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[SBB]

While in Louisiana (770 miles from home) and down in the Bayou (25 miles from civilization) my 09 SEUC went into "Limp mode".
Having never experienced that before I wasn't sure what to do. We were about 5 miles from our destination so I "limped" there.
The motor would only run at 2K rpm with no throttle control. It was last Friday evening so I called my service manager's (in Charlotte) cell phone.
When he answered I told him what the issue was and he said he would call me back in a few minutes. He called back and told me the sequence to reset so the bike would come out of limp mode. It worked and we left the swamp. A few miles down the road it went back into "limp mode" again. I stopped and reset the bike again. This time it ran OK to get us back to the motel. The next day I took it to Hammond Harley Davidson so they could fix it. Per the "code" displayed they said they needed to change some connection pins at the ECM. They told me that they had seen this before and asked if I had been riding on rough roads. I responded with "this is Louisiana, all the roads are rough". They changed the pins, test rode it and said it was good to go. RIGHT! I rode it the 770 miles home and took the bike to my dealer so they could REcheck it.
I'm at 28500 miles and they are telling me that Harley is aware that during periods of much vibration or mileage over 8000 this can occur. They then showed me a copy of  2/4 TT418 of which I have scanned and attached. Please read what it says. I am just amazed that now every 8K or more miles I need to have my connection pins checked for corrosion or looseness. Even with 28K on the bike the roads in La were the bumpiest I had ever been on. Hell, back in the Bayou I was just glad they were paved even though they were rough. So add another concern I need to consider when travelling with my 09 110 that I never considered.

TBW/FBW or whatever it's called, isn't technology great!


SBB


click on the attchment to enlarge

[GregKhougaz]

Chip, as always you're on top of things.  Thanks for the good info and sorry for your hassles!

[Screamin]

Thanks for the good poop Chip. Good info and glad you got it worked out w/o too much hassle.

What a bunch of chit.

[grc]

I know this is a totally dumb question, but what is the MoCo's plan to eliminate that problem (other than having the owner's remove pins from connectors and clean them, that is)?  Sounds like just more of the same ol' same ol', with the customer bearing the burden of poor design/poor manufacturing/poor customer service.  I'd hate to be riding across the desert out west and go into "limp home" mode 200 miles from anywhere.  And why is this not considered a safety defect requiring a recall? 

Absolutely amazing, once again.


Jerry

[mjb765]

I fI may ask...what is the procedure to reset from Limp mode??

[SBB]

I know this is a totally dumb question, but what is the MoCo's plan to eliminate that problem (other than having the owner's remove pins from connectors and clean them, that is)?  Sounds like just more of the same ol' same ol', with the customer bearing the burden of poor design/poor manufacturing/poor customer service.  I'd hate to be riding across the desert out west and go into "limp home" mode 200 miles from anywhere.  And why is this not considered a safety defect requiring a recall? 

Absolutely amazing, once again.


Jerry

Jerry

I been waiting for your post.
Unfortunately there seems to be no plan.
And yesterday when riding the 01 SERG on the Blue Ridge Parkway I was very thankful there was no TBW on that bike.

SBB

[Twolanerider]

Is this dissimilar metals in the pins/sockets/wires or has HD created a new area of foreign intrusion that hadn't been problematic before?

[SBB]

I fI may ask...what is the procedure to reset from Limp mode??

What I was told to do was,

With the "OFF Run" handlebar switch in the "RUN" position, you then turn the ignition switch (keyed switch) on and off 4 times and the ECM resets.
I did that and it worked.
Why it works, I don't have a clue and out in the Bayou I was just glad it did.

SBB

[mjb765]

What I was told to do was,

With the "OFF Run" handlebar switch in the "RUN" position, you then turn the ignition switch (keyed switch) on and off 4 times and the ECM resets.
I did that and it worked.
Why it works, I don't have a clue and out in the Bayou I was just glad it did.

