Topic: Why Your Harley Wobbles... (Sharing what I've learned) (Read 11822 times)

TRS300 · « **on:** September 03, 2016, 08:57:41 AM »

Hello everyone, Just about every site I visit, and during many conversations with fellow Harley enthusiasts, I'm pretty convinced that there is a lot of confusion on the subject of why our motorcycles are not as stable as we might expect them to be. I've been researching this for years and done a fair amount of work related to this subject on my own bikes. Making an improvement in the stability of both of my Harleys is one of the most rewarding things I've done to my bikes. So in the spirit of sharing I'm posting a paper on the subject. I hope it helps you understand the issues better and that you be more prepared if you decide to make an improvement on your own ride. I've never really found a laymen's paper on this subject, so I decided to write one. After all, it is a safety issue too... Best Regards. Tim

GregKhougaz · « **Reply #1 on:** September 03, 2016, 09:50:54 AM »

Interesting read. Thank you.

motor1 · « **Reply #2 on:** September 03, 2016, 10:10:39 AM »

Like you I have analyzed "the wobble" for many years, unlike you I could never put together such a well thought out paper. Great job!

Bafiii · « **Reply #3 on:** September 03, 2016, 10:21:16 AM »

Very interesting read.....I would be very interested to read the "fixes" you have done especially on your cvo.
Thank you

n8schmitz · « **Reply #4 on:** September 03, 2016, 10:38:19 AM »

Well written! 2X for the details on the fixes you've done!

2016 CVO Street Glide
Carbon Crystal w/ Phantom Flames
Matched Chopped Tour Pack
Reinhart Slimlines
Fuel Pak FP3
Screamin Eagle Breather
Yaffy 12" Bars and License Plate Frame

TRS300 · « **Reply #5 on:** September 03, 2016, 11:05:32 AM »

Quote from: motor1 on September 03, 2016, 10:10:39 AM

Like you I have analyzed "the wobble" for many years, unlike you I could never put together such a well thought out paper. Great job!

Thanks. Must be a Jersey thing ))) I grew up close to Morristown area.

TRS300 · « **Reply #6 on:** September 03, 2016, 11:16:13 AM »

Quote from: Bafiii on September 03, 2016, 10:21:16 AM

Very interesting read.....I would be very interested to read the "fixes" you have done especially on your cvo.
Thank you

I'm half done on the 2015. I have the rear mounts properly stabalized but I'm still deciding on how I'll do the front. I have a few Ideas... And I like simple solutions. Even with just the rear done I can feel the difference. But with the street glide you got a few things to do... Proper shocks, correct the stance (get the butt off the ground), decient tires and of course, add the stabilizers. It's all important.

I'm Currently overseas at work. I'll be home in a couple weeks and I'll have a chance to get back at it.

The thing about the new bikes is you need to add stabalizers on the front and rear. It's not like the older bikes where you can just stabilize the rear and your done. Cheers!

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Rooster · « **Reply #7 on:** September 03, 2016, 11:32:13 AM »

Good article but how do you explain the fact that regardless of old or new frame, some do and some don't exibit the wobble?

TRS300 · « **Reply #8 on:** September 03, 2016, 11:57:20 AM »

Quote from: Rooster on September 03, 2016, 11:32:13 AM

Good article but how do you explain the fact that regardless of old or new frame, some do and some don't exibit the wobble?

I suspect it has alot to do with rider style. Some folks maybe just do not push it as much as others. On my 2002 RG I did not feel the true oscillating "Wobble" but a few times. Both were on the freeway on long sweeping corner at 60+ MPH. Many of the guys I ride with push it harder than me and they have had it happen more often. The point is the "Wobble" is the worst of the conditions. When I stabilized my 2002 RG I felt the difference immediately and at all speeds. In CA we can cut lanes where you ride the lane divider bumps. And and the freeways in LA are concrete with grooves. My bike used to wander all over the place rinding on that crap. The 2002 was completely more solid after I stabilized the rear of the PTU. Like I said, I did not even know how bad it was until I changed it. My 2002 is rock solid now. In fact, it rides better than my 2015 at all speeds and conditions. I'm actually hoping "alot" that I can get my 2015 to ride anywhere as well as the 2002 rides now. So I cannot speak for everyone. But mechanically I know the mounts flex. And in general the instability is widly known by many folks. So it's certinally not an isolated condition.

