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Author Topic: Dark Side CVO's?  (Read 13560 times)

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PFWiz

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Dark Side CVO's?
« on: November 04, 2017, 08:56:42 PM »

Anybody out there riding their CVO on the Dark Side?

While my 2018 is not due till sometime next year I would be surprised if I make it for entire season without swapping over.

For those of you who are gonna tell me that I am going to spontaneously combust, or that it just plain doesn't work save your breath I had nearly 35,000 trouble free Dark Side miles on FLTRU.
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Para Bellum

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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2017, 01:37:40 AM »

Dark side of the moon?   :nixweiss:
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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2017, 02:58:15 AM »

We just cant seem to find an 18 inch tire.  Having to buy a 16 inch wheel just to run Dark is silly.
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PFWiz

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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2017, 03:41:36 AM »

2012s had a 18 rear wheel???
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PFWiz

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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2017, 08:46:11 AM »

This is the rear tire spec for my soon to come limited CVO - 180/65B16 81H.

But now I see that your 2012 specs are as follows - 180/55B-18 80H....

I am not sure what is available in 18".
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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2017, 09:11:15 AM »


I suppose if you just ride in a straight line it probably won't hurt to run an automotive radial tire, but from an engineering standpoint it is not a wise modification.  The benefits claimed by all those Gold Wing riders about improved tire wear and fewer tire failures might be due to the comparison to the stock Honda tires, which have a significantly lower load rating compared to what will come on your new Harley.

The whole idea started way back in the 50's and 60's on "choppers", because tire companies didn't make wide tires for bikes back then.  Considering how evil the handling was on a severely raked out front end, I guess the chopper riders didn't mind that the car tires sucked for anything other than straight line low speed cruising.  Try some high speed cornering and the pucker factor increased exponentially.  Thanks, but no thanks.

Jerry
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PFWiz

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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2017, 11:41:32 AM »

I suppose if you just ride in a straight line it probably won't hurt to run an automotive radial tire, but from an engineering standpoint it is not a wise modification.  The benefits claimed by all those Gold Wing riders about improved tire wear and fewer tire failures might be due to the comparison to the stock Honda tires, which have a significantly lower load rating compared to what will come on your new Harley.

The whole idea started way back in the 50's and 60's on "choppers", because tire companies didn't make wide tires for bikes back then.  Considering how evil the handling was on a severely raked out front end, I guess the chopper riders didn't mind that the car tires sucked for anything other than straight line low speed cruising.  Try some high speed cornering and the pucker factor increased exponentially.  Thanks, but no thanks.

Jerry

As usual someone who has never done it is going to tell someone with 35,000 successful miles on a HD full bagger that it does not work. Yeah, I am going believe someone who is just guessing over my own anecdotal evidence. Don't forget to tell me about the part where I will spontaneously combust because of this.

I have ridden the Dragon, the  Cherohala Skyway, Ohio's 555 and many more with my CT. Can I keep up with the Rice Rockets? No, but then neither can anyone else riding a full dress bagger. No one in my group has ever had to wait for my bike when riding roads like these.

So once again, before you tell anyone something you have never tried to do is impossible maybe you should just save yourself the embarrassment and keep your trap shut....
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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2017, 01:42:05 PM »

As usual someone who has never done it is going to tell someone with 35,000 successful miles on a HD full bagger that it does not work. Yeah, I am going believe someone who is just guessing over my own anecdotal evidence. Don't forget to tell me about the part where I will spontaneously combust because of this.

I have ridden the Dragon, the  Cherohala Skyway, Ohio's 555 and many more with my CT. Can I keep up with the Rice Rockets? No, but then neither can anyone else riding a full dress bagger. No one in my group has ever had to wait for my bike when riding roads like these.

So once again, before you tell anyone something you have never tried to do is impossible maybe you should just save yourself the embarrassment and keep your trap shut....

Bless you PFWiz, you are truly one with the “Dark Side”.
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PFWiz

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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2017, 01:48:08 PM »

Bless you PFWiz, you are truly one with the “Dark Side”.

I am, aren't I?  :coolblue:
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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2017, 02:53:34 PM »

As usual someone who has never done it is going to tell someone with 35,000 successful miles on a HD full bagger that it does not work. Yeah, I am going believe someone who is just guessing over my own anecdotal evidence. Don't forget to tell me about the part where I will spontaneously combust because of this.

I have ridden the Dragon, the  Cherohala Skyway, Ohio's 555 and many more with my CT. Can I keep up with the Rice Rockets? No, but then neither can anyone else riding a full dress bagger. No one in my group has ever had to wait for my bike when riding roads like these.

So once again, before you tell anyone something you have never tried to do is impossible maybe you should just save yourself the embarrassment and keep your trap shut....

You assume much, grasshopper.  I guess you are much like those other people who bad mouth me because I piss all over their suggestions to run tires with much lower than stock load ratings.  I would suggest you educate yourself on the differences in design principles for automotive versus motorcycle tires, but I'm guessing I'd be wasting my time.  You are obviously another one of those folks who think they know more than the engineers and scientists. 

Jerry
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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2017, 04:08:59 PM »

You assume much, grasshopper.  I guess you are much like those other people who bad mouth me because I piss all over their suggestions to run tires with much lower than stock load ratings.  I would suggest you educate yourself on the differences in design principles for automotive versus motorcycle tires, but I'm guessing I'd be wasting my time.  You are obviously another one of those folks who think they know more than the engineers and scientists. 

