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[Jims79FLH]

Has anyone had trouble with the Screaming Eagle 10.5 Pistons that come in the stage3 kit? The dealer is stating that they are drop in no machining required.

Thanks

[Unbalanced]

They are drop in, but it would be nice to know what your piston to wall is and whether your cylinders are out of round before you pay for a complete top end rebuild.   Are you sticking with .040 or .045 headgaskets or going to .030 to maximize your purchase and upgrade?     inspect the old pistons once out to see where on them and check out the heads too while they are off ... how many miles?   If your adding more compression why not upgrade to 117 and get warranty only paying a little more for jugs?   just thinking out loud.

This is the issue with part changers vs. motor builders.   Are you changing cams?   have they done a leak down to see if there were issues before you just swap out the pistons?   Whats your cranking compression today cold?   All good information to have prior to doing this rebuild.

[grc]

Has anyone had trouble with the Screaming Eagle 10.5 Pistons that come in the stage3 kit? The dealer is stating that they are drop in no machining required.

Thanks

Harley has been claiming that sort of thing for years, but no one should just take parts out of a box and slap them into the engine without checking critical dimensions first.  Harley is not exactly the poster boy for precision and accuracy.  Ask the guys with the .012" "normal" crankshaft runout, or the tapered cylinders, piston slap, etc.

What kind of a problem are you encountering with the pistons?

Jerry

[Jims79FLH]

I have a 2015 RGU CVO that I purchased a couple of weeks ago. It currently has 2,000 miles, I am going to do cams lifters Fuel Moto E serious exhaust Power Vision and think for the extra $300 the bump in compression will help it along the way. Of course I would have the piston clearances checked before completing the build. I would love to do the 117 but piston and cylinder kit is $1200 plus a new throttle body at $500 and a new air cleaner at $300 kind of blows the budget friendly build idea out of the water...

[grc]

The stage III kit comes with the SE259 cams, so the higher compression is appropriate.  I assume when you said the stage III kit you were talking about the one below (click on it to enlarge):

Jerry

[FlaHeatWave]

Yea, they're supposed to drop in, the Pistons in my SE Stage III Kit were to big, requiring significant honing...

[Unbalanced]

Sorry deleted my last post instead of editing it (small phone screen and big hands).   Are you buying the full stage 3 kit or just looking to add the pistons from it?   If you are just adding the pistons and not the kit, i would have major concerns about the cranking compression, heat and pinging.   If going with the stage3 kit, is your riding style 3200 rpm up?   This cam is a late bloomer without more cubes and compression and might be better served with an alternative cam vs. the 259e this kit as it comes off the shelf.

[Pan1]

Had a stage 3 in a 2010 CVO Ultra. The 259 cam worked very well from about 2,500 rpm except for 6th gear which needed more RPM. Bike also had a fair amount of Dyno tune time .  I really liked the cam and if I go with the 117 on my new bike, I will use this cam again.

[Jims79FLH]

So a complete list of new parts I have and plan on using. Motor has 2,200 miles

GMR 577 cams
S&S lifters
S&S push rods
Fuel Moto 2into1 E series exhaust
K&N replacement air filter
Power Vision

[Unbalanced]

Surprised not a 58mm on that list with 5.39 injectors and cometic .030 headgaskets

[Jims79FLH]

Surprised not a 58mm on that list with 5.39 injectors and cometic .030 headgaskets

Not Yet🤔

[CVODON]

This posting suprises me, Do you really think any piston would be taken out of the box, installed on the rod and installed without checking the dia of the piston and measuring the cylinder for wear and then honing with hopefully plates, to return/assure a round hole & crosshatch (I do not mean a drill mounted thorn bush, a real Sunnen rigid hone or similiar) prior to measuring/cutting the ring end gap. If this was not the original intention, then get some help. IMHO.

[Jims79FLH]

This posting suprises me, Do you really think any piston would be taken out of the box, installed on the rod and installed without checking the dia of the piston and measuring the cylinder for wear and then honing with hopefully plates, to return/assure a round hole & crosshatch (I do not mean a drill mounted thorn bush, a real Sunnen rigid hone or similiar) prior to measuring/cutting the ring end gap. If this was not the original intention, then get some help. IMHO.

Hints the apprehension and questions  versus jumping in blind. I had planned of having them checked for clearances but wasn't sure if anyone has had a problem and if it would be worth it to buy the .10 over pistons and have the barrels bored to match. My Indy that will check them is out of town and I am chomping at the bit to get them ordered. Damn inpatients

[Unbalanced]

I would go 10 over and get a clean bore to start vs. hoping they worked.   

[HD Street Performance]

A lot of dealers have no access locally for bore and honing properly done therefore sell ball hone solutions. Not acceptable. Plus when you put a stock cylinder in plates and measure there may be no wear but there will be distortion.  They won't be round and straight and based on my experience to get them to clean you now have a sloppy piston fit.

[grc]

A lot of dealers have no access locally for bore and honing properly done therefore sell ball hone solutions. Not acceptable. Plus when you put a stock cylinder in plates and measure there may be no wear but there will be distortion.  They won't be round and straight and based on my experience to get them to clean you now have a sloppy piston fit.

