www.CVOHARLEY.com
CVO Technical => Milwaukee-Eight => Topic started by: jeroenelectrum on September 26, 2018, 03:07:28 AM
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i have a 2019 roadglide cvo red pepper.... yesterday picked it up by the dealer after 120 km (74miles) it lost all power and sumped
took it in the dealership they told me it is the same problem with the oil pump
i am now at a point i just want to leave the bike at the dealer and buy something without all this sumping etc etc @#$$%%
who has got a sumped engine and is it fixed? does it hurt the new engine when it once got sumped?
thanks
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Wow. Just curious ..Did you do a stage 1-2or three or is the engine std out of the box???
Very disappointing
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Unbelievable.... Honestly would of thought that HD would've figured this out by now.... Two years in and there flagship bikes still doing this (some not all) not acceptable . Hope it all works out for you sir.... Good luck..
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engine was stock
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i have a 2019 roadglide cvo red pepper.... yesterday picked it up by the dealer after 120 km (74miles) it lost all power and sumped
took it in the dealership they told me it is the same problem with the oil pump
i am now at a point i just want to leave the bike at the dealer and buy something without all this sumping etc etc @#$$%%
who has got a sumped engine and is it fixed? does it hurt the new engine when it once got sumped?
thanks
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i have a 2019 roadglide cvo red pepper.... yesterday picked it up by the dealer after 120 km (74miles) it lost all power and sumped
took it in the dealership they told me it is the same problem with the oil pump
i am now at a point i just want to leave the bike at the dealer and buy something without all this sumping etc etc @#$$%%
who has got a sumped engine and is it fixed? does it hurt the new engine when it once got sumped?
thanks
That is sad to hear about your 2019 CVO. I traded my 2018 CVO stage 4 Street Glide for a 2019 Road Glide CVO because of sumping issues.
3 massive power loss occasions , no help from the dealer ! took my loss and moved on .
I put a stage 2 power cam and full Screaming Eagle exhaust on my 2019 CVO
400mi no issues yet
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The amount of internal damage will depend on several factors, including how long you rode it after it started to sump, how hot everything got, and the amount of oil starvation. I wouldn't be surprised to see piston and cylinder wall scuffing at the very least, but only a thorough inspection will tell the tale. Don't accept the "change the oil pump and give it back to you" response Harley has used in the past on some customers, insist on a full inspection.
So much for the claims they fixed the problem for the 2019's. I just noticed another post about a 2019 sumping and puking the oil at around 4k miles. This is ridiculous.
Jerry
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This sumping has now moved beyond sad. This is now starting to move into the region of intolerable. Once a company moves their $40-45k products into the category of “intolerable”, look for class legal action to begin.
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And the MoCo wants to produce an adventure bike so you can ride off into the middle of Alaska, far from any dealership, only depending on the reliability of the machine. Sure.
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And the MoCo wants to produce an adventure bike so you can ride off into the middle of Alaska, far from any dealership, only depending on the reliability of the machine. Sure.
Yeah, HD figures at least the Adventure bike owners will be so far out in the wilderness they won't be able to post about their issues. All part of the plan!! LOL
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Indian is looking better and better. They had a few issues with their 116 big bore kit. They stopped sale of them. Got Carillo involved to help them engineer some new connecting rods and get the weights and balances right with new rods and pistons. Then they recalled all of the kits they had sold whether the owners had issues or not and upgraded them under warranty whether aftermarket tuners were installed or not!!!!!! I am hearing they even included a 500 mile break in oil change on Indian's dime. This is all info gathered from an Indian rider's forum and not a dealer.
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Oh boy this is not what a new owner wants to hear. I bought my 2019 last week less than 400 Miles on it. No issues nor have I expected any.
My question is: what was the OP doing when this occurred?? Just cruising down the highway? Sitting at a light? What were the temps?
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The amount of internal damage will depend on several factors, including how long you rode it after it started to sump, how hot everything got, and the amount of oil starvation. I wouldn't be surprised to see piston and cylinder wall scuffing at the very least, but only a thorough inspection will tell the tale. Don't accept the "change the oil pump and give it back to you" response Harley has used in the past on some customers, insist on a full inspection.
So much for the claims they fixed the problem for the 2019's. I just noticed another post about a 2019 sumping and puking the oil at around 4k miles. This is ridiculous.
Jerry
While we have to take some information with a grain of salt and make decisions on real issues. I have to ask, don’t you think 4K Miles on a 2019 model might be a bit of an exaggeration and if it is true don’t you think that. Ike had to have been ridden pretty hard to get there in mileage??
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While we have to take some information with a grain of salt and make decisions on real issues. I have to ask, don’t you think 4K Miles on a 2019 model might be a bit of an exaggeration and if it is true don’t you think that. Ike had to have been ridden pretty hard to get there in mileage??
I put over 10k miles on my Limited in less than 40 days. 4 K miles in a month is easy. Texas to California to Wash DC to TX is 6600 miles. Did it in 23 days.
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Yep to Cali and back would be a easy 4k
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While we have to take some information with a grain of salt and make decisions on real issues. I have to ask, don’t you think 4K Miles on a 2019 model might be a bit of an exaggeration and if it is true don’t you think that. Ike had to have been ridden pretty hard to get there in mileage??
I think the other guys answered your question about the approximate 4k miles on a 2019. We see plenty of bikes that rack up a big bunch of miles in a short time around here. And it doesn't matter how "hard" the bikes are ridden, the engine should not sump. I know of absolutely no other company running dry sump engines that has this problem, and dry sump oiling systems have been around a very long time. It's not rocket science, the principles involved are very basic science, and there is absolutely no excuse for Harley to be having this problem in the first place, much less three years in a row and counting. If they can't figure it out in-house, they need to bite the bullet and hire outside help. And if they don't want to lose even more sales in the US than they already have, they need to find and fix the root cause of the problem ASAP, then make sure they take care of all the folks who have earlier models with suspect engines. Management at the MoCo needs to get their collective heads out of their asses.
Jerry
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Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be any indication that HD is going to do any sort of voluntary recall, based on how they have handled previous design issues and how they have handled the M8 issues to date. Unless a class action lawsuit is filed (which some believe is quite possible) HD will deal with these as quietly as possible, and take full advantage of the new warranty clauses in the process.
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Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be any indication that HD is going to do any sort of voluntary recall, based on how they have handled previous design issues and how they have handled the M8 issues to date. Unless a class action lawsuit is filed (which some believe is quite possible) HD will deal with these as quietly as possible, and take full advantage of the new warranty clauses in the process.
That’s why I’m glad to be out of my Frankenstein 2017 CVO Limited. I gave it my best and fought hard to make the bike right after 4 engines and various other warranty covered issues. And while things were finally running right I just never had confidence again in the bike. I’m thankful I no longer own it and have to be concerned with these issues returning.
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I hear ya. Been there done that with a previous vehicle.
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me again, shame on me.
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i have a 2019 roadglide cvo red pepper.... yesterday picked it up by the dealer after 120 km (74miles) it lost all power and sumped
took it in the dealership they told me it is the same problem with the oil pump
i am now at a point i just want to leave the bike at the dealer and buy something without all this sumping etc etc @#$$%%
who has got a sumped engine and is it fixed? does it hurt the new engine when it once got sumped?
thanks
That is sad to hear about your 2019 CVO. I traded my 2018 CVO stage 4 Street Glide for a 2019 Road Glide CVO because of sumping issues.
3 massive power loss occasions , no help from the dealer ! took my loss and moved on .
I put a stage 2 power cam and full Screaming Eagle exhaust on my 2019 CVO
400mi no issues yet
600 miles on mine with no problems
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While we have to take some information with a grain of salt and make decisions on real issues. I have to ask, don’t you think 4K Miles on a 2019 model might be a bit of an exaggeration and if it is true don’t you think that Ike had to have been ridden pretty hard to get there in mileage??
Bought my '15 end of July, 2015. 22 days later (middle of August), it had 4,800 miles on it...Sturgis trip with some side excursions and not riding hard to get that mileage. The '19 models have been out a month so 4,000 miles ain't out of the question.
As for the ridden hard part, I mean no disrespect to you SOCAL in this next statement because you aren't the only one of us on this site that expressed it. However, it shouldn't matter a hill of beans HOW one rides their motorcycle. Whether you ride like a bat outa heck or everywhere 5 miles under the speed limit, the product you purchased should hold up as promised. Have you seen the commercials the MoCo puts out? Smoking tires and folks riding curvy roads/tracks enjoying that new Harley....they want you to ride that sucker so they should be putting out a product you can do so on with little to no worry of breakdown...
One more thing. I don't want to defend the MoCo in this sumping (or "insert problem here") issue but with the lifters, they had quite a few failures so they knew what was causing it. With this sumping, not everybody with an M8 has had this problem. Some here have stated it's just a few while others have made it look like "they all are doing it" when, in reality, it's probably somewhere in the middle. I'm sure Momma Hawg is working on the problem as we can see with the constant oil pump/seal changes but I would not want to be in their shoes addressing a problem that bike A may be having while bike B is running like a scalded dog....talk about confusion and frustration....just something to ponder on...
.....off my :soapbox:
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I am skeptical, I think we may have been “Trolled” by an Indian Salesman! :coolblue:
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I am skeptical, I think we may have been “Trolled” by an Indian Salesman! :coolblue:
There are videos of this guy on FB and HDF. Bike is sumping for sure and it ain't pretty.
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In the video I've seen it's clearly a 19 CVO Road Glide and the friggin oil streaming from the motor is so hot it is boiling with visible bubbles. Looks like a cross between Jed Clampett and old faithful.
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update got a phonecall today from the hd dealer it had the old 2018 o ring in it it has been updated now to the 2019 seal i hope this works and is the fix keep you guys updated if he sums again or not
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Are they also going to tear the top end apart and inspect the cylinders and pistons?
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So basically we are once again rolling the dice on this purchase. I just traded in my 2015 with a brand new engine in it caused by Cam Compartment failure. Although I was aware of the M8 issues I was really hoping these issues were gone.
I will tell you there is a world of difference in the ride quality of the 2019s.
I would like to know what the ride situations and scenarios are when these failure occur. Stock? Temperature? Altitude? Load? Speed? RPM? Etc.?? The guy with 74 Miles on his Odom heck that’s pretty fresh and likely just at normal operating Temps.