Jerry
You're wasting your time, Jerry.  I had a dude a few years ago that wanted to argue with me online about how "countersteering" was made up and didn't exist. I just wished him good luck and let it go, lol!
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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2017, 04:22:11 PM »

You assume much, grasshopper.  I guess you are much like those other people who bad mouth me because I piss all over their suggestions to run tires with much lower than stock load ratings.  I would suggest you educate yourself on the differences in design principles for automotive versus motorcycle tires, but I'm guessing I'd be wasting my time.  You are obviously another one of those folks who think they know more than the engineers and scientists. 

Jerry

You're wasting your time, Jerry.  I had a dude a few years ago that wanted to argue with me online about how "countersteering" was made up and didn't exist. I just wished him good luck and let it go, lol!

The OP stated in his first post that he has over 35k miles running a CT on his previous bike.  Was simply asking if anyone else on here was doing it and our resident grouch had to offer his opinion on it. Many times  GRC has provided great info and most people appreciate it. This time is not one of them though.

If you don't like the thread, move along. Pretty damn simple concept.
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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2017, 04:30:22 PM »

This is the rear tire spec for my soon to come limited CVO - 180/65B16 81H.

But now I see that your 2012 specs are as follows - 180/55B-18 80H....

I am not sure what is available in 18".

I'm not surprised that the CVO no longer has the 18in rear wheel.  So many of the things that make the "older" CVO's what I will call REAL CVO's no longer exist.  They are built on the same assembly line as the non CVO-bikes.  I'm not real sure, but I think paint and the 117 motor are about the only thing, perhaps wheels.

I too have loved my darkside equipped bikes, my Valkyrie with over 44,000 miles and my Vulcan 2000 with nearly 36,000 miles. --almost all of them in the Rocky Mountains.  I never once had a problem that I would attribute to the profile or shape of the tire, nor did I ever have any issues with the bead or the sidewall.  I sure loved to leave the wide black mark on the blacktop that the Vulcan would do when it would smoke that car tire.

My sister talks to me about riding a Motorcycle the same way some folks insist car tires are a death trap.


We accept a certain amount of risk in everything that we do and we weigh that risk against whatever perceived rewards we seek.  The OP was not seeking anyone's opinion on his decision to run a car tire, and to insert it into the conversation is unwarranted and rude.

It's a CAR Tire....we know that.  It was not designed to run on a motorcycle....we know that.

How many of us run automobile oil in our motorcycles instead of motorcycle oil?  Or a different size tire on our car or truck?

Anyway --->PFWiz, here is the link to the database of tires that have been reported to fit.  Lots of HD FLH bikes with 16inch tires fitted.

http://darkside.nwff.info/?p=tires


My only suggestion is to get one a tiny bit narrower that the widest one that will fit, and make sure it is a run-flat design.

Ride Safe (Manage your risk).
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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2017, 07:25:19 PM »

I had the opportunity to ride a DarkSide bike, it belonged to one of the riders in my class. He liked to ride coast to coast non stop eating Skittles, and drinking RedBull all the way.

In a straight line his bike felt solid. Running the weave at 14 feet was a challenge. I felt myself having to wrestle the bike up off the flat bottom up onto the corner, or edge to go around a cone, then back down onto the flat bottom, then up onto the edge on the other side to go around the next cone. I was unable to do it when the cones were 12 feet apart.

In the circle I could not achieve full lock with a hard inside lean. The bike kept wanting to tip back outside.  During the times I did get it up on the edge, I had a teetering sensation. I was unable to do the offset as the quick back and forth quick handlebar transition needed to negotiate the exercise came too slowly. I could not flick the bike back and forth, side to side. The full lock U-Turn from a standing stop went wide and upright.

He and I talked about it for a while, and for what he wanted to do, the car tire served him well. He wanted to buy one tire, make it last for several seasons, and run super slab all the time. With the amount of miles he racks up, he didn't want to be bothered with having to change tires several times in the riding season.

Now that's my experience, and it was very limited. For anybody who rides DarkSide and swears by it, go for it. Enjoy. I was curious to know that since you like running a car tire on the rear, have you ever considered running one on the front too? If not, why? You would get the same extra long life out of the front that you do with the rear, with no fear of cupping whatsoever.
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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2017, 09:00:45 PM »

Just curious, but why would you get better mileage with a CT?

Also, how does CT channel the water while cornering when riding in the rain?

To be honest, this the first time I’ve heard of “The Dark Side”

Cat
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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #16 on: November 05, 2017, 09:02:10 PM »

I had the opportunity to ride a DarkSide bike, it belonged to one of the riders in my class. He liked to ride coast to coast non stop eating Skittles, and drinking RedBull all the way.

In a straight line his bike felt solid. Running the weave at 14 feet was a challenge. I felt myself having to wrestle the bike up off the flat bottom up onto the corner, or edge to go around a cone, then back down onto the flat bottom, then up onto the edge on the other side to go around the next cone. I was unable to do it when the cones were 12 feet apart.

In the circle I could not achieve full lock with a hard inside lean. The bike kept wanting to tip back outside.  During the times I did get it up on the edge, I had a teetering sensation. I was unable to do the offset as the quick back and forth quick handlebar transition needed to negotiate the exercise came too slowly. I could not flick the bike back and forth, side to side. The full lock U-Turn from a standing stop went wide and upright.

He and I talked about it for a while, and for what he wanted to do, the car tire served him well. He wanted to buy one tire, make it last for several seasons, and run super slab all the time. With the amount of miles he racks up, he didn't want to be bothered with having to change tires several times in the riding season.

Now that's my experience, and it was very limited. For anybody who rides DarkSide and swears by it, go for it. Enjoy. I was curious to know that since you like running a car tire on the rear, have you ever considered running one on the front too? If not, why? You would get the same extra long life out of the front that you do with the rear, with no fear of cupping whatsoever.

