Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Rhino]

I can assure you that even now as wee speak, Zippers has some mighty exciting things regarding tuning and future releases around the corner, and so is some futuristic thinking to stay ahead... nuff said for now tho.

Rhino

I enjoy tinkering and turning wrenches, so a tool like the TMAT is right down my alley.  I have used Power Commanders with good results in the past also - nothing bad at all to say about that product either.  I like the technology of the TMAT, even though I am sure it is in its infancy development wise.  I suspect in the future, all EFI systems will work in conjunction with some type of real time feedback - and someday the current TMAT technology will look like a relic.
Scott

[Unbalanced]

Ronnie go empty your truck, so we can ride tonight the rain is gone and the mulch is calling your name

[Talon]

I have a Zipper's 120" and they developed the map back in February for this specific build.  I have still had to tweak it for the increased high ambient temps. When things cool down to normal (below 80F), I'll go back to my more aggressive map.

hdfr120, glad you system is working for you, the only problem I have is that the hope for TMAT was that once you had a good base map you wouldn't have to make manual adjustments. Question, do you think you performance map is more than 20% different than what you would run in the summer? If no then I would expect that TMAT should have this covered, by the advertised claims. 

[RDJ ROADKING]

Hey Rhino I'm back i did the laptop in the bag thing last week but i left it on to long and the file was to big to send using yahoo it's my son's work computer and i can use it on the weekend only. So let me tell u how it's doing i rode for around 700 mile with the 275 map i whet from -1 to -3 on the timing added more fuel in the area of pinging still would ping @ 3000 rpms @ 70 mph tried putting in the autolite 4162 plugs they are 2 steps colder stilled pinged that was of till SATURDAY...So today i put in the #315 map which is for a 103" and se 253 cam's.. Cleared my learned fuel adjustments and did the off on 3 times and read the map to make sure it took did'nt redo the iac stuff or let it run to 289 degrees. I went out on the interstate and rode 185 miles the gas light came on at 180 miles when i got gas it was 2.99 a gallon it took 15.00 i filled it to the top so gas mileage was good.This is the best thing it did not ping i even took it down to 50mph to 75 in 5th gear leaned over to hear if it pinged and it didn't it was 83 degrees and cloudy today that might have something to do with it i also left the 4162 plugs in.. Is it alright to use this map with my build the 315 map i also set the maximum cpl off sets to 35 left the session @ 5% If u doint remember what i had here it is 2005 roadking 95" se kit se airfilter, 37g cam's, dd fatcats, 9:8-1 cc 0.30 head gasket also it ran great and get this i doin't have the poping when in second and letting off the gas anymore. Thank u for all the help u have been giving me ........ oh another thing when i look at the #315 map it looks the same as the # 275 map is this right ..............and i also set the rev limit to 6208 and the speedo cal to 40960 i did notice when i start it up my tach will go all the way up then back down to 1000 rpms.........

[Rhino]

I'll take a look at it in the morning for the map compare, but, if its running great and no ping, sounds like you nailed it.  The maps are close, but the 37g may have needed a diffrent map as you have tried. The fuel across the board is good aon all the maps, so not to worry.  The rideabilty and crisp throttle, and starts, both hot and cold, if they work well, and you have good mileage, and it seat of the pants is strong, the autotune should take care of the details reaching nirvana shortly.  You could also set it back to 20 and 5, now that it found its way around.  The tach rise, I get sometimes, but is a reset mode of sorts, not an issue. My truck does the same too.  So, if you can go back to the recommended plug and no ping, all the better. I dont like non harley plugs.

Rhino

[RDJ ROADKING]

I'll take a look at it in the morning for the map compare, but, if its running great and no ping, sounds like you nailed it.  The maps are close, but the 37g may have needed a diffrent map as you have tried. The fuel across the board is good aon all the maps, so not to worry.  The rideabilty and crisp throttle, and starts, both hot and cold, if they work well, and you have good mileage, and it seat of the pants is strong, the autotune should take care of the details reaching nirvana shortly.  You could also set it back to 20 and 5, now that it found its way around.  The tach rise, I get sometimes, but is a reset mode of sorts, not an issue. My truck does the same too.  So, if you can go back to the recommended plug and no ping, all the better. I dont like non harley plugs.

Rhino

   Thanks for checking it out for me is there a way that i can see it  i caint figure out how to compare maps.......I put the stock plugs back in today and went out on the insterstate hit 70 and it pinged but not as loud as before so i put the 4162 back in i would rather not hear any ping thanks again when i looked at the run i did last week i couldnt tell anything just a line moving thanks again....

[jfh]

hdfr120, glad you system is working for you, the only problem I have is that the hope for TMAT was that once you had a good base map you wouldn't have to make manual adjustments. Question, do you think you performance map is more than 20% different than what you would run in the summer? If no then I would expect that TMAT should have this covered, by the advertised claims. 

