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[FR8TRN]

I know they have their own space, and I know it's been talked about in the past, but I'm bringing it up again and I'd like owners opinions of it.  Of you fine folks that have the ThunderMax and AutoTune (or just the ThunderMax), how do ya like it now.....after having had it on for a while???  How about installing the AutoTune, did ya just change pipes or install bungs on your existing exhaust??  Routing the wiring, I'm guessing the front sensor has to route under the tank, easy enough to do??

I'm nearly done with the bike (if the damn tools would hurry up and get here) and have been looking to Dyno, but I don't really trust anybody local here......so I'm considering jumpin overboard and getting the ThunderMax/AutoTune setup.  Zippers is local to me so I can just run down and get it when I decide.

[Twolanerider]

This has all been covered a bit in different places but I'll take a shot at doing it here in one place.  Our intermittent faux winter this year finally arrived just about the time I got mine installed.  So I've only got a little over 400 miles on the bike since it was installed.  First impression, however, are that I'm surprisingly pleased with the system.  Will cover your questions (somewhat) ad seriatim:

how do ya like it now:  The system seems to work completely as advertised and expected.  A dyno run tracked the AFR quite accurately to to what the autotune settings were set for.

change pipes or bungs on your existing exhaust:  Bungs on my pipes.  $10 for a pair of bungs, and 20 minutes using a hole saw, ball peen hammer and dragging out the welder didn't justify the cost of a set of pipes.  Plus no concerns about "would it fit?"  Just pick and ideal spot and stick 'em on.  No problems at all with the install.


Routing the wiring:  Still eyeballing after a ride to make sure not getting any chafing anyplace.  But so far it has looked as if that shouldn't be an issue.  Rear sensor comes back strapped to the starter bracket, under the frame and comes out to the ECM area under the battery box.  Straped down to a vertical frame tube and keeps good clearance from the swingarm.  My front sensor did not go under the tank.  Out of the pipe, strapped that little cross support piece between the downtubes, then down the right downtube, runs along the tube joining all the other harness and line running along the inside of the tube and meets the connector from the autotune module just forward of the transmission.


You wrote that you were considering the unit since you were close to Zippers.  Just the ECM by itself I personally would never do unless that were the case.  No two bikes are ever the same.  No one (ok, almost no one) but them can tune that ECM.  Since I could never get it actually tuned to the bike I'd choose not to use it.  Just among the population here there are too many stories of close not being good enough.  

With the autotune package, however, it is proving to be a very slick package indeed.  The setup after installation is straighforward and obviously laid out in the cheat sheet they send.  After that's done the system "just works."  So far anyway I've found nothing to knock it for.  From me that's pretty high praise.

[ultrafxr]

Twolane, I have heard that it sometimes throws a fault code that can't be cleared.  And, any problems at all with the security system?  How about the '07 with that self-arming feature?  And for the '07 110s with the acr, I think I read that that was (or will be shortly) available, but does it work without any problems?

[Twolanerider]

Twolane, I have heard that it sometimes throws a fault code that can't be cleared.  And, any problems at all with the security system?  How about the '07 with that self-arming feature?  And for the '07 110s with the acr, I think I read that that was (or will be shortly) available, but does it work without any problems?

Don't have an 07 so can't personally speak to any of those issues.  Have read here that the ACR fix is "in production" and due in hand to them "soon."  The new 07 security system (which I like less and less the more I hear of it) also had some issues that I honestly don't remember the resolution to.

On my 05, however, the alarm system still works as it always did.  The only differences that one immediately notices (not discussing how it runs, just differences in operation) on my bike are that it starts a little quicker/easier (even with the slightly higher compression) and that turn signal cancelling behaves a bit differently.  Initially I thought I had a problem there.  It wasn't. Just "different."  They take about a second a half longer to turn off now than they did before.  But they still turn off.

[Unbalanced]

The alarm system actually wasn't broke when it was released the issue was thought to be the alarm when in fact it was the ACR blowing the fuses on the system.  They are in production of the newest version of the software and the hardware to eliminate having to by pass the ACR if you dont want to do that.   It is expected to be released in approx 2 weeks give or take, (disclaimer applies here).

As far as routing goes when we had it on my 07' the wiring went down below the oil filter towards the left side of the bike and following the frame rail up to the rear cylinder then up to the ecm.   In the original style of the auto tune you could clip the back side of the mounting plate of the stock ECM and the add on would wire tie into there nice and neatly.  The thunder max bolted into where the ECM existed.   Nice clean and simple the only issue that I found was having to get the sensor past the rear brake master cylinder.   Just took some twisting and fitmet tries nothing to demanding.