It's a good question though. If your not feeling it then your one of the luck ones.

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08glide · « **Reply #9 on:** September 03, 2016, 04:22:14 PM »

I own both, 08sg & 12 cvo ultra. so what did you do to rg to resolve the issue. I'll continue to follow this thread for info on the newer suspensions as well. thanks

Rooster · « **Reply #10 on:** September 03, 2016, 08:29:25 PM »

I guess I have been lucky with my last three as I havent owned the new frame yet. I agree adding the upgrade parts would prolly be a good idea for the POM though. Still great article.

Landshark · « **Reply #11 on:** September 03, 2016, 08:54:28 PM »

Great article. Really gets to the issues of both designs, both good and bad.

HUBBARD · « **Reply #12 on:** September 04, 2016, 11:18:21 PM »

For whatever reason, my laptop won't display your article. Have to wait 'till Tuesday to pull it up on my PC at work to read it. Looking forward to it. My experience with the "wobble", has been limited, in that it always occured in a sweeping curve to the right, at high speed. Scary, a time or two! Went thru all the local opinions as to what to do to fix it, but to no avail. Then, Don Tilley told me the "hi-speed wobble", was somtimes caused by aerodynamics, or the lack thereof. All I know is, at his recommendation, I moved my hi-way pegs up on the Crash-Bar, (no lowers), to where my boot, when resting on the Hi-Way peg, was totally independent of resting on the Floor-Board, and wa-lah, NO MORE WOBBLE! Laugh if you will, but that's a fact. I had some wobble in the same situation, on the CVO Ultra I own now, but attributed it to the tires being cupped. Just put New Elites on it, but don't know if that fixed it yet, as I ain't had the opportunty to strech it out. If it's still there, I'll reposition my HI-Way pegs, and see if that fixes it. I'm bettin' it will, if it's still wobbling. We'll see. JMHO. Later--HUBBARD

MightyTharg · « **Reply #13 on:** September 05, 2016, 08:49:20 AM »

When Norton came up with this idea of rubber mounting the complete engine/gearbox/swinging arm (in the late 60s) their design included vernier adjusters on the front and rear mounts. The bean counters got involved and they down specced to adjustment by shimming. But at least you had the ability to adjust to the optimum - manual said 10 thou but the cops and racers went to 6 thou for a bit more vibration but better handling.
I believe the later 850 Commando models did get the vernier adjusters front and rear and there was a Norvil upgrade for the head steady to make that adjustable in the same way.

Long story short - the clever guys that designed this system originally realised you needed to be able to set the side loading correctly at the factory and then adjust it during regular maintenance over the life of those rubber mounts.

Para Bellum · « **Reply #14 on:** September 05, 2016, 10:00:41 PM »

TRS,
Great illustrations in the paper--really helped with visualization and understanding. Question: Are you developing a solution for the 2009+ bikes that you can market when finished?

TRS300 · « **Reply #15 on:** September 06, 2016, 06:05:04 AM »

Quote from: Para Bellum on September 05, 2016, 10:00:41 PM

TRS,
Great illustrations in the paper--really helped with visualization and understanding. Question: Are you developing a solution for the 2009+ bikes that you can market when finished?

First off, thank you about the paper. It did take a bit of time to put together. I have and do sell things I make for myself (mostly with my Chrysler 300C). But I'm getting more into my working on my Harley again since I picked up the CVO. I like to ride and to fix things like this. I have thought to make the stabilizer I have available to others. I like it better then one's on the market today. But before I go there I'd need to talk to Moderator about what I need to do to sell anything on this site. I do not want to violate any rules. So the answer is "Yes I've thought about it".

The stabilizer I have now fixes the rear mounts on everything from 2001-Persent bikes. And it alone is a positive change especially on the Pre&2008 design. The 2009-Present bikes need a front stabilizer to really complete it, and I'm working on that next. That's why I said it was easier to fix the older bikes (it only has a problem in the rear). I suppose at some point I'll show what I have and see if there is enough interest to make what I've created available to others. It's simple to install, Looks good, works well, and it would not be expensive. I can say that much.

