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Author Topic: RIP Victory Motorcycles  (Read 11596 times)

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RoadTrip

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« Last Edit: January 09, 2017, 12:11:05 PM by porthole »
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Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2017, 11:51:59 AM »

Holy cow.  I would've thought Victory had a better chance of competing with Harley than Indian.  But at least there won't be any more of those ugly-ass Visions being produced.  :drink:
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Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2017, 01:43:53 PM »

So the Indian style is doing so well they dropped the Victory brand. I am not a fan of the Victory looks but there did seem to be a number of them out there and they were priced competitively.  I had not heard anything about their sales but clearly they must have dropped off with the introduction of the Indian brand. Glad I don't own a Victory. 
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Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2017, 01:47:17 PM »

Around here I  see  10 victory's  to 1 indian.     :nixweiss:    oh  well !   Really did  not like either.   :P
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Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2017, 01:55:55 PM »

Placement in the Polaris dealer showrooms was a clue. Indians placed in prime time, Victory shoved over to the back or in a remote corner. Was not impressed with Victory to begin with, except for unabashed revulsion for the bone ugly Vision.  Looks like Indian is the horse they have chosen to ride.  Heads up, Indian is a better competitor to Harley than Victory was, brand name alone helps a lot.

Not a surprise either when you look at what Polaris pushed at bike rallies.  Indian was always featured, Victory was a sideline.
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Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2017, 01:59:37 PM »

Polaris has deep pockets but I recall an article a few months ago that mentioned that the motorcycle devision wasn't making near as much as the other vehicles produced by Polaris.

There were also several recalls last year for Indians.  Time will tell......... :nixweiss:
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Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2017, 02:07:19 PM »

#1 son's PD just had a Victory delivered after a hard sell, be interesting to see how that works now.
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Victory Motorcycles closes down as Polaris focuses on Indian and Slingshot
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2017, 03:47:00 PM »

Per MSN: After 18 years of building cruisers in the USA, Victory Motorcycles is pulling into the garage and putting down its kickstand for the final time. Parent company Polaris has announced it is closing down the brand. The decision is the result of both success and failure. Despite some recent gains – sales were up 18 percent in the 2nd quarter of 2016, for instance – Victory has struggled in its head-to-head battle with the behemothic beast that is Harley Davidson, peaking in sales back in 2012 and losing money in three of the past five years.  By contrast, acquisition and development of the classic Indian Motorcycle brand by Polaris has proven to be a brilliant decision, with booming sales and expanding distribution. Also, its three-wheeled Slingshot roadster, which the company houses in its motorcycle division, has been somewhat of a sales surprise. So, business being what is, the difficult decision was made to concentrate efforts in the areas that have been bearing more and better fruit. Polaris CEO puts the move in corporate speak thusly:
"Our focus is on profitable growth, and in an environment of finite resources, this move allows us to optimize and align our resources behind both our premium, high performing Indian Motorcycle brand and our innovative Slingshot brand, enhancing our focus on accelerating the success of those brands. Ultimately this decision will propel the industry-leading product innovation that is core to our strategy while fostering long-term growth and increased shareholder value."
For fans of the brand and current owners, some sort of solace may be found in the fact that the company says that it will, for the next 10 years, continue to supply parts for the Victory lineup and honor warranties. Plus, we'd bet there will soon be some good deals to be found on current inventory.
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Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2017, 03:51:37 PM »

.
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Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2017, 04:54:43 PM »

Usually when things get shut down it's due to poor revenue, which it tied to sales. I can't recall a strong money maker closing doors. Sure, the MSN article said sales were up, but not enough to sustain itself. And with the out the door cost of a new motorcycle, that may be the driving factor. I think Victory got caught in Ness Styling, it's too personality specific and does not appeal to a wide spectrum of the motorcycle buying community. They couldn't outright copy HD as that style is too obvious. It's almost as if Victory was the Forrest Gump of motorcycles, everywhere at the right time, loved by those who knew the brand, but just a unique icon to the rest of the motorcycle world. And in the end perhaps the Ness look did not generate the appeal they hoped to drive more sales. So regardless of how well built the bikes were, not enough people bought them to keep the brand going. Indian on the other hand has an established history. It also has a look that appeals to a wider audience of the Non-HD world. Now in order to survive, Indian must become Harley-like, by that I mean it must always retain it's nostalgic and original look and styling, while updating and improving constantly. It probably shouldn't try to branch into new looks like the Vision. 

