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[FLSTFI Dave]

The Porsche Club required brakes to be flushed with-in 30 days of competing in any driving competition. Just sayin'...

14 Corvette Stingray manual states to change brake fluid after a Track Day.

[HUBBARD]

Haha, forgot about this one!  Actually as I recall it, Brad helped you the second time

No chance of that, with Harry's instigating mouth around.  He's got more mouth than a Bull is chitty, 6 yds. up his a$$!  There endeth the lesson.  Later--HUBBARD

[Unbalanced]

Hub don't be hating just because some of us don't have CRS or wish they did to avoid these juicy tidbits being revisited.

[grc]

The Porsche Club required brakes to be flushed with-in 30 days of competing in any driving competition. Just sayin'...

14 Corvette Stingray manual states to change brake fluid after a Track Day.

     The Porsche Club and the Stingray manual instructions concerning racing, as well as the SCCA back in the day, had many requirements that had absolutely nothing to do with street driven vehicles.  Most of those requirements came from the early days when the stuff sold for the street wasn't close to the standards met by todays regular production vehicles. 

Just to make sure my memory hadn't failed again, I dug through the maintenance requirements for Momma's CUV to see what it has to say about brake fluid.  And in at least this one instance my memory was perfect; there is no periodic requirement or even recommendation about changing brake fluid.  She is supposed to change the coolant every six years though.  What I remember over the years is that we recommended a full system flush and new fluid after the system had been opened up for major repairs.  That is still a good recommendation.  But if you go to most shops just to have pads and rotors changed, they won't change fluid unless you insist on it.

Regardless, there is nothing unique about a Harley brake system that should require replacing brake fluid every two years.  And it has nothing to do with the ABS, since they had that same requirement in the maintenance charts a long time before they even dreamed of adding ABS to their bikes.  Like many things from Milwaukee, it probably has it's roots in ancient history and has never been updated for modern times and materials.  It was only in the past few years they finally dropped the requirement to change the trans lube at every service interval, even though there was never a valid reason to do so.  How often does your car or truck require gear lubes to be changed? 

Jerry

[110tHunDer]

Yeah, I didn't get the reference to tracked sports cars, either.

[skratch]

About other vehicles never need the fluid flushed. I have no idea what other bike manufacturers recommendations are so I'll leave that alone.

just for chits and giggles, I looked up the maintenance chart for the 2016 indian chief/chieftan.  they recommend the brake fluid be flushed every 10,000 miles or 2 years.

[JCZ]

From Investopedia..........   http://www.investopedia.com/stock-analysis/071116/another-big-recall-ahead-harleydavidson-hog-pii.aspx?partner=YahooSA&yptr=yahoo


Is Another Big Recall Ahead for Harley-Davidson? By Investopedia | July 11, 2016 — 2:25 PM EDT
     
 
Not that any big recall is opportune for the company involved, but an investigation by the National Highway Transportation Safety Authority into some 430,000 motorcycles comes at a particularly bad time for Harley-Davidson (NYSE: HOG). The big bike maker is trying to pull itself out of a multi-year sales slide, and potential brake failure problems for bikes produced between 2008 and 2011 will hardly instill consumer confidence.

Harley-Davidson is already coming off two straight years of having to recall large numbers of motorcycles; an even larger one would damage its credibility with riders.

The NHTSA says it received 43 complaints regarding Harley's anti-lock braking system, which saw the front or rear brakes, or both, completely fail after the brake fluid absorbed moisture from the surrounding environment. While most of the problems are attributed to owner error -- Harley tells owners the brake fluid must be replaced every two years, a service that many apparently ignored -- the safety agency still found the complete failure of the braking system cause for concern. The motorcycle company says it's aware of the investigation and is cooperating.

Last year, Harley-Davidson initiated two recalls for a total of 55,000 bikes for problems with rear reflectors and the clutch. In 2014, it recalled 127,000 bikes for a different clutch issue and 66,000 to fix a problem with the front brakes.

Vehicle recalls are common; even rival Polaris Industries is facing several extensive recalls, though they are for its popular off-road RZR ATVs, not its motorcycles. Polaris' successful resurrection of the Indian Motorcycle marque has cut sharply into Harley's market share, though Harley still accounts for half of the big-bike market.

There was a time when it was said that Harley-Davidsons owners needed to buy two bikes -- one to ride and another for parts. (Another common joke from that period was that "90% of all Harley's are still on the road; the other 10% actually made it back home.") The big bike king has done a lot to erase those memories of poor quality in the ensuing years, but with another large recall potentially just down the road, Harley may find those jokes starting to make the rounds again, at it a particularly inopportune time.

