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[Miss Susan]

Saw this on several news organizations today.

http://www.wisn.com/news/Harley-Davidson-motorcycles-investigated-for-brake-failure/40418318

Miss Susan

[Unbalanced]

Miss Susan,

You should make sure Hub reads this article. Well this part anyway  

The agency said it is possible that some riders who experienced brake failure did not change the motorcycle's brake fluid every two years as recommended by Harley-Davidson.   

[OBB]

Nothing wrong with the brakes...... The F.B.I. looked into it 

[SHRADER]

LOL

[110tHunDer]

Nothing wrong with the brakes...... The F.B.I. looked into it 

Good one, Mike!

[grc]

I want the NHTSA and Harley-Davidson to determine why Harley's brake systems must have the fluid changed every two years, but no such requirement exists in the auto business.  Are they saying that Harley's system is so inferior that moisture and contaminants destroy the fluid in two years?  The same fluid used in other motorcycles and cars and trucks?  Hmmmmm.

Most vehicles of all types rarely have the brake fluid changed unless the system is opened up for major repairs.  I'm not saying that is the best way to do things, I'm just relating what I've seen over many years in the business.  I'm willing to bet there are many millions of such vehicles on our roads today, with way more than two years on the brake fluid, and yet we don't hear about significant numbers of brake systems failing.  Amazing!

Harley obviously believes that no one remembers all the failures and screw-ups when they launched ABS in 2008.  The same kinds of failures claimed in the complaints as a matter of fact.  And let's not forget the other major safety issue they created that same year with ETC, or throttle-by-wire.  They managed to skate responsibility and recalls for both those systems, but that doesn't mean everyone has forgotten all about them.  I seem to remember wondering out loud on this forum why it was that Harley couldn't take old technology from the auto and motorcycle industries and apply it to their bikes without major problems.  It's pretty bad when someone else has done all the inventing and development for you and you still can't make your version right the first time.

Jerry

[OBB]

I want the NHTSA and Harley-Davidson to determine why Harley's brake systems must have the fluid changed every two years, but no such requirement exists in the auto business.  Are they saying that Harley's system is so inferior that moisture and contaminants destroy the fluid in two years?  The same fluid used in other motorcycles and cars and trucks?  Hmmmmm.

Most vehicles of all types rarely have the brake fluid changed unless the system is opened up for major repairs.  I'm not saying that is the best way to do things, I'm just relating what I've seen over many years in the business.  I'm willing to bet there are many millions of such vehicles on our roads today, with way more than two years on the brake fluid, and yet we don't hear about significant numbers of brake systems failing.  Amazing!

Harley obviously believes that no one remembers all the failures and screw-ups when they launched ABS in 2008.  The same kinds of failures claimed in the complaints as a matter of fact.  And let's not forget the other major safety issue they created that same year with ETC, or throttle-by-wire.  They managed to skate responsibility and recalls for both those systems, but that doesn't mean everyone has forgotten all about them.  I seem to remember wondering out loud on this forum why it was that Harley couldn't take old technology from the auto and motorcycle industries and apply it to their bikes without major problems.  It's pretty bad when someone else has done all the inventing and development for you and you still can't make your version right the first time.

Jerry

As for part of your statement (and I agree with you), the bikes mentioned are the 2008 - 2011 model years. The same ones you speak of with MoCo's first quest into ABS.


About other vehicles never need the fluid flushed. I have no idea what other bike manufacturers recommendations are so I'll leave that alone. The best guess why I think MoCo recommends it is due to the heat the lines are subject to being so close to the engine and exhaust components. I've changed or fixed enough brake lines on cars over the years and I honestly can't remember one of them being subject to the heat that the ones on the bikes are. Fluid gets hot, it boils, creates condensation. I know more than a few auto/truck mechanics that also say a full brake fluid flush every XX number of miles is a good thing depending on your driving conditions. Just my thoughts on it.

[Ironhorse]

I might be wrong, but I thought it had to do with the brake lines routed near the exhaust pipe causing the fluid to heat and loose hydraulics.