SBB

Thanks

[skreminegul07]

While in Louisiana (770 miles from home) and down in the Bayou (25 miles from civilization) my 09 SEUC went into "Limp mode".
Having never experienced that before I wasn't sure what to do. We were about 5 miles from our destination so I "limped" there.
The motor would only run at 2K rpm with no throttle control. It was last Friday evening so I called my service manager's (in Charlotte) cell phone.
When he answered I told him what the issue was and he said he would call me back in a few minutes. He called back and told me the sequence to reset so the bike would come out of limp mode. It worked and we left the swamp. A few miles down the road it went back into "limp mode" again. I stopped and reset the bike again. This time it ran OK to get us back to the motel. The next day I took it to Hammond Harley Davidson so they could fix it. Per the "code" displayed they said they needed to change some connection pins at the ECM. They told me that they had seen this before and asked if I had been riding on rough roads. I responded with "this is Louisiana, all the roads are rough". They changed the pins, test rode it and said it was good to go. RIGHT! I rode it the 770 miles home and took the bike to my dealer so they could REcheck it.
I'm at 28500 miles and they are telling me that Harley is aware that during periods of much vibration or mileage over 8000 this can occur. They then showed me a copy of  2/4 TT418 of which I have scanned and attached. Please read what it says. I am just amazed that now every 8K or more miles I need to have my connection pins checked for corrosion or looseness. Even with 28K on the bike the roads in La were the bumpiest I had ever been on. Hell, back in the Bayou I was just glad they were paved even though they were rough. So add another concern I need to consider when travelling with my 09 110 that I never considered.

TBW/FBW or whatever it's called, isn't technology great!


SBB


click on the attchment to enlarge

I'd still rather a carburetor. Period.  Glad it worked out.  What about Dielectric grease on the pins if its corrosion?

[SBB]

I'd still rather a carburetor. Period.  Glad it worked out.  What about Dielectric grease on the pins if its corrosion?

Hammond Harley said they packed the connections full when they replaced the pins.
And same for my dealer here when they checked everything.

SBB

[HOGMIKE]

While in Louisiana (770 miles from home) and down in the Bayou (25 miles from civilization) my 09 SEUC went into "Limp mode".
Having never experienced that before I wasn't sure what to do. We were about 5 miles from our destination so I "limped" there.
The motor would only run at 2K rpm with no throttle control. It was last Friday evening so I called my service manager's (in Charlotte) cell phone.
When he answered I told him what the issue was and he said he would call me back in a few minutes. He called back and told me the sequence to reset so the bike would come out of limp mode. It worked and we left the swamp. A few miles down the road it went back into "limp mode" again. I stopped and reset the bike again. This time it ran OK to get us back to the motel. The next day I took it to Hammond Harley Davidson so they could fix it. Per the "code" displayed they said they needed to change some connection pins at the ECM. They told me that they had seen this before and asked if I had been riding on rough roads. I responded with "this is Louisiana, all the roads are rough". They changed the pins, test rode it and said it was good to go. RIGHT! I rode it the 770 miles home and took the bike to my dealer so they could REcheck it.
I'm at 28500 miles and they are telling me that Harley is aware that during periods of much vibration or mileage over 8000 this can occur. They then showed me a copy of  2/4 TT418 of which I have scanned and attached. Please read what it says. I am just amazed that now every 8K or more miles I need to have my connection pins checked for corrosion or looseness. Even with 28K on the bike the roads in La were the bumpiest I had ever been on. Hell, back in the Bayou I was just glad they were paved even though they were rough. So add another concern I need to consider when travelling with my 09 110 that I never considered.

TBW/FBW or whatever it's called, isn't technology great!


SBB


click on the attchment to enlarge

Bent a pushrod in my Pan years ago......150mi from home.
Took both pushrods out of the rear cylinder, rode home on the front cylinder.
Try THAT with the new bikes!!
 

[smkymtnboy]

  chip stay out of that dang swamp. that places rusts everything. keep on ridge running

[Unbalanced]

http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=43982.msg667330#msg667330

Here is a link to the pdf, on it.

[grc]

Is this dissimilar metals in the pins/sockets/wires or has HD created a new area of foreign intrusion that hadn't been problematic before?

Don, somehow H-D just keeps finding ways to take simple technology that isn't problematic anywhere else and screw it up.  And what's even worse is they seem to keep getting away with it without the major repercussions that would be felt by other companies if their products crapped out if you drove them over bumpy roads, for instance.  What kind of total BS is that?  I wonder if Toyota or Ford could just tell their customers that they might have to get their electrical connectors in their cars disassembled, tweaked, cleaned, and reassembled at 8,000 miles, or that they should avoid rough roads?  And btw, I don't suppose all that disassembling, cleaning, and reassembling is going to loosen the fit of those pins and sockets at all.  No need to worry, I'm sure H-D will make certain that only the most highly trained technicians are allowed to screw with this stuff.  Or maybe the wash boy, if no highly trained tech is available.


