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[TRS300]

TRS,
Great illustrations in the paper--really helped with visualization and understanding.  Question:  Are you developing a solution for the 2009+ bikes that you can market when finished?

First off, thank you about the paper. It did take a bit of time to put together. I have and do sell things I make for myself (mostly with my Chrysler 300C).  But I'm getting more into my working on my Harley again since I picked up the CVO.  I like to ride and to fix things like this.  I have thought to make the stabilizer I have available to others. I like it better then one's on the market today.  But before I go there I'd need to talk to Moderator about what I need to do to sell anything on this site.  I do not want to violate any rules. So the answer is "Yes I've thought about it".

The stabilizer I have now fixes the rear mounts on everything from 2001-Persent bikes. And it alone is a positive change especially on the Pre&2008 design. The 2009-Present bikes need a front stabilizer to really complete it, and I'm working on that next. That's why I said it was easier to fix the older bikes (it only has a problem in the rear). I suppose at some point I'll show what I have and see if there is enough interest to make what I've created available to others. It's simple to install, Looks good, works well, and it would not be expensive.  I can say that much.

If you Google "TRS300" + "VTCM" you'll find hits on similar type work I've done (but related to my car).  The development for my Harleys are sort of the same thing...  I sell to share my work with other enthusiasts and maybe cover the development costs.  My real job (the one that earns money) is in the oil business, not selling MC stuff.

The article I wrote really does give you enough information to look at any product and conclude if it will work properly to stabilize your MC.  That was what I was trying to share... And I do hope it helps others.  There are A LOT of products being sold under the banner of adding stability; but if they do not do something to arrest the lateral movements of the PTU with-in the frame they will not work. Also, if they do anything to "Stiffen" the mount you'll not like the result either.  The bike might feel great when it's rolling but at a stop light it's going shake badly. The mounts need to move freely so the engine can rock.  Read the paper I posted and keep the design rules in mind when evaluating a product.

Probably more than what you asked for but that's the story.

PS:  The ideas I have for my CVO are piled up in my brain lol... As odd as it sounds, one of the things I really like about my Harleys are the slight imperfections.  It gives me a chance to make it unique & personal.  I have a number of things I'm excited to be working on with this new toy.  I started another thread on some CAN bus mods I'm hoping to do too.  Then there is twin cooling... etc...   


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[08glide]

I'm interested in both, as I have 08sg &12cvo ultra. so keep us posted.   

[GregKhougaz]

...    But before I go there I'd need to talk to Moderator about what I need to do to sell anything on this site.  I do not want to violate any rules. So the answer is "Yes I've thought about it".
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TRS300,   Thanks for being mindful of the rules.  If you are considering selling a product here, this would be a good place to check:  Rules of posting to www.CVOHARLEY.com

[FLTRCVO]

Hello everyone,  Just about every site I visit, and during many conversations with fellow Harley enthusiasts, I'm pretty convinced that there is a lot of confusion on the subject of why our motorcycles are not as stable as we might expect them to be. I've been researching this for years and done a fair amount of work related to this subject on my own bikes. Making an improvement in the stability of both of my Harleys is one of the most rewarding things I've done to my bikes.  So in the spirit of sharing I'm posting a paper on the subject.  I hope it helps you understand the issues better and that you be more prepared if you decide to make an improvement on your own ride. I've never really found a laymen's paper on this subject, so I decided to write one. After all, it is a safety issue too...  Best Regards.  Tim

I had the Bagger Brace on my 2001 Road Glide great improvement on the handling

[TRS300]

I had the Bagger Brace on my 2001 Road Glide great improvement on the handling

Bagger Brace is a good choice.  It will do the job properly.  I personally do not like the thought of bolting anything to my oil pan however.  I'm sure it's fine, it's just my personal preference not to.  In fact, I'd prefer not to tie off to any part of the transmission or primary via brackets etc...  Again, this is only MY personal preference. 
There are many "Link" type solutions that tie the frame to the oil pan / trans bolts via a Bracket & link.  Concerns of blocking air to the oil pan, loss of clearance under the bike, and of stress delivered to the small oil pan bolts have been discussed a lot, but these concerns have never been recorded as real issues anyplace I've seen.  So I'll finish by saying that the Bagger Bracket IS one of the better systems out there from a functional point of view.  And as you said FLTRCVO, a properly designed rear stabilizer does deliver a great improvement in handling.

