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[hard10]

The Wall Street Journal ran a story today about Harley Davidson Financial Services. It appears that the credit crunch is affecting HD's ability to make loans to bikers and "most of them do finance". I was surprised that "most" Harleys were financed (don't ask me why, I did). Figuring that most Screamin Eagle's were more expensive than a regular HD, I was wondering if we fall into the "most" category? Any other thoughts or comments?

[Jock]

Old School...I was taught if you can not pay for it now you will not be able to pay for it later...

 

[SBB]

Old School...I was taught if you can not pay for it now you will not be able to pay for it later...

 

Agreed!

 

[SBB]

I tried to cast two votes.


Didn't work.


Was voting for #5 and # 7


Wouldn't take both so I had to settle for just one. 

 

[hard10]

Chip, I was hoping you were just going to give me one of your old bikes. 

[Jock]

Chip, I was hoping you were just going to give me one of your old bikes. 

 

Need a shipping address?

[SBB]

Chip, I was hoping you were just going to give me one of your old bikes. 

AJ

Be realistic!
If I give you one then you will have to pay the taxes, the tag, the insurance, etc...
Then you will have to maintain it, you know, cam 2 110, oil changes, (I do that every 2K) tires, etc...
Wouldn't it be easier if I just gave you the code to the garage and when the security company calls I will say it's OK for you to be there.
I will give you the security code for the key cabinet so opening it will not notify the police.
The bikes sit there full of gas, you just unplug the battery tender(s) and your good to go.
Smile for the camera's as you drive out.
Just keep the LoJack fob in your pocket for the older ones.
They will call me if you forget.
And have a good time!

And BTW, if you have a spare Indian I can test ride, just leave the keys in the key cabinet!

 

[hard10]

AJ

Be realistic!
If I give you one then you will have to pay the taxes, the tag, the insurance, etc...
Then you will have to maintain it, you know, cam 2 110, oil changes, (I do that every 2K) tires, etc...
Wouldn't it be easier if I just gave you the code to the garage and when the security company calls I will say it's OK for you to be there.
I will give you the security code for the key cabinet so opening it will not notify the police.
The bikes sit there full of gas, you just unplug the battery tender(s) and your good to go.
Smile for the camera's as you drive out.
Just keep the LoJack fob in your pocket for the older ones.
They will call me if you forget.
And have a good time!

And BTW, if you have a spare Indian I can test ride, just leave the keys in the key cabinet!

 

 
Man, what are friends for! I suppose I have to wash them when I bring them back? I guess I could get Linda to do that though.
& you may have a chance for that test ride by RibFest.

[SBB]

Man, what are friends for! I suppose I have to wash them when I bring them back? I guess I could get Linda to do that though.
& you may have a chance for that test ride by RibFest.

No, No, No!

You have the fun.

Only I clean the bikes....even Nancy's.
There are rules we live by and that's one of them.

 

[hard10]

No, No, No!

You have the fun.

Only I clean the bikes....even Nancy's.
There are rules we live by and that's one of them.

 

Chip, I don't care what fired00d & Midnight Rider (& Spiderman &...) say about you.  You 'da man.

[SBB]

Chip, I don't care what fired00d & Midnight Rider (& Spiderman &...) say about you.  You 'da man.

All those guys are FOS when it comes to politics but everything else they say about me is probably true!

Wasn't there a poll about that?

 

[hard10]

Back on topic...
Charlie posted this in another thread:

That's amazing...he wants 3K over MSRP for a previous year CVO Ultra...I've never wished anything bad on anyone, but I can help but hope he gets stuck with all of those CVOs.  I guess there must be so much disposable income down there, that he feels even with the economy tanking, that he can still rip everyone off, even though Harley sales are on the decline.  I don't get it.  

  

Just to answer the question, according to the WSJ, "For the first nine months, Harley-Davidson shipped 226,898 bikes, down 9% from a year earlier."

[Jock]

All those guys are FOS when it comes to politics but everything else they say about me is probably true!

Help an ole man out...FOS?

[hard10]

Help an ole man out...FOS?

Full...

[Jock]

Full...

Dug?

 

[SBB]

Help an ole man out...FOS?

FOS

Having an extra heavy load of excrement.

 

[Jock]

FOS

Having an extra heavy load of excrement.

 

DUG?  Now!

Thanks

[RedDevil]

Back on topic...
Charlie posted this in another thread:

Just to answer the question, according to the WSJ, "For the first nine months, Harley-Davidson shipped 226,898 bikes, down 9% from a year earlier."