[FR8TRN]

Thanks for the replies guys, unless we get some folks on here that are having nothing but problems I'll probably go pick one up.  Would be nice to see a few more replies........

[SCRM-R]

I have the ThunderMax without the autotune...so far, the only issue that I have is that the turn signals will not self-cancel...a minor inconvenience really.  I am going to have it dynoed tomorrow to check the AFR and see if I need to have it tuned, or perhaps get the autotune feature added.  I'm also going to check and make sure that the correct code for my bike is programmed into the ECM, which "might" be the problem with the turn signals.  I will have a better idea by the end of the day tomorrow.  Otherwise, I love it...runs smooth, strong, and absolutely removed ALL of the decel popping from the Rineharts...that alone is worth the cost of the ThunderMax to me.

[FR8TRN]

Well I picked one up on Monday, got it installed yesterday, hopefully I'll have the bike back together today and can get in some miles soon.  Lookin forward to this.  Installation wasn't too bad, think I got all the wires routed out of harms way.  Just had bungs welded onto my V&H True Dual exhaust, seems they are out of the way enough to not be easily seen.  Thanks for the information, made it a little easier to throw $800 at it........

[bisounours]

Hey friends,

You have a special offer by THUNDERMAX :
309-300R ThunderMax module only (to be run in open loop) $ 389.00
309-330R ThunderMax with AutoTune (to be run in closed loop) $ 729.00  [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]
at this place :

http://www.zippersperformance.com/catalogue/showproduct.asp?cat=588&prod=2181

I've put this offer in this thread :

http://flhrsei.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?num=1169064199

Jacques

[FR8TRN]

Well I got about 60 miles on it, it's obvious the AutoTune is doing it's job, had a HUGE flatspot at 2K RPM doing about 50mph and roll on the throttle, on/off with the switch a couple times and reenact the same scenario it got better and better til it was just gone.  Still has a cough going from decel to accel at around 1500 RPM, I'm sure it'll work itself out.  The ThunderMax does seem to make it run smoother.  Was hoping for a little more kick-in-the-a$$ from the 575's but it's never enough, I'm just happy to feel some improvement.

[DCFIREMANN]

FR8TRN congrats on the new auto tune. I can't wait till I get a chance to get mine installed.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[Twolanerider]

Well I got about 60 miles on it, it's obvious the AutoTune is doing it's job, had a HUGE flatspot at 2K RPM doing about 50mph and roll on the throttle, on/off with the switch a couple times and reenact the same scenario it got better and better til it was just gone.  Still has a cough going from decel to accel at around 1500 RPM, I'm sure it'll work itself out.  The ThunderMax does seem to make it run smoother.  Was hoping for a little more kick-in-the-a$$ from the 575's but it's never enough, I'm just happy to feel some improvement.

Noticed things similar for the first couple hundred miles Mike.  It was never "bad" anyplace.  But certain little noticable things did smooth out.  It wasn't even all just me getting used to how it was running.  The bike really does work itself in and get better with the passage of the first several miles.  Glad your impressions are positive as well.  Have fun and enjoy the new parts.

[FR8TRN]

FR8TRN congrats on the new auto tune. I can't wait till I get a chance to get mine installed.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

Quit wastin time Dawg, get it done   [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]  ......I was surprised at how easy it was getting the AutoTune in there, I thought it would be a pain routing the wiring, but it's almost invisible and took almost no time.  I did have to put the box on top of the ECM though, the area behind my ECM Mount was taken up by the alarm module and various other things, shouldn't be a problem though.

[FR8TRN]

Noticed things similar for the first couple hundred miles Mike.  It was never "bad" anyplace.  But certain little noticable things did smooth out.  It wasn't even all just me getting used to how it was running.  The bike really does work itself in and get better with the passage of the first several miles.  Glad your impressions are positive as well.  Have fun and enjoy the new parts.

The flat spot was bad, I got on the throttle and it would just fall right on it's face, but it's gone.  Got out for about 50 miles today again, the cough only happened once about half way thru, so hopefully it's getting itself worked out also.  Happened a bunch more the other day.

What are you running the AFR at???

[Twolanerider]

What are you running the AFR at???

So far left at the original setting of 13.0:1 across the board.  At that set of settings it got 38-39 mpg.  Before good weather comes back to stay I'm going to change it a bit though.  Will leave it at 13:1 below 2600 and above 3200 for the pass-a-truck effect and any moderate cooling effect idling in warmer weather.  At those highway cruise-control cruise RPMs though I'm going to move it to 13.6-13.7 or somewhere in that range.  See if I really "feel" the difference at all and see if makes any appreciable difference to cruising fuel mileage.