Front tire options are very limited. It's possible and there are some folks doing it, it's called Double Dark. I never really ran a car tire because of the increased mileage alone, but it was nice.

As for the MSF range, I can imagine that would be a tough ride.  But I guess you didn't crash or edplode into a ball of light. You didn't like it, but it didn't kill you.

I taught for the MSF from 1984ish to 1991....my last class was in Seoul Korea. I was never any good at lock to lock turns on any bike.  But in my some 51 years riding, those exercises on the range were the only time I ever did a weave or figure 8s in a box.  Now stopping in a turn and the countersteering exercise was a blast.
I even had a great exercise for the inevitable gorilla that insisted that helmets hurt more than they help:

Gorilla: The weight of the helmet moment of inertia or momentum will break your neck in a crash.
Me:  Ok, come sit in this chair and wear this helmet and let me hit you in the head with this baseball bat.
Gorilla: Oh no, the momentum times the speed of the bat squared plus the weight of the brain bla bla bla will result in a broken neck.
Me:  Okay, take the helmet off and let me hit you.
Gorilla:   (dumb look).
End of lesson.

If darksiders were that dangerous the insurance companies would raise up as would the state lawmakers and the FEDS.  Texas has mandated a handhold for all passengers and it is a misdemeanor if you don't have one. Don't take that ugly seat strap off.  And no, the backrest is not a hand hold.

Ride Safe.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2017, 09:10:38 PM by r0de_runr »
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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #17 on: November 05, 2017, 09:06:31 PM »

Just curious, but why would you get better mileage with a CT?

Also, how does CT channel the water while cornering when riding in the rain?

To be honest, this the first time I’ve heard of “The Dark Side”

Cat

Sparks fly in the Tail of the Drag, but the rider does not self-destruct.  Look at the contact patch, it is probably always larger that if on a motorcycle tire.



Sipes will still channel water away.  Stopping power on dry is very very good, and on wet is still better than the motorcycle tire.

If you search youtube for dark side videos you can find all the answers to these questions in video form.  Look for cameras mounted where you can see the tire under load like blasting up the Tail of the Dragon.
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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #18 on: November 05, 2017, 09:10:01 PM »

You assume much, grasshopper.  I guess you are much like those other people who bad mouth me because I piss all over their suggestions to run tires with much lower than stock load ratings.  I would suggest you educate yourself on the differences in design principles for automotive versus motorcycle tires, but I'm guessing I'd be wasting my time.  You are obviously another one of those folks who think they know more than the engineers and scientists. 

Jerry

OMG  You are right! CTs don't work on bikes!

I guess I never really rode the Dragon (5 or 6 times) on a car tire. I guess I never rode down the backside of the Cherohala Skyway in a heavy thunderstorm with the wife on the back passing bike after bike because CTs are amazing in the rain. Why if it wasn't for you setting me straight I would have thought I had 35,000 trouble free Dark Side miles on my 2011 FLTRU.

I don't know how I can thank you enough! Without your sage guidance I would thought that the time the pickup pulled out right in front of me that the immense amount of rubber my CT put on the road was all that allowed my panic stop to miss the truck.

Wait a minute, I just remembered, I never asked anyone's opinion about the Dark Side. I merely asked if any one else here was doing it. You could have simply answered "Not me., but instead you felt compelled to HIJACK MY THREAD so that you dispense your wisdom that you seem to believe no one can live without.

So how about this? Go away and find some noob that will believe  the garbage that you wisdom. I for one can do without it.

Thanks,
« Last Edit: November 05, 2017, 09:22:56 PM by PFWiz »
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r0de_runr

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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #19 on: November 05, 2017, 09:14:08 PM »

Just curious, but why would you get better mileage with a CT?


I forgot to answer your question.  Car tires have a different rubber compound. 
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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #20 on: November 05, 2017, 09:19:48 PM »

Double Dark is not 2 Car Tires. DD is a car tire on the back and a motorcycle rear tire on the front. The idea is get as much rubber on the rode as possible.

IMO car tires are far superior in the rain. It is easy to pick me out in the rain. I am the one passing the cages withe stereo blasting while I butt dance down the highway.

Car tires are less maneuverable at slow speeds like parking lots and they will fight to make the bike follow the crown of the road.... Nothing is perfect.
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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #21 on: November 05, 2017, 09:56:40 PM »

Double Dark is not 2 Car Tires. DD is a car tire on the back and a motorcycle rear tire on the front. The idea is get as much rubber on the rode as possible.

IMO car tires are far superior in the rain. It is easy to pick me out in the rain. I am the one passing the cages withe stereo blasting while I butt dance down the highway.

Car tires are less maneuverable at slow speeds like parking lots and they will fight to make the bike follow the crown of the road.... Nothing is perfect.



SUGGESTION: 
I see you’re new to this forum...

To me that means you should take some time to try and get to know the members who have been riding for many years and exchanging their experiences both professional and motorcycle related with each other in a respectful way.

Yes you are entitled to your opinions especially on this subject where you may be a majority of one. So I’m not trying to argue with you but I am trying to get you to get along and be respectful of the other members. 


NOW TO YOUR QUESTION

I have ridden on a rear street tire extensively on early model Boss Hosses. They didn’t make a motorcycle tire for that bike early on. I didn’t feel safe on corners or wet roads since I was riding in he side wall with no tread.

Your video highlights another issue. The “patch” you ride on with a street car tire is comparatively small since the flat tire will lift in turns and reduce the contact area. Comparatively a motorcycle tire by design has more sidewall tread for contact. Now we both know that on wet leaves and roadways both are challenging.

So if you asked me which I would prefer it would be the motorcycle tire configuration by a long shot.