I still don't get it though...how does FB do it down there.  Are there that many people running around down there with wads of money flowing from every orifice in their body that they are willing to pay that much just to get a bike from FB?  Just don't make sense to me...but what do I know?  

  

[SBB]

I still don't get it though...how does FB do it down there.  Are there that many people running around down there with wads of money flowing from every orifice in their body that they are willing to pay that much just to get a bike from FB?  Just don't make sense to me...but what do I know?  

  

What do we know?
Not his secret for sure!
Have been there only once, that was enough.
One of those glossy ordertakers walked up to me and tried to sell me an 08 SEUC.
I asked how much.
Wasn't there a poll documenting my response!

 

[Jock]

I still don't get it though...how does FB do it down there.  Are there that many people running around down there with wads of money flowing from every orifice in their body that they are willing to pay that much just to get a bike from FB?  Just don't make sense to me...but what do I know?  

  

I can not speak for others but I have never purchased from FB and would not pay his asking price.

[hard10]

I still don't get it though...how does FB do it down there.  Are there that many people running around down there with wads of money flowing from every orifice in their body that they are willing to pay that much just to get a bike from FB?  Just don't make sense to me...but what do I know?  

  

It's marketing at it's finest. They wine & dine the top customers and in turn those are the ones who buy. I heard a "story" (read rumor) that he flew a customer in on his plane, the one with all the HD logos, for bike week just to make the sale. Obviously it is working for the customers he brings in.

[MIKEYTEE]

It's marketing at it's finest. They wine & dine the top customers and in turn those are the ones who buy. I heard a "story" (read rumor) that he flew a customer in on his plane, the one with all the HD logos, for bike week just to make the sale. Obviously it is working for the customers he brings in.

I didn't buy his overpriced bike! 
Of course he didn't fly me down there for bike week either.
Mike
 

[RedDevil]

What do we know?
Not his secret for sure!
Have been there only once, that was enough.
One of those glossy ordertakers walked up to me and tried to sell me an 08 SEUC.
I asked how much.
Wasn't there a poll documenting my response!

 

I'd have loved to have seen the look on the salesperson's face when you gave him the response Chip.     I'll bet you did us all proud and gave him your best #1 Chithead response.   

   

[RedDevil]

It's marketing at it's finest. They wine & dine the top customers and in turn those are the ones who buy. I heard a "story" (read rumor) that he flew a customer in on his plane, the one with all the HD logos, for bike week just to make the sale. Obviously it is working for the customers he brings in.

AJ, Unless I have Grant's flying out of my butt crack at a rapid rate, there isn't any plane ride on any fancy painted plane that's going to get me to pay $10K over MSRP for anything.  That does explain how FB pays for that plane though.   

   

[hard10]

AJ, Unless I have Grant's flying out of my butt crack at a rapid rate, there isn't any plane ride on any fancy painted plane that's going to get me to pay $10K over MSRP for anything.  That does explain how FB pays for that plane though.   

   

That's the difference. There are people out there that impulse buy without doing any of the research that "we all" do. I am referring of course to everyone here! Those that frequent  research a purchase before buying will know what to expect. Impulse buying is a very common practice that marketers rely on. That's why the grocery stores put candy and magazines at the check out counter.

[Twolanerider]

I tried to cast two votes.


Didn't work.


Was voting for #5 and # 7


Wouldn't take both so I had to settle for just one. 

 

I could vote #7 and it was actually correct .

[HogBreath]

The rumor about a guy who works for me is...

He had bad credit and the local banks wouldn't loan him any money
He wanted a HD bad, and he found a 2005 (I think) low rider for $11,500 or $12,500 (I can't remember)
A HD dealer made him a deal and ran it through HD finance
The payments are only $350 a month
But, it's for 7 years.


That's $29,500 total pay back. Reverse amortization tells me interest rate is well over 20%. He probably even financed taxes and first insurance payment. I'm in the wrong business. How do you help someone like this? I could finance it for him at 12% and he'd have it paid off in three years. 12% would be better than mutual funds right now. As long as he didn't wreck the bike, or quit working and go broke. It's pretty sad actually.

[ice6900]

I tried to cast two votes.

paid 50% up front

[grc]

The rumor about a guy who works for me is...

He had bad credit and the local banks wouldn't loan him any money
He wanted a HD bad, and he found a 2005 (I think) low rider for $11,500 or $12,500 (I can't remember)
A HD dealer made him a deal and ran it through HD finance
The payments are only $350 a month
But, it's for 7 years.