But I could be wrong.
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Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2017, 06:18:54 PM »

Around here I  see  10 victory's  to 1 indian.     :nixweiss:    oh  well !   Really did  not like either.   :P

Ohio also, IMO
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Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2017, 06:24:31 PM »

This could hurt some NHRA Pro-Stock bike teams.  :o
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Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2017, 08:04:27 PM »

My reading of the tea leaves is Polaris was faced with a major capital investment decision. Both the Victory and Indian Motorcycle brands were produced in the same factory and expansion was required to meet a growing Indian Motorcycle demand, not to mention the need to expand/refresh the Victory line. With Victory's shrinking penetration in the Gold Wing, BMW, and Harley-Davidson segment, it was a difficult, but very logical decision to move all their bets to the Indian Motorcycle brand. Their challenge from this point forward is to expand  the Indian product line to explode the rider base beyond the 50+ rider niche in order to feed the "growth" machine Wall Street demands. This is high stakes poker and the next one who blinks loses.
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Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2017, 09:25:51 PM »

Victory recently cut Matt Smith back to one Pro Stock bike but had added a new team with two bikes, one of which Angelle was to ride. Wonder what will happen to that operation. Saw a photo of a shop with a couple of lifts and bikes that was under construction. Not an Angelle fan but I do think nothing about this announcement can be good for either her new team or Matt's who has been fighting the Gunner deal for two seasons.
Maybe Indian name will take over, but then Indian has been dead since 1952 and just took over someone else's brand by renaming it so this would be nothing new for them.
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Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2017, 10:27:47 PM »

And then there were two...

I hope two things happen out of this; first, that HD doesn't get the big head and tries harder in the future.  And second, that Indian doesn't get the big head and tries harder as well.  And I'm not joking, either.

Deep down, I am rooting for both of them, and I'm secretly hoping that Indian will really kick it up several notches.  In my mind, this should make Harley try harder, and that's exactly what I want them to do.  Build a better bike and build the quality into it again, in a new and more aggressive way.
And stop raising the already ridiculous prices.  Surely even they can see there has to be a limit to CVO pricing somewhere!
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Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2017, 10:51:07 PM »

Well, what's going to happen to the Brammo electrics.  I had high hopes for the brand.
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Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2017, 11:02:10 PM »

This will put a major stress on many of the Victory/Indian dealers as the Scout currently the only model selling well in either brand. Service will still have the Victory units in operation to work on but by eliminating the brand and Indian currently having a very small market we will probably see some more closures with smaller dealers. The Slingshots have been getting some traction (no pun intended) so I assume we will start seeing multiple variations of it that should help the dealers that can "hang on". Also have to believe Indian will try and capitalize on the scout popularity as well as come up with a "high line" competitor for the CVO's.
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Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2017, 11:10:38 PM »

After a few beers thinking about this one for a while, my guess is Indian expands their lineup.  More models, more variations.  They have the production capacity to do so.  Indian is the nameplate they are betting on.  Maybe go head to head with HD more than now or look at the other cruisers in the market & take an Indian model in a different direction.  They have a lot "riding" on the Indian name now and they have advertised it extensively in some areas to build their brand.
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Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2017, 11:28:17 PM »

Well resale values just sank. I too am disappointed, it seems that Polaris, DOES not learn when a bike doesn't sell, what are the reasons.
1. Ugly hideous paint schemes
2.Terrible exhaust sounds
3. No parts
4. Dealer support spotty at best.
5. AND ridiculous MSRPs

Something else is going on here, glad I did not buy any PII stock lately as it is done quite a bit from a year ago. Management is hiding something .

I own a 2011 Jackpot along with multiple Harley's, glad I got it, now I will be looking for spare parts as you know you won't find them in a year period. I might still be interested in a Magnum, but 10k IS now on the highside IMHO.

Too Bad
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Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2017, 11:38:36 PM »

I am not so sure Indian will survive either, it's resale is poor and they have just bit all the Victory customers. Polaris IMHO is now a take over target, they have been under performing due to many issues QC, Engineering, design acceptance and customer service.
They also do not realize the customer and " What" they want and henceforth due to make the same mistakes again with Indian.
Poor mgmt and small inside the box thinking caused Victory's demise,( see my above post)
Harley, has learned a lot in the last few years, the dealer experience is 10+ and their bikes are still pleasing.
I was going to suggest that Harley now copy Victory Magnum's details a little ( ok a lot) and design a bike with that beautiful rear fenders and bags on it . IMHO A new Harley Bagger looking somewhat like a Magnum would be Killer AND I would buy one in a minute!

Just picture this bike with a Harley Motor in it
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Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2017, 11:40:22 PM »

And this shot
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Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2017, 11:43:09 PM »

One more
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grayghost731

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Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #23 on: January 10, 2017, 07:56:16 AM »

And then there were two...

I hope two things happen out of this; first, that HD doesn't get the big head and tries harder in the future.  And second, that Indian doesn't get the big head and tries harder as well.  And I'm not joking, either.