If you Google "TRS300" + "VTCM" you'll find hits on similar type work I've done (but related to my car). The development for my Harleys are sort of the same thing... I sell to share my work with other enthusiasts and maybe cover the development costs. My real job (the one that earns money) is in the oil business, not selling MC stuff.

The article I wrote really does give you enough information to look at any product and conclude if it will work properly to stabilize your MC. That was what I was trying to share... And I do hope it helps others. There are A LOT of products being sold under the banner of adding stability; but if they do not do something to arrest the lateral movements of the PTU with-in the frame they will not work. Also, if they do anything to "Stiffen" the mount you'll not like the result either. The bike might feel great when it's rolling but at a stop light it's going shake badly. The mounts need to move freely so the engine can rock. Read the paper I posted and keep the design rules in mind when evaluating a product.

Probably more than what you asked for but that's the story.

PS: The ideas I have for my CVO are piled up in my brain lol... As odd as it sounds, one of the things I really like about my Harleys are the slight imperfections. It gives me a chance to make it unique & personal. I have a number of things I'm excited to be working on with this new toy. I started another thread on some CAN bus mods I'm hoping to do too. Then there is twin cooling... etc...

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08glide · « **Reply #16 on:** September 06, 2016, 10:04:26 AM »

I'm interested in both, as I have 08sg &12cvo ultra. so keep us posted.

GregKhougaz · « **Reply #17 on:** September 06, 2016, 10:44:51 AM »

Quote from: TRS300 on September 06, 2016, 06:05:04 AM

... But before I go there I'd need to talk to Moderator about what I need to do to sell anything on this site. I do not want to violate any rules. So the answer is "Yes I've thought about it".
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TRS300, Thanks for being mindful of the rules. If you are considering selling a product here, this would be a good place to check: Rules of posting to www.CVOHARLEY.com

FLTRCVO · « **Reply #18 on:** September 07, 2016, 06:46:14 PM »

Quote from: TRS300 on September 03, 2016, 08:57:41 AM

Hello everyone, Just about every site I visit, and during many conversations with fellow Harley enthusiasts, I'm pretty convinced that there is a lot of confusion on the subject of why our motorcycles are not as stable as we might expect them to be. I've been researching this for years and done a fair amount of work related to this subject on my own bikes. Making an improvement in the stability of both of my Harleys is one of the most rewarding things I've done to my bikes. So in the spirit of sharing I'm posting a paper on the subject. I hope it helps you understand the issues better and that you be more prepared if you decide to make an improvement on your own ride. I've never really found a laymen's paper on this subject, so I decided to write one. After all, it is a safety issue too... Best Regards. Tim

I had the Bagger Brace on my 2001 Road Glide great improvement on the handling

TRS300 · « **Reply #19 on:** September 07, 2016, 09:04:51 PM »

Quote from: FLTRCVO on September 07, 2016, 06:46:14 PM

I had the Bagger Brace on my 2001 Road Glide great improvement on the handling

Bagger Brace is a good choice. It will do the job properly. I personally do not like the thought of bolting anything to my oil pan however. I'm sure it's fine, it's just my personal preference not to. In fact, I'd prefer not to tie off to any part of the transmission or primary via brackets etc... Again, this is only MY personal preference.
There are many "Link" type solutions that tie the frame to the oil pan / trans bolts via a Bracket & link. Concerns of blocking air to the oil pan, loss of clearance under the bike, and of stress delivered to the small oil pan bolts have been discussed a lot, but these concerns have never been recorded as real issues anyplace I've seen. So I'll finish by saying that the Bagger Bracket IS one of the better systems out there from a functional point of view. And as you said FLTRCVO, a properly designed rear stabilizer does deliver a great improvement in handling.

Edit: OK... So I went to their website to read the ad... And I can say that they have an enthusiastic sales writer...

Quote

"The Bagger-Brace™ is uniquely engineered and is the only product that truly does what the others claim to do."

Not true... And especially not true at $299. You do not need elaborate and expensive system to fix this problem. More to come...