[SPIDERMAN]

Please do not think that this post is a diss because it's not, but my question is WHY? As in why did you buy this unit over a SERT. What does this unit do that a SERT dialed in by a knowledgeable tech doesn't ? I've read all of the posts above and I must be missing something, because the adjectives being used tend to be on the mild side. Why am I not seeing any superlatives here ? I've got a SERT and Reinharts on Elvis and I don't get any popping on decel. I get it on LD because LD has stock headpipes which allow cold air to run up the left side on decel. My understanding of that issue is that a properly tuned engine running true duals should not pop on decel. S'anyway, I'm just wondering you know, and seriously hope this post is not offensive.

B B

[Hoist!]

Please do not think that this post is a diss because it's not, but my question is WHY? As in why did you buy this unit over a SERT. [highlight]What does this unit do that a SERT dialed in by a knowledgeable tech doesn't ?[/highlight] I've read all of the posts above and I must be missing something, because the adjectives being used tend to be on the mild side. Why am I not seeing any superlatives here ? I've got a SERT and Reinharts on Elvis and I don't get any popping on decel. I get it on LD because LD has stock headpipes which allow cold air to run up the left side on decel. My understanding of that issue is that a properly tuned engine running true duals should not pop on decel. S'anyway, I'm just wondering you know, and seriously hope this post is not offensive.

B B

You can let the guys that have it explain how they like it and their reasons why. But from everything I've read about it, the self-tuning feature (auto-tune) seems to be the major reason. You can put a close map in and it will, over time, tune itself, thereby eliminating the need to have a technician tune it. And when you make changes, you just saved another tune. It will continue to self-tune. All my warranty talk aside, that definitely seems like the cat's ass to me and the way to go. If it works right and reliably, all the time. Other than that,regardless of the product you use (PC, SERT, etc.), that product should be based on what your tuner knows and works with for the best tune. That's my understanding without trying to diss or offend you in any way either B B! Hoist! 8-)

[Twolanerider]

Please do not think that this post is a diss because it's not, but my question is WHY? As in why did you buy this unit over a SERT. What does this unit do that a SERT dialed in by a knowledgeable tech doesn't ? I've read all of the posts above and I must be missing something, because the adjectives being used tend to be on the mild side. Why am I not seeing any superlatives here ? I've got a SERT and Reinharts on Elvis and I don't get any popping on decel. I get it on LD because LD has stock headpipes which allow cold air to run up the left side on decel. My understanding of that issue is that a properly tuned engine running true duals should not pop on decel. S'anyway, I'm just wondering you know, and seriously hope this post is not offensive.

B B

A few things Brian.  I'm accepting now that the unit is accurate.  So it is accurate, all the time, constantly adjusting to be so, under all ambient and environmental circumstances.  That is more than the stock system does.

It adjusts to changes.  So if I get a wild hair to change pipes (as I'll need to in another year or so) the cost of those pipes won't be added on to by a new dyno tune to make sure I'm getting the best use of them.  Put the change on, whatever it might be, go ride the bike a bit, and voila; retuned.  No hundreds of dollars of repetitive dyno time.

To repeat the first one; it is accurate.  Repeated for a different reason though.  I'm lucky to have a great dyno guy right here.  Most aren't though.  We all know how average (at best) most of the tunes are.  This system dials you in without having to worry about it.

There's more to getting it to accomplish all that of course.  But the core of the gain is more measurement and accuracy provided than the stock system can supply and the (almost) automatic ease with which it's gained.  

I may occasionally like to tinker with some occasional minor changes on the bike.  I know, I know, you never touch yours and they stay as bone stock as the day you rode them home.  But I occasionally tinker, just a little bit.  But I'm also appreciative of being lazy when I can get away with it too.  The autotuning capability allows me to be lazy.  I can do the tinkering I might enjoy and the bike will take care of the rest.  

Say, oh, for example, I put a Doherty PowerPacc on some hypothetical orange bike.  I just knew by the feel that it made things better.  But the only way I'd know I was fully taking advantage of how much better it might make things would be to add the cost of a dyno tune on to the cost of the air cleaner.  With this I wouldn't even have to consider it.