BTW: Lke many here, I have ridden over 36 of my own motorcycles in hail, snow, rain, extremely high wind, hurricanes and blowing sand for over 50 years now and NEVER been down. My preference is sun, cool to warm weather and friends like the members here to share experiences with.

I truly hope you come to value your membership as well.

Best regards
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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #22 on: November 05, 2017, 10:58:25 PM »

You seriously consider anything on a Boss Hoss to represent anything else in the world? Really?

Using your logic all motorcycles must be extremely heavy and hard to ride slow. Because I once rode a Boss Hoss and it was like that so all motorcycle must be like that.... The Boss Hoss I rode had no bags so no built motorcycles must have any storage space. sheesh...

Lots of silly folks on this forum.....
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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #23 on: November 05, 2017, 11:04:16 PM »

Seriously, all I asked was is anyone running a CT on their CVO?

I did not ask, "do you approve of car tires on bikes?"
I did not ask "do you know someone who knows someone who heard that some engineer does not like car tires?"
I did not ask " do you think I suffer fools gladly?"

How about someone actually try to ATFQ!

Really is that really asking too much?
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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #24 on: November 05, 2017, 11:58:21 PM »

Not really.  Plus, it beats asking anybody if they run motorcycle tires on their car.
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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #25 on: November 06, 2017, 12:08:31 AM »

I don't. Does that answer your question?
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MightyTharg

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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #26 on: November 06, 2017, 03:08:55 AM »

No and I wouldn't bother, unless I went back to a sidecar outfit.  I wouldn't run a traditional sidecar tyre on a solo motorcycle either. 

I could add more but you might consider me "silly".
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ultrarider123

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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #27 on: November 06, 2017, 07:27:35 AM »

Seriously, all I asked was is anyone running a CT on their CVO?


Anyone?  For me that would be no sir....

.....but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last evening.... ;D

.....Oh wait, you didn't ask that.  Sorry to intrude. (couldnthepmyself)

Now back to the regular, scheduled thread....

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ultrarider123

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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #28 on: November 06, 2017, 07:32:23 AM »

Not really.  Plus, it beats asking anybody if they run motorcycle tires on their car.

Now that's just silly....motorcycle tires on a car.... :huepfenjump3:
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iski

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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #29 on: November 06, 2017, 08:03:58 AM »

Now that's just silly....motorcycle tires on a car.... :huepfenjump3:

 ;D  Indeed.  Somebody forgot to put a 4th wheel on that car.   :huepfenlol2:
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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #30 on: November 06, 2017, 08:15:33 AM »

Somebody say 4th tire?
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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #31 on: November 06, 2017, 08:36:25 AM »

As for the MSF range, I can imagine that would be a tough ride.  But I guess you didn't crash or edplode into a ball of light. You didn't like it, but it didn't kill you.

It wasn't MSF, it was a Ride Like a Pro course. And no I didn't explode or crash, but I didn't feel safe. It's not the kind of thing I would use to enter a police rodeo. Speaking only for myself, I like the ability to quickly maneuver in tight quarters with bars locked and leaned over. Parking lots, narrow streets and alleys, tight driveways, and of course steep hills. Like I said for those that love the endless miles of the straight, flat, superslab, racking up the miles, I could see how a car tire in the rear would be enticing.

If you ever get a car tire mounted on the front, let us know how it is. We'd love to hear your feedback on it.
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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #32 on: November 06, 2017, 08:58:50 AM »

Seriously, all I asked was is anyone running a CT on their CVO?

I did not ask, "do you approve of car tires on bikes?"
I did not ask "do you know someone who knows someone who heard that some engineer does not like car tires?"
I did not ask " do you think I suffer fools gladly?"

How about someone actually try to ATFQ!

Really is that really asking too much?

Actually, you asked about running the Dark Side and didn't define what that is.  But lord forbid we point out things like that to the worlds foremost expert on tires, or post a reply that explains what is is to other people reading your thread.

No, I do not run car tires on my motorcycle.  I have ridden a bike belonging to someone else that had a car tire on the rear, and the experience was similar to what Ironhorse posted.  The reason I don't and won't run a car tire on my motorcycle is because I am an engineer and I do know why car tires and motorcycle tires are designed differently.  Anyone, including people with "wiz" in their screen name, who doesn't care for my information or opinion please feel free to ignore any and all of my posts. 

Jerry
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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #33 on: November 06, 2017, 10:15:48 AM »

Actually, you asked about running the Dark Side and didn't define what that is.  But lord forbid we point out things like that to the worlds foremost expert on tires, or post a reply that explains what is is to other people reading your thread.

No, I do not run car tires on my motorcycle.  I have ridden a bike belonging to someone else that had a car tire on the rear, and the experience was similar to what Ironhorse posted.  The reason I don't and won't run a car tire on my motorcycle is because I am an engineer and I do know why car tires and motorcycle tires are designed differently.  Anyone, including people with "wiz" in their screen name, who doesn't care for my information or opinion please feel free to ignore any and all of my posts. 

Jerry

And I am the senior engineer for a super cooled cyclotron emitting 250 MEV Protons at .61C. So your "I am an engineer" shtick means nothing to me.

As for the question I posed it was "Anybody out there riding their CVO on the Dark Side?". Why do I need to define it? If you do it then you know what it is and conversely if you don't know what it means then you most certainly don't do it.

Sure are a lot of folks on this forum who want to hijack threads....
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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #34 on: November 06, 2017, 10:23:34 AM »

Ok Wiz, I support you riding on a car tire, did it myself.

I thought when I first saw your post here on CVO you had the same problem as I did with the 18 inch rear wheel.

But You know what's up with the dark side and don't really want anyone's opinion here.