EXACTLY!  One of the reasons some people have had issues over the years with the various big bore kits Harley sold and still sells is that most dealerships didn't have the equipment to accurately measure, bore, hone, and whatever else might be required, and they just took Harley at it's word that the parts were accurate and they could just install them right out of the box.  I called BS on that more than a decade ago, and still call BS on it.  The reality is that while some never had a problem, others had oil consumption and premature wear issues.  It was determined by the luck of the draw.  If I'm spending my money on something like this, I don't want to depend on Lady Luck for a good outcome.

Jerry

[Ridgerunr]

I had a so called pro in Iowa bore cylinders, supplied "custom pistons", and I would have done better at the local lawnmower shop. On the other hand, 2 sets of SE cylinders/pistons ordered from the catalog, 1 3.875" and 1 4.060" ran great, no noise, no oil consumption.  My experience with hot rodding Pans, Shovels, Evo's , and now TC's is like rolling dice, some times it's snake eye's, other times a winner. One thing for sure is "stock" is waaay less fun.

[rockytop117]

I had a so called pro in Iowa bore cylinders, supplied "custom pistons", and I would have done better at the local lawnmower shop. On the other hand, 2 sets of SE cylinders/pistons ordered from the catalog, 1 3.875" and 1 4.060" ran great, no noise, no oil consumption.  My experience with hot rodding Pans, Shovels, Evo's , and now TC's is like rolling dice, some times it's snake eye's, other times a winner. One thing for sure is "stock" is waaay less fun.

I've been in that same boat with a "mtn motor" ... clearance varied depending upon who you spoke with!
 

[ultraswede]

My old bike bored to 107 was an oil drinker, supplied by a known-name shop on these forums.

My take is that HD has WAY better quality control than the Indy community.

[Ridgerunr]

I've been in that same boat with a "mtn motor" ... clearance varied depending upon who you spoke with!

Mine were hyper fubar'd, custom pistons my arse. The only thing custom was the price.

"My old bike bored to 107 was an oil drinker"
I hear you Swede, all the Evo, and TC factory cast pistons I've had provided excellent sealing.

[prodrag1320]

Any indy with the proper boring & honing equipment will easily out do HD "drop in"parts.we have no problems here,street or race stuff

[ultraswede]

I don't question the piston fit or the cylinder dimensions from my supplier, but what happened to those dimensions after some miles is a different thing. (distorted cylinder?)
It might have been the valve guide seals as well, sold the bike before I had the chance to tear it down and look.

In any case, my problem was not due to "sloppy" tolerances from HD.........

[Ridgerunr]

Any indy with the proper boring & honing equipment will easily out do HD "drop in"parts.we have no problems here,street or race stuff

I agree, finding a good one such as yourself is critical.

[DCFIREMANN]

EXACTLY!  One of the reasons some people have had issues over the years with the various big bore kits Harley sold and still sells is that most dealerships didn't have the equipment to accurately measure, bore, hone, and whatever else might be required, and they just took Harley at it's word that the parts were accurate and they could just install them right out of the box.  I called BS on that more than a decade ago, and still call BS on it.  The reality is that while some never had a problem, others had oil consumption and premature wear issues.  It was determined by the luck of the draw.  If I'm spending my money on something like this, I don't want to depend on Lady Luck for a good outcome.

Jerry

X2.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[Elias1974]

  I've just put on my 2014 CVO Breakout the Stage III Kit (10.5:1 Pistons with 259e cams).
Really like this kit, even though i've some questions unsolved.

There is no precise map for my bike with stage 3 combination. the best is map A617SGM205.

This map runs very well, i think, but i don't know if i have to change advance timing for high compression pistons.

MOCO, as ever, didn't support at all.

[rigidthumper]

I've just put on my 2014 CVO Breakout the Stage III Kit (10.5:1 Pistons with 259e cams).
Really like this kit, even though i've some questions unsolved.

There is no precise map for my bike with stage 3 combination. the best is map A617SGM205.

This map runs very well, i think, but i don't know if i have to change advance timing for high compression pistons.

MOCO, as ever, didn't support at all.

I would prolly start with 617SHD202 and look at the data.

[Hilly13]

I would prolly start with 617SHD202 and look at the data.

I would take your advice and it's nice to see you on here, hope you stick around 👍

[Fullsac Performance]

If your buying pistons why not go 113"? .060 over in the stock barrel. The cost of the parts is the same.
Extra 150.00 for machine work. 3 extra cubes, more compression, straight bore. More than few site vendors who can competently provide this. What's not to like? This was the hottest thing going before the 117 kit came out.

SG

[ultraswede]

[quoteWhat's not to like?][/quote]

The thin cylinder liner, in stock alloy.

The bang for the buck with the 117 HD kit can not be beaten, simple as that.
$2400 retail at 10.6 comp.

[Fullsac Performance]

[quoteWhat's not to like?]

The thin cylinder liner, in stock alloy.