Jerry

[FNGw/08SERK]

Don, somehow H-D just keeps finding ways to take simple technology that isn't problematic anywhere else and screw it up.  And what's even worse is they seem to keep getting away with it without the major repercussions that would be felt by other companies if their products crapped out if you drove them over bumpy roads, for instance.  What kind of total BS is that?  I wonder if Toyota or Ford could just tell their customers that they might have to get their electrical connectors in their cars disassembled, tweaked, cleaned, and reassembled at 8,000 miles, or that they should avoid rough roads?  And btw, I don't suppose all that disassembling, cleaning, and reassembling is going to loosen the fit of those pins and sockets at all.  No need to worry, I'm sure H-D will make certain that only the most highly trained technicians are allowed to screw with this stuff.  Or maybe the wash boy, if no highly trained tech is available.


Jerry

All valid points Jerry but as long as we're drinkin' the koolaid I don't have to tell you that it'll never change. Brightside is new bikes price points continue to skyrocket for decades old technology but the demo is aging .... and I'm sorry to say quickly. Change is coming ... I just wish it was directed positively toward the loyalists. JMO of coarse 

[JerseyT]

Just to clarify ... should the dielectric grease be packed in both the ECM and Throttle wiring connectors?

[Black Diamond]

Chip

I feel your pain. My latest electronic gremlin had to do with this damn electronic throttle control system, corrosion in the connections on the throttle body, Harley's knowledge that the problem exist and no fix on the horizon. Seems like "pack it with dielectric grease" is the new message. Kinda like "that's normal"!

1st time my scooter went into limp mode, I'm trying to figure out how I'm going to described where I am at so someone can come get me. Not a good feeling when your off riding by yourself in the sticks.

I never saw this tech bulletin or I would have shared it back when I posted my 08 seems to be ok, for now. Good post Chip, keeping everyone informed! Because mother Harley isn't going to!

Jerry

I been waiting for your post.
Unfortunately there seems to be no plan.
And yesterday when riding the 01 SERG on the Blue Ridge Parkway I was very thankful there was no TBW on that bike.

SBB

The exact reason I got the 02 Candy Brandy. Next time the TBW causes me a problem may be the last time I deal with it. Nice to have options.

[Black Diamond]

BTW  The corrosion on my scooter's throttle connector was so minuscule we almost missed it. Upon close examination with a good flashlight you could just see "something" on a pin. This would not be hard to miss.

JW

[Twolanerider]

I know this is a totally dumb question, but what is the MoCo's plan to eliminate that problem (other than having the owner's remove pins from connectors and clean them, that is)?  Sounds like just more of the same ol' same ol', with the customer bearing the burden of poor design/poor manufacturing/poor customer service.  I'd hate to be riding across the desert out west and go into "limp home" mode 200 miles from anywhere.  And why is this not considered a safety defect requiring a recall? 

Absolutely amazing, once again.


Jerry

Jerry

I been waiting for your post.
Unfortunately there seems to be no plan.
And yesterday when riding the 01 SERG on the Blue Ridge Parkway I was very thankful there was no TBW on that bike.

SBB

I know we've hashed this topic before from different angles.  But these types of problems and HD's sophomoric and insipid responses to them (at the local and corporate level) are what makes me have zero interest in any new bike.  Mother Harley has for years had difficulties with any new major component release.  Know they're even seemingly regularly cutting corners on the R&D and institutional memory necessary to keep simple component exercises failsafed to levels of expected automotive reliability.

Those trans bearings and their asinine replacement specs in the first year of release for the Dynas, cam bearings in the initial Twin Cams, all the problems with the initial 110s and on and on and on.  None of that even addresses the subcomponent issues with their inability to manage subcontractors for CVO paint or things like cyclical bad chrome.

It is all that that makes me picky about the years of bikes I choose to really appreciate, what I'm willing to do with them and why I'll prefer them over anything more contemporary.  When "contemporary reliability" is a step back it is to be avoided.  TBW issues are too common (in HD's world), they now apparently can't keep a harness clean more than a year at a time and.... well; this is a list that could run on ad nauseum.