You are also right, none of these scenarios should matter but still valid info
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they did a check up on cylinders and pistons
indeed i had 74 miles on it normal temp and did not go over 3000 rpm because i was breaking it in ride is absolutely stock
i am happy they do a test drive from 100 km today to check everything and hope this will be the fix
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So basically we are once again rolling the dice on this purchase. I just traded in my 2015 with a brand new engine in it caused by Cam Compartment failure. Although I was aware of the M8 issues I was really hoping these issues were gone.
I will tell you there is a world of difference in the ride quality of the 2019s.
I would like to know what the ride situations and scenarios are when these failure occur. Stock? Temperature? Altitude? Load? Speed? RPM? Etc.?? The guy with 74 Miles on his Odom heck that’s pretty fresh and likely just at normal operating Temps.
You are also right, none of these scenarios should matter but still valid info
Yep, you’re rolling the dice with a greater risk of coming up snake eyes than any customer should have to take when investing in a high end motorcycle. And now we know HD is willing to put 2019 motorcycles in the market that they KNOW have a higher risk to sump because they built it with the same components that caused sumping in 2018. Shameful!
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While we have to take some information with a grain of salt and make decisions on real issues. I have to ask, don’t you think 4K Miles on a 2019 model might be a bit of an exaggeration and if it is true don’t you think that. Ike had to have been ridden pretty hard to get there in mileage??
I don't ride my SEUC much around town (my FXR get's town miles). When I ride the SEUC, it is long trips west into the mountains. 4K to 6K per trip is pretty normal for us. And the trips are two to three weeks. So 4K on a 2019 is very believable. I think you'll find more than a few of the regulars on this forum acquire similar mileage on a regular basis...
As far as the sumping issue goes, there are reports of sumping occurring in just a few hundred miles. The nature of sumping doesn't require any particular amount of mileage, as it is not a wear issue (like lifters or compensators). I tend to believe the reports I read on this site, as there is consistent familiarity in the descriptions of the problems, and sadly, there also is a consistent familiarity in response of the dealers and the MOCO...
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got today the bike back changed the 2018 pump for the 2019 tts tuner installed by the dealer drives super no sumping much power dream bike so far
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I am so happy my FXR4 and Road King have V111 (75k miles) and V124 (36k) motors without a single problem!
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So the ‘19 CVO came with an ‘18 pump ?
I’m really curious bc I’m ready to jump in one ... this makes me very nervous !
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good to see the new pump might be fixing this issue. i just bout the silver,grey cvo roadglide. so far no problems with mine but definitely makes me nervous after reading your post. keep us updated
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While we have to take some information with a grain of salt and make decisions on real issues. I have to ask, don’t you think 4K Miles on a 2019 model might be a bit of an exaggeration and if it is true don’t you think that. Ike had to have been ridden pretty hard to get there in mileage??
Not really. My last 13 day trip I put 5278 miles on my bike. If I got one of the first 19 CVO's it would have over 8,000 miles on it by now.
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got today the bike back changed the 2018 pump for the 2019 tts tuner installed by the dealer drives super no sumping much power dream bike so far
This must be the new way to shrug the responsibility of warranty by HD.
Step 1 sell a faulty bike
Step 2 install an aftermarket tuner
Step 3 blame the aftermarket tuner
Step 4 deny all warranty issues
To all the new owners I hope you win the HD lottery and get one of the non sumpers.
Or even better! That the new O-ring is the cure,!!! And we are only hearing of 2019's that don't have the O-ring.
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got today the bike back changed the 2018 pump for the 2019 tts tuner installed by the dealer drives super no sumping much power dream bike so far
Can you tell us what the production date is for your bike? Should be on the sticker on the left side of the frame. Trying to see if it’s an unusually low production date bike ?
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While we have to take some information with a grain of salt and make decisions on real issues. I have to ask, don’t you think 4K Miles on a 2019 model might be a bit of an exaggeration and if it is true don’t you think that. Ike had to have been ridden pretty hard to get there in mileage??
2019s have been out for 2 month now! Ive put 7200 miles on a new bike in 10 days.
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Yeah, HD figures at least the Adventure bike owners will be so far out in the wilderness they won't be able to post about their issues. All part of the plan!! LOL
HD will be coming out with electric powered bikes soon. No more sumping!
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HD will be coming out with electric powered bikes soon. No more sumping!
That's right. The new Lightning Evotm. It's rocker box gaskets will leak electricity causing 2nd degree electrical burns on riders' inner thighs. Screamin' Eagle electric hot dog cooker accessory attachment will gather the stray electrons AND make the bike smell awesome after use.
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Can you tell us what the production date is for your bike? Should be on the sticker on the left side of the frame. Trying to see if it’s an unusually low production date bike ?
it was made 15 august 2018
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got today the bike back changed the 2018 pump for the 2019 tts tuner installed by the dealer drives super no sumping much power dream bike so far
In an earlier post you said it was a 2018 “seal”. Was it the seal or the pump?
Thank you.
Rob
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they changed both but the fix is the seal (what the dealer tells me)
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Thank you jero.
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I've got 3600 miles on my 2018 CVO RG, no problems, knock on wood. I replaced the exhaust system with S&S headers and 2016 4.5 in. High Output slip-ons. Also have an Arlen Ness Heavy Breather. Lot more air than the HD version. I am going to put the S&S oil pump and cam plate in this winter. Also change to S&S cam.
Has anyone sumped with the S&S pump and cam plate? Or the Fueling pump and cam plate?
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Sounds like you may be good to go now! I had my ‘18 sump on me with 185 miles and the new 2019 upgraded oil pump and seal is doing good for me so far. I hope that is the fix!
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I've got 3600 miles on my 2018 CVO RG, no problems, knock on wood. I replaced the exhaust system with S&S headers and 2016 4.5 in. High Output slip-ons. Also have an Arlen Ness Heavy Breather. Lot more air than the HD version. I am going to put the S&S oil pump and cam plate in this winter. Also change to S&S cam.
Has anyone sumped with the S&S pump and cam plate? Or the Fueling pump and cam plate?
Of course there is a reasonable chance the sumping issue is not caused by either the cam plate or oil pump...
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Of course there is a reasonable chance the sumping issue is not caused by either the cam plate or oil pump...
Yes.
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every time I see this thread "on the board" I cringe before I open it worrying its a 19 with new pump that has sumped. This time last year every night when I opened the forum someone else had sumped so I am getting my hopes up!
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every time I see this thread "on the board" I cringe before I open it worrying its a 19 with new pump that has sumped. This time last year every night when I opened the forum someone else had sumped so I am getting my hopes up!
I do the same thing Alan. I really feel for you and Heatwave, if I'd had the same kind of experience with multiple failures I don't think I could have handled it nearly as well as you two did. Here's hoping the problem really is resolved and everyone can stop worrying about it going forward.
Jerry
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Life is too short. I’ve moved on. I’m out of my ‘17 CVO Ltd and got out fully “whole”. I’ll enjoy my other bike and watch the market over the next yr. Maybe HD will launch a significant bike improvement OR maybe they won’t. If they get their act together next August, they will be back in consideration. If not, I’ll be moving to a new Brand of 2wheel entertainment.
Its just a motorcycle. But my days of putting up with poor quality or poor designs are over. No further patience for crappy products or crappy customer service particularly at ultra premium CVO prices. Too many good alternatives if the nonsense and shell games continue with 2020 models.
The threads and commentaries have been too repetitive for far too long for me to stay interested in the ongoing saga of HD’s bikes. Sometimes you just have to move on.
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Life is too short. I’ve moved on. I’m out of my ‘17 CVO Ltd and got out fully “whole”. I’ll enjoy my other bike and watch the market over the next yr. Maybe HD will launch a significant bike improvement OR maybe they won’t. If they get their act together next August, they will be back in consideration. If not, I’ll be moving to a new Brand of 2wheel entertainment.
Its just a motorcycle. But my days of putting up with poor quality or poor designs are over. No further patience for crappy products or crappy customer service particularly at ultra premium CVO prices. Too many good alternatives if the nonsense and shell games continue with 2020 models.
The threads and commentaries have been too repetitive for far too long for me to stay interested in the ongoing saga of HD’s bikes. Sometimes you just have to move on.
You got rid of it after they did the engine with the new cases or whatever it was they did to finally fix it?
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Yep, I know longer own the bike.
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I do the same thing Alan. I really feel for you and Heatwave, if I'd had the same kind of experience with multiple failures I don't think I could have handled it nearly as well as you two did. Here's hoping the problem really is resolved and everyone can stop worrying about it going forward.
Jerry
Honestly Jerry I didn't handle it very well as far as MoCo is concerned, threw a complete sh-- show at them including a couple guys that went to law school.
My "story" is almost over with dealer calling me today saying new bike is done with every option that was on my 17 SG installed or replaced including complete audio system, painted parts like heat deflectors and even license plate frame. Last obstacle is that CA has still not approved the stage 4 to install so we are "discussing" me taking bike and bringing back when CARB clears. Not comfortable taking bike without it being complete so now looking for document from MoCo stating that when installed regardless of date will be included in full warranty including 7 yr extended that was part of settlement. Been a ball of fun since May, why I bought the BMW. Now trying to convince my wife that me getting 2 2019 motorcycles was kinda an "accident"..
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Yep, I know longer own the bike.
Can't blame ya for it after everything you went through with it. No way you could trust it.
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Honestly Jerry I didn't handle it very well as far as MoCo is concerned, threw a complete sh-- show at them including a couple guys that went to law school.
As far as I'm concerned, the MoCo fully deserved a $hit show, plus whatever else is worse than that. Three years of M8 engines sumping and all they've done is put in that seal on the cam plate? Un-f'n-believable. Any engineers and managers who signed off on the plans for that engine better have been fired and ridden out of town on a sumping M8, forced to wait on the roadside for many hours in blazing sun and heat, spend several days of their vacation time trying to figure out how to get themselves and their gear back home and get their bike fixed, and having to argue with an HD "service" department and MoCo customer "service." And no kiss before they get "serviced! And the same treatment for all executives and department heads at moco! :soapbox:
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Chieftain looking better and better all the time. This is my go forward plan.
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Chieftain looking better and better all the time. This is my go forward plan.
Have you gone to there forum yet. They have their own issues
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Have you gone to there forum yet. They have their own issues
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Yes Sir I have. Every brand has issues but from my humble research it seems Indian has been way more upfront with their issues and seem to tell way less lies to the customer. Also the 116 rod issues have been resolved and are back on the market.