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FLTRCVO · « **Reply #20 on:** September 07, 2016, 10:18:57 PM »

Quote from: TRS300 on September 07, 2016, 09:04:51 PM

Bagger Brace is a good choice. It will do the job properly. I personally do not like the thought of bolting anything to my oil pan however. I'm sure it's fine, it's just my personal preference not to. In fact, I'd prefer not to tie off to any part of the transmission or primary via brackets etc... Again, this is only MY personal preference.
There are many "Link" type solutions that tie the frame to the oil pan / trans bolts via a Bracket & link. Concerns of blocking air to the oil pan, loss of clearance under the bike, and of stress delivered to the small oil pan bolts have been discussed a lot, but these concerns have never been recorded as real issues anyplace I've seen. So I'll finish by saying that the Bagger Bracket IS one of the better systems out there from a functional point of view. And as you said FLTRCVO, a properly designed rear stabilizer does deliver a great improvement in handling.

Edit: OK... So I went to their website to read the ad... And I can say that they have an enthusiastic sales writer... Not true... And especially not true at $299. You do not need elaborate and expensive system to fix this problem. More to come...

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Again a 2001 Road Glide a long long time ago, at the time it was one of the better options out there dealing with the same issue of wobble and didn't interfere with maintenance. Not telling anyone to buy one just stating a fact and proving having an additional point of stabilization does improve the bikes handling. By the way that is the same advertising on the site when I purchased the Bagger Brace. I will tell you there were 3 fixes out there back in 2002 (14 years ago) and chose this one due to price, design and simplicity to install and later it's flawless performance verified I made the correct decision. I paid $159. in 2002, however, if I was faced with the same issue today I would pay $399. knowing what I know now. Again, this is an issue decades old.

Grizz · « **Reply #21 on:** September 12, 2016, 08:23:25 PM »

I have a 15 CVO Streetglide I'd love to make handle better. Very interested in your ideas.

TRS300 · « **Reply #22 on:** September 13, 2016, 08:29:10 AM »

Quote from: Grizz on September 12, 2016, 08:23:25 PM

I have a 15 CVO Streetglide I'd love to make handle better. Very interested in your ideas.

I will Grizz. I'm tweaking my design again... Good Lord. BTW: My 2015 needed a lot more than a stabilizer. First thing is replace those rear shocks and get the bike leveled off. Those short rear shocks screw up everything. I put my old 2002 rear shocks on as a temporary fix (and they are crap). But still a big improvement over the 2015 11 inch rear shocks.

Skwatch · « **Reply #23 on:** September 16, 2016, 06:08:44 PM »

TRS300,

Are you familiar with the Alloy Art stabilizer?
http://www.alloyart.com/bagger/touring-frame-stabilizer-09-to-present

It has been recommended to me and have found on eBay for $125.
I'd like to hear your thoughts on their product.

TIA

TRS300 · « **Reply #24 on:** September 17, 2016, 03:57:36 PM »

Quote from: Skwatch on September 16, 2016, 06:08:44 PM

TRS300,

Are you familiar with the Alloy Art stabilizer?
http://www.alloyart.com/bagger/touring-frame-stabilizer-09-to-present

It has been recommended to me and have found on eBay for $125.
I'd like to hear your thoughts on their product.

TIA

The "Alloy Art" looks like a good solution for the rear of the PTU. The newer bikes need a front stabilizer too however. This product looks like it would complete the fix... http://www.baggerjoe.com/custom-cycle-black-motorcycle-stabilizer-09-16-harley-touring-bagger-flhx-09330121

BTW: I have no affiliation with baggerjoe.com, I just copied the link based on their design (which looks good).

Best Regards, Tim

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Skwatch · « **Reply #25 on:** September 18, 2016, 10:11:37 AM »

Quote from: TRS300 on September 17, 2016, 03:57:36 PM

The "Alloy Art" looks like a good solution for the rear of the PTU. The newer bikes need a front stabilizer too however. This product looks like it would complete the fix... http://www.baggerjoe.com/custom-cycle-black-motorcycle-stabilizer-09-16-harley-touring-bagger-flhx-09330121

BTW: I have no affiliation with baggerjoe.com, I just copied the link based on their design (which looks good).

Best Regards, Tim

---

Thanks Tim

TRS300 · « **Reply #26 on:** September 29, 2016, 11:08:20 AM »

Update: I have the designs completed for years 2001-2016. I've also just installed a new lower front stabilizer on my 2015 Street Glide. It is simple and looks pretty good actually. That means I have all the devices covered. The new Milwaukie 8 bikes (2017+) will need a different stabilizer for the lower front because they changed the way the front of the engine is held to the front mounts. But the rear stabilizer I have now will continue to work on the MW8 bikes.

