as you know. The reasoning was that Buell (standing on its own before h_d bought them after they had already matured) was making a darn good bike using H-D drivetrain components.  
I would suspect H-D is looking for a larger share in the overall market sales  and  possible expansion of the share in the sportbike market.  Possible changes are the relationship with the Screamin' Eable brand...changes in engines and drivetrain components and a possible pursuit of further enhancing the market share by utilizing the V-Rod motor on a different platform.   Economically it creates the opportunity to sell more bikes (Buell) in the sportbike market if it is not marrried to the retro bikes and their current dealership setup that H-D mostly markets.  It will be a win/win situation for the investor.

[Twolanerider]

MFG, I explained what I'm thinking.  After having been subsumed in the HD dealer network for a few years now my fear is that it would be a more dificult proposition for the marque to stand on its own all at once; assuming it's in fact a stand alone dealer network that was being suggested.  Remember, we were only commenting based on the words of one particular dealer who may or may not have been well in the loop.  So it's just speculation for the fun of the discussion.

Just consider the capital side of things though.  All those buildings, all that shop tooling, all the staff, all that financing and all that insurance; separate and apart just for Buells  Worse is that it would a "from scratch" investment in many cases as their current dealer support system is within the HD shops.  I'm only saying that the current sales numbers supplied by HD for Buell as an adjunct of the larger operation make it seem to be a difficult financial exercise to establish a stand alone network.  If that's actually the case one of the possible reasons that such an idea might then make sense would be if it were going to be spun off.  Simply financial speculation.

MFG, I'm not suggesting it's going to happen.  Just doing the intellectual exercise for the fun of it and for purposes of discussion.  Basing it on the numbers that have been posted and what it would cost to open and run an independent shop (in a network nationwide).  You have to remember that part of Buells "profit" for the selling dealers now is that they don't have separate structural overhead for the line.  They're tucked in a corner someplace in the dealership that already existed for the HD line.  

I was only wondering how many current dealers would want to shell out the bucks for another building and staff just for the Buells?  I'd certainly want to crunch the numbers real real hard before biting that off.

MFG, if pondering the suggestion and wandering through the intellectual exercise in some way offended you I'm sorry.  That certainly wasn't my intent.  I'm sure you'll find something from someone somewhere to cut and paste in to counter any discussion you're not comfortable with though  [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

[mfgreen]

MFG, I explained what I'm thinking.  After having been subsumed in the HD dealer network for a few years now my fear is that it would be a more dificult proposition for the marque to stand on its own all at once; assuming it's in fact a stand alone dealer network that was being suggested.  Remember, we were only commenting based on the words of one particular dealer who may or may not have been well in the loop.  So it's just speculation for the fun of the discussion.

Just consider the capital side of things though.  All those buildings, all that shop tooling, all the staff, all that financing and all that insurance; separate and apart just for Buells  Worse is that it would a "from scratch" investment in many cases as their current dealer support system is within the HD shops.  I'm only saying that the current sales numbers supplied by HD for Buell as an adjunct of the larger operation make it seem to be a difficult financial exercise to establish a stand alone network.  If that's actually the case one of the possible reasons that such an idea might then make sense would be if it were going to be spun off.  Simply financial speculation.

MFG, I'm not suggesting it's going to happen.  Just doing the intellectual exercise for the fun of it and for purposes of discussion.  Basing it on the numbers that have been posted and what it would cost to open and run an independent shop (in a network nationwide).  You have to remember that part of Buells "profit" for the selling dealers now is that they don't have separate structural overhead for the line.  They're tucked in a corner someplace in the dealership that already existed for the HD line.  

I was only wondering how many current dealers would want to shell out the bucks for another building and staff just for the Buells?  I'd certainly want to crunch the numbers real real hard before biting that off.

MFG, if pondering the suggestion and wandering through the intellectual exercise in some way offended you I'm sorry.  That certainly wasn't my intent.  I'm sure you'll find something from someone somewhere to cut and paste in to counter any discussion you're not comfortable with though  [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

I have read your mindless wanderings and musings here and elsewhere.   Usually if you are going with a 50 caliber mouth as you so often do to take your potshots...you should have enough ammo (brains) to shoot it off.  Now that your ammunition supply has seemingly expired and depleted I suppose that we all must endure your tirade against me.  
Merry Christmas.

[Twolanerider]

MFG,
It wasn't a tirade but a request for actual discussion; nothing more.  A tirade would be that odd, perplexing, astonishingly long, startlingly angry and unnervingly rambling private message you sent me several weeks ago; or perhaps the one before that.  You remember, the ones I chose not to respond to in any way.  

As for reading my supposed diatribes "here and elsewhere," well, sir, this is the only forum or message board of this type that I'm ever on.   Playing here occasionally pretty much takes up any spare time to play online that I might have.  So you're a bit confused.  

I do subscribe to a mail list dealing with old classic Corvettes and another for old classic Thunderbirds.  But almost never post in either place.  The traffic on both is pretty extensive and I enjoy the information access and exchange.  But I rarely take time to post.  

Perhaps the nature of your notes to me has been based on your thinking I'm somebody you've run in to elsewhere when, in fact, I'm not.  You have a Merry Chirstmas though; and perhaps a warm toddy.

Don Carey

[mfgreen]

Thanks, same to you.
Mike Greenwald

[JCZ]

And to all a good Christmas!  (they don't have a little icon of a fat man in a red suit to put here.......but you get the idea)  [smiley=drink.gif] [smiley=drink.gif] [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

[110tHunDer]

2lane and MFG, you both have good points but I guess I'm on your side of the fence on this one, 2lane.  It seems the finances on this one would be tough to justify.  Unless they're thinking of selling them along side other, competitive brand(s) of sportbikes ( Japanese? [smiley=shocked2.gif] ), at first glance it seems like a recipe for disaster.

I mean, how many one-brand dealers besides H-D do you see these days?  A dealer just a few miles from my house sells and services Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki, and Triumph motorcycles along with Polaris snowmobiles (but not Victory bikes, go figure) and Ranger boats all out of the same store.  Another has Honda and Kawasaki along with Sea-Doo watercraft.  It's just tough to believe that Buell would want to divorce itself from H-D's extensive dealer network and go it alone because of the capital investment, training of service and sales staff, and resulting on-going overhead costs involved with a one-brand franchise.  But, then again, stranger things have happened. [smiley=nixweiss.gif]

P.S. JC, here's that santa you were looking for:  [smiley=xmas.gif]

[Twolanerider]

P.S. JC, here's that santa you were looking for:

[mfgreen]

2lane and MFG, you both have good points but I guess I'm on your side of the fence on this one, 2lane.

[Tony - www.1700cc.co.uk]

For what it's worth; to me the Buell line always looked out of place in the dealerships anyway.

[Tony - www.1700cc.co.uk]