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Yes Sir I have. Every brand has issues but from my humble research it seems Indian has been way more upfront with their issues and seem to tell way less lies to the customer. Also the 116 rod issues have been resolved and are back on the market.
And that's a key distinction and great point. Having any issue is disappointing to a customer. Having a manufacturer that's open and honest and communicates means a lot, no matter the product.
My experience with head gaskets and compensators and lifters was more than disappointing. But the poor communication and infuriating poor responsiveness of both the local dealership and the factory to these issues meant game over for me. I still have my FXR and ride the hell out of it. I still have my 07 SEUC, and the maintenance (and expense) it requires to this day to keep it rolling is ridiculous. And I was hardcore Harley Davidson. I had purchased 6 CVO's in 9 years, my last being my '07. So I am very content to read of clutch issues and sumping issues and broken rocker shafts on the latest offering from the far sidelines...
So if there is another manufacturer who is open and honest and communicates well, and whose culture is to quickly and competently diagnose and resolve their mechanical issues - well - it's refreshing and more power to them.
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Have you gone to there forum yet. They have their own issues
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I've had a Roadmaster since 2016 and I'm not familiar with any issues. I've found the engine to be bulletproof. You'll have some excessive heat due to the cat and lean tune, but that's an easy fix.
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My 2019 RG CVO with stage 4 was being test ridden by SD Harley and they this it now has a sumping issue. How can HD sell these kits when this issue hasn't been addressed? I have 2500 miles on the bike, this shouldn't happen!!!
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My 2019 RG CVO with stage 4 was being test ridden by SD Harley and they this it now has a sumping issue. How can HD sell these kits when this issue hasn't been addressed? I have 2500 miles on the bike, this shouldn't happen!!!
Did they say what oil pump it has in it?
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Geez, their 3rd year with the M8 and STILL not fixed .... there's definitely sumping wrong with HD alright!
Sumping tells me I'll be keeping big blue for a looooong time.
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mine sumping is fixed with the new seal did drive it alot and hard :)
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This must be the new way to shrug the responsibility of warranty by HD.
Step 1 sell a faulty bike
Step 2 install an aftermarket tuner
Step 3 blame the aftermarket tuner
Step 4 deny all warranty issues
To all the new owners I hope you win the HD lottery and get one of the non sumpers.
Or even better! That the new O-ring is the cure,!!! And we are only hearing of 2019's that don't have the O-ring.
Exactly how it went down for me.
20 miles later... Still sumping and low and behold "No powertrain warranty!"
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Sorry for all the pi$$ed off guys having problems, but I couldn't resist the last one nobody but me found funny I guess. On a more serious note .... Has anybody watched this?
https://youtu.be/B5WomRbeSTc
This could be an option for those of you too bullheaded to give up, jump ship or just have too much invested to call it quits. That is if you're so hard-pressed to keep it and throw your warranty out the window. As usual, leave it to a speed shop to fix the MOCO's screw-ups. I'm still amazed at how some of you have so much dedication and patience to the brand to ride the latest/greatest from them .... personally I would've thrown in the towel long ago.
I know I've said this one before myself only to lie and give them another shot, but this time I mean it .... I will NEVER buy another new HD until they get their chit together and this time I really mean it. After 3 years of still not doing just that, my hat goes off to you stubborn ones still trying because I could never do what some of you have.
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My 2019 RG CVO with stage 4 was being test ridden by SD Harley and they this it now has a sumping issue. How can HD sell these kits when this issue hasn't been addressed? I have 2500 miles on the bike, this shouldn't happen!!!
I did start a thread about helping a friend modify a M8 for more power. I’d sure hate to lead him down an unsafe path.
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This SUMPING problem is NOT an oil pump problem......Harley knows what they have to do to fix this issue but elects NOT to admit they have a bad design in the case and breathing system. This new seal on the back of of the 19 oil pump only looks like it will hinder the breathing of this already problematic engine.
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This SUMPING problem is NOT an oil pump problem......Harley knows what they have to do to fix this issue but elects NOT to admit they have a bad design in the case and breathing system. This new seal on the back of of the 19 oil pump only looks like it will hinder the breathing of this already problematic engine.
Yep... what he said.
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Hi everyone out there,
I'm new to this forum but not sumping. I bought a 2017 CVO StreetGlide at Panama City bike week. 2016 and it sumped during the event. I didn't even know what sumping was yet. That went on for a while and two rebuilds and a complete new long block. Then Harley Davidson gave me a 2018 CVO StreetGlide which sumped it's second day at around 160 miles.
A rebuild and oil pump up grade and then a hand built complete engine and it sumped again. Well, Harley Davidson finally got me a 2019 CVO RoadGlide which I waited patiently for. At 259 miles, it sumped. I've been dealing with sumping for the full time these Milwaukee 8's have been in existence. I called my rep and he told me that I am the only 2019 to sump. I then told him that he was incorrect. The last engine that was hand built by him was a 2019 block which sumped.
I've lost so much money on all of my accessories (non Harley) and lost money on two extended service contracts and all they keep telling me is that they have to replicate the symptom. Last time the dealer rode the 2018 long enough to replicate it the bike came back with a seized engine and a few days after I got it back I had to replace the drive belt at a cost of 1,100.00 dollars. I was on a group ride and the belt started losing teeth. Tell me the dealer didn't beat the chit out of my bike?
I have a bunch of bikes and 3 RoadGlides of which one is punched to 124 C.I. pushing 141/141 and has 10,000 miles and the same drive belt. And I wheelie that thing on every ride. Point being that I don't trust very many dealer mechanics and or service writers.
I've read a few posts of 2019's with sumping issues. Would you guys be willing to respond to this post or call me?
At this point, I want Harley Davidson to refund all of my money on my bike. It's paid in full and I want some names of you with 2019's so I have some backup.
Bob Coco cell (516) 903-0011 Thank you
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Hi everyone out there,
I'm new to this forum but not sumping. I bought a 2017 CVO StreetGlide at Panama City bike week. 2016 and it sumped during the event. I didn't even know what sumping was yet. That went on for a while and two rebuilds and a complete new long block. Then Harley Davidson gave me a 2018 CVO StreetGlide which sumped it's second day at around 160 miles.
A rebuild and oil pump up grade and then a hand built complete engine and it sumped again. Well, Harley Davidson finally got me a 2019 CVO RoadGlide which I waited patiently for. At 259 miles, it sumped. I've been dealing with sumping for the full time these Milwaukee 8's have been in existence. I called my rep and he told me that I am the only 2019 to sump. I then told him that he was incorrect. The last engine that was hand built by him was a 2019 block which sumped.
I've lost so much money on all of my accessories (non Harley) and lost money on two extended service contracts and all they keep telling me is that they have to replicate the symptom. Last time the dealer rode the 2018 long enough to replicate it the bike came back with a seized engine and a few days after I got it back I had to replace the drive belt at a cost of 1,100.00 dollars. I was on a group ride and the belt started losing teeth. Tell me the dealer didn't beat the chit out of my bike?
I have a bunch of bikes and 3 RoadGlides of which one is punched to 124 C.I. pushing 141/141 and has 10,000 miles and the same drive belt. And I wheelie that thing on every ride. Point being that I don't trust very many dealer mechanics and or service writers.
I've read a few posts of 2019's with sumping issues. Would you guys be willing to respond to this post or call me?
At this point, I want Harley Davidson to refund all of my money on my bike. It's paid in full and I want some names of you with 2019's so I have some backup.
Bob Coco cell (516) 903-0011 Thank you
WOW JUST.........WOW!!!!!
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This SUMPING problem is NOT an oil pump problem......Harley knows what they have to do to fix this issue but elects NOT to admit they have a bad design in the case and breathing system. This new seal on the back of of the 19 oil pump only looks like it will hinder the breathing of this already problematic engine.
Harley must have some serious issues and incompetence with the R&D Department since it was 20 years between the Twin Cam and the M8....."twenty fricken years" and they still manage to turn out this type junk.
After 13 new Harley's between 1996 - 2013 looks like my last purchase will need to last forever since the MOCO will never sell me another new over-priced bike that is such an inferior product design with absolutely zero reliability.
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Hi everyone out there,
I'm new to this forum but not sumping. I bought a 2017 CVO StreetGlide at Panama City bike week. 2016 and it sumped during the event. I didn't even know what sumping was yet. That went on for a while and two rebuilds and a complete new long block. Then Harley Davidson gave me a 2018 CVO StreetGlide which sumped it's second day at around 160 miles.
A rebuild and oil pump up grade and then a hand built complete engine and it sumped again. Well, Harley Davidson finally got me a 2019 CVO RoadGlide which I waited patiently for. At 259 miles, it sumped. I've been dealing with sumping for the full time these Milwaukee 8's have been in existence. I called my rep and he told me that I am the only 2019 to sump. I then told him that he was incorrect. The last engine that was hand built by him was a 2019 block which sumped.
I've lost so much money on all of my accessories (non Harley) and lost money on two extended service contracts and all they keep telling me is that they have to replicate the symptom. Last time the dealer rode the 2018 long enough to replicate it the bike came back with a seized engine and a few days after I got it back I had to replace the drive belt at a cost of 1,100.00 dollars. I was on a group ride and the belt started losing teeth. Tell me the dealer didn't beat the chit out of my bike?
I have a bunch of bikes and 3 RoadGlides of which one is punched to 124 C.I. pushing 141/141 and has 10,000 miles and the same drive belt. And I wheelie that thing on every ride. Point being that I don't trust very many dealer mechanics and or service writers.
I've read a few posts of 2019's with sumping issues. Would you guys be willing to respond to this post or call me?
At this point, I want Harley Davidson to refund all of my money on my bike. It's paid in full and I want some names of you with 2019's so I have some backup.
Bob Coco cell (516) 903-0011 Thank you
Bob, I have almost the exact same story including having another bike with a 124 in it. As we speak the 19 Roadglide they gave me to replace the 17 Streetglide that sumped 3 times is at the shop now while they try and replicate my sumping as well. insanely frustrating..
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These continued sumping failures after three model yrs of a new engine could have deep and devastating impact on Harley Davidson. Reports are leaking out (Barron’s) that HD unit sales in the 4Q 2018 have “fallen off a cliff”. Sales have plummeted down 13.5% down from 2017.
These are unsustainable sales declines. And its not all motorcycle brands as HD is losing substantial market share. There is no doubt that quality issues and cost are major contributors to these sales declines and customers moving to other brands.