I've got throttle and idle cables.  I've got brakes that will lock up when you stomp on them, but are at least predictable.  I've got... well; old bikes.  But I'm not crying Harleyanna about things that will get better if I'm just a bit more patient with Mother Harley.  My bikes are what they are.  Complicated enough (though not at all by the modern automotive standards of their day), but notsomuch that a guy with a few tools can't keep them going.  And I don't have to deal with this petty nonsense over and over and over again.

[Black Diamond]

Well said!

JW

[skreminegul07]

Chip

I feel your pain. My latest electronic gremlin had to do with this damn electronic throttle control system, corrosion in the connections on the throttle body, Harley's knowledge that the problem exist and no fix on the horizon. Seems like "pack it with dielectric grease" is the new message. Kinda like "that's normal"!

1st time my scooter went into limp mode, I'm trying to figure out how I'm going to described where I am at so someone can come get me. Not a good feeling when your off riding by yourself in the sticks.

I never saw this tech bulletin or I would have shared it back when I posted my 08 seems to be ok, for now. Good post Chip, keeping everyone informed! Because mother Harley isn't going to!
 

The exact reason I got the 02 Candy Brandy. Next time the TBW causes me a problem may be the last time I deal with it. Nice to have options.

Dielectric Grease, the new Preparation "H"

[Black Diamond]

LOL 

[skreminegul07]

That's why really good products use gold connections for electronics.  All the automotive air bag electronics have gold contacts (at least they were from first introduction to about 10 years ago) .  I can imagine how fast that little bit of corrosion will occur near salt water.  That corrosion must be occurring on all the dozens of other pins too,  What other gremlins and symptoms are out there?  But until then.....

[grc]

That's why really good products use gold connections for electronics.  All the automotive air bag electronics have gold contacts (at least they were from first introduction to about 10 years ago) .  I can imagine how fast that little bit of corrosion will occur near salt water.  That corrosion must be occurring on all the dozens of other pins too,  What other gremlins and symptoms are out there?  But until then.....

Exactly Phil.  Similar issues were found with electrical connections and sensitive electronics in auto's decades ago, and measures were taken then to improve the materials and to seal the connections, and also pack the connections with dielectric compound as well.  Pull apart the connectors on your car or truck for the critical electronics in the engine management system, the ABS, the airbags, etc. and you will find these things. 

One of the things I don't understand is how H-D can constantly reinvent defects that were identified and fixed elsewhere 10 or 20 years earlier.  They don't actually invent any of this stuff, they sub most of it out to companies like Delphi for pete's sake.  Since Delphi is highly aware of the importance of any increased resistance in this type of circuit, I have to believe there are some other factors such as $$ that cause these problems to resurface.  Things like better quality pin and socket materials, connector seals, and dielectric compound cost more.  And even though they charge more for some of their motorcycles than car companies do for a modern 4 or 5 passenger car or SUV, H-D is obviously so inefficient that they have to scrimp on the important parts to maintain the profit margins.

I'd still like to know how this issue doesn't even deserve a real service bulletin, much less a recall.  Hiding this in a "Tech Tip" is ridiculous.  Especially after all the hoopla over Toyota's throttle control issues, someone at H-D needs to remove their head from their butt and finally become proactive. 


Jerry

[SIX38]

Should we all be proactive about this and take the connectors apart now and do the swab / alcohol / dielectric grease treatment before we go limp?? What's everyone's opinion?

Tom P.

[miker]

Great info....time to torment the local idjits.  This 09 I have had the same s hitty fuse box my 07 had...I found on the 07 solder joints on the pin backs that looked to have missed the flux stage of prep...this 09 had a burned up a acc fuse without any load on it after being switched on..the short was the fuse box..oh and it blew the P&A fuse...Oy...friggin idjits..

[grc]

Should we all be proactive about this and take the connectors apart now and do the swab / alcohol / dielectric grease treatment before we go limp?? What's everyone's opinion?

Tom P.

With one big caveat, I would say yes.  If I personally owned a throttle-by-wire Harley I would disassemble, inspect, clean, replace suspect looking pins, and reassemble with dielectric compound.  I would also check the backside of the connectors (where the wires enter) to make certain they are totally sealed, and if they aren't I would seal them.

The caveat is, only someone who is familiar with this stuff should mess with it.  These electronic circuits are very touchy, and even tiny voltage drops will cause all sorts of headaches.


Jerry

[tazmun]

With one big caveat, I would say yes.  If I personally owned a throttle-by-wire Harley I would disassemble, inspect, clean, replace suspect looking pins, and reassemble with dielectric compound.  I would also check the backside of the connectors (where the wires enter) to make certain they are totally sealed, and if they aren't I would seal them.