[FR8TRN]

So far left at the original setting of 13.0:1 across the board.  At that set of settings it got 38-39 mpg.  Before good weather comes back to stay I'm going to change it a bit though.  Will leave it at 13:1 below 2600 and above 3200 for the pass-a-truck effect and any moderate cooling effect idling in warmer weather.  At those highway cruise-control cruise RPMs though I'm going to move it to 13.6-13.7 or somewhere in that range.  See if I really "feel" the difference at all and see if makes any appreciable difference to cruising fuel mileage.

Thats not bad, I got in the low 40's before, so I'll have to see where the default setting takes me in MPG.....seems easy enough to change it if I wanna.  I just want to give it time to work things out before I start making changes.

[FR8TRN]

Please do not think that this post is a diss because it's not, but my question is WHY? As in why did you buy this unit over a SERT. What does this unit do that a SERT dialed in by a knowledgeable tech doesn't ? I've read all of the posts above and I must be missing something, because the adjectives being used tend to be on the mild side. Why am I not seeing any superlatives here ? I've got a SERT and Reinharts on Elvis and I don't get any popping on decel. I get it on LD because LD has stock headpipes which allow cold air to run up the left side on decel. My understanding of that issue is that a properly tuned engine running true duals should not pop on decel. S'anyway, I'm just wondering you know, and seriously hope this post is not offensive.

B B

What Don said, mostly for me I don't have a tuner around here I'd trust, thats why it was a last minute decision for me, I kept looking for one.  I also switch between my V&H Ovals and Samson Rolled Thunder Ovals, so I'll be optimized no matter which exhaust I'm running.  I have a SERT in the box with my old ECM now, and they'll stay there, cause if I change bikes, this setup is goin with me.   If I don't change bikes I'll be goin to something bigger in a year or two (117" maybe) and this will do it without needing to be Dyno'd.  And as I explained to my wife, it's a safety item!!!  [smiley=jalapeno.gif]

[Twolanerider]

If I don't change bikes I'll be goin to something bigger in a year or two (117" maybe) and this will do it without needing to be Dyno'd.  And as I explained to my wife, it's a safety item!!!  [smiley=jalapeno.gif]

That large of a difference would almost certainly require a change though.  Hit the T-Max website for a base map that is closer to the new starting point and download it.  Then let the system do it's work from those closer starting points.  Just a tiny bit of extra chore, but it's free and still absolutely no work compared to finding a tuner.

I've got the old ECM saved also.  It's in an anti-static bag sealed inside of a ziploc with a little dessicant pouch inside.  Then it's wrapped inside one round of bubble wrap and stuck in the bottom of the left saddlebag underneath all the other stuff that never comes out of that bad.  So it's my backup in case the other system ever craps out on the side of the road someplace.

[hdnut]

My dealer is going to order up a new closed loop system for me Monday[they are a zippers dealer].Sorry but i wont be able to give a update on how it works until April when it warms up around here.But all i need to hear is that Twolane likes it,good enough for me!!!! [smiley=orange.gif] [smiley=pumpkin.gif] [smiley=drink.gif]

[Boatman]

I'm with you Hdnut.  If it (Tmax w/AT)  satisfies 2Lane, it will satify anybody including me.  I don't mean it in a bad way in saying that.  More of  a complement.

[SPIDERMAN]

Don,
       Thanks for the detailed explanation. I can see why. Great for those of us who like to try different things. One of the best things I saw in the posts that came after mine explaining things was the one that talked about being able to " take it with you" when you change bikes. That alone makes it worth the high dollar price initially.

B B

[hdnut]

I liked that too Spider! [smiley=orange.gif]

[Twolanerider]

My dealer is going to order up a new closed loop system for me Monday[they are a zippers dealer].Sorry but i wont be able to give a update on how it works until April when it warms up around here.But all i need to hear is that Twolane likes it,good enough for me!!!! [smiley=orange.gif] [smiley=pumpkin.gif] [smiley=drink.gif]

I'm with you Hdnut.  If it (Tmax w/AT)  satisfies 2Lane, it will satify anybody including me.  I don't mean it in a bad way in saying that.  More of  a complement.

Thanks guys.  I enjoy it when a vendor or mftr does a good job.  Will try to as directly as I can offer why that seems so and what the benefits or amusements might be.  Will also try to just as accurately warn when a vendor of mftr seems to have dropped the ball so friends can avoid my mistake.  Sometimes that can mean both praising and questioning the same vendor on their different products.  Truly appreciate the kind words and trust.  Certainly hope you are as pleased with how your systems behave and what they'll do for you as I've been.