I got to get these things manufactured now. That takes time. And with my work schedule it's double slow. When I have finished parts I'll be sure to post pics of the devices. BTW: My brother came to visit last weekend and we took the 2002 RG and 2015 SG out for a day ride. Lot's of twisty mountain roads. My brother commented on how well both the bikes handled. He said it was nothing like the 2006 Ultra he rode a few weeks ago (a friends bike). So that is encouraging feedback... Cheers everyone.

Tim

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FLTRCVO · « **Reply #27 on:** September 29, 2016, 12:54:19 PM »

Quote from: TRS300 on September 29, 2016, 11:08:20 AM

Update: I have the designs completed for years 2001-2016. I've also just installed a new lower front stabilizer on my 2015 Street Glide. It is simple and looks pretty good actually. That means I have all the devices covered. The new Milwaukie 8 bikes (2017+) will need a different stabilizer for the lower front because they changed the way the front of the engine is held to the front mounts. But the rear stabilizer I have now will continue to work on the MW8 bikes.

I got to get these things manufactured now. That takes time. And with my work schedule it's double slow. When I have finished parts I'll be sure to post pics of the devices. BTW: My brother came to visit last weekend and we took the 2002 RG and 2015 SG out for a day ride. Lot's of twisty mountain roads. My brother commented on how well both the bikes handled. He said it was nothing like the 2006 Ultra he rode a few weeks ago (a friends bike). So that is encouraging feedback... Cheers everyone.

Tim

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Great work and effort. Thank you for the update.

Grizz · « **Reply #28 on:** October 15, 2016, 06:21:36 PM »

Today I was able to ride on a closed road (sheriff's deputies closed a section of road off for a "event") I was able to legally run triple digits on the road wit no othe traffic. I found that my 15 cvo SG has a horrible wobble over 100. Almost feels like one side of the suspension is over damped and one side has no damping. It just wobbles along feeling like crap between 98 and 110 all on a straight flat road. What are your thoughts?
I'll start checking things out over the next few weeks.

TRS300 · « **Reply #29 on:** October 15, 2016, 11:17:54 PM »

Quote from: Grizz on October 15, 2016, 06:21:36 PM

...I found that my 15 cvo SG has a horrible wobble over 100. Almost feels like one side of the suspension is over damped and one side has no damping...

Hi Grizz. I have a few thoughts but it's clearly just my opinion. 1.) The 2015 SG has terrible rear shocks. They are to short causing the bike to not sit properly (way to low in the rear). The adjuster on the one side actually puts uneven spring pressure between each side of the swing-arm. Dump the rear shocks and raise the rear. Put at least 13 inch shocks in the rear. Maybe even 13.5 inch. 2.) At these speeds you should consider sliding the front fork tubes up the tree ~ 1/2 inch. It will help to level the bike even more. 3.) Stiffen you front shocks by adding a heavier weight oil to the shocks. or better yet, upgrade with cartridge type dampers. 4.) Make sure your tires are in good condition. You cannot have any flat centered or worn tires. I personally love the new Dunlop American Elites. They track great when they are well rounded and fresh. 5.) Add stabilizers to the front and rear of the Power Train Unit to stop any lateral movements of the PTU. 6.) Be careful, that's pretty fast riding. These bikes in general (especially stock) are really not well suited for those speeds... They are just not set-up for it IMO. Good luck. Tim

EDIT: Oh... One last thing.. Maybe consider adding a Klock Werks windshield... I've heard they produce some downward force on the frontend at higher speeds and this might add some stability under these conditions. Having a "light" feeling frontend at high speeds will amplify the tendency to "wander". (that is why you need to raise the rear and lower the nose) For the same reason.