That's $29,500 total pay back. Reverse amortization tells me interest rate is well over 20%. He probably even financed taxes and first insurance payment. I'm in the wrong business. How do you help someone like this? I could finance it for him at 12% and he'd have it paid off in three years. 12% would be better than mutual funds right now. As long as he didn't wreck the bike, or quit working and go broke. It's pretty sad actually.

Sadly, that's what has been happening to the masses out there.  Income stagnant, constant marketing exposure convincing everyone they are dog doo if they don't have this, that, and everything in between, and then here comes the huckster savior in the cheap suit offering "easy credit" with low monthly payments (for the rest of your life).  Hard to understand why we currently have a fiscal crisis in this country.

How do you "undo" the highly successful marketing that constantly bombards people these days, convincing them that all they have to do to be happy and successful is to buy this product or that product, no money down and no payments until 2010?  I feel like reaching out and shaking some of the idiots I see, but then I realize it wouldn't do any good.  They don't want reality, they want the feel good world they see on TV.  This is one reason I don't agree with bailing out folks who signed mortgages they could in no way, shape, or form ever afford.  Bailing them out is a slap in the face of those who did it the right way, and it perpetuates the entire idea of instant gratification regardless of ability to pay, just "charge it". 

Jerry

[RedFXR2]

About the FB phenonema.  As a resident of FL, I can see a couple of things.  One- there really are a bunch of folks down here that have semi-serious money.  Not Donald Trump or Warren Buffet, mind you--they'd know better even if it was just pocket change to them.  But folks who have enough to blow on overpriced status symbols.  As in boats and cars, to them, the more they paid for something, the more prestigious it is.  Never mind how much less they could have paid, or what it's really worth.  Kind of hard for most folks to understand, IMO, but I've seen it at work.  Two- FB is right there at Daytona where the market is already skewed by event fever.  I'd bet that a lot of his annual sales occur during the two big Daytona events, as opposed to the rest of the year.  People get caught up in the event and do things that they would never do back in Des Moines, or Piscataway.  By the time they sober up, or lose the vacation mood, they've agreed to the deal and are back home with the payment book.  All they tell folks is "Look what I got at Bike Week."

I've never run into a rider down here that has bought a bike from FB, or would admit it, anyway.  Everyone shares the "How does he do it?" thought.  And most swear they would n't do business with him if it was a screaming deal.  So if they're not lying, he's doing his business both off of travelers and the semi-wealthy, and I'm not likely to fun into either in my life, anyway.

I actually sort of have to hand it to FB.  He's made it big and is a guest speaker at the Business school at his alma mater, U. of Southern Mississippi.  A lot of entrepreneur's role model.  I mean, as in all capitalism, if you could sell something that costs you $20k for $30K or 40K, which would you rather do?

[RedFXR2]

This is one reason I don't agree with bailing out folks who signed mortgages they could in no way, shape, or form ever afford.  Bailing them out is a slap in the face of those who did it the right way, and it perpetuates the entire idea of instant gratification regardless of ability to pay, just "charge it". 

Right on, Jerry.  I saw on CNNmoney.com where Bank of America is going to offer complete mortgage makeover, even includinig the mortgage amount, to those who are facing foreclosure.  Down here in FL, I see all kinds of failed speculators who will profit from the bailout at my expense.  My wife and I were sitting here last night thinking we should have bought several more homes in zero down, interest only ARM's if we had known we could get a large amount of the purchase price forgiven by the government.  But we knew that would overextend us so we didn't.  Now we get to send our tax dollars to other folks, so they can keep their investment properties.

[Sean M Cary]

None of the above for the SERK - but when I bought my KLR (much less) I put it on the Amex, got the cash back, and then moved the balance to a 0% and paid it off before the grace period ended.

[Jock]

None of the above for the SERK - but when I bought my KLR (much less) I put it on the Amex, got the cash back, and then moved the balance to a 0% and paid it off before the grace period ended.

I hear ya...I tried that twice but the dealers would not allow it since I already received a CASH price.  Most bank cards have a charge of 1.5%-3% to the customer.  I believe Discovery and AMEX have the potential to be even higher depending upon who they utilize.


Good For You!!!

[HogBreath]

I wrote a check for my bikes. 

[Twolanerider]

I wrote a check for my bikes. 

Me too.   Wish I still had that guy's checkbook. 