I see no end in sight and a really bad ending ahead. Another legacy American brand that has seen better days in the past that will go out with a whimper. Same as JC Penney, Sears, Kodak, Xerox, GE, Pan Am and Ford. Dead or dying American Icons and HD is on a path to join them.
Lack of innovation and poor quality is a path to irrelevancy. And I do not see how the $30k Livewire and an Adventure bike will pull them out of this tailspin. I believe the 2020 models will be HD’s last gasp chance to convince new and old customers alike that they can build quality motorcycles with creative innovation. If they fail in 2020, I predict they will soon join the other dead or walking dead American Icon companies that failed to innovate and slowly disappeared from the market.
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Heatwave, your last paragraph nails it. HD's core customer base are aging, out of shape, baby boomers. They are not the type to buy an adventure, electric, or sport bike. Those that are interested in buying, aka millennials, are not impressed with the HD image and will not pay a premium price just to get an HD emblem on the tank.
I don't know what the answer is to saving HD, maybe there isn't one. I do know a $30k 100 mile range electric bike isn't it.
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Heatwave, your last paragraph nails it. HD's core customer base are aging, out of shape, baby boomers. They are not the type to buy an adventure, electric, or sport bike. Those that are interested in buying, aka millennials, are not impressed with the HD image and will not pay a premium price just to get an HD emblem on the tank.
I don't know what the answer is to saving HD, maybe there isn't one. I do know a $30k 100 mile range electric bike isn't it.
I think the answer is pretty straight-forward but it'll likely take a company restructuring to lower labor costs and a new management. Refocus on lower prices, improving quality and innovation. Their "bread & butter" is touring bikes and the key to their short term survival. They need a new, lighter mono-shock frame for touring, a RELIABLE, more powerful engine, power adjustable windshield, power adjustable riding modes, more stock features like heated seats and grips, a backup gear for their larger touring bikes AND LOWER PRICING to get customers re-excited about the brand.
That's a tall order but I believe if they don't deliver on these improvements/upgrades in the 2020 models, that are mostly available from their competition, then Harley's best days will be behind them. The Livewire will be a dud to the company's 2020 P&L and without a return to growth in the Touring line, I'm afraid they will end up as a buy-out target long before they can fix their serious structural problems and return to growth. A company that doesn't grow... dies. Its really that simple. And 2018 will be 5 years in a row of declining sales. You can expect the decline of sales in 2019 to be the worst of all. Livewire will most definitely NOT reverse that trend.
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Heatwave, your last paragraph nails it. HD's core customer base are aging, out of shape, baby boomers. They are not the type to buy an adventure, electric, or sport bike. Those that are interested in buying, aka millennials, are not impressed with the HD image and will not pay a premium price just to get an HD emblem on the tank.
I don't know what the answer is to saving HD, maybe there isn't one. I do know a $30k 100 mile range electric bike isn't it.
I'm on the youngest end of boomer at 55 years old. I did a demo ride on a LiveWire years ago. Told them I loved it, it they could get a 300 mile or more range. Had they hit the 300, or maybe even 250 mile range, and a reasonable price I would have been all over it. But at a 70 mile range at speeds over 60, not at all interested, as I could only ride to town and back. They price for such a short range is crazy high.
I sure hope the do not miss the mark as bad with the PanAmerica. I have been very interested in an Adventure bike. However I'm thinking they will be way off the mark on it also. If it cant compete with the BMW GS it will miss the mark and not help sales much.
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I'm on the youngest end of boomer at 55 years old. I did a demo ride on a LiveWire years ago. Told them I loved it, it they could get a 300 mile or more range. Had they hit the 300, or maybe even 250 mile range, and a reasonable price I would have been all over it. But at a 70 mile range at speeds over 60, not at all interested, as I could only ride to town and back. They price for such a short range is crazy high.
I sure hope the do not miss the mark as bad with the PanAmerica. I have been very interested in an Adventure bike. However I'm thinking they will be way off the mark on it also. If it cant compete with the BMW GS it will miss the mark and not help sales much.
Their Livewire will be DOA. Next month Zero launches its latest electric motorcycle. $13,000. 150mph top speed, 150 mile range. 35min recharge. Harley won't stand a chance with Livewire against that price point and features.
https://electrek.co/2019/01/17/lightning-electric-motorcycle-strike/
If the city commuter is the target audience for this type of electric bike which one is likely to succeed? The $13,000, 150 mile range, 150mph top speed, 35min charging electric motorcycle OR the $30,000, 110 mile range, 92mph top speed, 3.5hr charging electric motorcycle? Duhhhhh
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Perhaps this is already in the works...but if I were the CEO of Polaris, I'd have my Indian R&D guys replicating the technology from Zero and Lightning and develop an e-bike at that price-point with killer looks. Half the cost of the Livewire, better range and performance, and available at a broader dealer network than the upstart e-bike makers can offer. Same holds true for Ducati and BMW...I see many manufacturers jumping on the e-bike train.
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Perhaps this is already in the works...but if I were the CEO of Polaris, I'd have my Indian R&D guys replicating the technology from Zero and Lightning and develop an e-bike at that price-point with killer looks. Half the cost of the Livewire, better range and performance, and available at a broader dealer network than the upstart e-bike makers can offer. Same holds true for Ducati and BMW...I see many manufacturers jumping on the e-bike train.
Faster, easier path is for Polaris or BMW or Honda to buy one of startup ebike manufacturers. Easy peasy decision. Its probably already in negotiations!
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I had an M8/114 Limited for a week (loaner) and loved it, but wouldn't spend $30K+ knowing that it might spend more time in the shop than on the road. After 17 years of production the TC was a pretty reliable platform with a few mods and a little preventative maintenance. Shouldn't have to do anything (read Goldwing), but that's the way it is.
HD should scrap the M8, take their losses and bring back the TC!
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There is so much bullchit on this forum, its beyond crazy. I have a 2017 cvo limited now with 15k miles, 2 years, zero issues and its the best harley i've owned to date in decades of riding. I have 2 lifelong riding buddies with m8's who love their bikes. Every model year has had some issues, tc110's were the worst.
I had an M8/114 Limited for a week (loaner) and loved it, but wouldn't spend $30K+ knowing that it might spend more time in the shop than on the road. After 17 years of production the TC was a pretty reliable platform with a few mods and a little preventative maintenance. Shouldn't have to do anything (read Goldwing), but that's the way it is.
HD should scrap the M8, take their losses and bring back the TC!
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There is so much bullchit on this forum, its beyond crazy. I have a 2017 cvo limited now with 15k miles, 2 years, zero issues and its the best harley i've owned to date in decades of riding. I have 2 lifelong riding buddies with m8's who love their bikes. Every model year has had some issues, tc110's were the worst.
Thank you! I have been dying to say the same thing. 10's of thousands of M8s on the road with no problems. Everyone just wants to bash... Mostly guys with older (Non M8) bikes, 124 Mods, or Doing wheelies on Touring Bikes??? Riding their bikes at 4 and 5 thousand RPMs for an hour at a time... And can you guess that they have had mutiple M8s and they all have sumped?? Go Figure. :nixweiss: Half of them need to find an Indian enthusiast site because I don't think they like Harley's or CVOs. My Humble Opinion.
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Thank you! I have been dying to say the same thing. 10's of thousands of M8s on the road with no problems. Everyone just wants to bash... Mostly guys with older (Non M8) bikes, 124 Mods, or Doing wheelies on Touring Bikes??? Riding their bikes at 4 and 5 thousand RPMs for an hour at a time... And can you guess that they have had mutiple M8s and they all have sumped?? Go Figure. :nixweiss: Half of them need to find an Indian enthusiast site because I don't think they like Harley's or CVOs. My Humble Opinion.
That's a very fair comment. Unfortunately problems get exaggerated but the kernel of truth inside the problem can't be denied. In fact HD doesn't deny the issues with the M8 by the fact that they have published multiple versions of the TSBs effecting the M8s. They've had 10 versions of oil pumps in just over 2 years.
I think there would be a tremendous amount of forgiveness for a company that alot of people are loyal to if it weren't for the fact that the problems remain uncorrected after 3 model years.
But a few voices on the internet are hardly the issue or really even matter that much. HD is losing serious market share and massive loss of unit sales compared to competitors. It can not continue for this iconic American company without a very bad outcome in the future. They either get their sh*t together soon or the writing is on the wall for all to see.
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I have 2 CVO RG one is a 12 that has 50000 miles on it and I ride it like I stole it mostly highway miles rolling at around 75 to 80 on long road trips.That bike hasn't been into stock lifters and all. Now bike # 2 a 18 and I ride it the same way to and just got it back yesterday they had to put a oil pump in it with 9600 miles I love my CVO's and I've been riding Harley for over 40 yrs. My point is fix the problem if my 18 sumps again I may let it go to a new home. Also have a 15 RGS so letting a problem go will not hurt as bad as the problem child.
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I had an M8/114 Limited for a week (loaner) and loved it, but wouldn't spend $30K+ knowing that it might spend more time in the shop than on the road. After 17 years of production the TC was a pretty reliable platform with a few mods and a little preventative maintenance. Shouldn't have to do anything (read Goldwing), but that's the way it is.
HD should scrap the M8, take their losses and bring back the TC!
While I know they can sump, and some will for sure, maybe all will under the right condition.
That said of my 4 110 Twin cam CVO touring bikes, 2 had lifter failure. One had two compensators, one had hydraulic clutch failure. One never had a chance as I built the motor with 1500 miles on the bike, Had the heads done, beehive springs rather than HD's to heavy springs, and much better lifters. Both lifter failures occurred with over 40K on the bikes, on still in warranty by 2 days, motor replaced with 44K on the bike, the other was 46K miles.
I'm on my 3rd CVO M8. I put 21,500 trouble free miles on my 17 CVO Street Glide. I put 24,850 miles on my 18 CVO Road Glide, trouble free. Took two 5000 plus mile vacations on it, on to Glacier in the Summer and the Other to AZ, NM and South TX in Sept. I now am on a 19 CVO Road Glide.
My bike are ridden, and pretty hard. On the way to Glacier, first day I rode 1065 miles in 14.5 hours. I also did a Iron Butt, 1500 miles in 33 hours on it. Then I did 980 in 13 hours on my way to AZ. I also push it hard in the curves.
Maybe I have been lucky with the sumping.
I think it is a better engine, makes more power, runs smoother.