Edit: OK...  So I went to their website to read the ad...  And I can say that they have an enthusiastic sales writer... 

"The Bagger-Brace™ is uniquely engineered and is the only product that truly does what the others claim to do."

  Not true...  And especially not true at $299.  You do not need elaborate and expensive system to fix this problem. More to come...

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[FLTRCVO]

Bagger Brace is a good choice.  It will do the job properly.  I personally do not like the thought of bolting anything to my oil pan however.  I'm sure it's fine, it's just my personal preference not to.  In fact, I'd prefer not to tie off to any part of the transmission or primary via brackets etc...  Again, this is only MY personal preference. 
There are many "Link" type solutions that tie the frame to the oil pan / trans bolts via a Bracket & link.  Concerns of blocking air to the oil pan, loss of clearance under the bike, and of stress delivered to the small oil pan bolts have been discussed a lot, but these concerns have never been recorded as real issues anyplace I've seen.  So I'll finish by saying that the Bagger Bracket IS one of the better systems out there from a functional point of view.  And as you said FLTRCVO, a properly designed rear stabilizer does deliver a great improvement in handling.

Edit: OK...  So I went to their website to read the ad...  And I can say that they have an enthusiastic sales writer...    Not true...  And especially not true at $299.  You do not need elaborate and expensive system to fix this problem. More to come...

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Again a 2001 Road Glide a long long time ago, at the time it was one of the better options out there dealing with the same issue of wobble and didn't interfere with maintenance. Not telling anyone to buy one just stating a fact and proving having an additional point of stabilization does improve the bikes handling. By the way that is the same advertising on the site when I purchased the Bagger Brace. I will tell you there were 3 fixes out there back in 2002 (14 years ago) and chose this one due to price, design and simplicity to install and later it's flawless performance verified I made the correct decision. I paid $159. in 2002, however, if I was faced with the same issue today I would pay $399. knowing what I know now. Again, this is an issue decades old.   

[Grizz]

I have a 15 CVO Streetglide I'd love to make handle better. Very interested in your ideas.

[TRS300]

I have a 15 CVO Streetglide I'd love to make handle better. Very interested in your ideas.

 

I will Grizz.  I'm tweaking my design again...  Good Lord.  BTW:  My 2015 needed a lot more than a stabilizer.  First thing is replace those rear shocks and get the bike leveled off.  Those short rear shocks screw up everything.  I put my old 2002 rear shocks on as a temporary fix (and they are crap).  But still a big improvement over the 2015 11 inch rear shocks.

[Skwatch]

TRS300,

Are you familiar with the Alloy Art stabilizer?
http://www.alloyart.com/bagger/touring-frame-stabilizer-09-to-present

It has been recommended to me and have found on eBay for $125.
I'd like to hear your thoughts on their product.

TIA

[TRS300]

TRS300,

Are you familiar with the Alloy Art stabilizer?
http://www.alloyart.com/bagger/touring-frame-stabilizer-09-to-present

It has been recommended to me and have found on eBay for $125.
I'd like to hear your thoughts on their product.

TIA

The "Alloy Art" looks like a good solution for the rear of the PTU. The newer bikes need a front stabilizer too however.  This product looks like it would complete the fix...   http://www.baggerjoe.com/custom-cycle-black-motorcycle-stabilizer-09-16-harley-touring-bagger-flhx-09330121

BTW: I have no affiliation with baggerjoe.com,  I just copied the link based on their design (which looks good).

Best Regards,  Tim

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[Skwatch]

The "Alloy Art" looks like a good solution for the rear of the PTU. The newer bikes need a front stabilizer too however.  This product looks like it would complete the fix...   http://www.baggerjoe.com/custom-cycle-black-motorcycle-stabilizer-09-16-harley-touring-bagger-flhx-09330121

BTW: I have no affiliation with baggerjoe.com,  I just copied the link based on their design (which looks good).

