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[kiro]

Hi guys! Not sure why Cam is being so cryptic about all this - yes, it's my bike & your responses are truly appreciated... Go to the gym for a few hours and all kinds of things happen!

I didn't check the oil level during the WV run, but needed service - rear tire and sticker, which I can't do myself, so carried 4 quarts of Red Line and a filter to have them change it where I'm short on time before heading west. Dropped the bike off Wednesday late for a Thursday appointment. Didn't hear anything from them so called late afternoon to find out if it was done. No - not done, but the service guy on the phone indicated it, 'barely had two quarts of oil in it when he drained it', like the guy was pissed off about this or or something. They finished yesterday and I went and picked it up. I wasn't particularly happy about how all this was handled and asked the head service writer what the deal on the oil was. He said a note on the sheet indicated it was around a quart low - a different story than the day before. The truth of the matter was they didn't know for sure, but apparently 3.5/4 quarts didn't drain out on the oil change. I've never added a drop between oil changes since I've owned it, now over 13k miles, and it was good when checked previous to departure. So, I can't say for sure what the deal is, but with a 5/6,000 mile trip pending I'll be monitoring it to see what happens and will bring some Red Line along just in case. The comment the service writer made was all Harley's' use a 'quart for every 1,000 miles'. He also said H-D's guideline is a 'quart for every 800 miles'. Then everybody had a general discussion about how much oil they carry along on trips like it was a mark of distinction or something. So - most of this is conjecture. If they make a statement about how little oil was drained out, they should indicate the finding by measure, not speculation. I'll know for certain when I get back from Sturgis - if it is using oil I'll find an Indy and get it checked while my ESP is still in force. I did tell the service manager that my bike ran so well during the 2850 miles back and forth to WV that I was going to always run it two quarts low - it appears to help <g>.

[skratch]

In this particular case I assume the owner of the bike is dealing with an ESP, since the factory warranty would be long gone on a 2013 bike.  If he doesn't already know this, let him know he doesn't have to get ESP work done at that or any other dealership.  Many independent shops are also able to perform ESP repairs, and he can probably get a list of all the shops in his area that are authorized to perform such work by calling his ESP administrator (probably CNA).  Not all shops automatically blow people off like many Harley shops do.  Find a shop that will work with the customer to convince the ESP folks to fix the bike.  No matter what Harley says, one quart per thousand miles IS NOT normal or acceptable these days.

Jerry

it's also important to note that in the esp contract, in section 6 - non covered conditions, item number 8:  any oil consumption or loss of compression or cylinder wear (used motorcycles only). 

so if you aren't the original owner, you've gotta make sure that you word your concern in such a manner that it doesn't get caught by this stipulation.

[FlaHeatWave]

My '09, my Bud's 124 Crate Motor, and my other Bud's stock 103s all seek their own oil level, middle of the "Xs" on the dipstick, stock, StageIII, 117", it doesn't matter... If I put in 4qts at oil change and stroll on the Big Road, it would use oil until it found its happy spot in the middle of the dipstick. If I put in 3qts or so, the oil level on the dipstick remains in the same spot until changed at 3k-3.5k miles later... So we just put in 3qts at an oil change

Kiro, How many miles are you going between changes?

How often do you check your oil level?

'Recommend that you check oil level at this change to establish a benchmark, and keep an eye on it , every other fill-up to get a feel for usage... 

[kiro]

Kiro, How many miles are you going between changes?

Not too long between new oil/filter FlaHeatWave. In this case it was new fluids in all three holes at winter storage, around 9,500 miles, to 13,017 upon returning from the GTG in WV. Never more than 5,000, but generally less. I check the oil/tire pressure fairly regularly and did so before the GTG and it was down a bit, but fine. However, I didn't check it when I got back because I already had a service appointment scheduled as soon I returned - my inspection sticker was expiring at the end of July. Cambo and I only had ten days after West Virginia ended and the Sturgis ride commenced. You can bet I'll monitor this closely on the longer run to see what goes on.

skratch - I'm the original purchaser and my ESP is good through February 2018. All the same, your comment is valid to remind everyone sometimes it's important on how you present an issue...

[Royalroadie]

Well I have just been down this road with my 2012 SGCVO. I told the dealer my comp was thwacking on hot startup. And I wanted to have it replaced under ESP before it runs out in Aug.  I also mentioned that it was using a quart or more every 1000 miles.  I check my oil before each time I ride. (ANAL). I had always thought the plug where not the color they should be and I had soot in at the end of the pipes. (Reinhart with chrome tips).  I had not pulled the plug lately to chech them.   The bike seemed to run fine plenty of power, but pretty poor MPG, low 30s the last 3000 mile.  Thank god my dealer listened and actually spoke up to me and ESP.  The first thing the tech did was look at the plugs and he thought the were way to dark and had some crud build up on them.  He did a little more digging and came to the conclusion that I had bad rings and or valve guide seals that wher bad or both.  They pulled the heads and jugs and sure enough the heads and Pistons had excessive carbon and indicators that showed both problems.  The dealer worked with ESP to a pleasant solution.  While they where in there I had them drop a set of new S&S lifters and asked for the old ones back.  I just did another post about dodging the bullet on lifter failure.  All in all with my paying for the deductible, steering head adjustment and a set of lifter I was out only $300.  The rest of the work was about $2700.  My ESP PAID FOR ITS SELF FOR SURE.  I just yesterday re-upped my ESP for three more years.  I am lucky that my dealer didn't blow me off and got it taken care of.