You have a 16 inch rear wheel, many of us have an 18......  So even if we wanted to, we can't.

https://www.hdforums.com/forum/the-dark-side/896328-gone-to-the-dark-side-ongoing-review.html
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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #35 on: November 06, 2017, 10:24:38 AM »

Have you tried surfing the many Dark Side forums? I’m sure you will find many more riders like yourself who have found that running car tires on a motorcycle suits their needs. If anything it will save you from having to explain, justify and support your reasons.

Just an idea.
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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #36 on: November 06, 2017, 11:00:20 AM »

Seriously, all I asked was is anyone running a CT on their CVO?

I did not ask, "do you approve of car tires on bikes?"
I did not ask "do you know someone who knows someone who heard that some engineer does not like car tires?"
I did not ask " do you think I suffer fools gladly?"

How about someone actually try to ATFQ!

Really is that really asking too much?

PFWiz, sorry that your thread went sideways. I have ridden bikes for most all of my life and never tried it. I have heard of it being done though, and like many things just figured “to each there own.” This is supposed to be a free country.
I do remember when I was in my pre-teens/early teens racing without the cash to just replace endless tires that I would take a razor blade and by hand square off the knobbies on the tires just to try and get the most traction. Traction is always a good thing.

As far as some of the grief you have gotten in this thread… I do have a opinion on that!

You assume much, grasshopper.  I guess you are much like those other people who bad mouth me because I piss all over their suggestions to run tires with much lower than stock load ratings.  I would suggest you educate yourself on the differences in design principles for automotive versus motorcycle tires, but I'm guessing I'd be wasting my time.  You are obviously another one of those folks who think they know more than the engineers and scientists. 

Jerry

Actually, you asked about running the Dark Side and didn't define what that is.  But lord forbid we point out things like that to the worlds foremost expert on tires, or post a reply that explains what is is to other people reading your thread.

No, I do not run car tires on my motorcycle.  I have ridden a bike belonging to someone else that had a car tire on the rear, and the experience was similar to what Ironhorse posted.  The reason I don't and won't run a car tire on my motorcycle is because I am an engineer and I do know why car tires and motorcycle tires are designed differently.  Anyone, including people with "wiz" in their screen name, who doesn't care for my information or opinion please feel free to ignore any and all of my posts

Jerry


This forum similarly reflects our society in that there is a lot of hypocrisy being represented. Unfortunately, hypocrisy is also very prevalent out in the media today.

I am also an engineer (also have some published first author scientific papers) but unlike GRC I do not feel the need to spew a steady stream of venomous anti-HD opinions on this forum. I also would not in one sentence denigrate a member for not accepting the “knowledge” of engineers and scientists, and simultaneously put out a steady stream of opinions doing JUST EXACTLY THAT against the Moco engineers and scientists.

I know GRC also says anyone can just “filter out” his opinions if they don’t like them, and he has even mentioned that is exactly what he does with mine (that really hurts BTW)! Again, unlike GRC I actually listen to BOTH sides and alternate opinions. Even in the media. Admittedly, it sometimes feels like I am listening to the sound of fingernails being dragged down a chalkboard, but I force myself to consider alternate opinions. Sometimes those opinions may even be correct.

PFWiz, I understand how you can get irritated by some posts… I do too. It is just part of life. :)

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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #37 on: November 06, 2017, 11:06:18 AM »



This forum similarly reflects our society in that there is a lot of hypocrisy being represented. Unfortunately, hypocrisy is also very prevalent out in the media today.

Or, as I have gleaned from the "knowledge of the interner over the past couple of decades +"  - Stereotypes can be a real time saver. 
                  or.......
Place in box, label, and close lid.

 ;D
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ultrarider123

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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #38 on: November 06, 2017, 11:14:02 AM »

 ;D
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HighOnHD

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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #39 on: November 06, 2017, 01:20:35 PM »



;D

Haird I was just trying to prevent the high school bullying sort of thing.

Also "Know-It-All" types give me a case of the red-a$$.

Sorry. :)

Or, as I have gleaned from the "knowledge of the interner over the past couple of decades +"  - Stereotypes can be a real time saver. 
                  or.......
Place in box, label, and close lid.

 ;D

Iski I believe you and I think along some of the same lines. Hopefully we are not the only two on this forum.  ;D
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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #40 on: November 06, 2017, 01:41:11 PM »

Which is why I suggested a search on Dark Side forums.
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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #41 on: November 06, 2017, 02:05:58 PM »

MODERATORS PLEASE SCRAP THIS ENTIRE THREAD.

ALL I TRIED TO DO IS TALK TIRES WITH LIKE MINDED CVO OWNERS. APPARENTLY THAT IS NOT ALLOWED ON THIS FORUM. i HAVE TRIED REPEATEDLY TO GET CERTAIN MEMBERS TO STOP HIJACKING MY THREAD,BUT NO JOY. I GUESS YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO DISCUSS ANYTHING THEY DON'T AGREE WITH.

ANYWAY LIKE i SAID PLEASE SCRAP THIS THREAD. I AM TIRED OF WRESTLING WITH PIGS IN THE MUD.

THANKS,

PFWIZ
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CVOStreetglide

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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #42 on: November 06, 2017, 02:24:50 PM »

MODERATORS PLEASE SCRAP THIS ENTIRE THREAD.

ALL I TRIED TO DO IS TALK TIRES WITH LIKE MINDED CVO OWNERS. APPARENTLY THAT IS NOT ALLOWED ON THIS FORUM. i HAVE TRIED REPEATEDLY TO GET CERTAIN MEMBERS TO STOP HIJACKING MY THREAD,BUT NO JOY. I GUESS YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO DISCUSS ANYTHING THEY DON'T AGREE WITH.