Deep down, I am rooting for both of them, and I'm secretly hoping that Indian will really kick it up several notches.  In my mind, this should make Harley try harder, and that's exactly what I want them to do.  Build a better bike and build the quality into it again, in a new and more aggressive way.
And stop raising the already ridiculous prices.  Surely even they can see there has to be a limit to CVO pricing somewhere!




I agree.  You need at least two brands for rivalry    :huepfenlol2:   Like  Harley and the Davidson's series    ;)  Bring  back the  Races   :)
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Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #24 on: January 10, 2017, 08:53:07 AM »

I'm saddened by the loss of Victory.  Not that I own one, however I feel competition to Harley is needed.  I believe that Victory and Indians stronger base motor's pushed Harley to develop the M8, which has the edge on the competition now.

I think the nice paint on the Victory Magnums for the past couple years forced HD to offer 3 different flame paint schemes on the Road Glide Special, Street glide special and the King.  The sound system on the Magnum beats HD offerings.

I think Victory folding will hurt Indian.  People well worry it will happen to Indian too.  Indian is also a very good product.  The Head unit on the Chief is really nice.

We need those two companies to make Harley improve their product.  The other brands are not real big competition to HD.

Now I am pushing harder than ever for Indian to become successful. 
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Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #25 on: January 10, 2017, 09:36:41 AM »

Just when I felt IMHO that Victory was getting their styling in line they fold their hand. Perfect time to buy one at a low price if you have ever had thoughts about one.  Resale is now officially in the toilet on them and as far as Indian goes the used ones I have seen are cheap buys as well. I do like that Indian upgraded the sound system and added navigation.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2017, 10:24:37 AM by Chains »
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Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #26 on: January 10, 2017, 09:58:29 AM »

Just an opinion but I think their demise has a lot to do with the Euro 4 regulations. Their engines would have needed a major new design to meet the new European regs and they didn't want to put in a significant reinvestment.  Unlike Harley with their new M8 motors which are expected to be Euro 4 compliant.
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Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2017, 10:25:52 AM »

I have seen these for $17,000 prior to yesterday's announcement certainly cheaper than a street glide. 
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Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #28 on: January 10, 2017, 01:25:05 PM »

This sucks....Victory without a doubt was the innovator in the big twin motorcycle space over the past few years....SOHC, four valves, TPMS and their easy tap to neutral feature...are but a few that come to mind. 

If you ever rode their touring bike...you would probably agree, it was a great machine.

But it just lacked the pride of ownership and cool factor.  It feels good to pull into a Harley dealership and see 20-30 other Harley's in the parking lot with the guys and gals on the porch checking you out as you park your hog.

I would always get amped up while at sturgis about Victory and Indian, with all their hype and marketing crap.  Then when I'd get home and go to their dealership I would end up looking more at ATVs and snowmobiles....In fact at one dealership I ended up buying a chain saw!   Either they didn't have much inventory or they had no one who had any passionate knowledge.

Well now they only have Indian and I hope they force their dealers to only one brand and get all the other Polaris crap off the show room floor. 

I do feel sorry for all the current Victory owner.....maybe we should reach out to them for a patch over!!

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Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #29 on: January 10, 2017, 02:54:07 PM »

Bummer. Did not want one but I did like them.
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Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #30 on: January 10, 2017, 03:10:14 PM »

I know exactly how the Victory owners feel. I felt the the same way when HD shuttered Buell. I eventually sold the Buell. Nice bike. I had hopes Victory was going to become the High-performance brand. It seems big, heavy, and slow are what the U.S. manufacturers are sticking with. Marketing the same stuff over and over to a shrinking pool of buyers.
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Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #31 on: January 10, 2017, 03:40:50 PM »

My wife and I test drove a new Vision back in like '09 or '10.  She didn't want any part of it being a die-hard Harley chick, but I wanted to see what it was all about. 
My positive impressions were these:
Slow speed handling was very good, bordering on awesome. 
The center of balance at any speed felt very good, but was especially noticeable at low speeds.
Felt acceleration was very nice, with nice torque.
Feedback through the handlebars was nice, maybe better than most big bikes at that time.
The lack of vibration and the overall smoothness of the ride was nice.

But that's where the good ended.

On the negative side, this is what we felt/thought:
The bike felt and looked very plastic, to the point of feeling and looking cheap.  It made creaking noises as the plastic was torqued while riding.
The looks.  I just didn't care for the ultra clean, spaceship look.  This is a personal taste thing, as I prefer a little "heritage" feel and look to my bikes.  I'm sure some found the looks awesome, though.
The seat was comfy enough for me (considering I put maybe 10 miles on the bike), but my wife disliked the BSR position, especially for the rear-speaker armrests.  She said there was just no way to get comfortable, and I could see that.
I remember thinking that the quality of the plastic/fiberglass wasn't anywhere near up to par with Harley's stuff, and for sure the paint wasn't either.
The sound of the bike, both engine and exhaust was weird, and disappointing.  It sounded...well...kind of cheap.  I've heard Visions since then with aftermarket pipes, and it seems you can't totally get rid of that factory sound.
The stereo was not up to par with the cost of the bike.  (But then neither are the CVO touring bikes either, IMO).