The bang for the buck with the 117 HD kit can not be beaten, simple as that.
$2400 retail at 10.6 comp.

How thick do you think a drop in 117 is?? Lol

[FLSTFI Dave]

[quoteWhat's not to like?]

The thin cylinder liner, in stock alloy.

The bang for the buck with the 117 HD kit can not be beaten, simple as that.
$2400 retail at 10.6 comp.

I'm 99% positive the Harley drop in 117 Kit is not 10.6 comp.  That is why I did not look at the kit, compression is to low, its only 9.9 to 1.  You could bring it up a little with a thinner gasket than the kit uses, but still well under 10.6 to 1.

http://www.harley-davidson.com/store/screamin-eagle-bolt-on-cvo-117--street-performance-kit

Includes 4.125" Bolt-On Cylinders, Forged 9.9:1 Compression Pistons & Rings, 58mm Throttle Body, High Flow Fuel Injectors, SE-259E Cams, Perfect-Fit Pushrods, High-Capacity Roller Tappets, Inner Cam Bearing, Top End & Cam Cover Gasket, EO Emissions Label

[ultraswede]

How thick do you think a drop in 117 is?? Lol

It has a proper cylinder liner thickness, made of tool steel, hence my comment on stock alloy in a bored 110 to 113.
(or a 96 to 107 for that matter)

The spigot is thin on the 117, but Im talking about the liner, distorting from heat.

I have no confidence in the aftermarket 107 and 113 bore jobs.

For me the proof is in the fact the there are no reports of any failures here or on techtalk with bolt in 110 or 117.
That will be the route Im going, unless I chose a Revperf 113 cylinder.

There are a few reports on oil drinking 107 and 113 on techtalk and one with pic on a ruined 113 cyl.
My 107 became an oil burner after some miles, the whole kit bought in the US from a reputable supplier.

[ultraswede]

I'm 99% positive the Harley drop in 117 Kit is not 10.6 comp.  That is why I did not look at the kit, compression is to low, its only 9.9 to 1.  You could bring it up a little with a thinner gasket than the kit uses, but still well under 10.6 to 1.

http://www.harley-davidson.com/store/screamin-eagle-bolt-on-cvo-117--street-performance-kit

You are correct Sir.

However, in my statement I said $2400 retail.
That include this 10.7 piston:
http://www.suburbanharley.com/Wisconsin-Harley-Davidson-Service-Performance-Center--pistons
at $416.95

The kit itself is around $2000

[Fullsac Performance]

It has a proper cylinder liner thickness, made of tool steel, hence my comment on stock alloy in a bored 110 to 113.
(or a 96 to 107 for that matter)

The spigot is thin on the 117, but Im talking about the liner, distorting from heat.

I have no confidence in the aftermarket 107 and 113 bore jobs.

For me the proof is in the fact the there are no reports of any failures here or on techtalk with bolt in 110 or 117.
That will be the route Im going, unless I chose a Revperf 113 cylinder.

There are a few reports on oil drinking 107 and 113 on techtalk and one with pic on a ruined 113 cyl.
My 107 became an oil burner after some miles, the whole kit bought in the US from a reputable supplier.

Its absolutely possible to botch any build through a number of ways and end up with an oil burner.
Just this year I seen a 117 and a 124 build done by reputable shops, both pushed out the door for an
"easy 500 mile break in" with fuel maps so lean they had no chance of making it to 50 miles with out overheating and damaging the ring seal. Luckily both owners after one trip around the block contacted me with concerns over the driveability issues they had. Both bikes went straight in to my dyno room for AFR evaluation and the needed adjustments before the ring seal was ruined by an "easy break in".
My personal experience has not seen any issues with 98", 107", 113 or 117 barrel thickness when I assembled and tuned them. Steve@GMR has done a high number of 113s in house and kits sent out.
Maybe we can get him to comment on the success rate of the 113s he assembled in house, broke in and tuned on the dyno, VS any issues that arose from kits sent out. If there were any?

Steve@fullsac.com

[Mr D]

Here's an example of a "drop in" 117 @ 10.6 gettin it done 

[FLSTFI Dave]

You are correct Sir.

However, in my statement I said $2400 retail.
That include this 10.7 piston:
http://www.suburbanharley.com/Wisconsin-Harley-Davidson-Service-Performance-Center--pistons
at $416.95

The kit itself is around $2000

But that is one Harley shops kit, not the Kit in the P&A catalog.  It's a nice set up and yields much better results than the P&A kit.  However if you do not have a tuner such as a TTS or SE race tuner you can add a few hundred more dollars.

[ultraswede]

But that is one Harley shops kit, not the Kit in the P&A catalog.  It's a nice set up and yields much better results than the P&A kit.  However if you do not have a tuner such as a TTS or SE race tuner you can add a few hundred more dollars.

I'm talking about the 10.7 piston for the PA kit, not a dealer 117 set up.
The only thing that's not HD/PA would be the pistons, the rest of kit 92500053 is used in my example.
As for the cost of a tuner, that is a prerequisite even for a stage 1.

Just pointing out possibilities.