[FR8TRN]

That large of a difference would almost certainly require a change though.  Hit the T-Max website for a base map that is closer to the new starting point and download it.  Then let the system do it's work from those closer starting points.  Just a tiny bit of extra chore, but it's free and still absolutely no work compared to finding a tuner.

I've got the old ECM saved also.  It's in an anti-static bag sealed inside of a ziploc with a little dessicant pouch inside.  Then it's wrapped inside one round of bubble wrap and stuck in the bottom of the left saddlebag underneath all the other stuff that never comes out of that bad.  So it's my backup in case the other system ever craps out on the side of the road someplace.

Yeah I'd have to load another base map, but that 5 minutes wouldn't hurt me near as bad as another $300 Dyno Tune....

Good idea on stashin it in the bag, might just do that myself, guess I better load that Map you gave me on it first though, wouldn't do much good with the one on it now.

[Twolanerider]

Yeah I'd have to load another base map, but that 5 minutes wouldn't hurt me near as bad as another $300 Dyno Tune....

Good idea on stashin it in the bag, might just do that myself, guess I better load that Map you gave me on it first though, wouldn't do much good with the one on it now.

Definitely would make for a safer trip in.  With the "close enough" map loaded it just seemed silly not to throw it in the saddlebag.  Probably won't ever need it.  But would be sweet to have it with you if you did  [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif] .

[FR8TRN]

Definitely would make for a safer trip in.  With the "close enough" map loaded it just seemed silly not to throw it in the saddlebag.  Probably won't ever need it.  But would be sweet to have it with you if you did  [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif] .

First on my list to do......soon as I get back from FL.

[HDguy]

With the T-Max with auto tune can the dealership still do diagnostic checks, pull trouble codes etc if the check eng. light should come on. I am on the fence about whether to get it or the SERT.

[Rhino]

Hi All,

Installed my Tmax new version w AutoTune on my 07 SEUC.  Took all of 15 minutes, plus an hour to take off pipe to clear fitment on front with the sensor.  (Rinehart). No big deal.  Set up auto IAC, and let it go.  Started it up, rode it for a bit, did about three stops and starts, and it is SWEEEEET. 

I like the live everything when online, and frankly, it's gonna put a few tuners out of business.  It's a quick bike now because it is tuned correctly.  It is a nice piece.

The sert is ok too, but you must rely on a tuner to get your there. That is the issue. The autotune is the cherry on the cake.

I feel Zippers has hit one out of the park on this technology. 

On another note, some like the PC series.  You make the adjustments as an add on piece to fool the stock ECM. But here is the kicker.  The ECM will win back the stock settings, overiding the PC after a while. I don't know how this supposedly does it, but it has something to do with the stock ECM and it's closed loop adjustments wanting to take it back to the original base maps.  That is not a good thing.

I am pretty happy with all of it.  I had the SERT, and relyed on a tuner, but I was still getting hot on the rear cyl.  Even got a tinge of yellowing on the rear badge.  I am searching for a new clean one, and with the Autotune, it will stay clean too.

Rhino

[ultrafxr]

With the T-Max with auto tune can the dealership still do diagnostic checks, pull trouble codes etc if the check eng. light should come on. I am on the fence about whether to get it or the SERT.

I spoke to Zippers with this exact question and the answer is no, the dealership cannot use their digital technician to pull trouble codes.  Must use the T-max software to communicate with the T-max ecm.  This is a big concern for me since I can forsee real problems if engine malfunctions due to some faulty sensor that may have nothing to do with the T-max ecm but could cause a real spitting contest between you, the dealer and the moco or extended warranty folks.  And if should have trouble while on the road, well I don't want to even think about that. 

Seems that it works great but there are other components in this equation that could cause problems it seems to me.

[Twolanerider]

With the T-Max with auto tune can the dealership still do diagnostic checks, pull trouble codes etc if the check eng. light should come on. I am on the fence about whether to get it or the SERT.

As Jerry mentioned above it's really "not exactly."  There are trouble codes that can be read.  You'd need to carry the T-Max software and their cable along with you (mine are already tucked away in an out of the way pocket on the bike). 

In an ideal and logical world one wouldn't see an issue with telling a service mgr, "hey, you can read that ok, just load this software up on a laptop."  One can very easily and quickly envision, however, a variety of less than favorable responses to that request.

It is completely legitimate, for example, for someone to tell you "no, I'm not loading your software on my computers, I don't know where it came from."  That is a completely legit response.  They could also just choose to be assholes and be difficult on purpose.