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I do agree with you they make good power. When they changed out my oil pump shop foreman which is also my tuner for my 12 ask if I wanted to change the cam out. So I did have it change to the power cam which is the cam for the stage 2 up grade in 117's bike is under factory warranty. So all I pay for was the cam kit . It do pull better put they still need to find out why they sump they may need engine builders instead from engineers that keeps saying this will fix it
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I think the answer is pretty straight-forward but it'll likely take a company restructuring to lower labor costs and a new management. Refocus on lower prices, improving quality and innovation. Their "bread & butter" is touring bikes and the key to their short term survival. They need a new, lighter mono-shock frame for touring, a RELIABLE, more powerful engine, power adjustable windshield, power adjustable riding modes, more stock features like heated seats and grips, a backup gear for their larger touring bikes AND LOWER PRICING to get customers re-excited about the brand.
That's a tall order but I believe if they don't deliver on these improvements/upgrades in the 2020 models, that are mostly available from their competition, then Harley's best days will be behind them. The Livewire will be a dud to the company's 2020 P&L and without a return to growth in the Touring line, I'm afraid they will end up as a buy-out target long before they can fix their serious structural problems and return to growth. A company that doesn't grow... dies. Its really that simple. And 2018 will be 5 years in a row of declining sales. You can expect the decline of sales in 2019 to be the worst of all. Livewire will most definitely NOT reverse that trend.
I'm a example of what this post details. After 28 years on Harleys, 12 new bikes, i switched.
Bought a new 18 BMW K1600B or Bagger. Has all the features. Really performs with it's 160HP straight 6cyl. Handles, rides, does it all. You really gotta ride one to appreciate.
Rolland Sands out of California helped BMW design the bike.
It pained me to switch in many ways, simply couldn't ignore what this bike offered. At some point I'd like to buy a used Harley, i still like them and would enjoy for occasional rides. I would look for a older twin cam with carb. A simple Harley with the superior crank offered between 1999 and 2003.
Hopefully Harley gets it together. Feel bad for owners of current M8's when the change happens as values will drop like a rock.
Time will tell
Sent from my SM-J327T using Tapatalk
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Thank you! I have been dying to say the same thing. 10's of thousands of M8s on the road with no problems. Everyone just wants to bash... Mostly guys with older (Non M8) bikes, 124 Mods, or Doing wheelies on Touring Bikes??? Riding their bikes at 4 and 5 thousand RPMs for an hour at a time... And can you guess that they have had mutiple M8s and they all have sumped?? Go Figure. :nixweiss: Half of them need to find an Indian enthusiast site because I don't think they like Harley's or CVOs. My Humble Opinion.
What you said is ridiculous. I am one of the guys that have sumped multiple bikes, multiple times. All the sumping occurred in 6th. gear at speeds between 65 and maybe 80 mph. Not really excessive considering the speed limits in some areas were 70 mph. I also have 2 Twin Cams and an Evo. My 2016 CVO RoadGlide Ultra was only a few days old with maybe 200 miles on it when I rode it almost 5,000 miles in 10 days. I was running 80-90 mph through full tanks of gas to get to Myrtle Beach. That bike still runs perfect and hasn't been to a dealer for anything more then services and a new tire. (Due to a nail)
I also happen to have the 124 C.I. 2016 Road Glide Special that does pull wheelies without any hesitation. And it doesn't sump or break down at all. And then theirs the Evo Well honestly I don't ride it much because it's a pristine 98 Anniversary Road King with 7,000 miles but I do have full confidence I could take any of these bikes from New York to Florida stopping only for fuel, food and bathroom usage. My 17,18 and now 19 CVO's haven't gone more then a few hundred miles without sumping. I bought the 17 to replace my 16 CVO StreetGlide (White/Purple) because I saw three of them being ridden by girls in Panama City and had I known about sumping I'd still be on that 16.
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WELL STATED!!!
Harley needs to resolve this problem.
When you are selling bikes nearly the same price as fairly welk appointed pick up trucks, you need to up your game.
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What you said is ridiculous. I am one of the guys that have sumped multiple bikes, multiple times... I also happen to have the 124 C.I. 2016 Road Glide Special that does pull wheelies without any hesitation.... My 17,18 and now 19 CVO's haven't gone more then a few hundred miles without sumping....
Well I disagree that it is ridiculous but I understand how you might feel that it is. If you take a step back and try to look at it analytically from an outsiders perspective, how do you explain what you have experienced? Do you propose that every M8 produced in 17, 18 and 19 has the flaw? That does not explain the Thousands upon Thousands of M8 bikes ridden every day without an issue. Are you saying that the 3 bikes you purchased all had the flaw but others do not? That is a statistical nightmare (engines produced on a modern assembly line with a screw up? ... installed in bike that happened to be allocated to your dealer? ... of all the potential buyers you are the one that bought it... Repeat for the next 2 years?) You are saying you have had 3 M8s that have all sumped before the 1,000 mile service? That rules out oil viscosity. Were your bikes all stock? What kinds of Mods?
There has to be a common denominator. If not then how do you explain it?
As for the rest of my statements. There are many Twin Cam guys that seem to chime in even though they have no real experience with the M8. Preaching Doom and Gloom about Harley Davidson. Saying that they will never buy another and this will be the demise of HD... I have had 88's 103's 110's and now a 117 and I have loved them all and will likely buy another one day.
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Well I disagree that it is ridiculous but I understand how you might feel that it is. If you take a step back and try to look at it analytically from an outsiders perspective, how do you explain what you have experienced? Do you propose that every M8 produced in 17, 18 and 19 has the flaw? That does not explain the Thousands upon Thousands of M8 bikes ridden every day without an issue. Are you saying that the 3 bikes you purchased all had the flaw but others do not? That is a statistical nightmare (engines produced on a modern assembly line with a screw up? ... installed in bike that happened to be allocated to your dealer? ... of all the potential buyers you are the one that bought it... Repeat for the next 2 years?) You are saying you have had 3 M8s that have all sumped before the 1,000 mile service? That rules out oil viscosity. Were your bikes all stock? What kinds of Mods?
There has to be a common denominator. If not then how do you explain it?
As for the rest of my statements. There are many Twin Cam guys that seem to chime in even though they have no real experience with the M8. Preaching Doom and Gloom about Harley Davidson. Saying that they will never buy another and this will be the demise of HD... I have had 88's 103's 110's and now a 117 and I have loved them all and will likely buy another one day.
My experience is very similar to his. 3 M8 engines that sumped. I ride the same way I have for almost 50 yrs. My TCs never sumped and my higly upgraded CVO 110 NEVER sumped and I have 75,000 miles on it, with the same riding style.
My 2017 CVO Limited had a stage IV kit purchased from HD and installed by my dealer. It sumped and so did the next 2 engines they installed under warranty. I use only factory recommended Syn 3 oil. All service performed and documented by dealer. HD Tech Services personally supervised the installs with a Master Tech from Milwaukee.
So whats YOUR explanation? Instead of cheerleading and challenging those owners experiencing sumping, perhaps you might just be thankful you haven’t experienced it yourself ...... at least not yet.
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"As for the rest of my statements. There are many Twin Cam guys that seem to chime in even though they have no real experience with the M8. Preaching Doom and Gloom about Harley Davidson. Saying that they will never buy another and this will be the demise of HD..."
I don't think one has to own an M8 to offer comments regarding sumping and I don't see anything wrong with HD enthusiasts using M8 issues as a reason not buy one. If all we wanted to hear is good news, see your dealer. There is overwhelming evidence to support a design flaw in this engine: comments & opinions from respected engine builders, the number of HD M8 oil pump iterations, testimonials from sumping M8 owners, aftermarket companies offering M8 oiling fixes, etc.
I didn't have to own a Ford Pinto to know a design flaw caused the fuel tank to explode when struck from the rear. Nor did I have to own a set of Firestone 500s to know they were flawed tires. Not every Pinto exploded and not every set of 500s failed. But there was enough evidence to identify a problem with both. The same goes for the M8, IMO.
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Well said Mark.
I also don’t own a M8 (and wouldn’t) but I do work at a dealership and witness the number of engine issues with the M8s. We have lost count of the engines that HD either replaced or paid to have rebuilt since these engines were introduced. To deny there’s a problem just shows lack of real world exposure or refusal to accept the truth..
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I was skeptical of the dozens of M8 sumping testimonials myself, but the multiple MoCo oil pump design changes leave little doubt in my mind now.
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SO mostly just the M8's that have a Stage 3 or 4 have sumping issues it seems. I have an 18 CVO Limited that is pretty much stock except for non cat head pipe & fullsac baffles in stock mufflers.. Im thinking of going with a different cam but with motor issues maybe just leave it alone. I feel for the owners with these problems thou as I'm sure it frustrating...
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Since HD does not publicly release information concerning the sumping issue, we will never know the extent of the problem. Dealer's and HD have a financial incentive not to publicize the issue as it would hurt sales.
It would also be a HD PR nightmare with all of the other issues going on with dropping sales.
I think most publicly traded corporation are more concerned with their stock price than anything else.
:oops: :nixweiss:
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My experience is very similar to his. 3 M8 engines that sumped. I ride the same way I have for almost 50 yrs. My TCs never sumped and my higly upgraded CVO 110 NEVER sumped and I have 75,000 miles on it, with the same riding style.
My 2017 CVO Limited had a stage IV kit purchased from HD and installed by my dealer. It sumped and so did the next 2 engines they installed under warranty. I use only factory recommended Syn 3 oil. All service performed and documented by dealer. HD Tech Services personally supervised the installs with a Master Tech from Milwaukee.
So whats YOUR explanation? Instead of cheerleading and challenging those owners experiencing sumping, perhaps you might just be thankful you haven’t experienced it yourself ...... at least not yet.
What's MY explanation? Your situation is different. No one has said that the first year M8s had no issue, especially with the Stage IVs. In fact HD issued a bulletin recommending the upgraded seal for the Stage IVs. Now if you had said that you bought a new one each model year and the were all stock and they all sumped then I would be skeptical. BTW this is a public forum. If someone doesn't want want anyone "Challenging" what they have to say then they shouldn't be posting it here. If no one ever challenged anything that anyone posted there would be a lot of BS flying around.
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What's MY explanation? Your situation is different. No one has said that the first year M8s had no issue, especially with the Stage IVs. In fact HD issued a bulletin recommending the upgraded seal for the Stage IVs. Now if you had said that you bought a new one each model year and the were all stock and they all sumped then I would be skeptical. BTW this is a public forum. If someone doesn't want want anyone "Challenging" what they have to say then they shouldn't be posting it here. If no one ever challenged anything that anyone posted there would be a lot of BS flying around.
