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[Celtic Gypsy]

 

 I am new at asking questions so don't know if any one will see this. A HD dealership installed a 27548-10C Stage 3 upgrade to my 2014 CVO road king knowing I had a 6 year estended service plan (ESP). I had a failure 15,000 mi later and the ESP people say the kit voided my ESP because it is a racing part. Dealer disagrees and I am holding the bag. My Question is this...

What is the difference between the 27548-10A and B Kits (street legal) and C Kit now designated as for Race use only.

[grc]

 I am new at asking questions so don't know if any one will see this. A HD dealership installed a 27548-10C Stage 3 upgrade to my 2014 CVO road king knowing I had a 6 year estended service plan (ESP). I had a failure 15,000 mi later and the ESP people say the kit voided my ESP because it is a racing part. Dealer disagrees and I am holding the bag. My Question is this...

What is the difference between the 27548-10A and B Kits (street legal) and C Kit now designated as for Race use only.

The 27548-10 kits have always been "for race use only".  I keep copies of the SE Catalogs on my computer, the attachment was made by cutting and pasting the A kit description and the C kit description from different years.  The main difference is that the A kit came with the SEPST tuner and the C kit does not (Harley is no longer allowed to sell that tuner).  The pistons, cams, etc. are the same in both kits.  I think you have the kit Harley offered to convert a TC96 or 103 to a CVO110 (street legal) confused with the 27548-10 kits.

Jerry

[Celtic Gypsy]

  Thankyou...Finally an answer. Interesting how often this kit was used. I wonder if anyone knew on the CVO group if it voided the ESP from Harley?  Both note the installation of pressure release valves. How important is that for this application? Says Highly recommended.

[Celtic Gypsy]

Also: the HD dealer did install the Race stage 3 kit. that voided my Extended Service Plan (ESP). I only have a year left. My current dealer is going to reinstall that same kit but also the appropriate tappets, lifters, springs, Bearings, with Adjustable push rods so I can more easily service the lifters and associated parts every 15-20,000 miles. Installing the stock system would cost me $1000 more and I would also have to bring my exaust system up to current EPA specs. Another $3K. There is a Longer story with a daisy chain of HD dealership, HD corporate  and ESP communication negligence and clarity issues between them selves, encouraging dealership unwitting "upgrading" profits over logical upgrading management clarity to maintain an expensive ESP. If anyone purchases an ESP and wants to "beef up" their bike, the first question to the dealer and ESP should be, How will this effect my ESP and get the answer in writing.

[grc]

Your 2014 CVO already has compression releases standard. 

I feel your pain.  Harley pushed all those illegal modifications to make boatloads of money, and didn't care that they could potentially cause the ESP company to void your extended service contract.  They knew all those "for racing use only" modifications were mainly being used on street bikes, but the little disclaimers in the listings made them feel they were untouchable.  In 2016 the EPA finally caught up with them and busted their butts.  That's why they can no longer sell the race only tuner, and starting for the 2017 model the EPA made them agree to void the factory warranty on any 2017 or later bikes found to have illegal modifications.

Harley doesn't have anything to do with your ESP in terms of administering it, they only sell it and get a commission.  The independent company that administers the ESP is responsible for determining if your repair meets the terms of the contract.  That contract specifically states certain things that will void the coverage, and non-street legal engine mods are one of those things.

Jerry

[Celtic Gypsy]

Well... I have a 2014 CVO and now I can do what I want except purchase a harley ESP. You would think they would encourage compliance  and develop compliant upgrades that improve power & preserve or improve reliability, since it drives customers back to their dealerships when repairs are necessary.

[Celtic Gypsy]

Now that I am into the repair of my 2014 CVO Road King, My dealer is saying they need to replace the Oil pan because there is a screen in it that filters metal and debris that may have ended up in the pan. They can't clean the pan and assure me that all the metal shavings and debris from the motor failure will be cleaned out of the screen. I have a very veteran HD master technician (newely retired) says there is not screen in the pan, The Oil filter will capture 5 microns or larger and the Oil pan can be cleaned. No need for the purchase of a new oil pan. Who is correct?

[Cat Eye]

Sorry for you situation.

Unfortunately some dealers, as you have found out, gloss over how upgrades will effect ESP claims.

Anyone who is considering a motor upgrade, regardless of remaining factory or ESP warrant, should have a full understanding what the warranty is for the upgrade and who is standing behind it.

And regardless of what the Service Managers tells you. If it not in writing, you have no legal recourse.  It is important to have this blunt conversation.

Some Managers have told me that they would cover the upgrades under the ESP/factory warranty. Great! but what about other dealers, what happens if I break down while touring hundreds of miles away?  That usually when the discussion goes sideways.

I have purchased ESP in the past and have come to realize that for me...They are not a good investment. I don’t like the idea having to wait for it to break before you can have it repaired under the ESP.  Investing in preventive maintenance, which for me means, replacing lifter and re-torque compensator spring pack every 25k.

I know that this info is mute to you, but hopefully it will have some value to other.

Good Luck on your rebuild.