[kiro]

It's great to hear something positive in a situation like this Royalroadie. And I read your post about just catching the lifters in time. I wouldn't plan on my dealer doing squat to help me out - I rarely go into the place and they haven't seen my bike since last July when I went in for a sticker until last week. I told them yesterday my comp was banging on start up and got the old, 'they all do that' story. I expected them to at least lie outright and say they'd check it out or something while the bike was there. I reckon every problem you could think to tell them would have the same response. Forum member RayG had an Indy change a wheel bearing for me when the bike was stored at his place over the winter. I suspect this Indy knows his stuff after speaking with him and he can do ESP work. I'll be contacting him when I get back after this trip.

[Royalroadie]

FYI,  on my new ESP it states the deductible is$100 at Indy shops.  My local HD dealer has actually been very good to me.  But they know I have a choice of where I go. I have 4 HD dealers within 25 miles 2 within 10.  I did play them against each other toget a better price on the ESP , This week the last two days of the month.

I feel sorry for those of you who have cr#ppy dealer to work with.

 I also have a good Indy that I trust.  I usually do my own work unless it is warranty, or pull the heads or split the cases.   One of my dealer will mount and balance the tires for $10 if you purchase the tires from them.  Since HD has us over a barrel on tires I just buy them from the dealer.

[Royalroadie]

Just a quick follow up. I now have 450 miles on the bike since the "head and jug job" it has not used any oil and my mileage has gone up 10-15% so far. My service guy said not to baby it but don't flog it either.  He said to get on it and take it to 4-5k rpm every 5-10 miles. For the first 800 miles, then enjoy.  So I have not been light on the throttle but I also have not rung it out yet all the way.  I feel that I just might see 40mpg on this motor when it is fully broken in. Which would be a far cry from the low 30 is was getting.

[cyril]

My 08 Anniversary did this jugs were changed but it wasnt the cure about the same amount too.

[kiro]

Following up  - I rode 5595 miles to Sturgis and back. Haven't taken time to check the oil since returning yesterday, got home in the rain, but checked it before leaving Nemo and it wasn't even down half a quart. The consensus was the stick was indicating where it should be when checked. I carried some oil along and never used it and will change the oil/filter as soon as I get a chance. Not certain what the deal was with the dealer comment,  but my bike isn't using much oil whatsoever...

[SHRADER]

Fantastic news Kirk

[JCZ]

Well that makes it worth riding in the rain.   


Don't ask......don't know if there's any corrolation.....just sayin it could have been a whole lot worse than ridin in the rain.  Could have been a rebuild half way through your trip.  I'm happy for you brother!

[kiro]

'm happy for you brother!

Thanks JC! My scoot is a real trooper riding distance. Love this bike...

[JCZ]

Thanks JC! My scoot is a real trooper riding distance. Love this bike...

I feel the same way about mine, too!

[DanielP]

I am sure the writer meant a quart of all every 1000 miles and one 100 miles!
Unfortunately I did an upgrade to me FLHTCU, which came equipped with a 96 cu.in. engine and in order to get more HP and Torque I did an upgrade using a 103 Stage 3 piston/cam kid. This was done in December of 2015.  On my first trip down to Daytona Beach in March I had to learn the hard way that my brand new 103 is not burning oil.  After approx. 750 miles it needed add 1 quart of oil.  There were other issues which started happening as well, which I will not get into at this time.  As I returned back to Richmond I immediately went to the dealer and they for whatever reason did not take my word regarding the burning of engine oil.  It was decided to replace the current Harley brand synthetic oil with regular 20W50 oil, which by the way I was also told would minimize the very apparently clicking noise generated by the valves.  I was asked to ride the bike for approx. 1000 miles and bring the bike back in order to check the oil level.  Well, I learned that riding the bike shorter distance at a time the oil burning issue did not surface.  At the of July I started my trip out West with the ultimate destination being Sturgis. Well folks, every 750 - 1000 miles I had to add 1 quart of oil.  I stopped at several dealers on the way to Sturgis and each told me that this was a flaw with 103 Engines and that Harley Davidson knew about this problem, but of course, would never admit to it.  One dealer indicated that it was normal for this type of engine to burn oil!  I just find it interesting that I never had this issue with my 1995 Dyna Wide as well as now with my 2010 FLHTCU before making the conversion in order to get more torque and horse power. In Sturgis I met the folks that produce and sell the Synthetic Bel Ray oil.  I decided to do yet another oil change and use Bel Ray's Synthetic 20W50 oil.  After that oil change I drove from Sturgis all the way to Emlenton, PA and eventually back home in Richmond, VA, approx. 2,500 miles.  Guess what, my engine no longer burns oil!!!  I should also add that I did call the Harley Davidson Customer Support line and without going into details, I regret to inform you, they basically don't give a hoot!  The lady I spoke to was quite emphatic in insisting that Harley Davidson has zero issues with 103 Stage 3 Conversion kits.  Case closed and the lady would not even make suggestions as to what he dealer should do.  From this point on, I am stuck with Bel Ray's Synthetic oil which none of the Harley Dealers stock.  The only consolation is that I found a solution to this issue but for future oil changes I will have to purchase the oil in advance and take it to the dealer.