I came away impressed with the handling and engine performance, but the dislikes were way too many for my tastes, but again this is my opinion.  If the other bikes in the V lineup were similar, I can understand poor sales.

Like many of you, I wanted them to do well, if for no other reason than as competition for HD, but now it looks like that torch will be passed along to Indian.  I hope they're up for the challenge.
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Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #32 on: January 10, 2017, 07:58:53 PM »

I credit Victory with pushing HD to upgrade some of the features that Victory initiated. We might still have 88" twin cam motors with 5 speed transmissions if Victory didn't push the upgraded power trains.
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Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #33 on: January 10, 2017, 08:08:01 PM »

Reading some of these comments, such as the demise of Victory will negatively impact Indian, etc., makes me think history should be the lesson here.  Harley wasn't negatively impacted by Buell's death, Chevy didn't suffer when Pontiac, Oldsmobile, Saturn, & Hummer were shuttered.  Same for Chrysler and its loss of Plymouth and Ford's cancellation of Mercury.  If anything, Indian will be stronger, being the only motorcycle line at Polaris.  I'd expect Polaris to use the former Victory factory space for more models, a CVO-like Indian, etc.

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Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #34 on: January 11, 2017, 07:41:30 AM »

Good point Mark...
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Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #35 on: January 11, 2017, 09:56:20 AM »

I'm saddened by the loss of Victory.  Not that I own one, however I feel competition to Harley is needed.  I believe that Victory and Indians stronger base motor's pushed Harley to develop the M8, which has the edge on the competition now.

I think the nice paint on the Victory Magnums for the past couple years forced HD to offer 3 different flame paint schemes on the Road Glide Special, Street glide special and the King.  The sound system on the Magnum beats HD offerings.

I think Victory folding will hurt Indian.  People well worry it will happen to Indian too.  Indian is also a very good product.  The Head unit on the Chief is really nice.

We need those two companies to make Harley improve their product.  The other brands are not real big competition to HD.

Now I am pushing harder than ever for Indian to become successful. 

I agree completely! Competition drives innovation and value. The Harley brand without Indian, Victory, etc. will result in the same models, features and paint schemes being offered for a decade or longer at a time. The only thing HD will improve is their margin by raising prices year over year. I really hate to see Victory shutting down. I think Victory was on the right track. I really like the new white Magnum X that is out for 2017, and was seriously considering one. I may still be since prices should be getting really right on them. Really just a sad situation for the motorcycle industry as a whole.
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Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #36 on: January 11, 2017, 09:55:13 PM »

I am not surprised with Victory going away.  The motorcycle market is shrinking rapidly.  HD is suffering the same as Polaris.  The baby boomers are not buying bikes anymore and the younger crowd has other choices to spend their descretionary money.  They are also more safety focused than baby boomers, so motorcycling is not high on their bucket list.
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Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #37 on: January 11, 2017, 11:36:14 PM »

I am not surprised with Victory going away.  The motorcycle market is shrinking rapidly.  HD is suffering the same as Polaris.  The baby boomers are not buying bikes anymore and the younger crowd has other choices to spend their descretionary money.  They are also more safety focused than baby boomers, so motorcycling is not high on their bucket list.

Yep. The current generation does not have an "Easy Rider" or "Wild Angels" mindset, and those type movies are very dated except to folks old enough to remember like the Boomers. "We wanna’ be free! We wanna’ be free to do what we wanna’ do. We wanna’ be free to ride. We wanna’ be free to ride our machines without being hassled by The Man!" created a generation of wannabe bikers that became real bikers. Bikes had an image of the Free Spirit of the Open Road for a lot of people.  Still lots of riders today with that mindset, more or less, but they are getting older fast.  "Ghost Rider" ain't the same thing, not even close.  Most of the guys I started riding with dreamed of jumping fences on a bike like Steve McQueen. Some of us tried it, with varied results. Tough to try to convey a feeling like that using just advertising. They don't make movies like they used to.

Victory failing is similar to the brands that failed in Mark's post above.  Polaris sees Indian as the future and was obvious they were not putting resources into the Victory line a good while ago. Doubt there will be nostalgia for the old Victorys in future years like there is for some of the old  Pontiacs though.