My own solution to that was simple enough.  The stock ECM is going to be pretty close.  Certainly close enough to run for a bit if need be.  It came off the T-Max to go on.  It then went in a static back in the bottom of the saddlebag.  So if there's ever a problem on the road in an area where the shop chooses not be helpful I'll spend 15 minutes swapping ECMs and then tell them "ok Mr. Helpful, read it now."

[HDguy]

Man oh Man, decisions, decisions, decisions. For me this will be a tough one. The Tmax with autotune is the way to go but if you do have problems YIKES it could get real ugly. Oh well I will just have to dig deep and make a decision.

Thanks for the input guys.

[Chief]

On another note, some like the PC series.  You make the adjustments as an add on piece to fool the stock ECM. But here is the kicker.  The ECM will win back the stock settings, overiding the PC after a while. I don't know how this supposedly does it, but it has something to do with the stock ECM and it's closed loop adjustments wanting to take it back to the original base maps.  That is not a good thing.

Rhino

Rhino,

Without hijacking this thread, I'll have to step in here and say this is not true for a couple of reasons:

• The PC does not trick the ECM. The PC modifies the ECM's signals to the injectors. If anything is getting tricked, it is the injectors. The PC modifies the "Output" of the ECM, not the "Input"
• Closed loop mode is disabled because the O2 sensors are disconnected and the wires are capped with O2 sensor eliminators. Closed loop can't work without sensors.

I totally agree the TMax / AT is the best way to go.

Chief

[Rhino]

OK Cheif,

I'll agree with you as long as the sensors are disconnected.  I assume that is also part of the PC's operation.  But if they stayed connected.....then the comment would be correct. Without the sensor, the ecm has nothing to chase.

But isn't that defeatin the whole purpose?  The TMAX in closed loop with the wide band is exactly what we are all after anyway, the almighty AFR perfection.  Either preset or changed by the operator, in any one of 2,000 combinations that you can see on the screen, or even record an entire day of riding, gives me a lot more confidence that assuming the tuner did it correctly on a sert or PC.


Rhino

PS:  I have been running the Tmax Auto for all of 400 miles or so, and each ride sounds better and better.   As for diagnostics, you as the owner have more available with the TMAX, except perhaps the radio and other electrical??, but I don't think it would stop the engine.  Interesting question about check engine light.  I do not know if it would even work. I do know that there is diagnostics in the TMAX referring to it's own codes, if something is amiss.

I have a SERT also, now married to the original ECM, and the customed dyno map that was downloaded to it.  After a while, as I continue strengthening my confidence with the TMAX (so far 100% a-ok), I would get rid of it as a combo. The SERT, Cables and Stock ECM (has a new map for my config in it. )  But the beauty of the TMAX is that I don't need a Dyno ever again.


Oh yeh, and that last thing.  If the dealer does not take care of you, which I think is unlikely, just get on a laptop and pull the readings and settings.  The only thing I night carry along is the connector and my USB plug. Pull into any starbucks and borrow a computer from the best looking lass in there. 

Or Call Zippers and have them Fedex a Loaner overnight if it's that critical.  Or plug it in online, and let them diagnose it online too.

EnD

[Ironhorse]

Guys after my most recent experience with Zippers, I have to post.

The Thunder-Max Auto Tune is a good system period. My bike runs better than ever before.

However, I will have to caveat this posting by saying that in my experience, their customer service is horrible. E-mails go unanswered, voice mails never get return calls. Postings here on the Zippers forum go unanswered. I literally have to CHASE DOWN people in the building from department and area to department and area. I have ASKED to be placed on hold for long periods of time just so I can get the outside chance of speaking to someone who can help me and answer a few questions.

When I call, I ALWAYS get the same response, send an e-mail. So I do, and it takes damn near forever to get an answer. And when it does, of course I have follow up questions, that those take damn near forever to be answered. I just want to know why in the HELL can't these people call back when I leave a message?

[screamin eagle]

 I had the thundermax with auto tune installed on my wifes 06 lowrider and it runs great. It got ride of the backfiring when you down shift also. Zippers is installing the same thundermax with auto tune along with the 103 Muscle kit on my 06 SE FatBoy. They called and said that the tolerance on the crankshaft was so far out that the could not install gear drive cams. (They are seeing alot of them on 05's and newer) They are having it blue printed along with installing the Timken bearing. Now I know why harley does not sell gear drive cams.

[Unbalanced]

Screamin,

Is that crank going to be warrantied by Harley?   If not, why not if it is out that far?

just curious since your going through all that effort?   Also curious if your going to the 103 muscle kit and you have everything out of the bike why your not spending the little bit more and going 113 since the cases will be apart anyhow for the timken bearing?

