www.CVOHARLEY.com
CVO Technical => Twin Cam => Topic started by: Hondo2doc on April 21, 2017, 09:24:05 AM
-
Well because of bad rings the moco is putting a new motor in my 2015 SESG. So I figured while it's at the dealer might as well put in the 117 kit too. My dealer has made me a really good deal to do this. But don't wanna use the 259 cam with that kit. So I'll use the top end 117 kit #92500050 plus I have a 58mm throttle body. I'll get new injectors too. Plus have my heads ported. I have read and read and read past posts about all the different cams and what they'll do. I need suggestions for a cam that will compliment the 117.
I'm not looking to run at 120 plus. I enjoy getting from 30 to 110 real fast. I'm not a mechanic by any means but I do understand you need good "matching" parts with a build to work together.
So any cam input would be greatly appreciated, thanks.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
-
If your sticking with a HD cam several have had very good luck with the SE 585. Texas103 is running that set up and happy. If your open to the aftermarket world that opens a whole different world. I am running the 24D Kury with a very restrictive exhaust and low compression and very happy with where it ended up on bottom end.
-
T-Man 600-C. I am changing out the 24d's that I have in my build right now. The 24-d is a good cam but that big inch motor will need a little more cam.
Be Safe
THE DAWG
-
Your question is about putting together a good combination of parts.
With a .030 HG (not part of the kit) you will be at a true 10:1 or thereabouts.
That will limit the search for the right cam. Even the SE259 will be a little short on CR. Soft down low which could be slightly exaggerated with ported heads.
The SE 585 in the 117" at 10:1 would be the equivalent of the stock SE255 in the 110 motor but by virtue of the added inches this would be a tire shredder and very twitchy at low speeds unless the TBW is tuned to compensate. Instant high torque and dying early.
There are a whole plethora of "good cams" best advice is get the heads ported by someone that understands how to put together a combination of parts and avoid what some guy ran in this or that bike as a good / bad cam thermometer. Better yet a guy that is used to working with dealer packages and does not think you have to throw out the baby with the bathwater and start from scratch with aftermarket parts. At the same time your particular needs and how you typically ride are important. The cam is a bit like the brains of the motor, pipe being a close second so those choices are very important as well as matching the rest of the parts.
As the cubic inches grow what was a "big" cam now comes into its own and fits the need many times and SE cams often times fit the need quite well.
-
Wow great responses thanks. Yes I should have mentioned I have Thundermax tuner and D&D boarzilla 2 into 1. I have no need/desire to stay with Harley parts. I had a S&S 570 cam in my current motor. Loved that cam. It kicked in at 3100 and seemed to continue to pull hard up to about 117 or 118 MPH.
I have read some very impressive first hand accounts of the T-man 600.
I could just move that S&S 570 into the 117. But I thought I could do a little better with the 117. And still keep it daily rider dependable.
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
-
This is a 117" motor. I would hope your goals are a bit higher than 120hp. That is done all the time by others that just bolt one together at the dealers with less than a great pipe and tune and very large squish.
The 570 will work. If the compression is adjusted to a true fluid checked 10.2:1 with a .030 squish it will work even better. Understand the 570 that came on at 3k (too late something is not right) in the 110 will come on 300 rpm or so sooner in a 117" and that said if the compression is adjusted and heads flowed tuned with a flash tuner it will do better yet. Do I love the cam and use it in most builds, no. Is it a good cam? Yes when matched to the rest of the parts, the owners requirements, and the motors demands. Is it appropriate and will work fine here, yes possibly assuming the rest of the gaps are closed.
I would ebay the Tmax and use a flash tuner and get the bike properly dyno tuned.
-
Ain't no wrench, myself there, Bro. Ain't done no mods myself, since the Shovel-Head days. However, I do read and observe everything I can concerning the quest for HP. I constantly pick the brains of people smarter than me, and I still make mistakes, 'cause I'm old school. Bigger ain't always better, but I have a hard time accepting that. Before I decided to have my 124 built, I considered the 117. Here's what I've seen with my own eyes, and concluded to be a fact, in my "Creek Boy" mind. If you're a "twister", your stock Crank will NOT withstand over 110 HP. Not if you ride like I do. Some "experts" here will disagree with my assessment, but I've seen 2 sets of Stock 110 Flywheels, scissored. Put a bottom end in your Motor. Good luck! Speed costs money. How fast you wanna' go? There endeth the lesson. Later--HUBBARD
-
Wow great responses thanks. Yes I should have mentioned I have Thundermax tuner and D&D boarzilla 2 into 1. I have no need/desire to stay with Harley parts. I had a S&S 570 cam in my current motor. Loved that cam. It kicked in at 3100 and seemed to continue to pull hard up to about 117 or 118 MPH.
I have read some very impressive first hand accounts of the T-man 600.
I could just move that S&S 570 into the 117. But I thought I could do a little better with the 117. And still keep it daily rider dependable.
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
You've got too much pipe there, too, IMHO. Borzillas are designed for 120+'s. That exhaust will cost you backpressure, therefore cost you performance. Fat-Cat would be better. Again, the "experts" here may disagree. Just a "Creek Boy's" opinion. Built a lot of Motors. Ain't no rookie. Won a lot of races, and lost a lot of 'em, too. But I will twist one for all it's got. There endeth the lesson. Good Luck! Later--HUBBARD
-
letem upgrade to se120 instead
-
The Boarzilla will be right at home at 117". Many have been done and perform well using that pipe on this size motor. They also have very respectable low end and mid torque when not overcammed, again the combination of parts.