The caveat is, only someone who is familiar with this stuff should mess with it.  These electronic circuits are very touchy, and even tiny voltage drops will cause all sorts of headaches.


Jerry

Jerry,
   Just wondering.......would you do the same with a $35k/$40k Ford or Chevy pickup, or jam it up the dealers
you know what?

[Twolanerider]

Jerry,
   Just wondering.......would you do the same with a $35k/$40k Ford or Chevy pickup, or jam it up the dealers
you know what?

I'll not speak for Jerry but can say what I'd do. Were it an issue I knew I could deal with and was seriously doubtful the servicing dealer could effectively do I'd do my own. Sometimes it's not about right or wrong it's about confidence in getting in.

[skreminegul07]

Jerry,
   Just wondering.......would you do the same with a $35k/$40k Ford or Chevy pickup, or jam it up the dealers
you know what?

I have mixed feelings about your question. 
With a car, I would jam it down the dealer's throat as you described. 

When it comes to a motorcycle, this crap can kill you.  I'd rather do it myself.  The dealer's reply is "that's normal, they all do it"., even if it is a defect.

[tazmun]

I have mixed feelings about your question. 
With a car, I would jam it down the dealer's throat as you described. 

When it comes to a motorcycle, this crap can kill you.  I'd rather do it myself.  The dealer's reply is "that's normal, they all do it"., even if it is a defect.

I just have a hard time with this, and other issues with Harley. It seems in my eyes
that people will LIVE with problems with HD, and their STUPITY. When it comes to
other companies (car, motorcycles) they would, like me "stick it up there *ss.
Harley KNOWS they can get away with it BECAUSE owners LIVE with it!!!.
I BELIEVE if our atitudes change, so will the quality of the motorcycles.
I  know the YOUNGER generation will NEVER live with it, and if
HD wants to win them over, they have to change RFN!! Just my 2 cents.

[grc]

I just have a hard time with this, and other issues with Harley. It seems in my eyes
that people will LIVE with problems with HD, and their STUPITY. When it comes to
other companies (car, motorcycles) they would, like me "stick it up there *ss.
Harley KNOWS they can get away with it BECAUSE owners LIVE with it!!!. I BELIEVE if our atitudes change, so will the quality of the motorcycles.
I  know the YOUNGER generation will NEVER live with it, and if
HD wants to win them over, they have to change RFN!! Just my 2 cents.

I think you're preaching to the choir, tazmun, I've been saying the same thing for many years about H-D.  So far I don't see any evidence of change, since the dealerships still tend to be clueless for the most part and MoCo management is too busy counting their bonus money to worry about customer satisfaction.  Just as was the case in the auto industry, it's going to take something really earthshaking to make them change.  So far, I don't think the current downturn in their business is anywhere near enough to do the trick.

As for your earlier question, let me answer that with a question of my own.  If you knew that the so-called "techs" at your dealership were barely qualified to change oil, would you really want them messing with the wiring for your electronic throttle control?  Yes, we should take this stuff back to the dealer and make them fix it.  But after you go through that routine a few times and get your bike back in worse condition than before, or with several new scratches, what are you going to do?  And if your answer is to keep going back to "make them fix it", or to fix the damage they caused, I hope you have the patience of Job and a really tenacious attorney.  Oh, and btw, if your bike isn't showing any diagnostic codes, they aren't going to go in and do this stuff to the connectors anyway.  H-D doesn't pay them unless there is an obvious defect present.  Just checking stuff on the off chance that it may go bad isn't something they do.

Yes, take it back to the dealer if you want, or if you don't personally have the capability to perform the work yourself.  However, for those who have the capability, I've found it to be much less stressful to just fix the crap myself.  The MoCo isn't getting a free ride in my case, however.  They've received tons of negative advertising from me, and I've ceased spending any significant amount of cash with them or their dealers.  I've also publicly stated that I will never consider the purchase of another Harley unless I see a huge change in the quality of the bikes and in customer service.  That is the only way things will change, when enough folks quit handing them the money.


Jerry

[tazmun]

Jerry,
 That's what I want people to do. I've had a few Harley's, BUT
I will, like you NEVER buy another until they change. I have a
hard time with all the people here on the site complaining,
then they get a hard on when a new color, or an updated
model comes out. Seems all is "forgiven" until they have
problems, then it starts over, and "oh wait new color"...
 I just guess we're in the minority, who REALLY wants change!