[Twolanerider]

Now that I am into the repair of my 2014 CVO Road King, My dealer is saying they need to replace the Oil pan because there is a screen in it that filters metal and debris that may have ended up in the pan. They can't clean the pan and assure me that all the metal shavings and debris from the motor failure will be cleaned out of the screen. I have a very veteran HD master technician (newely retired) says there is not screen in the pan, The Oil filter will capture 5 microns or larger and the Oil pan can be cleaned. No need for the purchase of a new oil pan. Who is correct?

Tech isn't entirely wrong.  Older model pans could be cleaned.  Later model have a non-removable baffle that makes it very difficult to know for sure you've cleaned thoroughly.  I would not want to trust a potential hazard left behind in the newer model pans.

[Celtic Gypsy]

thank you. Then I need to find out if the 2014 CVO has the newer one. thanks!! I'll let you know.

[Celtic Gypsy]

 In the 2014 FLHRSE the Oil pan does come with the cleaning baffle preventing total Oil Pan cleaning if metal or foreign debris were to make its way Into it from the motor or elsewhere. Harley Davidson now recomends/specifies replacement should that happen.

Thank you for your responses to my questions!!

[grc]

One point I feel a need to make here is that the purpose of that baffle has nothing to do with cleaning anything.  The purpose is to slow and direct the flow of the oil returned from the engine, allowing it to transfer more heat to the baffles and the oil pan itself.  It isn't a filter.  Unfortunately when they made it an integral and non-removable part of the oil pan, they made it impossible to do as thorough a cleaning of the pan as was possible when it was a separate part.  Funny thing though, when that same dealership does a repair for Harley or the ESP company, they don't get paid for a new oil pan.  I always love how they recommend the most expensive alternatives when the customer is footing the bill, but turn around and tell customers they don't need to replace certain expensive parts when they (Harley or ESP) have to pay the repair bill.

Anyhow, changing the oil pan in this case is a good idea.  If someone had the right equipment and would take the time to do a thorough job, I'm pretty sure the pan could be cleaned well enough.  I doubt a typical dealer meets either of those requirements.

Jerry

[Celtic Gypsy]

Thank you for the back story. Valuable information and I forwarded it to my retired Master Technician friend of mine.

[Celtic Gypsy]

Thanks Cat Eye for your coments and I am becoming more in your camp.

[Celtic Gypsy]

Thank you every one for your help and insights!!

[Celtic Gypsy]

This is a new this year Stage 5 kit. it is interesting that it has all the parts the  "for race use only" kit that was installed in my bike which voided the extended service  plan. Other than the Screaming eagle Bolt on cylinder heads which my CVO comes with, I believe all the other parts are the same as on or being installed on my bike now which "they" (the ESP and HD Customer Service) say voids my ESP. I dont get it.
I have the Screamin' Eagle Race tuner which came with the kit not the (Screamin’ Eagle Street Tuner Kit (priced separately)*. I understand that the race tuner can be used to dial in the bike for street use.

SCREAMIN’ EAGLE® BOLT-ON 110CI STAGE V
TIRE SHREDDER KIT  92500038
This comprehensive kit provides a complete package of matched components that allow you to build a high perfor- mance 110CI Twin Cam without voiding the factory warranty. The unique Screamin’ Eagle® 4.0" big bore cylinders are engi- neered to slip into the engine cases without case machining or modification, so the engine stays in the chassis during the build.
Kit includes the following Screamin’ Eagle components:
• Screamin’ Eagle 4.0" Bolt-On Cylinders
• Forged 10.2:1 High Compression Pistons and Rings • Screamin’ Eagle 58mm Throttle Body
• High Flow Fuel Injectors
• Screamin’ Eagle CNC-Ported Cylinder Heads
• SE-259 Cams
• Perfect-Fit Pushrods
• Screamin’ Eagle High-Capacity Roller Tappets
• Top End and Cam Cover Gaskets
• Heavy Duty Clutch Spring
All EFI-equipped models require dealer-installed ECM calibra- tion download or use of the tunable Screamin’ Eagle Street Tuner Kit (priced separately)*.
92500038
Fits 50-state ’14-later Touring models, Does not fit Twin- CooledTM models. Does not fit Trike models, CVOTM 110 models or models with engine cases that have been machined to accept large-bore cylinders. Requires separate purchase of accessory 58mm air cleaner and Cam Drive Retention Kit P/N 25566-06. Cam Spacer Kit P/N 25928-06 is recommended.
*Recalibration is required for proper installation, See Dealer for details. Labor cost not included.

SCREAMIN’ EAGLE BOLT-ON 110CI STAGE V TIRE SHREDDER KIT

[skratch]

a major part of your problem is the race tuner.  while it can be used to dial in the bike for street use, it can also be used to take your bike out of epa compliance.  and that is the big issue hd/epa has.

[Celtic Gypsy]

Ok. so if i purchase a screamin eagle street legal one with limitations then its ok. or since i own a race one I can't ever qualify since I own one and must turn it in to qualify??? bogus

[Celtic Gypsy]

Sorry my response I sounded uppity. but Harley and ESP just make up the rules as they go. It would be nice if they could work with loyal customers through the dealerships to make things right vs. "Just say No."

[King Glide]

There you go.... now you understand the frustration of the masses and why we listen to the occasional rant.