-
Your question is about putting together a good combination of parts.
With a .030 HG (not part of the kit) you will be at a true 10:1 or thereabouts.
That will limit the search for the right cam. Even the SE259 will be a little short on CR. Soft down low which could be slightly exaggerated with ported heads.
The SE 585 in the 117" at 10:1 would be the equivalent of the stock SE255 in the 110 motor but by virtue of the added inches this would be a tire shredder and very twitchy at low speeds unless the TBW is tuned to compensate. Instant high torque and dying early.
There are a whole plethora of "good cams" best advice is get the heads ported by someone that understands how to put together a combination of parts and avoid what some guy ran in this or that bike as a good / bad cam thermometer. Better yet a guy that is used to working with dealer packages and does not think you have to throw out the baby with the bathwater and start from scratch with aftermarket parts. At the same time your particular needs and how you typically ride are important. The cam is a bit like the brains of the motor, pipe being a close second so those choices are very important as well as matching the rest of the parts.
As the cubic inches grow what was a "big" cam now comes into its own and fits the need many times and SE cams often times fit the need quite well.
Great Post here :2vrolijk_21: :2vrolijk_21: My only (slight) disagreement is that I selected Cams / Static Compression by reading some Threads here, and evaluating the Curves first and the #s second :nixweiss:
The 259s that come in the kit can work well if given the proper headwork / compression...
My favorite are the T-Man 625s Along with the T-Man CVO Street Performer Heads at 10.4 Static, great TQ from 2k, pulls to 6k...
An Indy friend has done an impressive Build with the "new" T-man 585s, in a 110 Drop-in Kit (also at 10.4) near identical curves, Great early TQ with a little more HP up top.. and he's using the 'Zilla,,, Very surprised at the Left Side of the Curve with the 'Zilla, (no Dip at all) Has the Heads / Tune Dialed In... He said it was very easy to tune with Direct Link, A great example of what was stated in the Post above,,, an Indy working with / optimizing the components of the Drop-in Kits... They are currently Digitizing the 103 Heads ( CNC repeatability) for the 110 Drop-in Combination, and are working on 110 Heads for the 117 Drop-in Kits...
Both of these Cams will CCP around 192-195 when set up around 10.4, Great "Sport Touring" Cams for Baggers,,, Easy to Tune,,,
Effortless Power Everywhere,,,
Some of the Quietest Cams out there...
Headwork (nothing drastic) comes into play, tying in, the "Drop-in Kits to perform as good as anything else...
Just MHO,,, your results may vary...
-
Pipe is very influential on the curve and if the static compression is set appropriately for the cams intake closing things usually align quite well. Back pressure is not desireable and with a pipe that is properly sized it will let the motor breath as well as not murder the low end (overscavenging and/or reversion).
At 117" a very mild cam is 245° duration. This is why I don't have favorite cams. I have a lot of favorites. I have had very good luck with the 259e but it takes much more static compression before they will come on. At the end of the day a cam with a little earlier intake close will net all the same numbers and curve with lower static compression.
-
Pipe is very influential on the curve and if the static compression is set appropriately for the cams intake closing things usually align quite well. Back pressure is not desireable and with a pipe that is properly sized it will let the motor breath as well as not murder the low end (overscavenging and/or reversion).
At 117" a very mild cam is 245° duration. This is why I don't have favorite cams. I have a lot of favorites. I have had very good luck with the 259e but it takes much more static compression before they will come on. At the end of the day a cam with a little earlier intake close will net all the same numbers and curve with lower static compression.
Another great post here lots of good solid info :2vrolijk_21: :2vrolijk_21:
I have two or three favorites and he has many...
It shows the difference between a knowledgeable Builder and someone like myself with much less experience...
-
You guys rock thx so very much.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
-
If your sticking with a HD cam several have had very good luck with the SE 585. Texas103 is running that set up and happy. If your open to the aftermarket world that opens a whole different world. I am running the 24D Kury with a very restrictive exhaust and low compression and very happy with where it ended up on bottom end.
X-2 lol.. Pretty pleased with the SE 585. Torque curve goes straight up, Nice and smooth, hits hard. I'm sure I gave up some on the right side , that's ok, don't ride out there. zero decked ,Shaved the heads .018, 92cc chanbers, .030 gasket. Have to go back look think the static 10.6-1 ,CCP is 208. Also slipped a 2.120 MVA intake valve. Total cost was $484. Factory kit gaskets leaves a lot top be desired..SE 585 Kury 24D have had experience with both. Great cams . I chose the SE 585 to get that 900 lb bagger moving..PM me if you like and we can chat..Greg
-
a 117 will make some big tq with a small cam and you could swap in many of the smaller cams and never know what one you had seat of the pants.. Just completed a 117 build with stock heads stock t/b our 577 cam DX head pipe and RC extreme mufflers made 135 tq.. HP was only right at 113 but muffler created some of that . stock heads stock t/b limits you there . But for a twist it non thinking build it fits the bill and then some.