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Read more: Is Another Big Recall Ahead for Harley-Davidson? | Investopedia http://www.investopedia.com/stock-analysis/071116/another-big-recall-ahead-harleydavidson-hog-pii.aspx#ixzz4EFaXTgVL
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[grc]

Hmmmm.  So after thinking all these years that Harley's brake system was a sealed system just like the one on all those cars and trucks, we find that a Harley system will just suck moisture right out of the environment like a big sponge.  Who knew?

"The NHTSA says it received 43 complaints regarding Harley's anti-lock braking system, which saw the front or rear brakes, or both, completely fail after the brake fluid absorbed moisture from the surrounding environment"

Perhaps they should go back to rod activated rear brakes, so when the fronts fail you can still stop.

Jerry

[TNCarters]

Question for the brake experts on here that seems related.  Recently after some fairly spirited mountain roads one of the CVO Ultras in our group experienced the rear brakes getting weak.  The bike eventually got better after slowing down and getting out of the mountains. Is this a case that would probably be advisable to flush the rear system?  I assume the pads or fluid in the rear caliper got hot.

[Twolanerider]

Hmmmm.  So after thinking all these years that Harley's brake system was a sealed system just like the one on all those cars and trucks, we find that a Harley system will just suck moisture right out of the environment like a big sponge.  Who knew?

"The NHTSA says it received 43 complaints regarding Harley's anti-lock braking system, which saw the front or rear brakes, or both, completely fail after the brake fluid absorbed moisture from the surrounding environment"

Perhaps they should go back to rod activated rear brakes, so when the fronts fail you can still stop.

Jerry

Jerry, perhaps their solution will be a retrofit to eliminate all the potentially problematic plumbing wherein moisture might intrude.  Just a permanently sealed remote pump and receiver at each wheel triggered by a fly-by-wire signal initiated at each brake pedal.  After all, Harley did such a smashing job of rolling out their electronic throttle what could go wrong?

[Twolanerider]

Question for the brake experts on here that seems related.  Recently after some fairly spirited mountain roads one of the CVO Ultras in our group experienced the rear brakes getting weak.  The bike eventually got better after slowing down and getting out of the mountains. Is this a case that would probably be advisable to flush the rear system?  I assume the pads or fluid in the rear caliper got hot.

It's brakes, on a motorcycle.  If there's any doubt in your mind just do it.   

[4fun]

Question for the brake experts on here that seems related.  Recently after some fairly spirited mountain roads one of the CVO Ultras in our group experienced the rear brakes getting weak.  The bike eventually got better after slowing down and getting out of the mountains. Is this a case that would probably be advisable to flush the rear system?  I assume the pads or fluid in the rear caliper got hot.

Could be the overuse of the rear brake and not enough front brake, I know a few riders that swear that using just the rear brake is better when at speed, of course slow speed maneuvers rear brake is a different story.

[Ironhorse]

Could be the overuse of the rear brake and not enough front brake, I know a few riders that swear that using just the rear brake is better.

Please modify that. Solo rear brake is better for slow speed maneuvering in tight quarters. BOTH brakes should be used at speed.

[4fun]

Please modify that. Solo rear brake is better for slow speed maneuvering in tight quarters. BOTH brakes should be used at speed.

Thanks, I corrected my post, you of course are right. I wasn't thinking low speed maneuvers when I posted.

[grc]

Question for the brake experts on here that seems related.  Recently after some fairly spirited mountain roads one of the CVO Ultras in our group experienced the rear brakes getting weak.  The bike eventually got better after slowing down and getting out of the mountains. Is this a case that would probably be advisable to flush the rear system?  I assume the pads or fluid in the rear caliper got hot.

Both the pads and the fluid can cause brake fade.  If the fluid gets hot enough to boil, that's not good.  If that fluid has a significant amount of moisture in it, it will boil at a lower temperature.  As for the pads, if they get hot enough they can outgas, causing a thin boundary layer between the rotor and pad that also reduces friction and stopping power.  A further complication many don't consider is the fact that the front brakes are out in clean air, whereas the rear brake sits shielded behind a hot engine and exhaust, various bits of bodywork, and the riders legs.

I would suggest, as others have, that the problem was the rider overused the rear brake and perhaps even kept his foot on the pedal most of the time.  If it would make him feel better, then yes go ahead and flush the fluid and replace it with the highest boiling point DOT 4 fluid he can find. There is a wide variance in boiling point by brand and price point, with racing fluid being very pricey indeed.  And if he continues to abuse the rear brake, it will probably happen again anyway.

JMHO - Jerry