[56FLE]

Bought it with a credit card and paid off the credit card at the end of the month. I wanted the airline points the card gave me. 

[ice6900]

free frights, thats 2 fly for,  double bonus

[hogasm]

Old School...I was taught if you can not pay for it now you will not be able to pay for it later...

 

Same here......save for what you want later, you will make alot of sacrifices if you want something bad enough

[hogasm]

Bought it with a credit card and paid off the credit card at the end of the month. I wanted the airline points the card gave me. 

That is what I had to do. Payed for it on the credit card.
When I went to pick it up my check book fell into my fishing boot...actually under the Dr. Schools pad in the boot. I could not find my check book...and I tore the truck apart. The bank told me to just put it on my card and that there would be no fees for the dealer....I did get the points though.
Paid it off when the statement came in.....would hate to see what the fees would be on $30000

[56FLE]

That is what I had to do. Payed for it on the credit card.
When I went to pick it up my check book fell into my fishing boot...actually under the Dr. Schools pad in the boot. I could not find my check book...and I tore the truck apart. The bank told me to just put it on my card and that there would be no fees for the dealer....I did get the points though.
Paid it off when the statement came in.....would hate to see what the fees would be on $30000

 

You got that right, I didn't what to see the interest charges for late payment, made the payment the first day I got the statement.

[SPIDERMAN]

You know, this site means a lot to me an I like, admire, respect and enjoy it's members and being a part of it. But I have to say, at times when the issue of money comes up, I feel somehow less equal than a lot of people Why ? Because I do buy things on credit. I do use credit cards, I do carry a balance on some of those. And I don't think that makes me a bad person or that I'm part of the reason for the failing economy. I have always paid my bills - on time and in full. I expect that if I can come up with $10k that isn't needed in other areas of my life, I will take a loan from H-D Credit and buy a new motorcycle to leave in Maine. I thinking lately that perhaps rather than buy a new 09 SERG, I find a dealer that has a nice used CVO model I like. Maybe something in the $15k range. In any event, use of credit will be involved and I will not feel ashamed to do so. Sorry if this seems like a rant, but it's been weighing on me for some time and I am making some clear the air posts today - - - come what may. I am nothing if I am not open, candid and honest in my feelings about things.

B B

[Spoiled!]

Purchased the cherry using our home equity line, sold the SG, and then dipped into savings and paid the rest.

[SBB]

I wrote a check for my bikes. 

ditto

[miker]

Credit is fine for those who can use it rationally like yourself BB.
Sometimes I will borrow at x% if I have something else paying me over that, then it is offset and keeps my money with me at x+.

I have a balance now for all the HD stuff I bought last week.   Like the pricey t/p removal kit that I am thinking I won't use cause I like just chucking stuff in the t/p.  I think one saddle bad is still empty!  

[FLYNDYNA]

I put down 20%, financed the rest through HF. They are letting me ride it, clean it and service it for five years, and will then give up ownership and let me keep it...

[bilbo]

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/08_43/b4105054873100.htm

[Screamin]

Interesting read. I paid cash, screw it - let's ride.

[SBB]

Interesting read. I paid cash, screw it - let's ride.

Same here!
Having gone thru difficult times in the distant past I learned that cash is the only way.
You may not be able to afford the tag or the insurance but you never have to worry about someone trying to come get it.
It can always sit in the garage and be waxed!

 

[WFP]

Threw it on a Credit Card to get the Cert. of Ownership (no Lein Holder)
Paid off the Credit Card with our HELoC before incurring charges
Paid of the HELoC in four months

[kb]

The credit squeeze has had a big impact on my income. I knew the boom years weren't going to last forever. I have Ben through a lot of good and bad times .These are about as bad as I can remember. I hope we have some relief soon KB

[SPIDERMAN]

You know, this site means a lot to me an I like, admire, respect and enjoy it's members and being a part of it. But I have to say, at times when the issue of money comes up, I feel somehow less equal than a lot of people Why ? Because I do buy things on credit. I do use credit cards, I do carry a balance on some of those. And I don't think that makes me a bad person or that I'm part of the reason for the failing economy. I have always paid my bills - on time and in full. I expect that if I can come up with $10k that isn't needed in other areas of my life, I will take a loan from H-D Credit and buy a new motorcycle to leave in Maine. I thinking lately that perhaps rather than buy a new 09 SERG, I find a dealer that has a nice used CVO model I like. Maybe something in the $15k range. In any event, use of credit will be involved and I will not feel ashamed to do so. Sorry if this seems like a rant, but it's been weighing on me for some time and I am making some clear the air posts today - - - come what may. I am nothing if I am not open, candid and honest in my feelings about things.