[HUBBARD]

Nothing wrong with the brakes...... The F.B.I. looked into it 

That's encouraging.  Later--HUBBARD   

[dayne66]

The Porsche Club required brakes to be flushed with-in 30 days of competing in any driving competition. Just sayin'...

[grc]

Don't forget that failures were occurring on brand new bikes that were less than two years old back in 2008 and 2009.  So does that mean Harley filled the brakes with old used fluid at the factory?  Or does that mean their system was flawed?  We all know the answer, whether some want to admit it or not.

Jerry

[Dan_Lockwood]

Things have changed a bit on cars/trucks over the years, but as a service manager at a Chevy/Pontiac dealership for 15 years, I remember many master cylinders and coils of brake lines within inches of the cast iron exhaust manifolds.  We never had any issues with overheating lines or fluid.  And sometimes those manifolds were close to cherry red and they hold the heat a lot more than just thin wall exhaust tubing.

[grc]

Things have changed a bit on cars/trucks over the years, but as a service manager at a Chevy/Pontiac dealership for 15 years, I remember many master cylinders and coils of brake lines within inches of the cast iron exhaust manifolds.  We never had any issues with overheating lines or fluid.  And sometimes those manifolds were close to cherry red and they hold the heat a lot more than just thin wall exhaust tubing.

Exactly Dan.  If folks would care to look under the hood of a late model car (assuming they can see anything since most engine compartments these days are crammed so full you can't see the ground), they would find the brake lines and the ABS pump and control unit sitting in close proximity to hot exhaust and engine parts, and the entire underhood area is really hot.  Harley doesn't have the market cornered on hot engines or brake lines.  And changing brake fluid on a two year schedule is something I've never seen  done on cars and trucks.  I still remember asking a local shop to change the brake fluid when I had Momma's SUV in to have the coolant and power steering fluids changed several years back.  I got strange looks from the two guys at the counter, and questioned as to why I would want such a thing.  Then a couple years ago I had a different shop change rotors and pads on another vehicle, and I got the same question when I added that I'd like the system flushed and refilled.  It wasn't part of their normal routine or even something they tried to sell.  Maybe it should be.  Most cars and trucks on the road are probably running the same brake fluid the factory installed, no matter how long ago that was.  And  they aren't suffering a rash of brake failures because that old fluid supposedly caused the valves in the ABS unit to seize up.  If they were, you may rest assured there would have been recalls up the wazoo.  My earlier post wasn't about whether it's a good idea to change fluid occasionally, it was about the fact that not changing it every two years is a bogus excuse Harley wants to use to cover their azzes for their failure to address the issues with the system back in '08 and'09.

Jerry

[HUBBARD]

Miss Susan,

You should make sure Hub reads this article. Well this part anyway  

The agency said it is possible that some riders who experienced brake failure did not change the motorcycle's brake fluid every two years as recommended by Harley-Davidson.   

You just got to dig up bones, don't you?!  You're an a$$hole, Harry, of the first order.  I woulda' been in worse shape if Brad hadn't helped me out.  Down on the gravels bleedin' brakes on these ol' worn out knees wudn't no fun.  I did have Jody check the fluid in Ol' Maybelle this past February though, and she's good.  I never heard of such chit in my life.  I've been owning and ridin' Harleys since 1967, which including Maybelle, is 14 Harleys, and I never changed, or heard about changing, brake fluid in none of 'em.  Won't happen again, though.  It is what it is.  Later--HUBBARD 

[SneakyPete]

You just got to dig up bones, don't you?!  You're an a$$hole, Harry, of the first order.  I woulda' been in worse shape if Brad hadn't helped me out.  Down on the gravels bleedin' brakes on these ol' worn out knees wudn't no fun.  I did have Jody check the fluid in Ol' Maybelle this past February though, and she's good.  I never heard of such chit in my life.  I've been owning and ridin' Harleys since 1967, which including Maybelle, is 14 Harleys, and I never changed, or heard about changing, brake fluid in none of 'em.  Won't happen again, though.  It is what it is.  Later--HUBBARD

Haha, forgot about this one!  Actually as I recall it, Brad helped you the second time