Will be interesting to see what Indian's future sales numbers do, if they will be more than Indian + Victory. Victory going away is an advantage to the MoCo as I see it.
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Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #38 on: January 11, 2017, 11:54:16 PM »

I have seen these for $17,000 prior to yesterday's announcement certainly cheaper than a street glide.
d

Good looking bike
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Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #39 on: January 12, 2017, 07:57:10 AM »

Somehow I don't see Indians getting red and blue lights, radios, sirens and saddlebag mounted M4's  :nixweiss:
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Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #40 on: January 12, 2017, 08:38:49 AM »

.
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Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #41 on: January 12, 2017, 08:48:29 AM »

Somehow I don't see Indians getting red and blue lights, radios, sirens and saddlebag mounted M4's  :nixweiss:

It has been more than a few years.

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Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #42 on: January 12, 2017, 09:00:22 AM »

http://m.startribune.com/lee-schafer-indian-shows-the-power-of-a-brand/410334875/

"Polaris told investors who it was going after with its Indian Motorcycle acquisition in April 2011, flashing up a simple pie chart that showed those 39 percent of heavyweight motorcycle buyers that Polaris simply called “the die hards.”

That opportunity dwarfed the “performance enthusiast” segment it was targeting with its home-brewed Victory brand, first sold in 1998. Well, those Victory customers are on their own, as Polaris said this week it will wind down its Victory brand and put all of its attention on Indian.

So Indian Motorcycles are a big success after six years in the hands of Medina-based Polaris even as Victory goes out of business — and both were designed and built by the same company. So maybe what’s turned out to be a die hard is the Indian brand itself.

There may be no better example here in the Twin Cities of why shrewd executives breathe life into a brand that has proved to be impossible to kill rather than risk launching a new one.

There was a time when marketers didn’t quite grasp how brands could have value apart from the products themselves or the companies that produced them, according to George John, marketing professor at the Carlson School of Management at the University of Minnesota.

Some of that brand value comes from nostalgia, often leading to products getting relaunched, John said. Yet it also can work to introduce an older brand in a new market segment if consumers hear it and think cutting-edge technology or some other desirable attribute.

“The third thing, which we kind of underplay, is sheer name recognition,” John said. “Name recognition has a huge impact, on not only our knowledge of it, but our willingness to buy the story they are selling.”

And it matters how the consumer learned the name too, said Dan Wallace, a Twin Cities speaker and co-author of “The Physics of Brand.” Before Polaris acquired the business it had been nearly 60 years since the Indian name had last been associated with a significant motorcycle manufacturer, yet Wallace keeps an Indian Motorcycle magnet on his refrigerator.

He has never even been on an Indian Motorcycle, but his grandfather in 1917 rode an Indian motorcycle out of a rural backwater in Michigan and parked it in front of the Ypsilanti house of a young woman who later married him. “That’s a powerful story,” Wallace said. “I didn’t learn about [Indian] through an ad.”

Indian got its iconic status through the original Indian Motorcycle Manufacturing Co., which created enduringly popular products like its Scout and Chief cycles at its home in Massachusetts. Indian at one time was a rival of the likes of Harley-Davidson, yet a series of missteps brought the company down. It last built bikes in 1953.

Right away entrepreneurs thought of making money with the Indian brand. What followed was what one writer called a nearly 60-year period of “dreamers, money-grubbers and bad-luckers that … attempted stewardship of the Indian name.”

One of the entrepreneurs selling the dream of reviving Indian was Philip Zanghi II, whom law enforcement authorities later concluded had collected more than $800,000 from investors only to sell a few Indian T-shirts. “Maybe I’m a con man,” Zanghi told the jury in his closing arguments at his 1997 trial for fraud, acting as his own attorney. “Maybe I’m a promoter. But I brought the Indian trademark back.” The jury spent less than three hours concluding he was, indeed, a con man.

cont.
 
 
 
 
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Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #43 on: January 12, 2017, 09:01:34 AM »

There was later a legitimate effort to build Indian cycles in California, and after yet another failure, in 2006 private equity investors decided to give it a try in North Carolina. That was the operation Polaris acquired, although it didn’t take long for Polaris to move assembly operations to Polaris facilities in Iowa.

The business Polaris acquired had booked about $11 million in annual revenue, and Polaris said from the beginning that it would take time to design and launch new products and only then would sales grow.

Polaris had a better chance to succeed reviving Indian than the other companies that had tried and failed because it wasn’t anything like them. They had barriers to entry Polaris could easily manage, with a big and sophisticated organization to efficiently design and build off-road vehicles and relationships with dealers who could sell them. That’s also what set Polaris apart from another Minnesota effort to relaunch an old motorcycle brand, the short-lived Excelsior-Henderson Motorcycle Manufacturing Co. of the 1990s.

