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[spydglide]

They are the same unless you do a conversion to the 07+ hydro style. The second set of tensioners should last better than the first as the chain has been "polished" by the first set.

That's my belief also.....I'm seriously considering just replacing my tensioners when the 1st set wears to that point and keeping the same chain and hopefully put another 60K + miles on them.  Some of the chains had very sharp edges....will almost cut your finger.....no wonder the tensioners wear prematurely on those.  spyder

[sbse]

Fired00d  Could you tell about how much it cost to upgrade these parts.  TIA

[Fired00d]

Fired00d  Could you tell about how much it cost to upgrade these parts.  TIA

It was right around 2K+/- for parts, install, and dyno tuning.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[Herko]

Gents,
Maybe I can shed some additional light on the current cam chain tensioner system vs. the 99-06 system.

The new tensioner pad material is totally different and much stronger than the previous version. It also has a built in lubricity. And, the new pad material does not have the void (air bubble) problem during manufacturing that is found with the ‘99-’06 tensioners. The outdated adage of "plastic is plastic" does not fit with today's materials.

The new tensioner pad-to-chain tension is controlled via oil pressure at a logical pressure in which remains virtually constant. The old style tensioners apply inconsistent spring pressure that is excessive from the beginning. This uncontrolled overkill tension contributes to the premature tensioner wear commonly found on the ’99 - ’06 models.

The new high quality roller chains are made by Regina, a very prominent chain manufacturer. They're uniquely made via "roll forming" the plates from round wire instead of stamping them from flat stock like on the 99-06 Morse chains. These new chains are surface-smooth from the beginning.

As a bonus, the improved oil pump employed with the hydra-chain system not only produces more pressure, but more importantly it has an even higher increase in the scavenge capability.

Wear reports of the new tensioners are very encouraging. 50, 60, thousand miles and higher (as the 06 FXD's and all 07 and up Big Twin models become high mileage veterans) with only witness marks on the pads. No longer do we have to worry yellow chunks of debris going through and/or lodging in critical areas of our engines.

Quiet operation: The design features of the hydra-chain system have proven to be one of the quietest systems available.

Crankshaft pinion runout: Too much crankshaft pinion run-out for the gear drive cams? The trend for the new bikes is staying with the chain driven cams. THis is the case also even if runout was in tolerance for gear drives.

For the 99-06 bikes, the new hydra-chain cam conversion is a great (and many say a better) solution. Cost comparisons show that the hydra-chain conversion is very economical as well. And again, the improved oil pump is icing on the cake.

Cheers,
Herko

[Trapperdog]

When my 07 went in for the"campaign" at 20K, four months ago, I had them replace the cams with HD 251's. Turns out the tensioner pad was toast and was replaced under warranty. This also meant most of the cam labor replacement was free. I also had them replace the inner primary with a chrome one and found the inner Bering was bad. Also free labor for replacement. Had them put on some freedome pipes while everything was appart for free labor also. Had to pay retail on parts (except pipes from hd-dude) but less than $100 on labor. Good timing on my part and a good dealer!

[Herko]

"...the tensioner pad was toast and was replaced..."

The pad. Curious which one is being referred to... primary, secondary?
Do you have a pic or the old part by chance?

[FUZZNUTS]

Gents,
Maybe I can shed some additional light on the current cam chain tensioner system vs. the 99-06 system.

The new tensioner pad material is totally different and much stronger than the previous version. It also has a built in lubricity. And, the new pad material does not have the void (air bubble) problem during manufacturing that is found with the ‘99-’06 tensioners. The outdated adage of "plastic is plastic" does not fit with today's materials.

The new tensioner pad-to-chain tension is controlled via oil pressure at a logical pressure in which remains virtually constant. The old style tensioners apply inconsistent spring pressure that is excessive from the beginning. This uncontrolled overkill tension contributes to the premature tensioner wear commonly found on the ’99 - ’06 models.

The new high quality roller chains are made by Regina, a very prominent chain manufacturer. They're uniquely made via "roll forming" the plates from round wire instead of stamping them from flat stock like on the 99-06 Morse chains. These new chains are surface-smooth from the beginning.