Grizz · « **Reply #30 on:** October 16, 2016, 02:12:08 PM »

Thanks TRS,
You've given me a place to start. I'll change one thing at a time and see what happens. It's so bad I'm thinking of selling a kidney or lung and taking it to BBC or Krous lol.
As I accelerate on this bike I'm feeling a side to side imbalance, it seems to come from the front. A oscillation that causes the front end to wobble violently as it gets faster. It is much worse under acceleration. The first time I felt it I thought it was the road I was on. I later felt it on other roads. The wheel was supposedly checked for balance at the dealer, the tire is good, the fall away was suppose to be ok also.
I don't trust the dealers but lack the equipment to do everything myself (working on that now). The indie shops here all shut down so their guys have scattered to dealerships or shops in other areas.

ok I added the KW windshield from my older SG, checked the air pressure again (it was low). I also maxed the preload on the rear shock to ride a little higher. Went on a 300 mile test run. Never got over 85 but it seemed to be very stable now. I suspect the tire pressure was the issue. I'll stay on the pressure more now. Trip to Arkansas was a blast. No wobbles and the bike feels really good now. Thanks again for your help.

bandit · « **Reply #31 on:** October 20, 2016, 07:12:07 AM »

Very interesting, great work

Put monotubes in the front and oehlins
at the back of my 2009 RoadGlide. But
I think still some space to improve.

Will keep on tracking this thread.

TRS300 · « **Reply #32 on:** November 16, 2016, 03:31:49 PM »

Hello All,

Just a quick update... The samples of the stabilizers are within days of being fit and quality tested. It's amazing on how much effort it takes to get this stuff done. Anyway, I'm very pleased with the photos I've seen of the fabricated parts... It's a good project; anything that improves the safety aspect of our rides is worth working on. I DO hope to have something to show you soon. I just wanted to give an update on progress...

Best Regards,

Tim

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FLTRCVO · « **Reply #33 on:** November 16, 2016, 03:49:22 PM »

Quote from: TRS300 on November 16, 2016, 03:31:49 PM

Hello All,

Just a quick update... The samples of the stabilizers are within days of being fit and quality tested. It's amazing on how much effort it takes to get this stuff done. Anyway, I'm very pleased with the photos I've seen of the fabricated parts... It's a good project; anything that improves the safety aspect of our rides is worth working on. I DO hope to have something to show you soon. I just wanted to give an update on progress...

Best Regards,

Tim
-

Thanks for the update, I am eager to see the finished product; I had a stabilizing product on my 2001 Road Glide and the ride was improved greatly.

MadCVORG · « **Reply #34 on:** November 26, 2016, 09:36:37 PM »

Bandit,
I noticed you spell 'Oehlins' the European way........NICE!

vr/ Bob Ohlin

2bagger · « **Reply #35 on:** December 04, 2016, 01:14:55 PM »

TRS, thank you for the excellent write up. I just ordered a set of Works 13" shocks to raise the rear and I'm looking forward to your solution to keep the bike aligned!

TRS300 · « **Reply #36 on:** December 05, 2016, 11:17:26 AM »

Quote from: 2bagger on December 04, 2016, 01:14:55 PM

TRS, thank you for the excellent write up. I just ordered a set of Works 13" shocks to raise the rear and I'm looking forward to your solution to keep the bike aligned!

Thanks 2Bagger. I think you will sense a big improvement by raising up the rear. I did that and lowered the front down ~ 1/2 <> 3/4 inch by sliding the forks up the front tree clamps. The bike is level now and rides much nicer. The steering is much lighter too. I rode a Road Glide for years so it took some getting used to the weight on the steering of the street glide (especially with the Boom Audio + amp + speakers)

BTW: I leveled the Street glide to the point I even had to shim the headlight to get it to point forward. And for those that have running lights, I did the "turn the running lights upside down" trick. WOW! Huge improvement in peripheral light especially while leaning in a turn. I highly recommend this modification.

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EDIT: 2Bagger, just noticed in your signature that you have the white amethyst 2016... THAT is a beautiful machine. Congratulations.. Put a photo if that bad boy in your avatar. Cheers.

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TRS300 · « **Reply #37 on:** December 05, 2016, 11:29:46 AM »

Progress Update:

The front and rear stabilizer samples have been received and tested. I think they look great and more importantly they work well too... This month I'll get the first batch if units produced and I've submitted to get an LLC set-up to be able to offer the units for sale. I'm not going to post photos till I have everything ready to go.

I expect to be ready to post photos and take orders from those interested ~ Jan-7th. That way folks have time to install be ready for a safer 2017 riding season.

BTW: I head back overseas to work tomorrow and will be there till Jan-5th. Early Merry Christmas and best wishes for the coming new year to all of you.