ANYWAY LIKE i SAID PLEASE SCRAP THIS THREAD. I AM TIRED OF WRESTLING WITH PIGS IN THE MUD.

THANKS,

PFWIZ


Sometimes a square peg really doesn’t fit in a round hole....

Does his mean you’re leaving??  Say it ain’t so..

We wuz hop’n to bring you over to our way of think’n...

All of us “Pigs” will put lipstick on if’n it’ll help.

 :nixweiss:  :nixweiss:
« Last Edit: November 06, 2017, 02:37:29 PM by CVOStreetglide »
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ultrarider123

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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #43 on: November 06, 2017, 02:28:26 PM »

...
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HighOnHD

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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #44 on: November 06, 2017, 03:05:44 PM »

...

Now that is funny right there! Or like you say write dare.  :)
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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #45 on: November 06, 2017, 03:26:54 PM »



Iski I believe you and I think along some of the same lines. Hopefully we are not the only two on this forum.  ;D

HighOnHD, although I do my best to try not to think, sometimes I still do & the next thing I know......it's not the next thing I know.  We most likely do.  Life is short, the time we waste use is valuable, it's more fun with a smile.

To tell ya the truth, I don't care if somebody runs tractor tires on a Sportster, much less run car tires on a bagger.  If it makes 'em happy & they don't run my ass over, great.

 ;D
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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #46 on: November 06, 2017, 04:24:40 PM »

I don't care if somebody runs tractor tires on a Sportster, much less run car tires on a bagger.  If it makes 'em happy & they don't run my ass over, great.
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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #47 on: November 06, 2017, 06:00:14 PM »

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HighOnHD

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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #48 on: November 06, 2017, 07:25:16 PM »



Now that looks like something to consider when old age sets in! Probably more fun to ride than a trike anyway.  ;D
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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #49 on: November 06, 2017, 08:10:14 PM »

How does that do in the Ride like a Pro course, and how far a part would the cones need to be  ;D
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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #50 on: November 06, 2017, 08:25:51 PM »

How does that do in the Ride like a Pro course, and how far a part would the cones need to be  ;D

Not a problem it just mows ‘em right down,...lol!
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Para Bellum

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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #51 on: November 07, 2017, 05:16:22 PM »

As for the question I posed it was "Anybody out there riding their CVO on the Dark Side?". Why do I need to define it? If you do it then you know what it is and conversely if you don't know what it means then you most certainly don't do it.
As one engineer to another, the hole in that logic is large enough to drive your cyclotron through.  That's the problem with asking questions that are just attempts to receive validation of your own decisions:  They aren't really about getting information.
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Cat Eye

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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #52 on: November 07, 2017, 05:58:32 PM »

For us simple Bikers

A cyclotron is a type of particle accelerator invented by Ernest O. Lawrence in 1934 in which charged particles accelerate outwards from the centre along a spiral path. The particles are held to a spiral trajectory by a static magnetic field and accelerated by a rapidly varying (radio frequency) electric field

Hope this clear this up.
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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #53 on: November 07, 2017, 06:45:00 PM »

For us simple Bikers

A cyclotron is a type of particle accelerator invented by Ernest O. Lawrence in 1934 in which charged particles accelerate outwards from the centre along a spiral path. The particles are held to a spiral trajectory by a static magnetic field and accelerated by a rapidly varying (radio frequency) electric field

Hope this clear this up.

So who makes it? Honda?  :P
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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #54 on: November 07, 2017, 06:50:28 PM »

So who makes it? Honda?  :P

Not sure, but I  hear it can roast one hell of a pistachio nut.

 :drink:
« Last Edit: November 07, 2017, 07:03:06 PM by Cat Eye »
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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #55 on: November 07, 2017, 10:17:38 PM »

Not sure, but I  hear it can roast one hell of a pistachio nut.

 :drink:

True, but if you do you will void your warranty.

 :drink:
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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #56 on: November 09, 2017, 12:44:13 AM »

Not sure, but I  hear it can roast one hell of a pistachio nut.

 :drink:
Not going to roast my chestnuts!  Not even one of them!   :o
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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #57 on: November 09, 2017, 12:13:33 PM »

Some of the remarks remind me of what went on here a few years ago, it was a small house cleaning and we lost some members that just has enough personal attacks.  Why look for a fight?  There are not allot of members that offer so much time and advice helping a wide variety of forum members.  I for one don't want to loose their input regardless of their position on certain subjects.  I just don't see why this post had to get so personal, can't we just read what we want and ignore what we want to without a verbal go around?  I might be wrong but it would not be the first time someone waits in the back ground ready to pounce in some kind of ambush setting. 

We don't need this.     
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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #58 on: November 09, 2017, 12:36:54 PM »

Some of the remarks remind me of what went on here a few years ago, it was a small house cleaning and we lost some members that just has enough personal attacks.  Why look for a fight?  There are not allot of members that offer so much time and advice helping a wide variety of forum members.  I for one don't want to loose their input regardless of their position on certain subjects.  I just don't see why this post had to get so personal, can't we just read what we want and ignore what we want to without a verbal go around?  I might be wrong but it would not be the first time someone waits in the back ground ready to pounce in some kind of ambush setting. 

We don't need this.   

Yep! What he said! :(
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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #59 on: October 02, 2019, 01:40:37 AM »

I suppose if you just ride in a straight line it probably won't hurt to run an automotive radial tire, but from an engineering standpoint it is not a wise modification.  The benefits claimed by all those Gold Wing riders about improved tire wear and fewer tire failures might be due to the comparison to the stock Honda tires, which have a significantly lower load rating compared to what will come on your new Harley.