[HOGMIKE]

I have a little mental list of pros and cons before I purchase an item.
It helps to sooth the savage soul when I am expecting the pros to outweigh the cons, and I find the reverse to be true after my purchase!
All I can say is: "I Warned myself, but, I didn't listen"!
'Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on ME"!
(Descartes)

 

[Black Diamond]

I just have a hard time with this, and other issues with Harley. It seems in my eyes
that people will LIVE with problems with HD, and their STUPITY. When it comes to
other companies (car, motorcycles) they would, like me "stick it up there *ss.
Harley KNOWS they can get away with it BECAUSE owners LIVE with it!!!.
I BELIEVE if our atitudes change, so will the quality of the motorcycles.
I  know the YOUNGER generation will NEVER live with it, and if
HD wants to win them over, they have to change RFN!! Just my 2 cents.

Speaking only for my own issues, I have taken the scooter back to the dealership, repeatedly. The SM and tech have been going crazy with some of my issues. They call Milwaukee to ask if these problems are surfacing around the country. MoCo plays dumb. After repeated calls to mother Harley, they will finally have someone in Milwaukee tell them to check something as it is a known problem area. eg. connectors corroding, tombstone tail light, cylinder sleeve movement.

In my case I feel my shop guys are trying but are stuck with Harley rules. Jerry's right, no codes / no problem.

That's why I bought a used scooter. I'm buying most of the parts I'm modifying her with from private parties, aftermarket instead of giving the MoCo a dime. I have written them a letter outlining all the problems on my 08. I know you will be surprised but I got no response. I do not see a new Harley in my future. Things will have to change significantly. FWIW

JW

[SBB]

Speaking only for my own issues, I have taken the scooter back to the dealership, repeatedly. The SM and tech have been going crazy with some of my issues. They call Milwaukee to ask if these problems are surfacing around the country. MoCo plays dumb. After repeated calls to mother Harley, they will finally have someone in Milwaukee tell them to check something as it is a known problem area. eg. connectors corroding, tombstone tail light, cylinder sleeve movement.

In my case I feel my shop guys are trying but are stuck with Harley rules. Jerry's right, no codes / no problem.

That's why I bought a used scooter. I'm buying most of the parts I'm modifying her with from private parties, aftermarket instead of giving the MoCo a dime. I have written them a letter outlining all the problems on my 08. I know you will be surprised but I got no response. I do not see a new Harley in my future. Things will have to change significantly. FWIW

JW

My thoughts exactly Jeff.
FWIW I had a plan to buy a 2013 110th Anniversary Screamin Eagle in silver black as my next bike, with the key word being "had".
I have an excellent dealer and will continue to support Harley Davidson of Charlotte every chance I get, but why support the Motor Company when they don't support me?
There are plenty of fine Screamin Eagle's I'd love to have and buying used doesn't bother me at all.

SBB


Although a larger garage will be needed! 

[sadunbar]

My thoughts exactly Jeff.
FWIW I had a plan to buy a 2013 110th Anniversary Screamin Eagle in silver black as my next bike, with the key word being "had".
I have an excellent dealer and will continue to support Harley Davidson of Charlotte every chance I get, but why support the Motor Company when they don't support me?
There are plenty of fine Screamin Eagle's I'd love to have and buying used doesn't bother me at all.

SBB


Although a larger garage will be needed! 

I think it will be a long time until I buy a new bike.  I may never buy a TBW bike - because they scare the crap out of me.  Like I told Chip, the only thing worse than limp mode is WFO mode.

[Chains]

Exactly Phil.  Similar issues were found with electrical connections and sensitive electronics in auto's decades ago, and measures were taken then to improve the materials and to seal the connections, and also pack the connections with dielectric compound as well.  Pull apart the connectors on your car or truck for the critical electronics in the engine management system, the ABS, the airbags, etc. and you will find these things. 

One of the things I don't understand is how H-D can constantly reinvent defects that were identified and fixed elsewhere 10 or 20 years earlier.  They don't actually invent any of this stuff, they sub most of it out to companies like Delphi for pete's sake.  Since Delphi is highly aware of the importance of any increased resistance in this type of circuit, I have to believe there are some other factors such as $$ that cause these problems to resurface.  Things like better quality pin and socket materials, connector seals, and dielectric compound cost more.  And even though they charge more for some of their motorcycles than car companies do for a modern 4 or 5 passenger car or SUV, H-D is obviously so inefficient that they have to scrimp on the important parts to maintain the profit margins.