What Polaris did not have in the 1990s, when it wanted to jump into the motorcycle market, was a proven motorcycle brand. That was a barrier, too, and it decided to risk creating its own. Sales of Victory came to not quite $10 million the year it launched, in 1998.

It’s not fair to call Victory a flop for Polaris, because its products generated good reviews. Yet even at the time of the Indian acquisition in 2011, then more than a dozen years into the Victory venture, Polaris CEO Scott Wine complained to investors that Polaris didn’t have nearly enough motorcycle dealer representation in the biggest metro areas. In fact he was hoping the Indian brand would help attract more and better dealers.

Now, nearly six years later, the Indian relaunch has gone so well that Harley-Davidson investors consider Indian a real threat. The surging popularity of Indian boosted sales of motorcycles and related accessories from about 7 percent of Polaris’ revenue in 2013 to 18 percent for the first three quarters of 2016.

There weren’t enough Victory cycles sold to produce a profit in three out of the last five years, according to a company spokesperson. Of about $700 million in motorcycle segment sales for 2015, only about $140 million were Victory models.

Polaris will incur costs winding down Victory, yet a spokesperson indicated there will be no job losses other than a cutback of temporary workers and some unfilled vacancies, as other staff will be reassigned to the growing Indian business. All of which suggests that while the Victory motorcycle quietly dies, the iconic American brand of Indian Motorcycle is more alive than ever."

___________________________________________________________________________________

Interesting read on why Polaris dropped Victory to concentrate on Indian.  In a way is similar to the old 80/20 rule of business.  Concentrate your strengths, minimize your weaknesses.
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Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #44 on: January 13, 2017, 02:02:50 PM »

The young kids want high tech and fast driftin import cars with all the technical gadgets in them,and jacked up powerplants. They don't care much bout Motorcycles except super fast crotch rockets.
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Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #45 on: January 13, 2017, 02:25:59 PM »

I do think most kids want the fast bikes.  I had sporty bikes when I was young (didn't have crotch rockets back then) but still loved the look and sound of the Harley.  My boys both prefer the Harley look.  One couldn't afford the Harley but still got the same look.  Do you think when these young kids grow up (when they are 30 to 40 years old near as I can tell) they may change what they want?
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Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #46 on: January 13, 2017, 04:20:18 PM »

The Victoria, BC Police Dept bought Victory bikes in the US and the local Victory shop declined to service them. The dept has been running them 200+kms up-island to an indy shop....I guess things won't change much for them.
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Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #47 on: January 13, 2017, 06:32:30 PM »

  C ya later VICTORY !!! HD has out lasted all of them, and will live to see INDIAN fall twice  :oops:
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Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #48 on: January 13, 2017, 06:39:59 PM »

  C ya later VICTORY !!! HD has out lasted all of them, and will live to see INDIAN fall twice  :oops:

HD operating in a near monopoly status for us as a market hasn't always led to great things.
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Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #49 on: January 13, 2017, 08:21:04 PM »

The young kids want high tech and fast driftin import cars with all the technical gadgets in them,and jacked up powerplants. They don't care much bout Motorcycles except super fast crotch rockets.

I would say you are right for the most part.  There are still some in their early and mid 20's that want HD's.  I know a 26 year old that races crotch rockets on the Track, and rides a 15 Road Glide special that he has built the motor a bit.  He can ride the wheels off that Road Glide, not afraid to drift it either.  He has two other friends who both ride HD' touring bikes, also under 30.
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Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #50 on: January 14, 2017, 09:16:55 AM »

HD operating in a near monopoly status for us as a market hasn't always led to great things.
  sad but true, HD has taken a few  steps in the other direction in the past couple of years, they are like me .... old and slow...but still moving  :2vrolijk_21:
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Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #51 on: January 18, 2017, 09:45:16 PM »

While I don't think Indian is going to overtake HD (anytime soon), those predicting they'll fail are not looking at the issue objectively.  Indian is adding dealers at a steady clip, adding models, I'm seeing more and more Indians on the road, they're backed by a billion dollar corporation, and they're making a good product.  If you haven't seen the eval from Cycle World on the HD vs. Indian vs. Moto Guzzi, it's a good read (link below): 

Competition will make bike manufacturers better, which benefits us.

http://www.cycleworld.com/2014/02/19/harley-davidson-softail-deluxe-vs-indian-chief-classic-vs-moto-guzzi-california-1400-custom-comparison-test
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Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #52 on: January 19, 2017, 02:53:37 PM »

This she can't be a surprise to anyone. Why would Polaris keep two brands. It was given when they acquired the Indian brand. Good strategy and good decision.
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Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #53 on: March 06, 2017, 09:18:12 PM »