As a bonus, the improved oil pump employed with the hydra-chain system not only produces more pressure, but more importantly it has an even higher increase in the scavenge capability.

Wear reports of the new tensioners are very encouraging. 50, 60, thousand miles and higher (as the 06 FXD's and all 07 and up Big Twin models become high mileage veterans) with only witness marks on the pads. No longer do we have to worry yellow chunks of debris going through and/or lodging in critical areas of our engines.

Quiet operation: The design features of the hydra-chain system have proven to be one of the quietest systems available.

Crankshaft pinion runout: Too much crankshaft pinion run-out for the gear drive cams? The trend for the new bikes is staying with the chain driven cams. THis is the case also even if runout was in tolerance for gear drives.

For the 99-06 bikes, the new hydra-chain cam conversion is a great (and many say a better) solution. Cost comparisons show that the hydra-chain conversion is very economical as well. And again, the improved oil pump is icing on the cake.

Cheers,
Herko

Are the Regina tensioners a HD stocked part? Or do I have to go to a speed shop .

[Trapperdog]

"...the tensioner pad was toast and was replaced..."

The pad. Curious which one is being referred to... primary, secondary?
Do you have a pic or the old part by chance?

I did not ask since it was a warentee item but just assumed it was the primary cam tensioner   Checked my box of old parts and it's not there. I guess I was just too happy to get some free work done without a hassle for a change.

[Herko]

Are the Regina tensioners a HD stocked part? Or do I have to go to a speed shop .

The new tensioners were designed by Regina and are made by Harley via a German vendor).
Yes, stocked by Harley.
Just to clarify though, the new tensioners require the new camplate etc. etc.
It's not a direct (old tensioner for new tensioner) swap out.
It's a new cam chain "system".

[Talon]

A local shop took a cam plate and built a frame with bearings for the other end of the cams with a pre 07 spring loaded tensoner setup with about 500 miles on them and built a display. They built a small handle you can turn and see the difference between the old chain tensoner and the have another with gears. There is no oil on them, but their pretty hard to turn, the gear spins quite freely. I can imagine the power loss from the old style spinning at 2k or higher.

[Twolanerider]

A local shop took a cam plate and built a frame with bearings for the other end of the cams with a pre 07 spring loaded tensoner setup with about 500 miles on them and built a display. They built a small handle you can turn and see the difference between the old chain tensoner and the have another with gears. There is no oil on them, but their pretty hard to turn, the gear spins quite freely. I can imagine the power loss from the old style spinning at 2k or higher.

The Feuling company makes a display like that too.  Have seen their display on several parts counters the last year or so.  Their display says the difference in ease to spin is because of their oil pump though.  Gotta love marketing .

[VANAMAL]

or you could just put in a gear drive

[timo482]

today hd just put up a "upgrade" - might do the job, who knows its a real new item..

cam plate, chains, tensioners, oil pump.

less than 500 bux


to

[TallyClassic]

Is there a part number or promotion number for this?  I've been agonizing for 6 months on what to do about my cam shoes/pump/cams.  I've got about $2K to spend this winter, but also want to do the 21" wheel up front.  The extra power from a 575 cam would be fun, but the bike is pretty fun now and stays even with a buddy's Victory.  The oil pump is deemed a necessity.  HD's new plate and roller chains seems to be the best comprimise in getting rid of the stiff springs.
Does anyone have objections to the HD push rods and lifters they'll be putting in?

[Twolanerider]

Is there a part number or promotion number for this?  I've been agonizing for 6 months on what to do about my cam shoes/pump/cams.  I've got about $2K to spend this winter, but also want to do the 21" wheel up front.  The extra power from a 575 cam would be fun, but the bike is pretty fun now and stays even with a buddy's Victory.  The oil pump is deemed a necessity.  HD's new plate and roller chains seems to be the best comprimise in getting rid of the stiff springs.
Does anyone have objections to the HD push rods and lifters they'll be putting in?

It is 25284-08.  Check this link for more info on the parts kit:

http://www.harley-davidson.com/gma/gma_product.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524448773018&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302491575&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=2534374302491575&bmUID=1233076277895&bmLocale=en_US

Shouldn't have any concern with the newer style SE adjustable pushrods.  Lifters haven't been a worry either.