I'd still like to know how this issue doesn't even deserve a real service bulletin, much less a recall.  Hiding this in a "Tech Tip" is ridiculous.  Especially after all the hoopla over Toyota's throttle control issues, someone at H-D needs to remove their head from their butt and finally become proactive. 


Jerry

Anytime you have Delphi or any other automotive company in the mix you are going to have issues.  Delphi is notorious for beating their good vendors down on price till they cannot make a profit then when all is said and done they move it to China or Mexico to get a lower cost.  I have personally dealt with the crazy people in these companies and they are relentless at screwing American companies out of their profit. Until things come full circle again you can count on crap from Mother Harley and all the others trying to make their shareholders happy.  What a shame for a $35,000 bike to have electrical problems in 2010.

[SBB]

Here's a ironic note.

http://shine.yahoo.com/event/travel/7-worst-roads-in-america-1229355/

I had never been to Louisiana till the end of last month and I was on both of the roads listed above as #1 and #2 worst roads in America.

And the dealer asked me if I had been on any rough roads because that could cause the connectors to have an issue.

                                              

SBB

[sadunbar]

Here's a ironic note.

http://shine.yahoo.com/event/travel/7-worst-roads-in-america-1229355/

I had never been to Louisiana till the end of last month and I was on both of the roads listed above as #1 and #2 worst roads in America.

And the dealer asked me if I had been on any rough roads because that could cause the connectors to have an issue.

                                              

SBB

Logic dictates there will be a product notification issued by the MOCO listing which roads are acceptable and which roads are unacceptable for TBW model motorcycles.  Maybe the GPS units can be pre-programmed with this information so GPS created routes can avoid unacceptable roads.....    

[Black Diamond]

Logic dictates there will be a product notification issued by the MOCO listing which roads are acceptable and which roads are unacceptable for TBW model motorcycles.  Maybe the GPS units can be pre-programmed with this information so GPS created routes can avoid unacceptable roads.....    

Damn...now I have to buy a GPS from mother Harley! 

[grc]

Perhaps you guys with TBW should all get together and contact Willy and the boys about a free suspension upgrade, so their cheap wiring won't leave you stranded.  Or maybe along with rubber mounting the engine, they need to rubber mount the electrical connectors.

You've got to start thinking outside the box, folks.  Trying to find only smooth roads is going to put a major damper on your riding, since many/most localities don't have the money to properly fix potholes, much less repave worn out roads.  I'm all for the upgraded suspension myself.  Hey Willy, if you're reading this what do you say?


Jerry

[SIX38]

I decided to be proactive about this issue, because in the end we all end up making changes and improvements to our Harley's that make the bikes better.
 I took apart the connector, put on my magnifying lenses and inspected the pins and sockets. They appear to be gold plated, looked in pretty good shape, although there was a small amount of silt inside the housing. (I did an awful lot of riding in the rain last year.) I cleaned everthing with alcohol and swabs, packed connector with electrical contact grease and reassembled. I noticed some wear to the bottom of the ECM where the caddy tension clips contact the ECM so I added some closed cell neoprene gasket tape to cushion it in the mounting caddy. Then I wrapped the connector with Loctite Insulating & Sealing Tape #1212164 (great item to have in your emergency tool kit) to keep water from getting into connector. Finally I made sure that the wiring harness was securely fastened to the frame with ty-wraps to prevent movement at the connector. I hope all this helps.
 The never ending product improvement done not by the MOCO but us owners goes on, which shows the value of CVOHARLEY. Thanks for the heads up SBB.
Tom P.

http://www.henkelna.com/us/content_data/103643_loctite_insulating_sealing_wrap_sell_sheet_final.pdf

[southtxcruiser]

well chitt.... atleast i know how to reset the dam thing now...... on run and cycle it four times ehhh.... hope i can remember that..

[knothead]

Thanks SBB for posting this thread.

 I sent the information to some of my CVO buddy's here in Houston, low and behold my buddy was stranded out in West Texas last weekend. He used this thread to get him back to Houston. One of our local dealers replaced two worn connector pins at the ECM module.

  His bike has @ 20,000 miles just as yours...