Talon,
While the AT range is 20%, it is setup for +10% /-10% from the base map.  In my case that was insufficient for the AT to compensate from the Feb temps, when it was tuned, to the July temps and humidity of Northern Virginia without a manual adjustment. Had the initial map been developed in July, I think I would have been fine.
Regards,
John

[grc]

Talon,
While the AT range is 20%, it is setup for +10% /-10% from the base map.  In my case that was insufficient for the AT to compensate from the Feb temps, when it was tuned, to the July temps and humidity of Northern Virginia without a manual adjustment. Had the initial map been developed in July, I think I would have been fine.
Regards,
John

One of the things I'm not quite understanding about this is the failure of the TMAT to automatically compensate for temp changes.  I distinctly remember questioning JK at Zipper's about the TM using the stock sensors, and he assured me it used them.  You have a cylinder head temp sensor and an intake air temp sensor providing data to the ECM, but it sounds like Zipper's doesn't have the ECM programmed properly to use the data.  Needing different base maps for different times of the year or different areas of the country sounds like a very poor system to me.  Let's see, if I leave from Maine in February, after chipping the ice off the bike, and then ride to Daytona, this means I need to carry my laptop and a copy of my hot weather map with me.  Of course, on the return trip I need to stop somewhere and reload my cold weather map.  BS!

Jerry

[Talon]

Well for example, a change of AFR from 13.5 to 13.7 is just under 10%, so if it takes a change larger than that and your set at 20% then you might have a problem, I didn't think it was 10% either way, but could be wrong. Also I thought you could change the Maximum CLP offset up to 50%, a note in their manual has the statement below. Page 58 of the downloadable manual.

"Unless you application is a considerable mismatch to the installed base map, the default settings of 5% per session and 20% maximum are sufficient for most AFR corrections."

[RDJ ROADKING]

Looks like this thread is dying off im still running good...........

[Talon]

yea, I think most people have made their minds up one way or the other.  I was wondering if anyone had tried changing the CLP offset?  If so did it help any??

[jfh]

One of the things I'm not quite understanding about this is the failure of the TMAT to automatically compensate for temp changes.  I distinctly remember questioning JK at Zipper's about the TM using the stock sensors, and he assured me it used them.  You have a cylinder head temp sensor and an intake air temp sensor providing data to the ECM, but it sounds like Zipper's doesn't have the ECM programmed properly to use the data.  Needing different base maps for different times of the year or different areas of the country sounds like a very poor system to me.  Let's see, if I leave from Maine in February, after chipping the ice off the bike, and then ride to Daytona, this means I need to carry my laptop and a copy of my hot weather map with me.  Of course, on the return trip I need to stop somewhere and reload my cold weather map.  BS!

Jerry

Jerry,
TMAT uses both the temp sensors to make adjustments.  However, many of the features including the inlet air temp vs timing adjustment are only available on the advanced version of the software which is only provided to tuners.  Granted, despite claims to the contrary, it has not yet proven to be the end all plug and play device for the consumer.  Then again, no one else has been able to provide that capability to the end user yet either.  Nonetheless, it is a very powerful tuning device for those who are granted access to its full features.  Your shop could probably qualify for the advanced version which would provide you all the facts about its capabilities and mitigate your continued speculation and subsequent condemnation of the product.

For my needs, the TMAT comes closest to what I am looking for.

[RDJ ROADKING]

They just released a software download to be able to see the timing stuff but not a firmware download.............

[grc]

Jerry,
TMAT uses both the temp sensors to make adjustments.  However, many of the features including the inlet air temp vs timing adjustment are only available on the advanced version of the software which is only provided to tuners.  Granted, despite claims to the contrary, it has not yet proven to be the end all plug and play device for the consumer.  Then again, no one else has been able to provide that capability to the end user yet either.  Nonetheless, it is a very powerful tuning device for those who are granted access to its full features.  Your shop could probably qualify for the advanced version which would provide you all the facts about its capabilities and mitigate your continued speculation and subsequent condemnation of the product.

For my needs, the TMAT comes closest to what I am looking for.

hdfr120,

If the TM-AT makes you happy, then I am happy for you.  As for me, I'll stick with the PCIII.  

Unlike with the Zipper's product, many qualified tuners can be found for a PC within easy driving distance.  If I'm going to need a full dyno tune with either product, despite Zipper's claims and advertising to the contrary, then I'll just save the extra $800 and stick with the PCIII (or a SERT) plus dyno tune.

In a nutshell, my heartburn with the TM and TM-AT has everything to do with false claims (some made in one-on-one conversations and others made in advertising), lack of local support, and slow or no response when a problem arises.  I don't know about the rest of the folks here, but I tend to avoid repeat business with companies that have those issues.  

Jerry

[jfh]

hdfr120,

If the TM-AT makes you happy, then I am happy for you.  As for me, I'll stick with the PCIII.  

Unlike with the Zipper's product, many qualified tuners can be found for a PC within easy driving distance.  If I'm going to need a full dyno tune with either product, despite Zipper's claims and advertising to the contrary, then I'll just save the extra $800 and stick with the PCIII (or a SERT) plus dyno tune.

In a nutshell, my heartburn with the TM and TM-AT has everything to do with false claims (some made in one-on-one conversations and others made in advertising), lack of local support, and slow or no response when a problem arises.  I don't know about the rest of the folks here, but I tend to avoid repeat business with companies that have those issues.  

Jerry

Jerry,

The TMAX retails for $485.00, TMAX with AT retails for $865.95.  Not sure where you are saving $800.00 over a PCIII or SERT.

Your previous post makes it clear that you would not choose the TMAX, but I remain curious as to whether you have any first hand experience with the product?

Regards,
John