The whole idea started way back in the 50's and 60's on "choppers", because tire companies didn't make wide tires for bikes back then.  Considering how evil the handling was on a severely raked out front end, I guess the chopper riders didn't mind that the car tires sucked for anything other than straight line low speed cruising.  Try some high speed cornering and the pucker factor increased exponentially.  Thanks, but no thanks.




fwiw car tires have been used on harleys since the 1920-'s at least.....

BTW I went darkside less than 24 hours before heading out on a 3k mile ride to idaho, wyoming, tetons, rockies, plains and back to Alabama this June.

spent the first 750 mile day making suspension adjustments at each fuel stop!

BTW I anticipated issues and added preload spacer in forks as well as thicker heavier fork oil..same day we installed the car tire..

Learned a lot, Put 7k miles on my 18 heritage 114 in less than 6 weeks.

Car tire worked great non the dragon, in the tetons or running 100mph from missouri to Idaho in 112* temps... Car tire REALLY REALLY REALLY worked well hitting gravel at 50mph in the wyoming boonies as well as massive heat rain showers SEVERAL afternoons.


Darkside is fun!!!

Jerry
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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #60 on: October 02, 2019, 10:58:36 AM »

Car tires on the back is old news. What I've been waiting for is someone go Full Dark Side and run car tires front and rear. Then they would NEVER have to change tires. It would be a win/win all the way around.

How about it, any Darksiders willing to go Full Dark Side?
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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #61 on: October 02, 2019, 11:33:02 AM »

Well I am running Darkside on my 14 CVO ultra so far about
4000 miles with out a single issue 205/60RF-16
Bridgestone DriveGuard  RunFlat .

 I guess you can check with some of the CVO owners that were
 chasing me or that I was following in the Valley last month to see if I had any
problems keeping up or hanging with some of the best riders I know 2 up thru the twistys.

Smoother ride   better mileage about 1/2 the braking distance better handling 
and stopping in the rain I could go on but you should get the point.

So now maybe some of experts out here that have NOT RODE DARKSIDE can list what they think is the down side.

So if you have not tried it.  Don't condemn it Because you DON"T KNOW
Remember there were Motorcycles around for MANY MANY MANY
years before there were specialty motorbike TIRES.

I Did not crash and burn and I got the COOKIES :drink: :drink: :orange: :orange:

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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #62 on: October 02, 2019, 11:56:56 AM »

Well I am running Darkside on my 14 CVO ultra so far about
4000 miles with out a single issue 205/60RF-16
Bridgestone DriveGuard  RunFlat .

 I guess you can check with some of the CVO owners that were
 chasing me or that I was following in the Valley last month to see if I had any
problems keeping up or hanging with some of the best riders I know 2 up thru the twistys.

Smoother ride   better mileage about 1/2 the braking distance better handling 
and stopping in the rain I could go on but you should get the point.

So now maybe some of experts out here that have NOT RODE DARKSIDE can list what they think is the down side.

So if you have not tried it.  Don't condemn it Because you DON"T KNOW
Remember there were Motorcycles around for MANY MANY MANY
years before there were specialty motorbike TIRES.

I Did not crash and burn and I got the COOKIES :drink: :drink: :orange: :orange:

Would you consider running a car tire on the front too? That way you can get the full benefit all the way around.
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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #63 on: October 02, 2019, 12:24:33 PM »

Car tires on the back is old news. What I've been waiting for is someone go Full Dark Side and run car tires front and rear. Then they would NEVER have to change tires. It would be a win/win all the way around.

How about it, any Darksiders willing to go Full Dark Side?
Now's your chance Mr Riding Instructor. With your skill set and training, you'd be the best to try this out in a controlled environment. Let us know the results... We'll be patiently waiting.

Sent from my boring Droid phone.

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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #64 on: October 02, 2019, 12:54:43 PM »

Now's your chance Mr Riding Instructor. With your skill set and training, you'd be the best to try this out in a controlled environment. Let us know the results... We'll be patiently waiting.

No thank you. I'm good with the way my bike is.

I ran a bike with a rear dark side through the course some years back, and both the owner and I struggled. The most difficult exercises were the ones with the bars at full lock and the bike leaned way over. But that's his choice to run his bike that way and I'm okay with that.

I'm just curious because I have never heard of one person going to the rear Dark Side and regretting it and changing it back to a motorcycle tire. They all rave about the mileage and handling. That being the case I'm just curious to know why no one has run a car tire up front, given all the benefits.
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ultrarider123

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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #65 on: October 02, 2019, 02:37:51 PM »

Mark, maybe because most front tires last longer than the back.  I know I try to swap out the back somewhere around 15,000 miles (whether it needs it or not) while the front can go 25 to 30,000.  I do a LOT of interstate riding but my bikes get quite a bit in the twisties, too.  The wear/cost benefits for a car tire on the front wouldn't be worth it to me but the wear and cost for the rear would.  Isn't that why the folks do ride the dark side on the back anyway?

You are correct though on the folks that swap not going back to motorcycle tires...interesting
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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #66 on: October 02, 2019, 03:28:57 PM »

Mark, maybe because most front tires last longer than the back.  I know I try to swap out the back somewhere around 15,000 miles (whether it needs it or not) while the front can go 25 to 30,000.  I do a LOT of interstate riding but my bikes get quite a bit in the twisties, too.  The wear/cost benefits for a car tire on the front wouldn't be worth it to me but the wear and cost for the rear would.  Isn't that why the folks do ride the dark side on the back anyway?

You are correct though on the folks that swap not going back to motorcycle tires...interesting

Interesting point about the mileage, I know I change out two rears to one front. I guess when a DarkSider does finally wear out a front motorcycle tire, they should go Dark up front too. And with the cost of quality motorcycle tires these days, it make would sense to put a car tire up front. Pay once, cry once, and expect 100,000 miles out of a Dark front tire.