Best Regards,  Tim

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Thanks Tim

[TRS300]

Update:  I have the designs completed for years 2001-2016.  I've also just installed a new lower front stabilizer on my 2015 Street Glide.  It is simple and looks pretty good actually.  That means I have all the devices covered. The new Milwaukie 8 bikes (2017+) will need a different stabilizer for the lower front because they changed the way the front of the engine is held to the front mounts. But the rear stabilizer I have now will continue to work on the MW8 bikes.

I got to get these things manufactured now. That takes time. And with my work schedule it's double slow.  When I have finished parts I'll be sure to post pics of the devices.  BTW:  My brother came to visit last weekend and we took the 2002 RG and 2015 SG out for a day ride.  Lot's of twisty mountain roads.  My brother commented on how well both the bikes handled.  He said it was nothing like the 2006 Ultra he rode a few weeks ago (a friends bike).  So that is encouraging feedback...  Cheers everyone.

Tim

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[FLTRCVO]

Update:  I have the designs completed for years 2001-2016.  I've also just installed a new lower front stabilizer on my 2015 Street Glide.  It is simple and looks pretty good actually.  That means I have all the devices covered. The new Milwaukie 8 bikes (2017+) will need a different stabilizer for the lower front because they changed the way the front of the engine is held to the front mounts. But the rear stabilizer I have now will continue to work on the MW8 bikes.

I got to get these things manufactured now. That takes time. And with my work schedule it's double slow.  When I have finished parts I'll be sure to post pics of the devices.  BTW:  My brother came to visit last weekend and we took the 2002 RG and 2015 SG out for a day ride.  Lot's of twisty mountain roads.  My brother commented on how well both the bikes handled.  He said it was nothing like the 2006 Ultra he rode a few weeks ago (a friends bike).  So that is encouraging feedback...  Cheers everyone.

Tim

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Great work and effort. Thank you for the update.

[Grizz]

Today I was able to ride on a closed road (sheriff's deputies closed a section of road off for a "event") I was able to legally run triple digits on the road wit no othe traffic. I found that my 15 cvo SG has a horrible wobble over 100.  Almost feels like one side of the suspension is over damped and one side has no damping. It just wobbles along feeling like crap between 98 and 110 all on a straight flat road. What are your thoughts?
I'll start checking things out over the next few weeks.

[TRS300]

...I found that my 15 cvo SG has a horrible wobble over 100.  Almost feels like one side of the suspension is over damped and one side has no damping...

Hi Grizz.  I have a few thoughts but it's clearly just my opinion.  1.) The 2015 SG has terrible rear shocks.  They are to short causing the bike to not sit properly (way to low in the rear). The adjuster on the one side actually puts uneven spring pressure between each side of the swing-arm.  Dump the rear shocks and raise the rear.  Put at least 13 inch shocks in the rear.  Maybe even 13.5 inch. 2.) At these speeds you should consider sliding the front fork tubes up the tree ~ 1/2 inch. It will help to level the bike even more. 3.) Stiffen you front shocks by adding a heavier weight oil to the shocks. or better yet, upgrade with cartridge type dampers.  4.) Make sure your tires are in good condition.  You cannot have any flat centered or worn tires. I personally love the new Dunlop American Elites.  They track great when they are well rounded and fresh. 5.) Add stabilizers to the front and rear of the Power Train Unit to stop any lateral movements of the PTU.  6.) Be careful, that's pretty fast riding.  These bikes in general (especially stock) are really not well suited for those speeds...  They are just not set-up for it IMO.  Good luck.  Tim

EDIT:  Oh... One last thing..  Maybe consider adding a Klock Werks windshield...  I've heard they produce some downward force on the frontend at higher speeds and this might add some stability under these conditions.  Having a "light" feeling frontend at high speeds will amplify the tendency to "wander". (that is why you need to raise the rear and lower the nose)  For the same reason.