F##k Victory.  I'm glad they are dead.  I hope Indian is next.
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Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #54 on: March 06, 2017, 09:42:39 PM »

I like the new Indian bikes, they look top notch. And HD NEEDS to have competition, otherwise they their quality might drop.
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Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #55 on: March 06, 2017, 10:09:51 PM »

I like the new Indian bikes, they look top notch. And HD NEEDS to have competition, otherwise they their quality might drop further
Fixed
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Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #56 on: March 06, 2017, 10:32:07 PM »

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Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #57 on: March 06, 2017, 11:39:53 PM »

  C ya later VICTORY !!! HD has out lasted all of them, and will live to see INDIAN fall twice  :oops:

uh, indian has already fallen twice.  maybe you meant a third time?
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Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #58 on: March 07, 2017, 03:31:14 AM »

F##k Victory.  I'm glad they are dead.  I hope Indian is next.

I Agree -    Some of these guys are always posting about how much they like Victory's, BMWs and Indians...    I think they are on the wrong site?   This is the Harley Davidson CVO Enthusiasts Chat Group in case you are lost?   :nixweiss:
I am not exactly sure where the "I love Polaris Products" chat groups are located because I am not interested in them.     :nixweiss:
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Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #59 on: March 07, 2017, 06:54:04 AM »

F##k Victory.  I'm glad they are dead.  I hope Indian is next.

You know what happens where there is no competition?  Harley does not improve there product.  Harley Jacks the prices even more with removing content.

The best thing is to have competition.  in the 70's american cars hand no competition and they keep getting crappier and crappier.  Then the imports gave them real competition.  Now we have some great American cars and trucks.

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Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #60 on: March 07, 2017, 02:40:01 PM »

Yeah it's a CVO site with different categories for those that are interested in other newsworthy items. If you don't like the topic just don't read it, as for me I will keep my CVO as Victory never did anything for me. Anyone that owns or works for a business realizes the importance of competition.  A monopoly has not proven to benefit the majority. I'm for anything that will have Harley on a continuous improvement path.   
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Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #61 on: March 07, 2017, 04:22:38 PM »

You know what happens where there is no competition?  Harley does not improve there product.  Harley Jacks the prices even more with removing content.

The best thing is to have competition.  in the 70's american cars hand no competition and they keep getting crappier and crappier.  Then the imports gave them real competition.  Now we have some great American cars and trucks.




For  Sure!    :2vrolijk_21:
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Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #62 on: March 07, 2017, 08:06:26 PM »

Yeah it's a CVO site with different categories for those that are interested in other newsworthy items. If you don't like the topic just don't read it, as for me I will keep my CVO as Victory never did anything for me. Anyone that owns or works for a business realizes the importance of competition.  A monopoly has not proven to benefit the majority. I'm for anything that will have Harley on a continuous improvement path.   
AGREED!! X2
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Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #63 on: March 08, 2017, 04:44:09 PM »

Switch Victory going away, jobs will go away also........ NOT GOOD.
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Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #64 on: March 08, 2017, 09:50:43 PM »

Yeah it's a CVO site with different categories for those that are interested in other newsworthy items. If you don't like the topic just don't read it, as for me I will keep my CVO as Victory never did anything for me. Anyone that owns or works for a business realizes the importance of competition.  A monopoly has not proven to benefit the majority. I'm for anything that will have Harley on a continuous improvement path.   

A monopoly??  Are you fuc#ing serious?  Have you not heard of Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki and Yamaha?  They are far more competition for Harley than Indian will ever be.  You guys think a little niche manufacturer that has probably never sold more than 10,000 bikes in a year (Victory was around for 18 years and Polaris said they never sold more than 15,000 bikes in a year) is more competition than the Japanese?  Harley went from the Shovel to the Evo to the Twin Cam and there was no such thing as either Victory or Indian to prompt them.  There will still be plenty of competition even after Indian is dead and gone, hopefully for the final time.  F**k Indian.
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Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #65 on: March 09, 2017, 07:49:08 AM »

A monopoly??  Are you fuc#ing serious?  Have you not heard of Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki and Yamaha?  They are far more competition for Harley than Indian will ever be.  You guys think a little niche manufacturer that has probably never sold more than 10,000 bikes in a year (Victory was around for 18 years and Polaris said they never sold more than 15,000 bikes in a year) is more competition than the Japanese?  Harley went from the Shovel to the Evo to the Twin Cam and there was no such thing as either Victory or Indian to prompt them.  There will still be plenty of competition even after Indian is dead and gone, hopefully for the final time.  F**k Indian.

Honda, Yamaha and Suzuki( Kawasaki and Suzuki are the same company)  Are not much of a competition.  I know very few people who cross shop Harley and one of those 3, and the ones who do cross shop are usually looking at Goldwing or FB6.  I know lots who cross shop Indian and Victory to Harley. 