[sqrrl24]

Harry,
   Do you know if Zippers will be at Daytona doing auto tune installs like they were last year with the Thundermax?

[Unbalanced]

As far as I understand they will be in the same spot as biketoberfest

[hogasm]

As far as I understand they will be in the same spot as biketoberfest

I'm feeling lots of love from that last post Unbalanced. 

shhhhhhhh..........

inside joke 

[Unbalanced]

Dear Mr. Bracey

Some things just gotta make you go hrmmmmm......

[screamin eagle]

 Unbalanced, I am not even going to go and speak to the Dealer about the Crankshaft. They know about all of them. This is there standard product. A new one would be the same, if not worse. I checked into upgrading my 103 package to a 113. Good call on your part as I forgot about the 113. Talked to Bill and he said I could still do it since they have not started to put it back together. For the price it was worth the extra HP and Torgue.

[Unbalanced]

Screamin,

I think you made a good call there and glad I was able to point you at it.   You should also consider putting in roller rockers for the 113 build over the standard rocker arms that come in the bike.   Looking forward to seeing how your build comes out.   The only other thing you might consider or ask Zippers about is the throttle body size.   I am not sure if your's is a 50 or a 46 on the Fatboy.  If its a 46 you may want to consider upping it to 50 by either a Zippers or a Screaming Eagle.   The screaming eagle comes with the larger injectors 4.89 gm/sec and is only 399.99 including the injectors and one piece manifold.

-harry

[screamin eagle]

 Harry, I am already on step ahead of ya. The 103 and the 113 kit comes with the larger 50mm throttle body. I was hoping to get the one piece but will have to wait and see. I am going to see Bill at Zippers tomorrow and willl discuss the roller rockers then. I will let you how things turn out. thanks  Michael

[SneakyPete]

Harry, I am already on step ahead of ya. The 103 and the 113 kit comes with the larger 50mm throttle body. I was hoping to get the one piece but will have to wait and see. I am going to see Bill at Zippers tomorrow and willl discuss the roller rockers then. I will let you how things turn out. thanks  Michael

Michael, my motor is at Zipper's now.  I am building the 120 muscle kit, originally started with a 113, but my crank was .008 out of tolerance and faced the same options as you have now.  I wasn't going back to chain tensioners (had already switched to their 575 cam with S&S gear drive) so decided to step up to the 4.5" S&S crank and build the 120 instead.  I have S&S roller rockers which I went to when I put in the 575 cams and I am keeping them.  Bill Lam is my guy there and is very helpful.  Good luck!

[DCFIREMANN]

I cannot believe that all of these crank assy's are that far out. Mine was out 8 thou also. I got mine just in time before my warranty expired. The new one was fine.

My (and Zippers) recommendation to anyone who pulls down a CVO motor. While the crank is out of the cases send it out to be welded. I think the added TQ with these motors not to mention the pressed crank assy's cause this problem. You will be money ahead in the long run.

I am also happy to hear that most all of you are happy with your auto tune. I still have not installed mine as of yet but will before I get deep into the riding season.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[Ironhorse]

I cannot believe that all of these crank assy's are that far out. Mine was out 8 thou also. I got mine just in time before my warranty expired. The new one was fine.

My (and Zippers) recommendation to anyone who pulls down a CVO motor. While the crank is out of the cases send it out to be welded. I think the added TQ with these motors not to mention the pressed crank assy's cause this problem. You will be money ahead in the long run.

I am also happy to hear that most all of you are happy with your auto tune. I still have not installed mine as of yet but will before I get deep into the riding season.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

Dawg,

What are you waiting on, you gotta install the Auto-Tune, it's awesome! You will not believe the difference!
On the engines, what's the easiest solution, to gut the HD TC and build it with Zippers components, or just buy a Zippers engine outright?
I keep reading these postings about clearance issues and other stuff it's got me leaning toward buying a complete Zippers built engine when the time comes.


Mark





Pardon te typos and spelling but this loaner PC sux.

[DCFIREMANN]

I would build one of my own, with the help of the crew at Zippers. They build a great motor. I can't wait till the weather breaks around here so I can get some miles on the motor. The AT will go on before I go to Myrtle. It runs great now but the map is not finished. A/F was set but no timing changes as of yet.