If HD is selling "upgrades" that are sumping, then it is still HD's fault regardless of the engine build. HD is the one who designed/manufactured/sanctioned those upgrades and their factory trained techs are the ones that installed them. I think it is only common sense that individuals who install those upgrades are more than likely ride their bikes harder than non-upgraded bikes.
If HD stops selling or suspends selling of those "upgrade" kits, it is an acknowledgement that there is an issue and they, for liability issues, don't want that to happen.
HD, has in the past, done the same thing with the 110 in denying there were any problems. Leaking cylinder base gasket, bad lifters, failed compensations, etc. It is part of HD normal business model.
:oops: :nixweiss:
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This SUMPING problem is NOT an oil pump problem......Harley knows what they have to do to fix this issue but elects NOT to admit they have a bad design in the case and breathing system. This new seal on the back of of the 19 oil pump only looks like it will hinder the breathing of this already problematic engine.
Phreakyz
First of all I am truly happy for you, and all owners who have had success with the M8.
But to say it is bullchit.
The quote above is from a guy who knows more about engines than 99.9% of the people here.
He also makes money by tuning and performance modding HD motors.
Why in the world would he want to create BS about the very product that makes him money?
I do not doubt or disagree with you that there are probably plenty of M8's that are trouble free.
But you yourself speak of the known problem.
What's MY explanation? Your situation is different. No one has said that the first year M8s had no issue, especially with the Stage IVs. In fact HD issued a bulletin recommending the upgraded seal for the Stage IVs. Now if you had said that you bought a new one each model year and the were all stock and they all sumped then I would be skeptical. BTW this is a public forum. If someone doesn't want want anyone "Challenging" what they have to say then they shouldn't be posting it here. If no one ever challenged anything that anyone posted there would be a lot of BS flying around.
Again I do not doubt or disagree with you that there are M8's in existence, that are without problems.
I would not be so arrogant to claim you are full of BS!
I also would not be so arrogant to claim those who have had problems are full of BS!
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Well Phreakyz, First off I don't hide behind a made up screen name. Bob Coco is my name. Go ahead and google it. And All three of my bikes sumped while stock. The 17 sumped while waiting for the Stage IV kit to arrive to my local dealer. It then had a total meltdown once built as a Stage IV.
The 18 sumped with under 200 miles on it and my H.D. rep advised me that I shouldn't go the Stage IV kit. After multiple sumps and a total engine seize (engine seized while being ridden by dealership service writer repairing bike)
at that point H.D. offered me a hand built Stage IV engine. That lasted a while. Broken in as per H.D. recommendations on conventional motor oil and switched to synthetic at 1k miles. That made it to around 2,400 miles until it sumped.
H.D. then offered me a buyout which was very one sided and I eventually refused and they offered me another bike swap. I did lose the Stage IV kit but honestly I didn't care as the bike is speed governed at 111 m.p.h. anyway and the Stage IV makes it's power in the higher rpm's anyway.
So, after waiting for my bike to be built, I received it in Fort Lauderdale and trailered it back to Daytona where I had just bought a vacation home. I rode it a little that night with no problems. The next day while riding back from Orlando National Forest? I think I blinked because I missed the forest. LOL I started to feel the bike get sluggish. Now mind you, I had a passenger and she wouldn't approve of hot dogging or whatever you want to call it so we were running about 70or so. I didn't actually look at the speedometer while in 6th. gear. Again mind you, I'm not looking to sump another bike. at 259 miles while riding my almost stock CVO (ClockWorks windshield) 2019 RoadGlide I started hearing the engine getting louder and slowed down and pulled into the closest gas station. I checked the oil and it was barely on the stick. Waited 30 minutes, checked again and same. I'm guessing down 2 quarts. I started the bike up and let idle for maybe 3-5 minutes and rechecked the oil. 1/2 quart down. Do the math!!
Shove that feather in your hat!!! I'm sick of ignorant people saying I don't know how to ride. I got my motorcycle license 40 years ago. I've ridden hundreds of thousands of miles. NonStops of 1,200 miles more the once and owned numerous bikes. Heck, My HOG membership is good until 2025 and that's just from buying new bikes. I presently own 4 Harleys and 5 motorcycles in total. In my Navy days my 850 Yamaha Special would go back and forth from Norfolk, Va. to Long Island N.Y. almost every weekend I didn't have duty with many trips into West Virginia and the Carolina's.
Myrtle Beach 2018 trip I road A brand new left over 2016 CVO RoadGlide Ultra 5,000 plus miles in 10 days getting the bike serviced twice along the way without a single hiccup.
So read the last few posts one of which from an individual working at a dealer. And then make your comments.
If you rode more then you posted you might just learn what sumping really is. Over and Out!!!
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Well Phreakyz, First off I don't hide behind a made up screen name. Bob Coco is my name. Go ahead and google it. And All three of my bikes sumped while stock. The 17 sumped while waiting for the Stage IV kit to arrive to my local dealer. It then had a total meltdown once built as a Stage IV.
The 18 sumped with under 200 miles on it and my H.D. rep advised me that I shouldn't go the Stage IV kit. After multiple sumps and a total engine seize (engine seized while being ridden by dealership service writer repairing bike)
at that point H.D. offered me a hand built Stage IV engine. That lasted a while. Broken in as per H.D. recommendations on conventional motor oil and switched to synthetic at 1k miles. That made it to around 2,400 miles until it sumped.
H.D. then offered me a buyout which was very one sided and I eventually refused and they offered me another bike swap. I did lose the Stage IV kit but honestly I didn't care as the bike is speed governed at 111 m.p.h. anyway and the Stage IV makes it's power in the higher rpm's anyway.
So, after waiting for my bike to be built, I received it in Fort Lauderdale and trailered it back to Daytona where I had just bought a vacation home. I rode it a little that night with no problems. The next day while riding back from Orlando National Forest? I think I blinked because I missed the forest. LOL I started to feel the bike get sluggish. Now mind you, I had a passenger and she wouldn't approve of hot dogging or whatever you want to call it so we were running about 70or so. I didn't actually look at the speedometer while in 6th. gear. Again mind you, I'm not looking to sump another bike. at 259 miles while riding my almost stock CVO (ClockWorks windshield) 2019 RoadGlide I started hearing the engine getting louder and slowed down and pulled into the closest gas station. I checked the oil and it was barely on the stick. Waited 30 minutes, checked again and same. I'm guessing down 2 quarts. I started the bike up and let idle for maybe 3-5 minutes and rechecked the oil. 1/2 quart down. Do the math!!
Shove that feather in your hat!!! I'm sick of ignorant people saying I don't know how to ride. I got my motorcycle license 40 years ago. I've ridden hundreds of thousands of miles. NonStops of 1,200 miles more the once and owned numerous bikes. Heck, My HOG membership is good until 2025 and that's just from buying new bikes. I presently own 4 Harleys and 5 motorcycles in total. In my Navy days my 850 Yamaha Special would go back and forth from Norfolk, Va. to Long Island N.Y. almost every weekend I didn't have duty with many trips into West Virginia and the Carolina's.
Myrtle Beach 2018 trip I road A brand new left over 2016 CVO RoadGlide Ultra 5,000 plus miles in 10 days getting the bike serviced twice along the way without a single hiccup.
So read the last few posts one of which from an individual working at a dealer. And then make your comments.
If you rode more then you posted you might just learn what sumping really is. Over and Out!!!
I agree.
My first M8, I’m now on #5, sumped after the stage 3 was installed. My dealer bought it back. They changed the oil pump and sold it to some other guy. None of my other M8’s have sumped, but only one of those did I go inside of. On the 2018 Road Glide, I did a cam, pipe, air cleaner, and tune. Installed by me and tuned by my dealer. My current M8, I believe it’s transfering transmission fluid. Tomorrow my new clutch rod arrives and that will taken care of.
Honestly, I don’t have to justify squat to anyone, and I won’t. I’m just reporting what I find.
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I talked to Bob at Myrtle Beach while he was doing a stereo upgrade on the 16. We talk about the sumping issue that H-D has at the time my 18 hadn't sumped. But guess what it did 9600 miles on it all stock . I too have a 110 TC and it stock also down to the lifters . I have 6 yr warranty on the 18 so if it does it again they can keep fixing it until they come up with the real fix and it may be a new engine design.
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I don't have a dog in this race, I own one of the last TCs made, but I will use the information/stories in threads like this to make good choices when time comes for me to buy. sorry to those that got fauked on the M8.... and best wishes to those that didn't :nixweiss:
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I don't have a dog in this race, I own one of the last TCs made, but I will use the information/stories in threads like this to make good choices when time comes for me to buy. sorry to those that got fauked on the M8.... and best wishes to those that didn't :nixweiss:
Fast Freddy, The only reason I still have some sanity is because I still have 2 2016 Roadglides. I have a Red CVO Ultra and a Black Quartz Special that's punched to 124 C.I. making big power. My Ultra I bought after my 17 sumped afew times. I saw it sitting on the showroom floor next to an 18 CVO Limited and without a single hesitation I bought it knowing it was the last twin cam CVO Ultra RoadGlide I would probably see that was new.
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Not in particular response to Bob Coco's discussions but just getting onto the tail end of this discussion.
As a point of interest.
A precedent has already been made for sumping about 65 years ago, it was called over oiling then. The bike was a Panther 120. See this link: https://sump-publishing.co.uk/panther.htm
The "sump-publishing" is entirely coincidental but apt at this moment in time..
If you do not want to read the article this is an extract that refers to the issue and the resolution:
"One major problem of the Model 120 was over-oiling. Panther’s long established oil-scavenge system incorporates a primitive, but (until the Model 120) effective knife-edge weir in which the flywheels scoop oil from the engine cases into the integral oil tank (wedge shaped chamber forward of the timing chest). The clearance is only 60 thousandths of an inch."
Reading the many "sumping" posts one of the solutions presented is in effect a scrapper forming a weir, which coincidently has a clearance of 0.060" - same as the above solution. small world isn't it.
Seems like all the high falutin engineers at Harley need to relate to history to solve problems that have already been encountered by others. I bet the Panther solution was developed by a fella with a pencil and a bit of paper in a workshop, maybe discussing it with a colleague. How many "Engineers" have Harley had looking at the issue an still not resolved it.