So yes, even though Indian and Victory sell less bike than the three Japanese companies, they are more competition as it is a closer style and market for the bikes.  The Japanese brands much of their sales are sub 1000 cc bike, 

Yea, twin cam has been around 15 plus years with little to no improvement.  The 110's been around since 07, ten years.  They still have an extremely high lifter failure rate.

The only bikes I would consider besides Harley are the FB6, GTL1600 and several Indians and victories.  From the looks of this forum, most who cross shop are the bikes I just named.
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Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #66 on: March 09, 2017, 08:26:34 AM »

A monopoly??  Are you fuc#ing serious?  Have you not heard of Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki and Yamaha?  They are far more competition for Harley than Indian will ever be.  You guys think a little niche manufacturer that has probably never sold more than 10,000 bikes in a year (Victory was around for 18 years and Polaris said they never sold more than 15,000 bikes in a year) is more competition than the Japanese?  Harley went from the Shovel to the Evo to the Twin Cam and there was no such thing as either Victory or Indian to prompt them.  There will still be plenty of competition even after Indian is dead and gone, hopefully for the final time.  F**k Indian.

Eccool..... ;)
« Last Edit: March 09, 2017, 12:39:43 PM by Haird »
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Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #67 on: March 09, 2017, 12:26:44 PM »

I agree with Dave 100%.  The other manufacturers other than what Dave mentioned have nothing that is similar, unless you count the Kawasaki 1700 bagger.  I like the ride from the F6B and other than the amount of wind that would be hard to manage for rider & passenger it was a decent riding machine.  I like the BMW touring machines but I would need a very low seat making it very uncomfortable. I think it was obvious that Victory was not being aggressive in making changes that would make it more pleasing to the eye.  Something about Polaris that keeps designing some awful looking fenders for the Victory & Indian models but that is just my opinion, and doesn't count for much except for my next choice.     
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Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #68 on: March 09, 2017, 08:19:00 PM »

Although I ride a Harley, I like ALL motorcycles, and do NOT wish ill towards any particular bike.

One thing I try to remember is that most of us got our motorcycling start on something other than a Harley. While some may believe that those other brands are not worthy of comparison to the CVO line up, I beg to differ. In fact, in a way those other brands may be superior because they led some of us us to make our current purchase.

As for Harley being in a league of it's own, it is,.....price wise. Not everyone can afford a $40K bike right off the bat, but that doesn't mean they don't enjoy riding as much as you or I, so let them enjoy the other brands. After all they may be the ones who stop to help us when we're on the side of the road with bad lifters, compensators, valve guides, stators, clutch failure, and so on.

But I could be wrong.
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Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #69 on: March 09, 2017, 08:58:07 PM »

Although I ride a Harley, I like ALL motorcycles, and do NOT wish ill towards any particular bike.

One thing I try to remember is that most of us got our motorcycling start on something other than a Harley. While some may believe that those other brands are not worthy of comparison to the CVO line up, I beg to differ. In fact, in a way those other brands may be superior because they led some of us us to make our current purchase.

As for Harley being in a league of it's own, it is,.....price wise. Not everyone can afford a $40K bike right off the bat, but that doesn't mean they don't enjoy riding as much as you or I, so let them enjoy the other brands. After all they may be the ones who stop to help us when we're on the side of the road with bad lifters, compensators, valve guides, stators, clutch failure, and so on.

But I could be wrong.

Well Said!!
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Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #70 on: March 09, 2017, 10:52:56 PM »

I went to my dealer today who also owns the Indian dealer down the street. They were celebrating being number 1 in Scout sales in the Western region in February. When I asked how bikes (Indians) they sold last month they said 7. I said I was surprised selling 7 Scouts made them number 1 in the region and he told me "we sold 7 new Indians, not just Scouts"..
Ohh boy, long road ahead for them!
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Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #71 on: March 10, 2017, 01:46:32 AM »

I think our local Harley dealer probably didn't do much better! Power sports sales in our area have been way off the last 2 years.
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Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #72 on: March 10, 2017, 01:16:24 PM »

I agree with Ironhorse. When we were on the side of the freeway with a blown motor all the bikes rode by and one lady stopped in a car and another guy stopped with a dirt bike in the back of his pickup offered to go dump it off and come back. I thanked both for stopping but we had a tow truck coming by then.
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Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #73 on: March 14, 2017, 01:27:15 PM »

Bike sales down in our area and we have a new Indian dealer opening up next month, between two HD dealers.
Also a Royal Enfield dealer
« Last Edit: March 14, 2017, 01:29:15 PM by porthole »
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