I am glad everyone is happy with the AT. I know I will be.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[Ironhorse]

I would build one of my own, with the help of the crew at Zippers. They build a great motor.
THE DAWG

I gotcha, so either send my motor, (or a set of used cases) over to Zippers and have them build one. Let them install their crank, bearings, cams, heads, yada,yada,yada, and then ship it back to me for install. I know when I built and supercharged the 5.9 engine on my Durango R/T I had to build a beefed up tranny, transfercase, and front and rear differentials to support the power and torque. Am I going to have to do the same with a built Zippers engine too?

Mark

[Unbalanced]

Ironhorse,

I wouldnt say you have to beef up the transmission, although you will need the supporting cast to be there.   I would recommend depending on the build a better clutch than the stock bike comes with, I would consider a heavy belt vs. a thin belt or go chain.   I would also consider the weakest link theory in any case of building up a motor.

In my case I went with a Baker R2 6 speed with tall first / 2nd gears and .080 6th gear.   I put the heavy belt on and even had a rear sprocket made for chain to go over the ultra hub (2.215).  I had a Zippers 50 mm originally on the bike and recently went to the 54mm and don't forget the oversized injectors.   I also installed the oversized air cleaner as well and Lyndall Zpad Plus break pads and floating rotors all the way around.   My problem now is putting the power to the ground and have the rear tire bite.

[SneakyPete]

Mark,

I was debating whether to buy the parts and have my dealer install or send the whole motor to Zipper's.  So I decided to take the 3.5 hr drive north to visit them and check out their operation.  I met with John K and he was very accommodating, he walked me through his entire operation.  I was impressed by the attention to detail and knowledge of the staff, these guys are really into motors and what makes them go with an emphasis on reliability, that is their specialty.  I am pretty picky and ask a lot of questions and John answered them all to my satisfaction.  I was convinced at that point to let them do the build. 

One thing everyone needs to understand, they are a fairly small operation in that they specialize in parts and performance "kits".  They have limited space and staff to do a "turnkey" job (i.e. drop your bike off and have them do all the work).  They will do it, but it will take time.  Similarly, if you drop off your motor (which is what I did) and have them do the build, they basically have one guy who builds the motors, so that takes time too.  But in my case it is worth the extra wait.  When they are finished, the engine has been heat cycled, ready to install and ride (with appropriate break in procedure of course).

I am doing the whole enchilada, diamond cut heads, cylinders, thermo-coat combustion chamber and piston top and skirt for heat management (may want to consider this option, not expensive), also sent my headers to Jet-Hot to have them coated after Zipper's welded in the O2 bungs.  Also having them back cut my trans. gears and went with their double roller bearing billet trap door to beef up my 5 speed.  Ordered a Rivera Pro clutch to put it all on the pavement and of course the Thundermax ECM with AT.  I'm getting excited just talking about it!!!

Letting Zipper's do the work is the best way to go.  JMHO.

 

[Ironhorse]

Letting Zipper's do the work is the best way to go.

That's kinda what I'm thinking too. I LOVE their auto-tune, so I guess their motors would be good too.
I figured they were a small time "mom and pop" operation because they take so darn long to do everything from the easy stuff like answering e-mail and phone calls, to the hard stuff like making ECMs. What is the "skirt" option, and how does it help with heat?

Mark

[SneakyPete]

That's kinda what I'm thinking too. I LOVE their auto-tune, so I guess their motors would be good too.
I figured they were a small time "mom and pop" operation because they take so darn long to do everything from the easy stuff like answering e-mail and phone calls, to the hard stuff like making ECMs. What is the "skirt" option, and how does it help with heat?

Mark

Mark,

The thermal coating is applied to surfaces subject to combustion temps.  The coating minimizes transfer of heat in the engine so it runs cooler which is important particularly on these big motors.  Also the cooler the motor runs the better the performance.  I had my pipes coated as well which makes the exhaust gas flow better.  That's the theory, we shall see!

[Ironhorse]

Mark,

The thermal coating is applied to surfaces subject to combustion temps. 

Pete,

So if I read that correctly, that would include the inside of the heads, ports, cylinders, and piston tops?
Or am I way out of line here?

I've had pipes JetHot coated and that does make a big difference.

Mark

[DCFIREMANN]

They do the CC Chamber and the tops of the Pistons and the Exhaust Ports. I had it done on Punkin per the advice of Danny and Kitz. I wasn't too keen on the idea at first but after driving the bike a few hundred miles I could tell the difference when I parked it. Much cooler. I couldn't be happier with the decision

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[SneakyPete]

Mark,

Dawg has it right, sorry for not being clear.  The good news it works and money well spent.

[Ironhorse]

Thanks guys,

That's what I thought. My AMS Heads have a thermal coating on the exhaust ports, and I can tell the difference too.

Mark