Best Regards,

Tim

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2bagger · « **Reply #38 on:** December 05, 2016, 11:50:10 AM »

Tim, thank you for the additional info! Count me in on your new product! Be safe in your travels and Merry Christmas! Mark

Roadblock · « **Reply #39 on:** December 05, 2016, 10:53:44 PM »

looking forward to this. went from valkyries to harleys a few years ago and would love a more stable platform

Lprez · « **Reply #40 on:** December 10, 2016, 08:49:35 AM »

Following thread. Very interested in buying the stabilizers. Would like to understand if installation of the stabilizers has a positive effect on tire cupping.

FLTRCVO · « **Reply #41 on:** December 10, 2016, 09:06:01 AM »

Quote from: Lprez on December 10, 2016, 08:49:35 AM

Following thread. Very interested in buying the stabilizers. Would like to understand if installation of the stabilizers has a positive effect on tire cupping.

I had the Biker Brace on my 2001 Road Glide and I felt it improved the handling of the motorcycle quite a bit (night and day); however, I didn't have any issues with tire cupping prior to the install of the stabilizer.

Grizzly · « **Reply #42 on:** December 10, 2016, 09:09:15 AM »

Looking forward to seeing the finished product.

coloradotom · « **Reply #43 on:** December 10, 2016, 10:03:41 AM »

For what it's worth, I've had my '13 RG at sustained triple digits (for about 50 miles) and it was so smooth that it actually felt odd. This was a north-sourth road and zero wind. Now, same bike with no changes on an east-west road with slight a wind an even approaching those speeds I got a slight wobble in the front end. (Adding AK20 cartridges this winter.)

I also rode my buddies SG and that thing is a wobble machine, especially during high speed cornering, so I wonder how much the different fairing mounts are playing into the wobble factor.

TRS300 · « **Reply #44 on:** December 11, 2016, 05:21:18 AM »

Quote from: coloradotom on December 10, 2016, 10:03:41 AM

For what it's worth, I've had my '13 RG at sustained triple digits (for about 50 miles) and it was so smooth that it actually felt odd. This was a north-sourth road and zero wind. Now, same bike with no changes on an east-west road with slight a wind an even approaching those speeds I got a slight wobble in the front end. (Adding AK20 cartridges this winter.)

I also rode my buddies SG and that thing is a wobble machine, especially during high speed cornering, so I wonder how much the different fairing mounts are playing into the wobble factor.

I have a 2002 Road Glide and I can tell you the frame mounted faring has big advantages over the bat wing. The weight of the faring + all the forces of the wind are delivered to the frame instead of the stearing tree. My 2002 still rides much better than my 2015 S.G. The 2002 is rock solid. But that said, it was not always that way. I think the addition of a rear stabilizer on the older bikes is a Huge improvent whereas the addition of both stabalizers to the newer bikes is still a positive improvement, but maybe to a lesser degree. OR it's less noticable because the newer bikes feel a bit better to begin with. Either way, the rubber mounted design allows flexing between the PTU and the frame, and flexing allows misallignment which is not a good thing. I know the new bikes flex because I could see the stresses on the stabalizer parts during development. It changed the design a few times to get the materials straight. Besides what I could see, I can also feel an improvement. But like I said on previous posts, my 2015 SG needed a number of changes to get the overall improvement I feel now. The stabalizers absolutioly play a key role. But it's not the silver bullet that fixed it all. In fact, the 2015 still needs some more work. I need better quality shocks both front and rear.

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fastfreddy · « **Reply #45 on:** December 13, 2016, 05:45:24 PM »

interested in your solution, need to ask is yours different than what is already available from other vendors, and is this for the BAT WING only. thnx FF

TRS300 · « **Reply #46 on:** December 13, 2016, 08:04:06 PM »

Quote from: fastfreddy on December 13, 2016, 05:45:24 PM

interested in your solution, need to ask is yours different than what is already available from other vendors, and is this for the BAT WING only. thnx FF

1.) Rear stabilizer (2001-2017): Is quite different than what is currently available. Different enough that I've submitted for a patent on this design. I cannot say more than that right now.
2.) Front stabalizer (2009-2016): Very few options for a front lower stabalizer for the 2009+ touring models. The design of this stabilizer is simple to install and works very well using a standard "added link" method.

They will work on touring (and i'm pretty sure FXR models) in the years listed above.