B B

I'm sorry, was this post taken as an open invitation for everyone to let me know how much better off than me they are ?

Thanks so very much, that's just so effing classy of all of you. I mean 1st rate brotherhood at it's finest.

B B

[kb]

I'm sorry, was this post taken as an open invitation for everyone to let me know how much better off than me they are ?

Thanks so very much, that's just so effing classy of all of you. I mean 1st rate brotherhood at it's finest.

B B

   There are millions of people who have a lot more money than I but there are very few any happier than I. Just because someone has more money than me doesn't make them better off..KB

[RedDevil]

I'm sorry, was this post taken as an open invitation for everyone to let me know how much better off than me they are ?

Thanks so very much, that's just so effing classy of all of you. I mean 1st rate brotherhood at it's finest.

B B

Don't sweat it Brian....I'm in the same boat....the truck, CVO, and RV are all financed...I'm not ashamed to admit it...If I waited to pay cash for the big things in life, I'd never be able to get the big things...so I don't sweat it...like you I have an almost perfect credit score and always pay my bills on time and never miss one...and you know what, I still enjoy life just as much as those that can pay cash for everything... 

   

[HUBBARD]

Here's the deal, guys.  Ol' Maudie is paid for, lock stock, and barrell, if you get my drift.  Was, since day one.  Probably somewhere around 60 Large, all in, considering everything, is what I have in that Ol' Motorsickle.  A small price for all the fun I've had.  That said, I'd do it again, and probably will, to experience the same fun all over again.  Money was meant to spend, pure and simple.  As long as I can smile and talk, I will always make a $.  Ain't too many Motorsickles out there that will pass that that Ol' Ultra Classic, either.  Ask anybody that has had the opportunity to try.    May not be a CVO, but that Ol' Harley will Stroll.  There endeth the lesson.  Later--HUBBARD   

[Unbalanced]

Ole Brother Hubbard,

That said, I'd do it again, and probably will, to experience the same fun all over again. 

What do you mean PROBABLY WILL ? ? ?

Be fair to ole Maudie now she is old and tired, she has been passed, she has been split, and as many times as Otis has been up and around that ole Girl maybe it is time to retire her completely and not just replace the motor again  

I look forward to seeing you and your 131 surprise in March   or is it really still a surprise! haha.   
           

I think this lesson was already TAUGHT.

[SPIDERMAN]

Ole Brother Hubbard,


What do you mean PROBABLY WILL ? ? ?

Be fair to ole Maudie now she is old and tired, she has been passed, she has been split, and as many times as Otis has been up and around that ole Girl maybe it is time to retire her completely and not just replace the motor again  

I look forward to seeing you and your 131 surprise in March   or is it really still a surprise! haha.   
           

I think this lesson was already TAUGHT.

I refuse to ever again be chastised for taking a thread off topic after reading the above post in light of the subject of this thread.

B B

[Unbalanced]

Brian,

Eventually this will get back on topic, they usually do at some point.

Besides it was bait laid out there to be had.

[SPIDERMAN]

Brian,

Eventually this will get back on topic, they usually do at some point.

Besides it was bait laid out there to be had.

Harry
         The question in my mind here though is who's the fish and who's the fisherman ?

B B

[Unbalanced]

Brian,

He hasn't replied to the bait so he aint on the hook, thus we cant qualify him as a fish, YET.   Please continue stirring, we might just get a reaction.

[hard10]

Brian,

He hasn't replied to the bait so he aint on the hook, thus we cant qualify him as a fish, YET.   Please continue stirring, we might just get a reaction.

To take this way off topic (I can do that, I started this thread!) I see you have a new motorcycle in your avatar. Okay, I guess we can bring it back around by your telling us how you traded the SEUC2 in on it.

[SPIDERMAN]

Brian,

He hasn't replied to the bait so he aint on the hook, thus we cant qualify him as a fish, YET.   Please continue stirring, we might just get a reaction.

shhhhhh I ain't stirrin, I'm jiggin and that ain't legal so hush up 

B b

[Unbalanced]

AJ,

Might jinx it, so can't comment until the deal is completed.     Hopefully fingers crossed next weekend.  Boy AJ you caught that one pretty fast and they were saying you were slow ...   ohh wait maybe it was late