JohnT
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johnmowcop, I read you post and I agree. I also believe HD engineers and mgmt know what the problem is. However, to recall every M8, remove the engine, disassemble, install a fix, reassemble, and reinstall the engine, would be so costly & time consuming as to tank HD stock even further - perhaps bankrupting the MoCo. So, what we've seen so far are easy, less costly, "solutions," hoping one eventually counters the sumping problem.
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johnmowcop, I read you post and I agree. I also believe HD engineers and mgmt know what the problem is. However, to recall every M8, remove the engine, disassemble, install a fix, reassemble, and reinstall the engine, would be so costly & time consuming as to tank HD stock even further - perhaps bankrupting the MoCo. So, what we've seen so far are easy, less costly, "solutions," hoping one eventually counters the sumping problem.
EXACTLY!, although I'm not as confident in the abilities of Harley's own engineers as you might be. But I'm sure they have engineering consultants who could figure out the root cause, so I agree they very likely know the real root cause of the problem and they also won't fix that root cause any time soon due to the costs involved. Band-Aids are the most you will see, and those band-aids will reduce the failure rate somewhat but will not eliminate the failures completely. When they get a chance to make a design change they can claim has nothing to do with sumping, they will slip in a real fix. I'm not just making this up btw, I've seen it done not only by H-D but by auto companies in the past. The aftermarket has already identified a problem related to the new cases, similar to what is mentioned in johnmowcop's post. There's a video around here showing exactly what they found and the proposed fix. Looks and sounds reasonable to me, at least a lot more than the bogus oil pump housing seal Harley put out.
Only time will tell, I doubt anyone in the know at Harley will ever admit the real problem.
JMHO - Jerry
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Agree, as long as the vast majority don't sump we'll likely never see a drastic design change. Certainly not any sort of voluntary recall or update on the MoCo's dime.
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There's a video around here showing exactly what they found and the proposed fix. Looks and sounds reasonable to me, at least a lot more than the bogus oil pump housing seal Harley put out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5WomRbeSTc&t=6s
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C'mon its tradition its a Harley!
Didn't they swap out all 1930 engine lower ends, bad vibes
1936 Knuck launch delayed due to over oiling top end
funny with time all these are noted , but bikes reach a classic revered status
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5WomRbeSTc&t=6s
Yes that's the one I referred too. 0.060" distance to scraper from flywheel circumference.
JohnT
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Modern synthetic 20w-50 is an interesting fluid. It's heavy like gear oil. It's sticky, clingy, and "climbs" on moving parts. Wonder if these fluid characteristics are part of the issue.
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Modern synthetic 20w-50 is an interesting fluid. It's heavy like gear oil. It's sticky, clingy, and "climbs" on moving parts. Wonder if these fluid characteristics are part of the issue.
I run the exact same oil (Syn3) in my modified 110 TC that makes 123/123, as I did in my stage IV M8 117. Both are factory recommended and were delivered from the factory with Syn3.
The 110 has never sumped in 70,000 hard ridden miles. The Stage IV M8 117 Stage IV sumped 3 engines in less than 10,000 miles with the exact same riding style.
The synthetic oil is unrelated to sumping in the M8 other than the fact that, under the right conditions, there’s more oil in the crankcase than the engine designers planned.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5WomRbeSTc&t=6s
I'm glad to see a video I originally posted before last Thanksgiving is finally getting noticed, lol. I guess you don't want to attempt that one until your warranty is up however. We all know who the MOCO will blame for any other issues that may arise after installing their scraper if the warranty is still intact. As usual, leave it to the aftermarket/speed shops to fix HD's shortcomings.
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Modern synthetic 20w-50 is an interesting fluid. It's heavy like gear oil. It's sticky, clingy, and "climbs" on moving parts. Wonder if these fluid characteristics are part of the issue.
Just out of curiosity has anyone experienced sumping using any oil other than Syn 3? I use Mobile 1 V Twin. Anyone sump using that?
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Just out of curiosity has anyone experienced sumping using any oil other than Syn 3? I use Mobile 1 V Twin. Anyone sump using that?
Amsoil for me but don't think that has anything to do with it. Been using it for years
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Just out of curiosity has anyone experienced sumping using any oil other than Syn 3? I use Mobile 1 V Twin. Anyone sump using that?
The likelyhood of the brand of oil being used causing the sumping is about as common as hens teeth...
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Not saying the oil or brand of oil is causing the issue as Evos and Twin Cams use the same oil, but oil doesn't simply drain through tiny crevices and move like water. Its stickiness and surface tension can enable it to do some interesting things inside a running engine. Just thinking out loud so to speak; perhaps HD over simplified things.
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if a sump is designed properly it should be flooded at its pickup... :nixweiss: and if sump area is under vacuum/pressure that the pump cant over come, :nixweiss: is this the cause :nixweiss: so if you vent crank case to atmosphere would this end the issue, sorry but im not the sharpest pencil in the pack just asking :nixweiss: :nixweiss: :nixweiss:
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if a sump is designed properly it should be flooded at its pickup... :nixweiss: and if sump area is under vacuum/pressure that the pump cant over come, :nixweiss: is this the cause :nixweiss: so if you vent crank case to atmosphere would this end the issue, sorry but im not the sharpest pencil in the pack just asking :nixweiss: :nixweiss: :nixweiss:
I’ve heard running with the dipstick lose improves venting and significantly reduces chances to sump. Four articles in a series in American Iron magazine explored this. I’ll have to look up which months these were published if anyone’s interested. Anyone tried this?
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I’ve heard running with the dipstick lose improves venting and significantly reduces chances to sump. Four articles in a series in American Iron magazine explored this. I’ll have to look up which months these were published if anyone’s interested. Anyone tried this?
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The only thing that will do is vent the oil pan, not the crankcase. The crankcase is already vented through the standard breather system. At this point in time I've seen nothing that indicates the problem is caused by a pressure build-up in the crankcase or the oil pan. A pressure build-up in the crankcase wouldn't cause sumping, it would actually help make the oil flow to the scavenge side of the pump. The thing that did change for the M8 is the design of the engine cases and the location of the oil pickup hole in the sump, and that is where I believe the problem was created.
JMHO - Jerry
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The only thing that will do is vent the oil pan, not the crankcase. The crankcase is already vented through the standard breather system. At this point in time I've seen nothing that indicates the problem is caused by a pressure build-up in the crankcase or the oil pan. A pressure build-up in the crankcase wouldn't cause sumping, it would actually help make the oil flow to the scavenge side of the pump. The thing that did change for the M8 is the design of the engine cases and the location of the oil pickup hole in the sump, and that is where I believe the problem was created.
JMHO - Jerry
Jerry,
There is a vent between the crankcase and the oil tank. If my memory serves me well, its a lot larger than the 2 going to the air cleaner. If I had a sumper, I would be willing to try it. Star Racing seems to believe the sumping issue stems from ring seal. Seems like the guys offering these 124 an128 kits aren’t seeing the sumping on their builds.... or at least the owners are being extremely quiet.
Chris
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A quick teaser on the articles I mentioned previously. See the attached image.
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Is there a link to the full article?
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Is there a link to the full article?
No link I know of. I have a paid electronic subscription through my iPad. It’s not that expensive and you can purchase back issues. You want issues 365 through 368 to get the full analysis of this Sumping situation. A very well written set of articles IMHO.
https://www.aimag.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/subscription/AIM.html
Once you subscribe you download the ZINIO app and you can get your digital issues delivered that way.
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Well after reading this thread I am still on the fence. I have a Mako sitting at the Dealership waiting on me to pick it up. After reading all of this I'm not so sure now. I am also worried about the Financial well being of the Motor Company. They are in trouble and I think the release of the Live Wire might be the nail in the coffin. I absolutely love the color and the ride of the new bike and I was going to do the S&S 124 kit after I got 1000 miles on the motor. Decisions Decisions Decisions!!!!
Be Safe
THE DAWG
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Well after reading this thread I am still on the fence. I have a Mako sitting at the Dealership waiting on me to pick it up. After reading all of this I'm not so sure now. I am also worried about the Financial well being of the Motor Company. They are in trouble and I think the release of the Live Wire might be the nail in the coffin. I absolutely love the color and the ride of the new bike and I was going to do the S&S 124 kit after I got 1000 miles on the motor. Decisions Decisions Decisions!!!!
Be Safe
THE DAWG
Im on my 3rd CVO M8. The 17 CVO Street Glide I put 21500 miles on trouble free, the 18 CVO road glide I put 24750 trouble free milers on and now the 19 CVO Road Glide.
The 117 is stronger than the 114, much stronger than 3" would let you believe. It has to do with a better cam.
Can it sump, yes they can. My 18 might have once as it lost power, slowed down and cruised for a bit, and all was normal. I am hoping the new pump, back plate and seal fixes the sumping issue.
I am going to ride this one a year then most likely build the motor. If it sumps, which I do not think it will, T-man has one fix for it and S&S has a different fix.
I like the feel of the M8 better than the TC. Power comes on earlier, and smoother. I still have two TC bikes.
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Im on my 3rd CVO M8. The 17 CVO Street Glide I put 21500 miles on trouble free, the 18 CVO road glide I put 24750 trouble free milers on and now the 19 CVO Road Glide.
The 117 is stronger than the 114, much stronger than 3" would let you believe. It has to do with a better cam.
Can it sump, yes they can. My 18 might have once as it lost power, slowed down and cruised for a bit, and all was normal. I am hoping the new pump, back plate and seal fixes the sumping issue.
I am going to ride this one a year then most likely build the motor. If it sumps, which I do not think it will, T-man has one fix for it and S&S has a different fix.
I like the feel of the M8 better than the TC. Power comes on earlier, and smoother. I still have two TC bikes.
"the new pump, back plate and seal"
Just getting up to speed after purchasing a '19 CVO SG last week. Are those thing you added, or the changes to the new '19 year model engines?
Thanks,
Chris
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"the new pump, back plate and seal"
Just getting up to speed after purchasing a '19 CVO SG last week. Are those thing you added, or the changes to the new '19 year model engines? that is a change HD has done to 'fix' the sump issue
Thanks,
Chris
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Roger that, thanks for the info.
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Dave thank for your input. After much thought and a lot of research I am going to take delivery of the bike. I am also going to leave it stock for a few months and most likely won't put very many miles on it. After I break 1K I am going to pull the motor apart and do a mild build with S&S parts. I might even take it to 124 or 131 CI. I liked the Road Glide when I rode it but I like the protection from the elements better on my Limited. Looking forward to finally buying an M8.