Hope this helps.

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fastfreddy · « **Reply #47 on:** December 13, 2016, 08:41:58 PM »

thnx FF will stay in touch with this thread

2bagger · « **Reply #48 on:** January 12, 2017, 04:43:42 PM »

Tim, hate to bug you, but any updates? Thanks, Mark

TRS300 · « **Reply #49 on:** January 13, 2017, 02:34:46 AM »

Quote from: 2bagger on January 12, 2017, 04:43:42 PM

Tim, hate to bug you, but any updates? Thanks, Mark

Not bugging me at all... Thanks for asking actually. The front and rear stabilizers have been produced and are being shipped. I expect to have the materials in my hands in the next week. I have a few details to take care of between now and then and I will then post pictures and information. So I expect I'm about about a week away.

On a personal note, this effort has been more than I expected. But that said, I'm no quitter. And I believe these devices are a positive enhancement to our motorcycles. Sorry if I do not sound overly enthusiastic. I'm a bit worn down trying to get this going.

Regards, Tim

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Lprez · « **Reply #50 on:** January 13, 2017, 12:47:23 PM »

Looking forward to your announcement. Pictures, pricing, and ordering information will be much appreciated. Hope the journey is rewarded with lots of sales.

Lprez

TRS300 · « **Reply #51 on:** January 21, 2017, 03:18:58 AM »

Hello Everyone...

I finally have something to show.

Please refer to the correct thread location shown below...

https://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=110817.0

Best Regards,

Tim

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FLTRI · « **Reply #52 on:** January 26, 2017, 03:17:49 PM »

Tim,
What a great write up and explanation for the dreaded wobble.
There is that niggling question needing answered but no one seems to able to do so.
Question: Why do some bikes wobble and some do not? Same design and parts, right?
I had a 1994 Ultra that wiggled and wobbled from day 1.
I tore the bike down when it had 48k miles and rebuilt the entire chassis with new parts, then re-alignment.
The bike had exactly the same wiggle and wobble.
That said, I own a 98 RG which has never even hinted at wiggling or wobbling...even when I try to unsettle the chassis in a sweeper at over 90 mph. One finger on the bar to hold the corner and rock solid. That bike now has over 95k miles on it and never once showed any ill-handling behavior.
I owned a 2003 RG that wiggled and wobbled from day one, not as bad as the '94 Ultra, but definitely did not generate confidence in the bike's stability.
My new 2017 RG is as solid as my '98 RG without a hint of the infamous wiggles/weaves/wobbles.
I have a theory but have never been in a position to prove or disprove it.
Bob

TRS300 · « **Reply #53 on:** January 26, 2017, 05:48:06 PM »

Quote from: FLTRI on January 26, 2017, 03:17:49 PM

Tim,
What a great write up and explanation for the dreaded wobble.
There is that niggling question needing answered but no one seems to able to do so.
Question: Why do some bikes wobble and some do not? Same design and parts, right?
I had a 1994 Ultra that wiggled and wobbled from day 1.
I tore the bike down when it had 48k miles and rebuilt the entire chassis with new parts, then re-alignment.
The bike had exactly the same wiggle and wobble.
That said, I own a 98 RG which has never even hinted at wiggling or wobbling...even when I try to unsettle the chassis in a sweeper at over 90 mph. One finger on the bar to hold the corner and rock solid. That bike now has over 95k miles on it and never once showed any ill-handling behavior.
I owned a 2003 RG that wiggled and wobbled from day one, not as bad as the '94 Ultra, but definitely did not generate confidence in the bike's stability.
My new 2017 RG is as solid as my '98 RG without a hint of the infamous wiggles/weaves/wobbles.
I have a theory but have never been in a position to prove or disprove it.
Bob

You have my interest... What is your theory?

To respond to your post, I do not have answers to your observations about why some bikes are worse than others.

I do know that from a mechanical and physics point of view, these mounts flex. Instability does not need to be the worst case "wobble". Instability can simply affect the ride quality overall... I know that my 2002 is night and day difference with the rear stabilizer added. My 2015 needed many changes to get it to ride better than it did. And it still does not ride nearly as well as my stabilized 2002 does.

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Author Topic: Why Your Harley Wobbles... (Sharing what I've learned) (Read 11822 times)