Now that's a savings over a lifetime of riding. Why wouldn't a DarkSider do it?
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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #67 on: October 02, 2019, 06:01:33 PM »

There are bunch guys running double dark. The problem I see It is harder to find the
 correct size tire for the front. Some are using a rear on the front for better mileage.
I have been reading and following darkside for 10 years or more. I thought it
was a good time to try it. I have been going thru 2 tires a year at 300 plus each. 
The tire I put on cost me 150 mounted and should get 30 to 40000 miles. I am still searching for the DOWN Side.
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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #68 on: October 02, 2019, 06:42:33 PM »

There are bunch guys running double dark. The problem I see It is harder to find the
 correct size tire for the front. Some are using a rear on the front for better mileage.
I have been reading and following darkside for 10 years or more. I thought it
was a good time to try it. I have been going thru 2 tires a year at 300 plus each. 
The tire I put on cost me 150 mounted and should get 30 to 40000 miles. I am still searching for the DOWN Side.

Hopefully you will find a car tire to fit up front and be able to run double dark too.
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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #69 on: October 02, 2019, 07:34:37 PM »

There are bunch guys running double dark. The problem I see It is harder to find the
 correct size tire for the front. Some are using a rear on the front for better mileage.
I have been reading and following darkside for 10 years or more. I thought it
was a good time to try it. I have been going thru 2 tires a year at 300 plus each. 
The tire I put on cost me 150 mounted and should get 30 to 40000 miles. I am still searching for the DOWN Side.
Just do a fat tire up front with the Native Baggers 180 kit.

Sent from my boring Droid phone.

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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #70 on: October 02, 2019, 07:49:03 PM »

Mike

I have been looking at that.
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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #71 on: October 02, 2019, 10:42:23 PM »

Just do a fat tire up front with the Native Baggers 180 kit.

But doesn’t that circumvent the whole DarkSide? I mean if you run a fat 180 motorcycle tire up front instead of a car tire then you’re just using a fat motorcycle tire. It’s not really a Double Dark Side. He wouldn’t get all the benefit of running a car tire up front like all the other DD riders.

With all the SmartCars, sub compact cars, micro cars, there’s gotta be a small car tire that will fit the front wheel of a Harley.
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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #72 on: October 03, 2019, 07:09:48 AM »

OBB, YOU NEED TO GO FOR A RIDE!  :drink:
« Last Edit: October 03, 2019, 07:18:42 AM by TN »
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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #73 on: October 03, 2019, 01:38:34 PM »

OBB, YOU NEED TO GO FOR A RIDE!  :drink:
I did ride to work this morning.

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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #74 on: October 03, 2019, 08:06:22 PM »

I did ride to work this morning.

Sent from my boring Droid phone.

May I suggest take the scenic route.  :orange:
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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #75 on: October 03, 2019, 09:55:19 PM »

May I suggest take the scenic route.  :orange:
Was pretty damn foggy. Not much to look at and makes it harder to see Bambi on the scenic route.

Sent from my boring Droid phone.

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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #76 on: October 09, 2019, 09:40:43 PM »

This thread has really been interesting.  Excuse my ignorance, but when it  started I thought he was talking about riding a "blacked out" bike with no chrome.  I've never heard of running a car tire on a bike.  Very interesting concept and apparently successful for a lot of people.  But then, I'm also trying to figure out Instagram.
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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #77 on: October 10, 2019, 07:30:27 AM »

This thread has really been interesting.  Excuse my ignorance, but when it  started I thought he was talking about riding a "blacked out" bike with no chrome.  I've never heard of running a car tire on a bike.  Very interesting concept and apparently successful for a lot of people.  But then, I'm also trying to figure out Instagram.

I know the feeling, i have a smart phone that does 1,001 things of which I only use 5 features,....LOL.

Dark side is nothing new, it's been around a while. It's roots are in the "budget builds" with the fenderless chopper guys throwing a used car tire on the rear only because it fit the rim. From there it branched out to the long distance riders who got tired of wearing out motorcycle tires in 10K or less. So xcept for the "budget builds", wheel size and front fender clearance have prevented most of the current bikes from using car tires on the front, or going to what is called DoubleDark (DD).

However with the new crop of electric, hybrid, and micro cars I'm sure car tires small enough for the front is just around the corner. Then the HD folks can run DD and never have to change a tire.

It'll be interesting to see how this develops in time.
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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #78 on: October 10, 2019, 01:52:12 PM »

I remember the first time I saw a Boss Hoss, back in the early 90's, with it's ZZ3 350 cu. in. GM crate motor. This thing was massive and come to find out only had a single forward gear, brakes that couldn't hardly control the thing and a car tire on the back as that was the best they had available at the time. Now as these monsters have been refined (I know, kind of an oxymoron) they have multiple forward gears and even a reverse on their trikes as well as motorcycle tires for better cornering and handling. So for me, I always looked at the car tire thing as the best/only option until the tire companies caught up with a quality fitment.
But as long as people are out there enjoying themselves safely with wind in their faces and adrenaline in their veins who really gives a rats a$$ what tires THEY choose!

Ride on  :2vrolijk_21:
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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #79 on: October 23, 2019, 08:38:03 PM »

I have a 2006 road glide cvo. I am wondering if I can go dark side with it. Being a bagger I need the size tire that needs to be put on. The biker tire is a MU85-16
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Re: Dark Side CVO's?
« Reply #80 on: October 23, 2019, 08:40:10 PM »

I have a 2006 road glide cvo. I am wondering if I can go dark side with it. Being a bagger I need the size tire that needs to be put on. The biker tire is a MU85-16
Check your year on your post again. They didn't have a CVO RG in 2006.
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