Be Safe
THE DAWG
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Dave thank for your input. After much thought and a lot of research I am going to take delivery of the bike. I am also going to leave it stock for a few months and most likely won't put very many miles on it. After I break 1K I am going to pull the motor apart and do a mild build with S&S parts. I might even take it to 124 or 131 CI. I liked the Road Glide when I rode it but I like the protection from the elements better on my Limited. Looking forward to finally buying an M8.
Be Safe
THE DAWG
Good for you.... congrats on the new bike. Must say they’re very sharp looking bikes !
As far as sumping goes.... ride it , when it fails; warranty. Then build a motor to your liking. Life’s too short. Just my 2 cents...
Joe
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Dave thank for your input. After much thought and a lot of research I am going to take delivery of the bike. I am also going to leave it stock for a few months and most likely won't put very many miles on it. After I break 1K I am going to pull the motor apart and do a mild build with S&S parts. I might even take it to 124 or 131 CI. I liked the Road Glide when I rode it but I like the protection from the elements better on my Limited. Looking forward to finally buying an M8.
Be Safe
THE DAWG
I like the Handling both high speed and parking lot speed of the Road Glide much better than the bat wing. That said your are correct, the Limited offers much more protection from the elements. Now my CVO Road Glide Ultra I had for two year, protection from the elements was close to a limited, but still not quite as good. That said I have done many 1000 mile days on a CVO Road Glide. Finding the right windshield is a big help.
I like your plan with the engine. I'm gathering parts now. However I will wait until winter to go into the motor. I want at least one 6000 mile trip on the bike before I go into it. It will most likely be a 128, or a Suburban Speed 130, which will be released soon. Of course I expect Fuel moto to follow suit shortly after. I am wanting to see the kits offer a little more compression than they are right now.
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Dave thank for your input. After much thought and a lot of research I am going to take delivery of the bike. I am also going to leave it stock for a few months and most likely won't put very many miles on it. After I break 1K I am going to pull the motor apart and do a mild build with S&S parts. I might even take it to 124 or 131 CI. I liked the Road Glide when I rode it but I like the protection from the elements better on my Limited. Looking forward to finally buying an M8.
Be Safe
I have the same bike and it just turned 1K yesterday and i have all had 0 issues! 128 parts from S&S coming will post when it is done! CH
THE DAWG
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Dave thank for your input. After much thought and a lot of research I am going to take delivery of the bike. I am also going to leave it stock for a few months and most likely won't put very many miles on it. After I break 1K I am going to pull the motor apart and do a mild build with S&S parts. I might even take it to 124 or 131 CI. I liked the Road Glide when I rode it but I like the protection from the elements better on my Limited. Looking forward to finally buying an M8.
Be Safe
THE DAWG
Agree with your choice. After all the concern I've held about my purchase, my 2018 CVO limited is at 10k miles since last July and I'm happy with the power, comfort, ride, and looks. I've had a few sumping episodes, but once I read the articles on the topic in American Iron I've learned I can avoid sumping and still enjoy a great ride. I'll stay stock until the warranty is over, however. Just in case.
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I agree.
My first M8, I’m now on #5, sumped after the stage 3 was installed. My dealer bought it back. They changed the oil pump and sold it to some other guy. None of my other M8’s have sumped, but only one of those did I go inside of. On the 2018 Road Glide, I did a cam, pipe, air cleaner, and tune. Installed by me and tuned by my dealer. My current M8, I believe it’s transfering transmission fluid. Tomorrow my new clutch rod arrives and that will taken care of.
Honestly, I don’t have to justify squat to anyone, and I won’t. I’m just reporting what I find.
Just read this thread and seeing your transmission oil migration say a new clutch rod will fix the problem, just asking is that a harley part or aftermarket and if so do you know the part number. I have the same problem on my 19 CVO Ultra and would love to resolve the problem.
Thanks in advance.
Gary
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Just read this thread and seeing your transmission oil migration say a new clutch rod will fix the problem, just asking is that a harley part or aftermarket and if so do you know the part number. I have the same problem on my 19 CVO Ultra and would love to resolve the problem.
Thanks in advance.
Gary
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I put the larger, aftermarket push rod in mine. I had surgery to repair an herniated internal part of a disc and external part of a disc (on the same disc). So, I only put about 100 miles on it, prior to the surgery. I expect to be riding next week...
Chris
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I put the larger, aftermarket push rod in mine. I had surgery to repair an herniated internal part of a disc and external part of a disc (on the same disc). So, I only put about 100 miles on it, prior to the surgery. I expect to be riding next week...
Chris
Sorry to hear about your herniated disc, hope you have a speedy recovery. Where would I find a larger push rod and who makes it?
Gary
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Where would I find a larger push rod and who makes it?
Gary
https://www.facebook.com/groups/566029816933140/permalink/1037490579787059/
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My 2019 CVO SG sumped today, currently waiting for the report from the dealer on what is going on.
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Bob, I have almost the exact same story including having another bike with a 124 in it. As we speak the 19 Roadglide they gave me to replace the 17 Streetglide that sumped 3 times is at the shop now while they try and replicate my sumping as well. insanely frustrating..
Are you guys letting your bike idle on the jiffy stand for a long period of time for warm up. Just curious?
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Are you guys letting your bike idle on the jiffy stand for a long period of time for warm up. Just curious?
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I let mine worm up on the jiffy, then back it out of the garage idling and have not had a problem. I do shut it down standing up and let idle for about 30 second prior to shut down. It takes me a bit to get out of the garage, maneuvering around the cars so I figure it is plenty of time for the oil to catch back up.
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HDAU and the dealer got back to me. I'm getting a replacement engine shipped from the USA to Australia.
Happy with that outcome, now to see if they cover car hire and motel costs so the missus and u can get home.
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I let mine worm up on the jiffy, then back it out of the garage idling and have not had a problem. I do shut it down standing up and let idle for about 30 second prior to shut down. It takes me a bit to get out of the garage, maneuvering around the cars so I figure it is plenty of time for the oil to catch back up.
always
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Seriously?
I hope you are not thinking your left foot down, tongue out, AND to the right, blip the throttle 4 times, pinch butt cheeks technique before warm up or shut down is the cure to sumping.
We all know that oil sumping is caused by having too much air pressure in your rear shocks. Too much air in the rear shocks causes a forward center of gravity and that results in the oil being pushed forward in the pan. Also it is suspected, that this really is only a problem if you are a "heavy brake user".
I never use heavy braking!
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Seriously?
I hope you are not thinking your left foot down, tongue out, AND to the right, blip the throttle 4 times, pinch butt cheeks technique before warm up or shut down is the cure to sumping.
We all know that oil sumping is caused by having to much air pressure in your rear shocks. Too much air in the rear shocks causes a forward center of gravity and that results in the oil being pushed forward in the pan. Also it is suspected, that this really is only a problem if you are a "heavy brake user".
I never use heavy braking!
Local dealer has said some of the oil issues MAY be caused from too high RPM, too Low RPM, to much “lugging” improper shifting/riding style, too heavy of a load (sorry honey) moon to close to the earth, pick your own excuse.
Funny thing is none of my older bikes had ANY of these issues. My riding style if nothing else is way more conservative than 20 yrs ago.
Hmmmmm.......maybe THATS the answer!
8)
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Seriously?
I hope you are not thinking your left foot down, tongue out, AND to the right, blip the throttle 4 times, pinch butt cheeks technique before warm up or shut down is the cure to sumping.
We all know that oil sumping is caused by having to much air pressure in your rear shocks. Too much air in the rear shocks causes a forward center of gravity and that results in the oil being pushed forward in the pan. Also it is suspected, that this really is only a problem if you are a "heavy brake user".
I never use heavy braking!
I thought this was only with a tailwind? :nixweiss:
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I thought this was only with a tailwind? :nixweiss:
Specifically, a tailwind blowing towards Milwaukee.
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Specifically, a tailwind blowing towards Milwaukee.
I remember the specification for that. The FartFactor. Has a tolerance of 1.5 qt/mph.
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I remember the specification for that. The FartFactor. Has a tolerance of 1.5 qt/mph.
Oh, I hate those type of blowouts. I have changed many a pair of pants due unexpected debris. :oops: :nixweiss:
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I have a 2019 with a Stage 3. I have a little over 2,000 miles and my bike has been in the shop 2 times already. The first it happened, I was just out for a routine ride. Entered the freeway, quickly lost power and engine brake began to happen. I called the dealership and they picked it up. The next day they told me they test drove for nearly an hour and no issues. 1 week later, out on another ride, actually back from the dealership. Same thing. This time, I drove it back while the issue was still occurring. Tech drove it and said it was lagging a bit. I'm surely regretting adding the Stage 3 kit. I bought this bike to do a lot of cross country traveling. Don't have any confidence in this bike at all. Thinking hard about trading the damn thing in and just getting a regular 114. Some thoughts of buying Indian Roadmaster. Sucks that a bike that's 1.5 months old has stayed in the shop. Wife rags on me, "too bad your new bike is in the shop, great day to ride". Anybody know of a real fix to this solution. A buddy of mine said he had the same issue, and he said screw warranty and he put Feuling Oil Pump and cam backplate on and it resolved the issue. Kinda hate to screw the warranty this early in the game.
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I have a 2019 with a Stage 3. I have a little over 2,000 miles and my bike has been in the shop 2 times already. The first it happened, I was just out for a routine ride. Entered the freeway, quickly lost power and engine brake began to happen. I called the dealership and they picked it up. The next day they told me they test drove for nearly an hour and no issues. 1 week later, out on another ride, actually back from the dealership. Same thing. This time, I drove it back while the issue was still occurring. Tech drove it and said it was lagging a bit. I'm surely regretting adding the Stage 3 kit. I bought this bike to do a lot of cross country traveling. Don't have any confidence in this bike at all. Thinking hard about trading the damn thing in and just getting a regular 114. Some thoughts of buying Indian Roadmaster. Sucks that a bike that's 1.5 months old has stayed in the shop. Wife rags on me, "too bad your new bike is in the shop, great day to ride". Anybody know of a real fix to this solution. A buddy of mine said he had the same issue, and he said screw warranty and he put Feuling Oil Pump and cam backplate on and it resolved the issue. Kinda hate to screw the warranty this early in the game.
Just curious...if you bought an air conditioning unit from brand X that was touted as their top of the line unit, that cost a small fortune, and it failed twice while under warranty, would you replace it with the same brand? I'm guessing not, but it's your money.